---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Fermenter Dimensions Survey (Ken Schwartz)
  Re:  THE DREAM MASH TUN ("Dennis Collins")
  Beer and Sweat 2001 ("Eric R. Tepe")
  DREAM mash tun (RoyRudy)
  Re: THE DREAM MASH TUN / Brown Malt ("Drew Avis")
  Experiment merriment ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Cranberry fermentation (David Johnson)
  re: Siphon induced contamination (Bob Regent)
  Suggestion for MCAB recipes (David Johnson)
  Brewing/Beer Portal Prototype ("Donnie Lee")
  AHA BOA Election Results (Steve Casselman)
  geometrical datapoint update (Hubert Hanghofer)
  FWH post clarification ("George de Piro")


* 
* 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA
* June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more 
* information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig!
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:08:27 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Fermenter Dimensions Survey

We are considering offering a ten-gallon (2 x 5 gallon) version of the
Fermentation Chiller.  This would be a "side by side fermenter" unit.
We'd like to minimize the volume of the box for best cooling efficiency,
but we also want to be sure it can accomodate various types of
fermenters (buckets, carboys, kettles, etc).

So here's the survey qustion:  What are the dimensions (height and
diameter) of the 5-gallon fermenters you use?  Please respond to
gadgetstore at yahoo.com

Thank you for your assistance.

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page:  http://www.home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
The Gadget Store:  http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:18:53 -0400
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re:  THE DREAM MASH TUN

Steve writes:

"Now that I got your attention - I need help!  I need a stainless 55 gallon
Drum or larger for my DREAM mash tun!  Other than Mc Master - any
suggestions?  I want to mash 110 1lbs at a time to make the Almighty sami
clause! - "

55 gallon in stainless?  Bring your VISA card.  No matter where you go,
expect to pay $700 to $800 unless you can find a used one somewhere.  You
know the high density polyethylene 55 gallon drums are FDA approved and
should have a max working temperature of 180 F.  The plastic would be much
easier to convert as well.  You can get these through McMaster along with
the SS if you got the $$$$.

Another place you might try is Freund Container (www.freundcan.com).  They
have all kinds of glass, plastic, and metal containers (no affiliation,
yada), but I don't have a feel for how competitive they will be on price.
Good luck!

Dennis Collins
Knoxville TN



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:41:00 -0400
From: "Eric R. Tepe" <erictepe at fuse.net>
Subject: Beer and Sweat 2001

Hear Ye, Hear Ye,

Ladies and Gentlemen START YOUR BREW KETTLES!! This is the first official
announcement for Beer and Sweat 2001, the nation's first and only keg
competition. This is a BJCP judged event and is the most unique event of
it's kind. All styles will be admitted and judged, but only if they come in
the following: a sankey keg, a corney keg, a beer ball, party pig or mini
keg. NO TWO LITER BOTTLES WILL BE ACCEPTED THIS YEAR!  The event is being
held at the Ramada Inn in Florence, KY and rooms are available at a special
rate of $65.00. You will want to stay if you are sampling all of the great
beers, and there will be many. Last year Wes Raynor won with his Raspberry
Forign export stout making it two years in a row that SODZ of Columbus, OH
won BOS. Who will win this year? It could be you, but only if you enter.
There will be a great raffle and the event will be held rain or shine as it
will be held in the Ramada Ballroom and adjoining outside area. Entry is
only $5 for the first entry and $3 for each additional. If you have any
questions please contact me at erictepe at fuse.net or go to www.hbd.org/bloat
to see the announcement.

Eric Tepe
Beer and Sweat Organizer 2001




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:58:24 -0700
From: RoyRudy <royrudy at nvbell.net>
Subject: DREAM mash tun

>>Now that I got your attention - I need help!  I need a stainless 55 gallon
Drum or larger for my DREAM mash tun!  Other than Mc Master - any
suggestions?  I want to mash 110 1lbs at a time to make the Almighty sami
clause! - <<<<

I would find the biggest picnic cooler I believe they go up to 25 gal. Make
up the balance with extract.

