---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Protecting Hops from the Beatles ("Brad McMahon")
  Re: Head retention in keg - Summary and thanks (mark dickeson)
  hops in Blackberry Stout (leavitdg)
  growing hops (Steven)
  Re: Calories? (Jeff Renner)
  Montreal ("Ken Miller.")
  RE:TSP in carboys ("Pete Calinski")
  Phil's beach glass & TSP (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com>
  Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes (Jeff Renner)
  calories in beer (ensmingr)
  re. CAP and Cream ale recipes: part 2 ("Darryl Newbury")
  Calories in beer ("Echols, Brent")
  H2O2 bubbles ("Dr. Pivo")
  Calorie Calculator (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  quality dry lager yeast ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  RE: BarleyCrusher Malt Mill (Steve Funk)
  RE: 5 Star snake oil? (Brian Lundeen)
  re:  Wyeast quest.'s ("Kensler, Paul")
  re:  Cara Pils Malt ("Kensler, Paul")
  Tygon tubing source? ("Gary Smith")
  growing hops & trimming "vines" ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Conversions ("Gary Smith")
  LONG Soak In B-Brite ("Bob Poirier")


* 
* 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA
* June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more 
* information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig!
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:25:32 +0930
From: "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Protecting Hops from the Beatles

Darrell wrote in HBD #670:

>Question: Protecting Hops from Beatles?

>I have a real nice bush of East Kent Goldings...they are 
>now over 6 feet high...and I would like to use them this
>year...but how do I prevent rose beatles from eating them?

OK, once a comedian, always a comedian. It's what us Aussies
are good for!

Which of the Beatles have infested them, George, Paul or Ringo?
The ghost of John?
In any case playing some Rolling Stones to your hop plants
might work but then you might have a problem with Mick, Keith
and Charlie.

Although I actually do grow hops, I have never had a problem
with *beetle* infestations, so I hope someone else has 
a solution to your problem!

Cheers, 

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:05:47 +0930 (CST)
From: mark dickeson <markd at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Head retention in keg - Summary and thanks

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Hagey wrote:

> 
> I don't see you mentioning any shaking or rolling of the keg.  If you are
> mearly placing the pressurized CO2 on the top of your beer, it will take a
> long time to disolve into your product.  Try putting the 30psi on a chilled
> keg then rolling it around the kitchen for a few minutes.  Then repeat the
> process two or three times.  Release the excess pressure and serve at your
> normal pressure.  Saves a few days and really allows that CO2 to be disolved
> into your yummy product.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Jim
> Beer and loafing in Kalamazoo
> 


I also received similar posts from Chris Overbeek and Robert Rumph on
this as well. Thanks all round to you guys, this is a great and helpful
list.
Cheers.

- -- 
mark
        	(this insert has a protective coating)
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a rock.
                -- Wynn Catlin



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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:46:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: hops in Blackberry Stout

the hops used were: 1 oz Hallertau (~5%) after 30 min of boil, another
oz of same after 60 min,...full 90 minute boil.

 ..Darrell


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:32:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: growing hops


Howdy gang,

 Does anyone have any experience growing hops in the deep south
(central/northern Alabama/Georgia). I've got parents into gardening and a
nice plot of space. 

 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

  Democrats - Give a man a fish, feed him for a day
  Republicans - Teach a man to fish, feed him for life
  Libertarians - Screw him, I'm full from eating fish 




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:32:50 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Calories?

John Thompson of Baton Rouge, LA <jthomp6 at lsu.edu> asked:

>how does one figure calories based on SG and FG? It seems to
>me that the recipe would also impact calorie content. In other words, could
>two beers -- say a porter and a bock -- have the same SG and FG, but
>different calorie contents?

