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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Barley Wine Yeast Selection/Watney's Cream Stout/California ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Chillen in St. Louis... Hook me up!!! ("John")
  Yeast evaluation (BrwyFoam)
  Beer in Moscow, Russia ("Brangan")
  Air lock in RIMS (MAB)
  Aeration (Nathan Kanous)
  Have a great/safe summer ("Hill, Steve")
  Re: Building your own Oxygenator (Bill_Rehm)
  grain mill roller speed ("Micah Millspaw")
  Hop Utilization ("Hudson, Carl E")
  Glouster - any recommendations ("Jay Wirsig")
  Hop Utilization ("Hudson, Carl E")
  yeast viability/vitality confusion ("Alan Meeker")
  Off Colored Copper (Brad Miller)
  Norcal beers (You Bastards)
  yeast liveliness (Spencer W Thomas)
  Easy Celsius <--> Fahrenheit ("Rich, Charles")
  Thanx ("Axle Maker")
  Question: how much lactose makes a Stout...sweet? (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Re:  RIMS pump running ("Dion Hollenbeck")
  Siebel Scholarship ("Richard Sieben")


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:17:16 -0400 
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Barley Wine Yeast Selection/Watney's Cream Stout/California

Hello, Friends..

I am laying down a small (1 gal) batch of a barley wine recipe that I am
tweaking. I am not sure what yeast to use. I have Pasteur Dry Champagne
yeast, Montrachet dry wine yeast, a variety of dry ale yeasts (Edme,
Danstar, Muntons, etc.), Wy 1052 (Chico), Wy 1098, and I have what my home
brew store owner recommended, a Wy 3787, which seems way out of profile to
me, but hey, maybe I can use it for something else. My research into other
recipes hasn't been too helpful. I am leaning towards either the chico or
the champagne yeast. What do you think? 

On another note: Watney's Cream Stout was always one of my favorites, and I
haven't been able to find it anywhere, either online or in the world. Anyone
know what happened to this great beer? Anyone know where I can get it? 

Lastly: I am going to Southern California (Whittier) towards the end of May
for a few days. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Jeff


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:23:40 -0400
From: "John" <john at ruthsx.com>
Subject: Chillen in St. Louis... Hook me up!!!


Howdy,

Well here I am in a hotel in anytown USA (which happens to be St. Louis this
month) and I'm pheenin for a good brewpub/restaurant to wind down in.  I've
heard a lot about the area near the arch, but I wanted to consult with my
kind first.  Anybody from St. louis?  Where's the best place to go?  It'll
have to be somewhere where I can entertain clients and enjoy a good pint at
the same time.  Private email is fine, send to  john at ruthsx.com

Thanks brewers!!!!!!!!

Dr. John



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 04:43:44 EDT
From: BrwyFoam at aol.com
Subject: Yeast evaluation

Nathan asks:

> So as of yet not clearly answered is: which would be a more suitable
>pitching culture; A)a culture that is 97% alive with 6% glycogen levels
>or B) a culture that is 93% alive with 50% glycogen levels?

In my brewe4ry and with my beers it is going to be both. In fact my 
propagation scheme is based on achieving exactly this result.

It has been my practical experience that if one collects the "right yeast" 
from a previous fermentation and repitches it in a timely manner, then the 
two attribes are consistent; i.e., one will be satisfied if and only if the 
other is. This IMHO is one of the reasons why people find that yeast make 
better beer in the second or third  generation than in the first. One of 
course needs to also check for bacterial loading with LMDA (especially the 
anaerobic version) or HLP.

Cheers,

George Fix 


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:21:01 -0400
From: "Brangan" <brangan at msn.com>
Subject: Beer in Moscow, Russia

I will be traveling to Moscow, Russia in two weeks.  Does anyone have any
recommendations for local breweries, brewpubs, or good beer bars in the
city?

Thanks,

Jim



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Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:39:32 -0400
From: MAB <mabrooks12 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Air lock in RIMS

>>David N Boice <daveboice at juno.com>
>>Subject: Air lock in RIMS

>You might be reducing the pressure of the liquid enough to reach it's
vapor
>pressure. Could be a local effect where the static pressure in the
vicinity
>of a fitting is causing localized boiling at the elevated temperatures.
Just
>a thought.
>Dave Ludwig
>Flat Iron Brewery

I do believe you have hit the nail on the head.  In order to prevent
this one would need to insure the flow rate of the pump is in check with
the supply rate of the wort i.e. the NPSH (net positive suction head) is
enough to prevent cavitation.  If the mash is compacted it will reduce
the NPSH available and will cause cavitation.

