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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Drill Speed ("John Zeller")
  re:Air lock in RIMS ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: Yeast Viability ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: Rodenbach ("Mark Tumarkin")
  adding beer to the haze ... clarification sought. ("Stephen Alexander")
  FG Estimation (Ken Schwartz)
  Final Gravity ("Houseman, David L")
  Pumps in RIMS and HERMS systems ("Mike Pensinger")
  RE:  N. CA Road Trip (Peter Torgrimson)
  Re: Munich Dunkel (Jeff Renner)
  Bernzomatic and stone- Buy Both ("Bruce Garner")
  Electric Immersion Heater ("Bruce Garner")
  All Grain System Break-In ("Steven Parfitt")
  RE: 2001 Buzz Off Homebrew Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Subject: Lambic digest / Alaxander Rodenbach / Help (Tom Riddle)
  15th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest (Mark Garthwaite)
  Stein Resources (Mike Lewandowski)
  parti-gyle brewing (TomAGardner)
  Subject: Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalten (Brunnenbraeu)


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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:25:38 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Drill Speed

Hello Rick,

You wrote "With the re-birth thread about which grain mill is best, I 
started wondering, Hmmmm??? Just how does one go about determining how many 
rpm the drill is turning while crushing grain? Is there some way to attach a 
tachometer?"

I read some of the other suggestions and gave your question some thought.  
Probably the simplest way to solve the puzzle would be to run a few pounds 
of grain through the mill at a fairly leisurely pace and time it.  The mill 
specifications probably tell you how many pounds per minute you can expect 
to mill. Figure the rate you are milling at that speed and adjust the speed 
accordingly if you have a variable speed drill. Another way would be to 
simply eyeball the speed of the mill rollers and make an educated guess at 
the rpms.  You can visualize four or five revolutions per second as being a 
fairly slow pace. This would equate to 250-300 rpm.  Most mills work best at 
300 rpm or less.  Hand cranking the mill you would be doing well at about 1 
or 2 rpm so aim for about 4 times faster than you can turn it with the hand 
crank.  Slower is generally better.  When you think you have it where it 
should be, you could do another timed crush and check the rate again.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:53:45 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re:Air lock in RIMS

 .2brewers4u

<<Here is a test.  Use water only, recirculate normally.  Take your finger a
partially clog the pick up line in the tun, until you get full suction. Keep
it
there with pump on high.  You will probably start to see air bubbles after a
few
minutes.  You are trying to simulate a "stuck" grain bed.  Most likely the
pump
is pulling so hard, air is getting into the lines.
>>

Air leaks are  likely, but under low pressure you'll also pull all gasses
out of solution and increase the amount of water vapor.  Cavitation
itself doesn't imply aeration.

fwiw,
 -S




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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 06:15:07 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Yeast Viability

George Fix writes ...

<<
This is absolutely correct. The references were also pointed out to me in
private e-mail (in a slightly more civil manner!).
>>

If you want civility George, perhaps you should drop your 4 year old grudge
against a few people who found documentable technical errors in your earlier
books.  When you begin by posting pointed insults to "theologians ...
denouncing [your book]..."  YOU begin the cycle of incivility.  No one
denounced your books, but like every other human endeavor there are errors.
I wish you would attack those technical errors with the same vigor and
tenacity you've shown when attacking we who brought these to your attention.


<<
 > Glycogen level is
 >a good thing to measure/understand but it's not viability.

This assumes there is a universally accepted notion of "viability".
In fact  there is not,[...]
>>

No, and I don't get the logic:  The temperature of my mashtun is a good
thing to measure but unrelated to the surface temperature of Mars.  This
does not "assumes there is a universally accepted notion of " the surface
temperature of Mars.

Viability literally means a cell is alive, and this has been regularly
measured by counting cell colony formation in a gel or agar medium.  There
may not be an ASBC method(or is there?) but there are well established
methods.  Kirsop wrote about this for NCYC use long ago (1950s?), and the
same basic method is reported in recent papers.  One can argue around the
margins about the relationship between colony forming units (CFUs) and
viable cells, but it is the well established method of measuring yeast
viability.