I knew I saved this old stuff for a reason.  Here is a 1995 r.c.b. 
post from Marc de Jonge in the Netherlands (I wonder what he's doing 
these days) in answer to exactly this question.  I can't vouch for 
its accuracy, but Marc always seemed to be a very accurate sort of 
fellow.  A geophysicist, apparently.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From: dejonge at geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: The numbers (was: How many calories in a homebrew???)
Date: 17 Jul 1995 20:31:17 GMT
Organization: Geophysics department, Utrecht University
Reply-To: dejonge at geof.ruu.nl

<snip>
Well here are the numbers calculated using the EBC formula.

Numbers are kcal/33cl (~12 oz bottle) , FG horizontal, OG vertical.

  F.G.>| 1006 1008 1010 1012 1014 1016 1018 1020 1022 1024 1026 |
  O.G. |--------------------------------------------------------|
  1030 |   76   77   78   79   80   81   81   82   83   84   85 |
  1035 |   91   92   93   94   94   95   96   97   98   99  100 |
  1040 |  106  106  107  108  109  110  111  112  113  114  115 |
  1045 |  120  121  122  123  124  125  126  127  128  128  129 |
  1050 |  135  136  137  138  139  140  141  141  142  143  144 |
  1055 |  150  151  152  153  154  155  155  156  157  158  159 |
  1060 |  165  166  167  168  168  169  170  171  172  173  174 |
  1065 |  180  181  182  182  183  184  185  186  187  188  189 |
  1070 |  195  196  197  197  198  199  200  201  202  203  204 |
  1075 |  210  211  211  212  213  214  215  216  217  218  219 |
  1080 |  225  226  226  227  228  229  230  231  232  233  233 |
  1085 |  240  240  241  242  243  244  245  246  247  248  248 |
  1090 |  255  255  256  257  258  259  260  261  262  262  263 |
       |--------------------------------------------------------|

- -------------
Marc de Jonge         (dejonge at geof.ruu.nl)
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:54:23 -0400
From: "Ken Miller." <kgmiller2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Montreal


I'm going to Montreal in July to see my beloved Red Sox and would like 
to drink some good beer while I'm there.  Any recommendations for 
breweries or brewpubs.  Do Molson or Labatts do anything special?

Thanks.
Ken






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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:04:14 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: RE:TSP in carboys

A few years ago I made up a TSP solution and filled a carboy with it to
clean it.  I got busy and forgot that I didn't rinse it out.  Months later,
as I emptied the carboy (I normally leave them full of a bleach solution), I
felt the telltale oily texture of TSP.  I don't remember the concentration
but it was whatever the box recommended.  I guess I was lucky because there
was no sign of any damage to the carboy.  YMMV.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


Opps, disregard this post, I never did that.  TSP is banned in NY.



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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:25:25 -0400
From: "Moyer, Douglas (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com>
Subject: Phil's beach glass & TSP

Well, since TSP etches glass when used at higher temp/higher
concentrations/longer contact time, then it seems like the thing to use to
"beachify" your Coke bottles.


Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity


p.s. if your beer is not bitter enough, expose it to posts from Steve & Del.
That ought to do it...




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:24:58 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes

"Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> wrote:

>Is the Part 1 recipe for the CAP or the cream ale?  Since the yeast is lager
>yeast, I'm guessing it's the CAP.  Does this mean that the Cream Ale recipe
>is forthcoming, and does it use ale yeast?

Part 2 addresses this - a Classic American Cream Ale is just a CAP 
fermented with ale yeast.  It may be lagered if you have the 
facilities - it is historic and does mellow the ale.  A non-classic 
cream ale, that is to say, a more modern version, would be hopped 
below about 15-20 IBU.  My basic CAP recipe makes a really nice cream 
ale.

>What about using flaked corn and
>rice rather than grits/meal?  Would you still need the cereal mash?  Any
>reason to use one over the other?

Flakes work fine and are less work because you just throw them into 
the mash.  I think I mentioned that you can simplify things even 
further with a single rest.  But as Greg Remake wrote, cereal mashes 
are fun and give a richer flavor, at least based on the rich smell of 
the cereal mash as it cooks.