Try lowering the pump further below the the mash.
Try lowering the pump flow rate(should be able to purchase a rheostat
from home depot for this).
Try increasing the pipe (tubing) size from the mash tun to the pump
inlet & decrease the discharge size.
Keep the mash tun thoroughly stirred to prevent compaction.

Matt B.
Northern VA.






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Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 07:48:19 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Aeration

Brian Gros asks about the differences between 2 micron and 0.5 micron 
oxygenating stones and comments "The difference there, I believe, is the 
smaller bubbles from the half micron stone, but then you have to worry 
about foaming."

Yes, the 0.5 micron will give smaller bubbles.  Smaller bubbles mean larger 
surface area for oxygen to be absorbed into the wort.  This is, in my 
opinion, a good thing.

More foaming?  I'll bet that both would foam A LOT.  I don't see that much 
foaming with my stone (it came from Liquid Bread with the Oxynator kit).  I 
get some foaming, but it's not going to overflow a 6.5 gallon carboy.  I'd 
bet that if I used a coarser stone I'd get much more foam than with the 
smaller, but I'm guessing.

Hope this helps.

Nathan in Madison, WI



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:02:45 -0400 
From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com>
Subject: Have a great/safe summer

Hello all!

As the summer is approaching here in the USA and the brewing season is
almost wrapped up for about 90% of us, I would like to say to everyone to
have a great summer and talk to you this fall.  I would also recommend going
over all of your brewing equipment, and evaluating those recipes.  I know
that when I am sitting on the beach this summer drinking a CAP or two or
four, I will be reading my heart out.

I will also be trying to simplify everything.  Like not having to sanitize
the bottle caps! 

Take care, 
Steve

PS. Hey Aussies, hope your brewing season is a great one. Brew it up! 




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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:08:42 -0500
From: Bill_Rehm at eFunds.Com
Subject: Re: Building your own Oxygenator

Don Lake rants about spending more on building your own oxygenator and not
spending less to by the Liquid Bread model.  If I buy a torch for $45 and a
stone and tubing for about $25 I have invested $70 and I have a great torch
and an oxygenation unit.  If I buy liquid bread and the torch I will spend
$85 (although Liquid Bread is $60 at my local homebrew shop).  I don't know
about all of you, but I'd rather get 2 tools and save $15 than to get just
one if that makes me nuts point me toward the Royal Canadian Mental
Hospital (I love drinking beer and playing hockey, even if the organ player
sucks!).  Or maybe we should all stop building our own all-grain setups and
buy systems from Sabco or B3.



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Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:42:40 -0500
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at silganmfg.com>
Subject: grain mill roller speed

It has  been my experience with 'in running nip' systems, which a roller
mill is a good example of, that roller surface speed should be be main
consideration and them back into the motor rpms from there. That is
 looking at the 
speed the circumference of the roller is at, rather than how fast it is turning.
 With the diameters and surface finish range of most homemade rollers a
 generally acceptable surface speed range would be 8 to 13 surface feet
 per minute. As diameters change surface speeds change even though
rpm stays the same.

Micah Millspaw - brewer at large



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:27:11 -0400 
From: "Hudson, Carl E" <CEHudson at upslogistics.com>
Subject: Hop Utilization

I plan on brewing with some hop pellets this weekend.  In the past I have
always added the pellets free and not in a muslim bag.  I have never used
muslim bags but it seems like it would ease the filtration process after the
boil.  My concern is how does this affect the hop utilization?  Does anyone
know if the hop utilization is affected by using a muslim bag vs. free
addition?  I am thinking that I might not get the bitterness or flavor I
would normally get if I use a muslim bag this time.  Personal emails are ok.

Thanks,
Carl Hudson  


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:38:30 -0400
From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com>
Subject: Glouster - any recommendations

I will be visitng Glouster UK area in late May on business.  Can anyone
provide recommendations on where to eat, drink and stay?  I would like to
try barley wine, mead and sample some great ales.  Private E-mails welcome.