Roy Rudebusch,
Retired Brewpubber



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:55:08 
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: THE DREAM MASH TUN / Brown Malt

Steve Hill asks about 55 gal drum sources for a monster tun.  A local 
(Ottawa) grape juice outfit in the Italian section of town sells off steel 
55 gal drums for $10 a pop.  The blue plastic drums are $15, perfect for a 
primary (or my case a rain barrel).  I haven't worked on the steel drums 
yet, but I suspect they're not SS as they look to be enamel coated.  
However, since these things contained juice, I'm fairly certain they're food 
grade, and would probably make a great mash tun with the right plumbing and 
insulation.  Check around at the wine/juice places in your town, you might 
find similar deals.

On the topic of brown malt for porters: I'm the unhappy owner of a mostly 
full sack of Hugh Baird brown malt. I bought it thinking I'd make a 
historically accurate porter having read about the good ol' days when brown 
malts were used as base malt, but quickly discovered this stuff is 
overpowering at more than 5% of the grist.  1/2 lb in a porter is nice.  A 
lighter carafa (the 300 lov version) would probably make a decent 
substitute, as would a very light chocolate malt (such as Pauls).  I usually 
brew my porters w/ a mix of carafa and British chocolate malts.

Cheers!
Drew Avis
http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:57:29 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Experiment merriment

Steve Hill wrote:

>Now as for the EXPERIMENT you (the masses) are going to attempt.  Sounds
>like a great Idea, but the results, are they REALLY going to matter for 99%
>of the home brewers?

I think there's more than a 1% interest in what the outcome is.  The
participation level may be less due to equipment restrictions or general
lack of interest in participation.  Even after the results are analyzed and
conclusions drawn, most people will probably continue to use what they have
at their disposal and few will change to the setup which yields more
favorable results, if any.  But I think there are more than we all may think
that are curious about the outcome.

>Now that I got you hot and bothered - GO BREW! 

Well, see, that's the beauty of this experiment.  We can gather data while
we do what we all love best - brewing.  Plus, it has the added benefit of
drinking the results.  What a hobby!

Ron La Borde wrote:

>Sometimes I brew a 10 gallon wort and split it into 2 5 gallon glass
>fermenters.  Funny thing, the ensuing action and results in each fermenter
>is different.  Now why would this be?

It just is.  You have two SIMILAR individuals but each has slightly
different variables which may effect the final outcome.  Even at the point
of splitting, they are too numerous to list entirely, but you probably hit
upon a few of them in your post.  Within your process there will always be
variability, regardless of how exacting you are in your methods.  The key to
controlling any process is to study and quantify that variability.  Then put
controls in place to reduce or limit each contributing factor.

For this proposed experiment each individual could determine their own
process variability to get a baseline, but that would take multiple trials
and we'd probably all become tired of drinking CAP - no matter how good
Jeff's recipe is ;-)  Instead the variability within similar equipment is
compared across all brewers (the noise) and that is then evaluated against
the differnces observed between the dissimilar equipment (the signals).  If
the noise can be separated statistically from the signals, then we've got
something to look at.  If not, then there is probably not much of a
measurable difference beween the two.

Now back to /normal/ homebrewing...

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"I have made this letter longer than usual,
because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:36:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Johnson <dmjohnson at pol.net>
Subject: Cranberry fermentation

The Problem with fermentations involving cranberries has been 
discussed in the Mead Lover's digest a few years back. Below is a 
quote of the post that I believe answers the concern. It refers to a 
post on the Cider Digest from Andrew Lea. Andrew is retired from the 
Long Ashton Station and has a wealth of knowlege about making cider. 
He is one of those posters that if he says something you can rest 
assured in is true. Dan McFeeley is another impeccable poster on the 
Mead Lover's Digest:

It wasn't until after I'd bottled the second batch that I discovered
that cranberries have a reputation of being difficult to ferment!
I read this in the April '98 issue of _Fruit Winemaking Quarterly_
which had a reprint of a Cider Digest post by Andrew Lea giving some
advice on the source of the problem and how to work with it.