<<
>Methylene violet stain has recently been suggested  as an
 >improvement.  The advantages of this over methylene blue are discussed in
 >J.ASBC 57(1):18-23, 1999 by Smart et al. [...]

I have discussed this article at length elsewhere, [...]
The limitations of staining cited in this article occur only
when < 90% viability is experienced.
>>

Actually they didn't note that limitation.  They included comments about the
poor performance during certain growth phases(related), and the pH
dependence of the result.

Iodine of course is not related to viability, but to glycogen or other
starch.  By the iodine test a slurry killed by heat or chemical means will
still show as "viable".  The flaked dried yeast from the heath food store
that has been in my fridge for over a year, when made into a slurry still
shows as "viable" by visual iodine test.  That is what I mean when I say
iodine does not measure viability.  Glycogen will drop from 40+% of dry cell
mass to about 6% of dry cell mass over the first several hours after
pitching.  The yeast are NOT 6 times less viable at high krausen by ANY
reasonable measure - yet iodine indicates this.


<<.
Some of the most problematic beers I
have produced in the past have been with yeast in this condition. Quite
frankly if it is below 90% I am going to take corrective action, and from a
practical point of view I could care less if it 60% or for that matter 80%.
>>

Agree, but the M.blue test can overestimate viability when it is (by CFU
count)  below 85% so may give a false "good" result. Iodine tests something
entirely different.


- -- Vitality (not viability) --

Most interesting is that in the paper above Methylene violet (see paper for
methods) correlates quite well with yeast "vitality", a measure of the state
of health of the yeast.  Vitality measures are meant to measure the
condition of yeast relevant to brewing application and are undoubtedly
crude, Vitality is without an established measure.  M.Blue staining does not
correlate well w/ vitality in this study, M.violet does.

cc: George Fix
 -S




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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:10:58 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Rodenbach

Steven Parfitt asks:
"I recently got a couple of bottles of Alaxander Rodenbach, and in searching
the archives found references in late 1999 and early 2000 that Palm had
bought out Rodnebach and was making changes, like discontinuing Alaxander
Rodenbach, although they are reported to be keeping Rodenbach Gran Cru."

My understanding is that Palm is discontinuing the Alexander, which has cherry
juice added, but keeping the Rodenbach Classic and the Gran Cru. This URL from
the Real Beer Page has more info
http://realbeer.com/news/articles/news-000720.html

While it's still disappointing to loose the Alexander, it's not the tragedy
that loosing Rodenbach or the Gran Cru would have been. These are truly unique
and wonderful beers.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:10:28 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: adding beer to the haze ... clarification sought.

I've had a copy of Bamforth's ASBC paper on 'beer haze' printed and in my
stack for months.  It's a great concise review paper with clear reasoning.
Charles Bamforth has been hitting 'em  out of the park recently.  Thanks for
making me read it, Paul Smith.

pksmith_morin1 writes ....

[of PVPP and others ...]

>My only problem
>with these agents is that they also tend to pull isohumulones, not merely
>the offending polyphenols.

I've seen studies where polyamides were used to filter the bejeebers out of
beer and they will grab an interesting and wide array of materials.  What I
haven't seen is a credible study that shows the *amount* of isohumulones
lost to a haze-effective dose of PVPP is significant.  My tongue tells me
the amount is small and well within the huge error bounds of IBUs produced
by HB hopping.  Hops aroma constituents and melanoidin extraction
concerns are similar.   Early and proper use of  PVPP can unquestionable
*improve* some beers.  I don't advise any fining unless you expect problems.
PVPP and it's cousins are the least objectionable and most effective of the
lot.

>This is why I am loathe to place too much
>emphasis on reducing polyphenolic or protein components - e.g., using
>proteolysis, as I said earlier, is a great way to reduce haze; it is also a
>great way to kill your foamstand since the haze-active proteins are not
>separate from the foamstand proteins.