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:45:37 -0400 
From: "Hudson, Carl E" <CEHudson at upslogistics.com>
Subject: Hop Utilization

I plan on brewing with some hop pellets this weekend.  In the past I have
always added the pellets free and not in a muslin bag.  I have never used
muslin bags but it seems like it would ease the filtration process after the
boil.  My concern is how does this affect the hop utilization?  Does anyone
know if the hop utilization is affected by using a muslin bag vs. free
addition?  I am thinking that I might not get the bitterness or flavor I
would normally get if I use a muslin bag this time.  Personal emails are ok.

Thanks,
Carl


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:54:09 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: yeast viability/vitality confusion

     Yeast viability and vitality are important parameters which can
profoundly affect fermentation performance and thus the resulting character
and quality of the beer produced. Unfortunately, they are often confused,
and with good reason as there are no accepted standard means of measuring
them and there is overlap in the measurement techniques used to assess the
two. The term viability deals with whether or not the yeast is alive while
vitality refers to the "vigor," health, or metabolic state/performance of
the yeast.
    Viability is often defined in terms of whether or not a yeast cell is
capable of reproducing leading to measurements based on such observations as
colony counting on agar plates however, as is the case for my grandmother,
you can certainly be alive but also be incapable of reproduction, so others
choose to measure viability based on some type of performance criteria
measurement such as dye exclusion or due metabolism (methylene blue, crystal
violet, fluorescent dye staining) or by other measures of metabolic activity
(ATP, NADH, intracellular pH) which indicate that the cell is alive.
    Vitality is a bit fuzzier concept, although clearly a cell must first be
viable in order to possess vitality. Yeast vitality is essentially a measure
of the health of the yeast and is assessed with an eye towards predicting
its behavior during fermentation. Usually measurements are made to assure
that a given parameter is at or above some empirically pre-determined cutoff
value, above which good fermentation performance is likely to occur (though
this is by no means guaranteed). Many measurements have been suggested and
tried including:  cell size/morphology, measurement of respiratory quotient
(oxygen uptake), fermentation capacity (CO2 production), cellular pH, and
cellular glycogen, sterol, ATP and NADH levels to name just a few. Note that
some of these are also used as measures of viability in the literature which
obviously leads to confusion.

- ------------------------------------------------------
Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Biochemistry,Cellular and Molecular Biology
Baltimore, MD
- ------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:17:33 -0700
From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com>
Subject: Off Colored Copper

	While I was breaking down my system for the "Big Move" I 
noticed that the copper HERMS coil was pretty discolored on the 
outside.  Not just dull but almost rainbow colored if that makes 
sense.  There was no crust on it or anything but the metal had just 
become colored beyond what I thought it should be.  Normally I 
wouldn't care since it doesn't touch the wort but it does touch the 
sparge water.  Is this the kind of effect that happens to copper in a 
still or is the heat just discoloring the metal?  Is there anything 
that I should do to it?  Is it safe?  Thanks for the help.

Brad


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:17:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: You Bastards <dude_kennysdead at yahoo.com>
Subject: Norcal beers

Bear Republic is who makes Racer X, as well as some
other VERY good beers, it's in Healdsburg, right off
the 101.

There is an EXCELLENT german style brewery in Davis,
Sudwerk.  Excellent beer garden type patio, one of my
favorite places to drink.

Don't miss Anderson Valley, in Booneville.  Mad River
is another excellent choice (clear lake? can't
remember)

North Coast (!!), Mendocino brewing company
(hopland?), Steelhead (burlingame), Triple Rock
(Berkeley), Tied-House (san jose?) are all great spots
to hit...

There are also great spots that stock many, many local
brews on tap, the depot in concord is one of my
personal favorites..  If you do happen to be in Davis,
check out the cantina, they've got somewhere in the
neighborhood of 70 or so on tap at once.

Hope that helps!
You will not find northern ca lacking in high quality
micros, my large beer belly can attest to that!

enjoy,
brent



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Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 15:03:53 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: yeast liveliness

No, this is not about viability or vitality! :-)

A bit over a week ago I brewed an Alt-style beer, and pitched a happy
culture of White Labs Duesseldorf Alt yeast.  It fermented violently
for a while. When I checked on it after being away for the weekend, I
found it had settled down, but upon racking, it had only attenuated
about 50%.  I thought that this might be because the cellar was at
about 60F, so I brought it upstairs to the kitchen for a few days.
I'm happy to report that the yeast revived (as evidenced by a nice
layer of foam on top of the beer), and the beer is now attenuated a
full 80%.  I've moved it back downstairs to let the yeast settle
before racking to the serving vessel.