According to Andrew, it has been widely believed that cranberry juice
contains approx. 100 ppm of benzoic acid, which would inhibit the
fermentation.  Apparently this has been known since 1905, according
to a reference by Charlie Nagel at Washington State University, he
said.  Some work by Andrew, however, showed that the benzoic acid
in cranberries is largely bound up in an ester compound called
vacciniin.  While it is in this state, it does not hurt the
fermentation.  A glucosidase enzyme in cranberries can act to liberate
the acid if it comes in contact with the ester, thus increasing the
levels of benzoic acid.  This would happen in instances where the
cranberries had been frozen, disrupting cell structure and allowing
the enzyme and its ester substrate to come in contact with each other.
Andrew had found that the enzyme activity can occur quickly once the
cranberries thaw.  Some thawed samples which he had tested had over
1,000 ppm of free benzoic acid.

Andrew's advice was to be aware of the processing history of any
cranberries used for fermentation.  Pasteurization would denature
the enzyme and prevent it from acting to raise benzoic acid levels.
Buying fresh berries that had not been frozen would also seem to
be a good way to avoid problems.  Interestingly, the cranberries
I used for my melomel had been frozen, but the melomel had still
fermented with no problems.  I had checked the pH before adding the
yeast and made an adjustment with calcium carbonate after finding
that it was too low.  More than likely, in raising the pH to a
more acceptable level, I had also neutralized the benzoic acid
in the cranberries, allowing the fermentation to proceed without
any difficulties.

Hope this is helpful!


<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley at keynet.net

Here is the URL for the thread search:

http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:80/Beer/Threads/Threads/thread.971909573
 .html#14

and Andrew's cider page:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/content2.htm

It is My feeling that the benzoic acid levels are usually not enough 
to stop a really rollicking fermentation and if the fruit or juice is 
added once fermentation is really going. I usually freeze and thaw my 
fruit before adding it to the secondary. I feel this helps liberate 
flavor from the fruit, but I suspect that also leads to some benzoic 
acid production.

I also would suggest that when questions regarding fermenting with 
spices or fruit arise, there is a lot to be learned in the archives of 
the Mead Lovers Digest.

Dave Johnson

"Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury 
to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink-- under any 
circumstances."
 - Mark Twain's Notebook



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Regent <regent at newsguy.nospam.com>
Subject: re: Siphon induced contamination

Steven Parfitt suggests that a $36 pump is a good investment to prevent
contamination from 'mouth starting' syphons.

Another method is by using a 2" section of rigid plastic tubing that you can
sanitize, and then insert into your syphon hose. You use your mouth to start
the syphon, and then remove the tube. Your lips never touch anything that beer
will flow through. A much cheaper, simpler solution.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:43:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Johnson <dmjohnson at pol.net>
Subject: Suggestion for MCAB recipes

I do want to thank those who took the trouble to post MCAB winning 
recipes here. My problem will be a few months from now when I want to 
brew a recipe that was here that I lacked the forsight to save a copy.

Would it make sense to suggest the brewers post their recipes to the 
Gambrinus Mug recipe collection. Few Recipes there have any objective 
tasting comments and it would be nice to be able to have them 
Organized by style.

Two Posts in one day!

I am out of control.

David Johnson

I love a drink, but I never encouraged drunkenness by harping on its 
alleged funny side.
 - quoted in Abroad with Mark Twain and Eugene Field, Fisher 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:53:34 -0400
From: "Donnie Lee" <dlee at accurateonline.com>
Subject:  Brewing/Beer Portal Prototype


I've began working on a beer portal (not for profit). I'm hoping to do my
part is spreading the passion of brewing and drinking beer.

My prototype (a work in progress) is open for the public to have a look at.
I invite you to come take a look. I am also in search of volunteer editors
and contributors. Please send me email or post to the Web site. Please read
the first news article for more info.

The URL:
http://beer.wha.la

Hope to see you there.