Agreed - proteolysis is dangerous to foam, but some people (not me) treasure
clear beer more than head.  It is a judgment call.  You are wrong tho' to
assume that every well modified malt (by Kolbach or SNR%) will make clear
beer.  Modification indices do not tell us what we need to know about the
haze potential of malts.   In problem cases a protein rest or PVPP may solve
the problem.

>I would rely more on "good practice,"
>which I define, in this instance, as the absolute avoidance of
>post-brewhouse O2 pickup.

Paul, I'd prefer that 'beer makers' took a page from the better winemakers
book and did as little processing of beer after pitching as feasible.  I'd
rather be a great wort & starter maker than a 'brewer' who achieves results
by fining, adding hop extracts, VDK removal enzymes, filtering and otherwise
'doctoring' the beer.   That doesn't mean I wouldn't use these methods, but
that I consider all of  them to be a crutch and *USUALLY* unnecessary.
'Usually' isn't  'always' and knowing what other methods work with a minimum
of negative impact and when to use them  is important.  Limited proteolysis
or proper PVPP type finings are two practical approaches available to HBers
when good practices fail to produce clear beer with a given malt.

As far as O2 pickup goes - there is a mountain of evidence the oxidizing and
polymerizing phenolics in the mash and boost to boil improves a beers
stability (haze resistance).  I still argue that the O2 induced oxidation,
and the loss of simple phenolics is a flavor negative.  Other reasonable
people disagree or give the flavor matter less weight.  Avoiding O2 in the
brewhouse - according the ASBC Bamforth paper you cite is a possible cause
of beer haze , and does not reduce haze.  Of course O2 inclusion after the
fermentation is a  universally recognized evil, can cause haze, but is not
necessary for haze.   O2 exclusion after fermentation is not sufficient to
prevent a haze if it's already 'built in the beer'.

>Regarding ratios:
Sorry - I don't get all of your comments.  Please review my understanding of
your statement and explain.

I'll adapt Bamforth's terminology... any molecule with 2 or more phenolic
groups is a polyphenol (but not necessarily a polymer) to Bamforth.  Only
the simplest phenolics, like ferulic, vanillic, caffeic acid, quercetin etc
are NOT polyphenols. The polymers of these simplest examples are both
polymers and polyphenols. The Flavanols, proanthocyanidins,
leucoanthocyanidins etc have two phenolic groups held together by an adapted
heterocyclic ring.  Bamforth would call these polyphenols, but not polymers.
The dimer trimers etc of the flavanols, etc are polymers of polyphenols.

>Regarding ratios: If there is an overabundance of polyphenols vis-a-vis the
>protein HA sites, then this will prevent the dimers formed from binding to
>other dimers, and the total haze potential is consequently reduced.

I think you are saying that if there is an overabundance of MONOMERIC PACs,
then these will bind at the HAprotein sites and not cross-link to another
protein.  I agree.  I mentioned the other day, the monomeric forms won't
cross link (aren't tannoids).    You should understand tho' that if there
are both mono- and di-meric PACs as in beer then di-meric PACs will bind
more strongly and so eventually occupy more sites on the HA protein..

But ...
>then this will prevent the dimers formed from binding to
>other dimers

No.   Why would this prevent further polymerization of the now higher
concentration of PAC dimers ?  I don't see that and anyway dimeric PACs are
tannoids and don't need to polymerize further to add to haze.  Also the
creation or failure to create can't reduce that haze.  I think you must mean
something other than "dimer" here.

So I still disagree with the conclusion.  If you add a complete mix of
wort-like polyphenolics, including polymeric polyphenols to the beer you
will get more haze till particulate precipitation dominates, not less.   The
paper I cited on total stabilization uses exactly this method.  And the
Bamforth paper you cite described this also.