A tip to avoid scorching the cereal mash - use more water than my 
Zymurgy/Big Brew recipe called for - there was a slip-up somewhere on 
my part.  1.5 quarts per pound of corn and 2 for rice.  Stir 
frequently, especially as you bring it to a boil.  I have found that 
a wire trivet between the electric element of my stove and the pot 
helps a great deal.

Rice gives (IMO) a more neutral flavor than corn.  Medium or short 
grain rice is apparently better than long grain.  Grind it (a roller 
mill is problematic - a Corona works great) to get pieces about 1 mm 
in size.  Of course, you'll also get lots of smaller pieces. 
Overcooking can lead to lautering problems, according to Wahl and 
Henius.  They recommend 25-30 minutes, as I recall.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:56:49 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: calories in beer

In HBD 3670 (
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3670.html#3670-2 ), John
Thompson asked about calories in beer. You need look no
further than the HBD itself! See my web page:
http://hbd.org/ensmingr/ .

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:47:52 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com>
Subject: re. CAP and Cream ale recipes: part 2

I think that Jeff Renner's comments on yeast choice for Cream Ales is
accurate. I've just kegged my CCCA for a summer barbeque here in Toronto
in which Jeff will be our esteemed guest. The CAP that was brewed by Rob
Jones and Jeff Renner at the Great Canadian Homebrew Conference on
National Homebrew Day will be tapped for the occasion! 

The Cream Ale I brewed is fermented with White Labs WLP029 German
Ale/Kolsch and had a TG of 1006 from a wort with an aprox. 1050 OG. And my
taste suggests that it would be a bit dryer and more lager-like than the
style has been described to be as being. I often use White Labs WPL008
East Coast Ale and would think that it would probably be a good choice for
the style (as long as the mason jar that you are carrying the slurry in
doesnt end up in shattered pieces on the sidewalk after a night at the
pub, of course). 

I was wondering about your suggestion for using the Molson yeast, via the
Yeast Culture Kit Company. Molson Export Ale, which assumably would use
the yeast doesn't, in my mind, have a "distinctive Canadian character", or
much character at all. Maybe at one point, and possibly in the too distant
past, Canadian Ales would of have had "character" to them, I recall as a
kid Labatt 50 having character (and I think it was more than just a
child's tastebuds) but now despite being an ale it seems to have no more
character than the multitude of other beers brewed by the big two
breweries here. Do you want to describe what a "distinctive Canadian
character" is?

Cheers Darryl Newbury
Toronto, ON



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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:36:27 -0700
From: "Echols, Brent" <BEchols at hineshort.com>
Subject: Calories in beer

There's a great page, which just so happens to be on HBD.org regarding
calculation of calories for beers which you know the SG and FG for.  It is
http://hbd.org/ensmingr.

This page also lists the results for many popular beers.  After I found it,
I wondered why it's not in ProMash!
(us beer barons have got to watch the calories also, from time to time, eh?)

brent


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:14:00 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: H2O2 bubbles

Michael Maceyka correctly writes:


> This got me to thinking, and I recalled lectures on "The Perfect
> Enzyme," catalase.
>
Imight mention that "non-enymatically" the stuff wants to go flying
apart as well.

Easiest way to see this is to do my "sanitizer patency test". If you've
got a bucket with some dilute peroxide to clean odds and ends, and do
like I do and forget about it for a long while  (Do  NOT put a tight lid
on anything you've put the stuff in) and want to know if the stuff is
still doing it's job, or if it's gone to "water" and you'd better start
over.....

 .... dump a bit on the cement floor.   "Cement" componenets (and a large
number of other inorganics and organics), will set the stuff huffing,
sputtering,  and foaming, and you'll know if your stuff is still "good".

Dr. Pivo


>  Why H2O2 altered fermentation characteristics is strange to me, as
> yeast also have catalase
>
I'm guessing that the sudden flux of  O radicals are ripping apart cell
walls faster than the yeast can deal with it.

