---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Beer & Sweat Party ("Dan Listermann")
  55 Gallon SS drum (Bill Frazier)
  Re: THE DREAM MASH TUN (mark alfaro)
  Two Thingies (Cas Koralewski)
  CAP experiment -- controlling variables / Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  Thanks, George (Denis Bekaert)
  Oh The Shame (craftbrewer)
  Fw: Re: Fruit puree in the secondary and the fermentation geometry experiment. Update speriment (Gary M Chumney)
  55 gal drums, etc ("Tammy Duriavich")
  Cranberries, fermentation & NA advice ("Tammy Duriavich")
  cranberries ("elvira toews")
  yeast starter (Hop_Head)


* 
* 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA
* June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more 
* information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig!
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
* 
* All gave some, but some gave all... Remember those
*     who have fought and those who have fallen. 
*             Memorial Day, 5/28/01
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 11:59:19 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Beer & Sweat Party 

Eric Tepe forgot to mention the biggest draw to this mondo party.  For the
past few or so years, we have had more than 100 kegs of homebrew on tap for
your tasting pleasure!  $5.00 and people don't bring marginal beers to this
event.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our new E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!



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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 00:43:54 -0500
From: Bill Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 55 Gallon SS drum

Dennis Collins is looking for a 55 gallon SS drum or larger.  Presque Isle 
Wine Cellars (www.piwine.com) has these in sizes ranging from 21 gallons to 
1057 gallons, depending on the type of fitting (either threaded or 
Tri-Clover).  My 2000 catalog lists the prices for an approx. 55 gallon 
drum at $376 with threaded fitting to $583 with TriClover.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas



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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 09:36:15 -0700
From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com>
Subject: Re: THE DREAM MASH TUN

Steve,
Check out RCB Fermentation at http://www.rcbequip.com/
I just checked, and they don't have them currently listed. If you call
them they may be able to help. I have seen them listed on their site
used, surplus from the wine industry. They are located in Sacramento, CA
and their phone # is 1-888-449-8859. I have purchased ball lock kegs
from them before. No affiliation yada yada.
Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA


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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:49:51 -0400
From: Cas Koralewski <caskor at buckeye-express.com>
Subject: Two Thingies

Thingie 1) Are there any recipes out there for a triple bock?

Thingie 2) I've been brewing for seven years now and am ready to take the 
major leap (as long as "mom" ok's it).I am interested in constructing my 
own two or three tier brewing system. Are there any DYI plans floating out 
there that I can "tap" into?

Thanks,
Cas 



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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:15:55 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: CAP experiment -- controlling variables / Competition

It would seem to me that the best way to control the variables in this
experiment is to have each brewer brew a larger brewlength (say 10 gal) and
split this into two fermenters, one a corny keg, and the other whatever s/he
has, bucket, carboy or CC.  With essentially the other variables for each
for each split batch being the same/controlled, the hypothesis is that the
fermenter will not make a significant difference in the beer quality.  If
the resulting beers from all of us experiment brewers are then judged blind
and a correlation between the resulting scores and the type of fermenter
calculated we should be able to test this hypothesis while having controlled
the variables.  It's been years since I did it and I'm not a statistician,
but I believe what we want is a regression analysis.  

Not many of us have CC fermenters, so we'd have to just do the test between
corny kegs and other.  The important thing is we can't ensure that all
brewers produce the same wort and our processes are very different.  No
doubt some of you can make better beer in a bathtub than others might in the
best CC.  But each brewer splitting the batch and using two fermenter types
or geometry's will isolate this variable against which we can test our
hypothesis.  

BTW, when I suggested that Jeff and crew judge these beers, I wasn't
suggesting that they just be tasted, but rather that we hold a sanctioned
competition for the single style.  By having each brewer submit two entries,
one from each fermenter type, we not only gather our data for the test but
the competition will give us the top beers (brewers) as well.  And it would
be interesting to see which finish higher, the beers from one fermenter type
or the two beers from the same brewer.   If Jeff can hold such a sanctioned
competition, great.  If not, I'll volunteer to organize one, perhaps early
Fall. 

Dave Houseman


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Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Thanks, George

I'd like to thank George de Piro for his comments on
my suggestion (well, OK, not REALLY mine, since I got
it from BYO) to use Malta as a yeast starter.  The
great thing about his reply was that he explained WHY
it was not good brewing practice, and it was done in a
courteous way.  

Thanks, George, that's why the HBD is such a great
learning tool for those of us with less experience.