[other ratio statements omitted pending clarification (sic) ]

I'm open to clarification, Paul, but I suspect you are incorrectly using the
term "dimer" to represent the polyphenol-protein complex which is not a
polymer at all.  Could that be it ?

====

>don't
>polymerize your haze compounds - O2 is your enemy!

If haze is the only issue then you should oxidize and  polymerize all the
polyphenols you can before the boil and leave them in the break for added
haze stability.   Of course if flavor or color matters you may have other
issues with O2 in the brewing process, but that's not haze.  O2 after
fermentation is of course a serious potential haze generator.

sincere thanks for the intelligent discussion Paul,

 -Steve






Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 06:16:38 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: FG Estimation

Axle axe'd:

"What is the proper way to determine what the Final Gravity should be
regardless of style ?"

Most yeast strains typically will ferment away 65% to 75% of the OG
above 1.000, leaving 25% to 35%.  So if your OG is 1.050, you would be
left with 25% to 35% of the .050 part, or .0125 to 0.0175, for an
expected FG between 1.0125 to 1.0175 or 1.013 to 1.018 rounded to three
decimal places.

The percentage of reduction of the OG to the FG is called
"attenuation".  Specifically when measuring attenuation by gravity only,

it is called "apparent" attenuation because the alcohol that is
produced, being of a gravity considerably lower than 1.000, "distorts"
the picture by exaggerating the gravity drop more than is accounted for
by just the reduction in sugar.  When the effect of alcohol's
exaggeration is accounted for, we have what is called "real
attenuation".  But for determining what your hydrometer will read at the


This is highly dependent on several factors -- yeast strain, aeration,
wort composition, mash temperature, fermentation temperature, to name a
few.  The yeast suppliers generally publish the apparent attenuation
ranges for their yeast strains in catalogs and on their web pages.

- --
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
"The Gadget Store" http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com






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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:03:21 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Final Gravity

Alxe asks: " What is the proper way to determine what the Final Gravity
should be
regardless of style ?"

Well I'm not quite sure what question you're asking since what final gravity
a beer "should have" is highly dependent on the style.  Some are supposed to
finish much lower than others but definition.  However, if you're asking
what the lowest final gravity of a batch of beer should reach then there is
a way to tell.  Basically you want to force ferment some of the wort.  Take
some of the pitched wort, 50ml-100ml is probably enough.  You want to aerate
this well and place it in a nicely warm place.  Agitate it often by
stirring, swirling, shaking.  You're not going to make good beer this way so
don't worry about that.  Do maintain sanitation so you don't introduce wild
yeast or bacteria that would alter the fermentation.  What you are doing is
to force the yeast and wort in question to ferment to it's maximum quickly
so you can measure this and know ahead of the main fermentation what final
gravity it could achieve.  

Dave


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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:18:44 -0400
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Pumps in RIMS and HERMS systems

Quick Question...

In a RIMS or HERMS system do the pumps runn constantly?  Or are they turned
on and off with the element in a RIMS system?

I am trying to decide if bypass solenoids would be a good idea in my HERMS
system to reroute wort flow through the HERMS coil and leave the pump
running at all times.

Any thoughts out there?

Happy Brewing

Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr



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Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 07:33:22 -0700
From: Peter Torgrimson <petertorgrimson at prodigy.net>
Subject: RE:  N. CA Road Trip

"Jim Hagey" <hagey at attglobal.net>  writes:

>>I am planning a road trip with my son to Northern California ....
(snip) Question:
>>location of brewpubs?

If you are going to be in the very northern part of the state I
recommend you stop at North Coast Brewery in Ft. Bragg.  You can tour
the brewery and they have (at least, used to have, since I haven't been
up there in a while) a nice restaurant across the street from the
brewery.

There are a ton of breweries and brewpubs in Northern California.  My
suggestion is, as soon as you land in California, go to a homebrew
supply shop or brewpub and get a copy of the Celebrator Beer News, a
tabloid newspaper type publication.  It contains a listing of brewpubs
and breweries in the territory.  It includes the phone numbers so you
can call for directions to the establishments.