Kind Regards,

Donnie Lee



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:26:12 -0700
From: Steve Casselman <sc at vcc.com>
Subject: AHA BOA Election Results


			AHA BOA ELECTION RESULTS
	The Board Of Advisors wishes to thank all those that voted for this fine
group of Candidates. The newest members of the Board are;

George DePiro
Jeffrey Donovan
Mike Hall
Dave Houseman
Susan Ruud
Mark Tumarkin

	The Board especially wishes to thank all of the Candidates. Their
willingness to serve the Members of the AHA Board of Advisors is just
further evidence of their continuing devotion to hombrewing and homebrewers.

Steve Casselman
Acting Chair,
AHABOA



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:44:46 +0200
From: Hubert Hanghofer <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>
Subject: geometrical datapoint update

Hi all,

in HBD #3641 I posted about my split ferment of pale ale. To my surprise the 
difference in apparent extract today was 0.9 Plato (almost 4 SG units) so I 
thought an update would be interesting for those who need motivation. 

Details summarized:

May 18, 20:30	OG 13.1P 16C
(under)pitched with 2L aerobically grown starter from a WYEAST #1056 slant.

		fermenter - extract (Plato) - Temp (Celsius)
		mostfass (barrel)	cornelius keg
=========================================================
May 19, 23:30	batch split at high krausen, 17C
		liquid level in both fermenters about 2/3

May 23, 20:30	5.7P	17C		5.8P	16C

May 25, 18:00	4.3P	17.5C		5.2P	17.5C

Visual inspection: The turbidity of the cornelius ferment still corresponds 
with the barrel. The cornelius sample clearly was CO2 supersaturated!

The May 23 samples were rejoined and force fermented. Terminal gravity seems 
to arrive at 2.8 Plato.

This are the unbiased measurements and observations. I'm analytical chemist 
and make a living by doing this stuff. As any human being I make errors, but 
I feel very confident with that numbers and think you can put some weight on 
it.

BUT IT'S STILL JUST ONE SINGLE DATAPOINT!

Now the speculative part (my personal interpretations / hypothesis):

During the most active phase of fermentation (high krausen) geometry has no 
effect except it may amplify temperature differences that are primarily 
caused by fermentation volume (thermal mass, thermal time constant).

Once fermentation slows down, fluid dynamics and thus fermenter geometry play 
a role. Note that a "production grade yeast" (yeast that has been managed and 
repitched in a timely manner) may metabolize maltotriose from the beginning 
and thus not show this effect (slowing down) - but such a yeast is not what 
we homebrewers usually have at hand.

However I've no doubt that the (...this) cornelius ferment will arrive at the 
same terminal gravity sooner or later. Most of the time I rack green (with 
residual fermentables) into cornies and some bottles - and always achieve the 
pre-calculated pressure build up (= carbonation level = terminal gravity).

But in any case - the measured difference during "tired fermentation" could 
yield a statistically significant effect - especially in a lager 
fermentation! So keep up and be confident, you may get more than fun out of 
your experiment.

Hope this helps,
Allzeit gut Sud!

Hubert Hanghofer
Salzburg, Austria
www.netbeer.co.at



It was nice to hear from a highly esteemed brewer that a valuable piece of my 
home (Weisse yeast) is still maintained and appreciated on the other side of 
the big pond. Some day I'll find my way to the pump station and sample your 
brews, George.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:03:50 -0400
From: "George de Piro" <george at evansale.com>
Subject: FWH post clarification

Hello all,

Fred ponders some stuff about my post about the Brauwelt paper that
investigates the effects of time of hop addition on hop aroma.  He writes:

"It is not clear when the measurements were made RELATIVE to the hop
ADDITIONS.  Or were these all different brews with a SINGLE hop addition at
the various times cited?"

Each hop addition represents a beer made with only that hop addition.  They
don't tell the precise time of the addition, other than to say beginning,
middle or end of boil, but more precise times aren't critical to
interpreting the results. (Only "middle of boil" is ambiguous, anyway.)

The measurements were done on the finished beers.

I hope that clears things up, have fun!

George de Piro

C.H. Evans Brewing Company
at the Albany Pump Station
(518)447-9000
www.EvansAle.com

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
Homebrew Club
http://hbd.org/mbas




Return to table of contents

---

HTML-ized on 05/26/01, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96