Denis Bekaert
Brewing in Beechgrove, Tennessee, where Moonshine is
our history, but brewing beer is our passion.



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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:18:35 +1000
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Oh The Shame

G'day All
/
Yes its true everyone. I have succome to a challenge and 
brewed something that I swore I would never do. Yes I have 
brewed a commercial tastless swill. And why you ask (and even 
if didn't I will tell you lot anyway).
/
Well Young SWMBO turns 18 in about a month and a half. 
Now she is already a keen craftbrewer, promoting the hobby 
where-ever she goes. Even when she goes to the pub and 
nightclubs, and her mates offer her a VB, XXXX or Fosters, she 
says in no uncertain terms, "what - dont they have real beer 
here". Then she rants to her mates about proper beer and how 
to make it. yep a chip off the ol block. Combined with her 
expensive tastes in seafood some poor bugger will have a hard 
time keeping her happy.
/
So she approched said and asks for a 19 litre keg of beer for 
the upcoming party. Now she well and truely has her head 
screwed on, for she says wisely "can you make a beer like the 
commercial rubbish. Lets face it, they are all 18 year old 
know -it-all, who think thats the only kind of beer arround, and 
wont be told otherwise -idiots. No point wasting good beer on 
them till they grow up a bit". As I said the poor bloke who 
marries her, for no wiser words spoken.
/
So I did it. Hows this for an Aussie Mega-swill.
19 litres - 90%efficency
2.0 kg Pale malt
0.1kg Crystal (It wasn't going in, but had to have some class)
750 g Dextrose
/
20 IBU Pride of Ringwood 60 minute boil.
No flavour hops, No aroma hops.
/
Four packets rehydrated lager yeast, 15C ferment.
/
Been in the fermenter a week, just going thru its diacetyl rest as 
we speak. Haven't used a dry yeast in years, Boy didn't it 
produce a lot (heaps) of that wonderful buttery smell. For those 
Aussie out their. If you want a XXXX, add 
golden cluster hops, 10 grams at 10 minutes, and you have 
a XXXX clone.
/
Now I have to go, got to confess my sins. Now which way does 
Jeff live so I can bow and repent.
/
Shout
Graham Sanders
/
oh
I used for the first time some home grown hops kindly sent to 
me. I must say I was impressed looking at these firm perfectly 
formed cones bobing up and down in the wort. And the smell 
was sooo farm fresh. Suddenly my processed hop flowers 
(plugs) look tired and past it. I WILL get my hop plants up here 
in the tropics to flower. There are hormones you know that 
can cause this sort of thing. Now how do you make a hormone
 - Just treat her............  opps cant go there






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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:12:25 -0400
From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: Fruit puree in the secondary and the fermentation geometry experiment. Update speriment



- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com>
To: post@hbd.org
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 08:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Fruit puree in the secondary and the fermentation geometry
experiment.
Message-ID: <20010527.084155.-382581.0.garychumney at juno.com>

To Darrell;

It has been my experience in the past to add the fruit puree in the
sesecondary for most beers that I make and let them ferment for at least
two weeks after I place them in the secondary.  I have not ever roused
the trub back into the green beer and I have had plenty of flavor and
aroma form the fruit puree.  There is enough suspended yeast in the beer
to carbonate the ales and enough in it to even have enough for a larger. 
 The only time I have ever used fruit in the primary is when I am making
a light flavored beer (read mostly an American Pilsner style)  with
raspberry puree.  The only other beers that I have waited to add fruit
puree into after the secondary fermentation was mostly complete was the
Lambic style fruit beers that I had made and then added them in at the
combination of yeasts and bacteria that produce this style of beer.  

After reading most of the debate about the fermentation geomgeometry
theads and the idea of many HBD readers making a CAP from mashing;  why
not do it with much tighter controls than has even been laid out before
the group which would have an even more widely based appeal to the rest
of the readers.  As most of us began as extract brewers, it is easier to
reproduce results between batches and reduce most of the variables; as a
suggestion instead you might want to use a simple recipe with common
components and that are readily available to every one.  My suggestion
would be to make a beer with DME with dried yeast.