Peter Torgrimson
Worts of Wisdom Homebrewers
Mountain View, CA



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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:30:55 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Munich Dunkel

Another thing to consider regarding Munich malt - there are different 
colors.  Durst makes 20 EBU and 40 EBU (very roughly 10 and 20L).  A 
beer made with all dark Munich malt will be an appropriate color and 
very rich flavored.  Probably will finish a little high so mashing at 
a lower temperature might be appropriate.

I was going to brew a 100% dark malt Munich this winter, but I 
dropped the bucket of malt crossing the street to a friend's house 
who has a mill.  The lid popped off and I was able to recover only 
about half.  So I had to substitute some pilsner malt and a little 
debittered chocolate.  Tasted nice, but not the experiment I wanted 
to try.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 10:50:17 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Bernzomatic and stone- Buy Both

I tried to buy the oxygen regulator from Bernzomatic as a replacement part
and was told that they didn't sell it for liability reasons. So, I decided
to buy the mapp gas/oxygen product for $50 and add on a stone for another
$15. I will just slip the stone hose over the torch end. For $10-15 more
than I would pay for the Liquid Bread set-up I have a nice torch in the
bargain. A friend has the LB and the Oxygen regulators appear to be the
same.

Bruce Garner in Madison, WI



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:35:33 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Electric Immersion Heater

So what to do with my Mapp gas torch. I made an brewer's electric immersion
heater.

I incorporated a 4500 watt water heater element. I used the old style one
with four bolt holes - $6.06 at Home Depot. I attached it to a 1" brass
elbow sweated to a 30" long 1" copper pipe. The brass elbow is sweat fitting
on one side and threaded on the other. The threaded side has an ample flat
shoulder to accept the rubber gasket that comes with the heater element. The
problem is that the plastic insulation holding the screw terminals won't fit
inside the threads. By using a cheap 1 1/4" hole drill the threads are
removed and the element, with its rubber gasket removed and put on the
backside snugly around the plastic terminal block, will just slide into the
now threadless elbow. The wires are slid down the pipe and attached first.
The element is held in place with a 2 1/2" spread U bolt. The heater element
bolt holes are, on the diagonal, a little more than 2 1/2" center to center.
I used a rat tail file to groove the back side of the brass elbow where the
U bolt bears. The rubber gasket bulges nicely when you tighten the U bolt.

I run mine at 120 V so the output is 1150 watts and the draw about 9 amps.
They are very flexible in use. My mash/lauter tun is fully insulated with a
bottom outlet. I just lower the heater in and it can have my water to strike
temperature in a couple hours. My hot liquor tank sits on a shelf and gets
another heater in it. When I mash in the first element goes in the HLT and
my sparge water is soon ready. I recirculate without a heating chamber. But
I can drop an element or two right in the mash while the pump is running and
get a temperature boost. When I run off I drop the elements in my boil
kettle to run in conjunction with the burner below. They will keep a boil
going by themselves.

The cost is minimal. I made them for about $15 each. They can be cleaned by
hanging the element in vinegar for a few minutes. If you want a photo email
me.

Bruce Garner in Madison, WI



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Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:53:47 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: All Grain System Break-In

OK, my Gee-whiz All-Grain brewing system is almost ready for christening!

I've washed the kettles with Greased Lightning (alkaline cleaner) and rinsed 
them well.

Is there a recommended pre-cleaning and break-in procedure? Recommended 
cleaning compound?

Do I need to dedicate the first mash to the Brew-Gods?

Seems like the first batch will probably be cleaning out the lines, etc, and 
I'm not sure if I want to spend a lot of time making a batch of beer that 
could be contaminated.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Ready to run.
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=241124

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck





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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:06:04 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: 2001 Buzz Off Homebrew Competition

This is the final announcement of the 2001 Buzz Off Homebrew competition.
Check out the
details of the beer, cider and mead competition at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~housemanfam/2001BuzzOff/ to be held June 9th at
the General Lafayette Inn and Brewery in Lafayette Hills, PA, just outside
of Philadelphia.   The Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) homebrew
club is seeking BJCP judges in addition
entries in all style categories.  The Buzz Off is an MCAB Qualifying Event.
Entries are due by June 3rd.