So, at least in this one case, incomplete fermentation appears to be
attributable to cold yeast.  Once it got through the "high krauesen"
stage of fermentation, it pretty much stopped.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:21:03 -0700 
From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com>
Subject: Easy Celsius <--> Fahrenheit

Greetings Brewers,

I'm just now catching up on last week's HBD's and had to pipe up about the
Celsius --> Fahrenheit schemes.   I'm surprised that my favorite way wasn't
mentioned so I'd like to offer an easy alternate form that gives the *exact*
conversion in either direction. 

For Celsius to Fahrenheit:
Add 40
Multiply by 1.8
Subtract 40

For Fahrenheit to Celsius:
Add 40
Divide by 1.8
Subtract 40

Example:  25C --> ??F
25 + 40 = 65
65 * 1.8 = 117
117 - 40 = 77F

Example:  158F --> ??C
158 + 40 = 198
198 / 1.8 = 110
110 - 40 = 70C

The pattern is simple, add 40, multiply/divide by 1.8, subtract 40.  Presto
Bang! you get the exact conversion.  Since the number of fahrenheit degrees
is almost always a larger number than Celsius degrees (above -40F) it's easy
to remember whether to multiply or divide for the direction of the
conversion.


Cheers to Beers,
Charles Rich


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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:12:42 -0400
From: "Axle Maker" <axlemaker at mindspring.com>
Subject: Thanx

I would like to thank everyone who helped me out with my question about
determing Final Gravity.
What a great service HBD is.

Thanx again, Axle...
Axle's Alewerk's



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:22:16 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: Question: how much lactose makes a Stout...sweet?

Dudes;

I recently attempted to brew a sweet stout (I will share the all-grain
recipe if anyone would like to see it), and , in looking over the
various references that I have ,...I see that Miller (p 227, The
Complete Handbook...) suggests (beyond using unattenuative yeast, and
'as high a mash temperature as we dare')  that one can use lactose.  He says
as much as 1/2 pound....Has anyone experience with using lactose ...how much
and when?  I did put about 2 heaping tablespoons in the boil...and plan
on puting more into the secondary (boiled of course)...but am basically not
certain either :

how much to use

and

when to use it?

ok...I guess that the recipe IS important...if I want to get accurate advice.


Here it is:

Single stage all grain infusion, 1 rest at 158F for 90 minutes.

grain bill was:
5 lb pilsner (weissheimer)
2.5 lb Vienna
 .5 lb Chocolate
pinch of Black malt
 .75 lb Crystal (Fawcett's)
 .5 Roasted Barley (in sparge)
 .25 special B
1 lb Torrified Barley


I know .... to many different types of grain...but I got carried away...

First runnings were 1.08
boil gravity was 1.048

original gravity was 1.05


any ideas from all you brewers...as to how much lactose...and when
to use it...to make a sweet/cream/milk stout?


 ..Darrell
<Terminally Intermediate Home-brewer>






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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:27:16 -0700
From: "Dion Hollenbeck" <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re:  RIMS pump running

My pump runs continuously (well almost).  I run it at full bore while
doughing in. I pour my grain into the returning wort stream, not using my
return manifold, but just a bent piece of copper tubing.  Then when done
doughing in, I stop the pump, stir the mash to break up compaction, then put
on the return manifold and turn on the pump very low.  My pump is a 17GPH
variety and without this step, the first full bore recirc has really set the
grain bed tightly.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:01:46 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1 at email.msn.com>
Subject: Siebel Scholarship

Many of you already know that last year I was the lucky winner of the Siebel
scholarship sponsored by the AHA and Lallemand.  There will be another
scholarship given away this year so be sure to sign up at
http://www.beertown.org  Last year, there were less than 1,000 applicants,
so my chances were a lot better than what you could get with $33 worth of
lottery tickets.  The deadline approaches for entry, so get it done now!  It
is really worth the effort.  I was brewing pretty good beer before Siebel,
now I brew far better beer.  Not only does the AHA and Lallemand pay for the
two week short course, they also give you $1,000 for living
expenses....pretty darn cool if you ask me!

Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL



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