Use the bottled water From Culligans as it  reporeted to control the
mineral content as much as possible through the country.
The rest of the recipe would be as follows for 5 gallons

4 lbs.  dry wheat malt extract
 ! lb      dry amber malt extract
8 oz.    Malto-dextrin

1.75 HBU of Hallertauer hops for 60 min.
1.75 HBU of Hallettauer hops for 30 min.
4.3   HBU of Saaz hops for 15 min

2 pk rehydrated Lallemand Nottingham yeast

The boil time would be for 65 min after the  rolling boil had been
established.   Force Cool the wort and rack off the cold break into the
fermenter and there would be no aeriation of the wort other than the
amount that would normally be obtained when the wort is transferred over
to the fermenter with the height of the top vessel' s bottom no more than
30 inchec above the bottom of the receiving fermenter.   All fermentation
to be controlled as much as possible to be around 68 derees F.  Closed
fermentation system as much as possible with only the air that is in
contact with the wort is that which is left in the fermenter.   This is
to be a Uni-tank fermentation with no secondary fermentation allowed.
Also,  the remaining air could be purged with co2.

Bottle with 4 oz of corn sugar boiled in 1 pint of water for 15 min.

This would be the only way to produce a consistant data points with all
parties involved in the project.

Gary Chumney
Three Lhasas and Miss Rippley Kitty Brewery
garychumney at juno.com
Knoxville, TN

Remember that the world is over three quarters water just think how much
beer that represents!!!



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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:22:52 -0500
From: "Tammy Duriavich" <murph at xsite.net>
Subject: 55 gal drums, etc

Try BASCO out of University Park, IL.  They have all sorts of buckets,
drums, etc & are excellent to deal with (NA, have used them for my
soapmaking needs).  I'm pretty sure their addy is www.basco.com & if that
doesn't work call 'em at 800-776-3786 for a catalog.  Not only do they have
the buckets/drums but they have the wheeled devices to more easily relocate
a full drum & the racks on which to store your Dream Mash Tuns <g>.  Good
luck!

Tammy Duriavich
~ Clean Hands, Warm Heart - Handmade Soaps & Bath Products
~ D & D's Gourmet Pet Snacks - NEW! Gourmet Snacks for Horses, too!
www.CleanHands-WarmHeart.com
email:  murph at xsite.net
Samples & Brochures available - Wholesale inquiries welcome




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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:43:26 -0500
From: "Tammy Duriavich" <murph at xsite.net>
Subject: Cranberries, fermentation & NA advice

First, understand I'm a VERY novice brewer.  That stated, I now have 3 5-gal
carboys bubbling away.  One is Lemon Slosh (my concoction of lemons, rinds &
sugar - used a pkg of Montrachet yeast & a vial of Burton Ale yeast 'cause I
thought the pkg didn't take - oops!) & the 2nd is Cranberry Slosh (5.25#
cranberries (frozen almost a year & then put thru the food processor in
semi-frozen state), 12 oz frozen oj concentrate (undiluted), 5# sugar & a
vial of Burton Ale yeast).  Both these are about 3 weeks old & the
fermentation, tho slow to start, has been *very* active & is currently
slowing down to about 4 bubbles/minute at 70`F ambient temp.  I have a
Lemon-Ginger Ale (12 lemons put thru food processor, 3 oz fresh grated
ginger, 2 C honey & 3 C granulated sugar) still in the initial blow-off
stage & will probably put the airlock on in the next 24 hrs.

I've taken OG readings & will monitor the SG as the ferementation
slows/stops.  My observation is that the cranberry concoction didn't take as
much convincing to begin ferementing as the first lemon mix did.  I plan to
bottle as with regular beer using corn sugar to prime & aging at room temp
(~70`F ambient). These'll either be really really good or really really bad
<g>.  Any input on brewing this type of beverage would be appreciated.

What I need, too, is to find out how to take my base & make it into a NA
beverage.  My 9yr old likes the flavor of the fruit bases but knows I won't
let him imbibe once it's finished (mean old Mom!).  Brewshop's closed til
Tues so thought I'd ask here in the meatime.  TIA for any/all input.

Tammy Duriavich
~ Clean Hands, Warm Heart - Handmade Soaps & Bath Products
~ D & D's Gourmet Pet Snacks - NEW! Gourmet Snacks for Horses, too!
www.CleanHands-WarmHeart.com
email:  murph at xsite.net
Samples & Brochures available - Wholesale inquiries welcome




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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:15:50 -0500
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: cranberries

Thank you to David Johnson for posting that info.  His comments are
consistent with what I've observed, in that the batches where I added the
fruit (frozen) to the end of the boil fermented normally, while in the last
batch where I added fruit to the secondary, the fermentation completed
normally, but the bottle priming is not giving much carbonation.

Hopefully the yeast can nibble its way slowly through the priming sugar and
I'll get something fizzy out of it.

Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca




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Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:06:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: yeast starter



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