David Houseman


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Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:27:25 -0400
From: Tom Riddle <ftr at oracom.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Lambic digest / Alaxander Rodenbach / Help

References: <200105010428.AAA21285 at brew.hbd.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:41:50 -0400
> From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Lambic digest / Alaxander Rodenbach / Help
> 
> 
> I recently got a couple of bottles of Alaxander Rodenbach, and in searching
> the archives found references in late 1999 and early 2000 that Palm had
> bought out Rodnebach and was making changes, like discontinuing Alaxander
> Rodenbach, although they are reported to be keeping Rodenbach Gran Cru.

I was at the Kulminator in Antwerp last Thursday and heard 
the same sad story.  Also, the Alexander was crossed off of 
every beer menu I saw in Belgium.

- -- 

Tom Riddle

Oracom, Inc.
http://www.oracom.com

Tel. +1 978.557.5710x305
Fax  +1 978.557.5716


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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:32:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Garthwaite <mgarth at primate.wisc.edu>
Subject: 15th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest


The Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild is proud to announce that
tickets are now on sale for the Great Taste of the Midwest on Saturday
August 11th at Olin-Turville Park in Madison, WI.  Once again we expect
100 of the finest breweries from throughout the Midwest to join us.  Your
$20 ticket includes a commemorative beer glass and samples of over 400
great beers.  To order tickets by mail, send a self-addressed stamped
envelope and a check or money order made payable to the Madison
Homebrewers & Tasters Guild to:  MHTG PO Box 1365 Madison, WI 53701.

	For more info, visit www.mhtg.org

Cheers,

 -Mark Garthwaite
 MHTG




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Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:34:19 -0400
From: Mike Lewandowski <mlew5 at home.com>
Subject: Stein Resources

A relative of mine has been collecting steins for a while.  He's interested
in knowing (approximately) how much they are worth.  I have no idea where
to tell him to start looking.  Does anyone know of any resources (on-line
or off) that I could point him to?  Thanks!


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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:10:59 EDT
From: TomAGardner at cs.com
Subject: parti-gyle brewing

If you do batch sparges and measure your s.g. for each you will know how to 
figure out a parti-gyle recipe. This weekend I mashed 40 lb and made 4 
gallons of 1.120 s.g. barleywine from the first runnings, 1.072 IPA (boiled 
on 
the dregs of the BW - I couldn't face wasting the wort held by 6 oz of leaf 
hops), then I added a minimash of chocolate, crystal and mild to the third 
runnings for 5 gallons of 1.042 mild (overshot). It all looks and smells 
great 
so far. Enjoy!


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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:31:19 EDT
From: Brunnenbraeu at aol.com
Subject: Subject: Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalten

>  Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalt's.  This is a very old German saying 
>  that refers to the brewer's art.  The Hopfen and Malz does indeed 
>  refer to hops and barley.  The Gott erhalts roughly translated into 
>  English means god will provide or god takes care of the rest.  
>  This is taken from the verb erhalten, meaning to maintain, sustain 
>  or preserve.  I agree with Jeff, this is a colloquialism of the verb 
>  so it will rhyme nicely with Malz.  This last part of the saying is a 
>  reference to yeast.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Brewsters, Brewers, and Ordinary Beer Consumers,

I don't quite agree with this explanation, mainly because _erhalt's_ ist a 
shortened imperative form instead of _erhalte es_, so I'm convinced it should 
mean:

Hops and malt, may God keep care of it.

It seams to be a plea to God for keeping care of always enough hops and malt, 
so that we can brew forever.

Cheers / Zum Wohl / Na zdrowie,

Volker R. Quante - Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery
brunnenbraeu at aol.com

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland,
but definitely a German Homebrewer


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