Yeast, in fact produce peroxide themselves, and this has been implicated
as a staling component in beers...... so they really can't even handle
their own production fast enough if put into an "over oxidised state"




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:44:44 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: Calorie Calculator

Greetings, all.

John Thompson is asking about calories, and how to calculate them. We have
such a tool on our club's website at this url:
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/tools/ac.htm. I didn't design it -
all due credit goes to AABG, and James Hackbarth and Stephen Klump of the
Stroh's Brewing Company for the original design. I just converted it to
Javascript.

Sorry John, I don't know about commercial beers.

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
36:30:8 N, 82:31:57 W
(5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E  Rennerian)
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:10:43 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: quality dry lager yeast


In a superb post on CACAS and CAPS Jeff Renner writes "Quality dry true
lager yeasts are on the near horizon."

They are here!  Saflager S-23 is a great yeast, somewhat like Wyeast 2247,
performs well at 12C and retains its lager characteristics at the warmer end
as well, making it an alternative for the cooler 2112 temps 13C-17C.

We're also looking at S-189, currently available only in 500gm units...

cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:03:26 -0700
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: RE: BarleyCrusher Malt Mill

Greg Remake asked about anyone's experiences using the BarleyCrusher Malt
Mill.  I bought one ($99 + s/h) and am totally enamored with it.  I used
to rely on the HB shop to crush for me, now I buy sacks of grain and
mill it as I use it.  This has cut my grain bill costs dramatically.  As
for the mill, it came preset at 0.045" which I verified with a feeler
gauge.  I can adjust it easily by loosening the set screws and turning
the adjuster knob.  I personally like to hand crank my grain, but the
handle easily slips off and any 3/8" or larger drill can be utilized.
The crush comes out great as far as I can tell.  I'm getting
efficiencies in the range of 80% in my 10 gallon batch set up
(rectangular cooler with a Bazooka screen).  The mill has a large hopper
that holds more than 2 pounds of grain and is mounted on a board
designed to fit on top of a 5 gallon bucket.  For the money, I give it
two thumbs up!  No affiliations, yada, yada, yada.
Steve
Stevenson, WA



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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:11:32 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: 5 Star snake oil?

Nathaniel P. Lansing writes:

>  Then there was something about how acid washing isn't even effective
> at sanitizing a yeast culture, and Five Star(r) has people 
> believing their
> solution of phosphoric acid and soap destroys beer spoilage
> organisms. Ho Ho Ho, how gullible the buying public is.
>
Whoa, back up, what??!!! I must have missed this but it sounds like somebody
(Del, Steve?) is saying Star San doesn't work? Now I've used Star San for
quite a while and my beers taste ... never mind about me. Our local brewpub
uses an acid-based sanitizer and their beers are ... ummm, well, infected.
OK, maybe not the best example to quote.

But in all seriousness, I've never heard of anyone who uses Star San
complaining about infection problems. What's the deal here?

Cheers
Brian


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:40:06 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: re:  Wyeast quest.'s

Regarding the Wyeast problems and questions...

I've heard it said that the proper way to smack the pack is to really spank
it swiftly to break open the inner pouch...  just pressing on it until it
pops may sometimes just create a small hole in the inner pouch and inhibit
mixing of the yeast and wort.  Plus, shaking the heck out of the pouch helps
too - you want to mix the yeast up really good in case its been sitting on a
store shelf and all floc'ed out.

As far as personal experience goes, I've had good luck with Wyeast (I'm in
the "spank it hard" category).  I've used their smack packs dozens of times,
and I've only had one bad pack (which was replaced for free by the store I
bought it from).  In fact, a couple months ago I bought a pack of the Wyeast
Irish ale yeast and smacked it at the store during a lunch break - it was
fully swollen by the time I got home from work that day and I was forced to
make a step-up starter right away for fear the pack would burst!

If you've had repeated problems with Wyeast, perhaps it's the store?...  I
wonder if they mishandle the yeast shipments (leave them out in the sun or
something equally stupid) or don't turn them over often enough so that
you're always buying an old pack?  Obviously the pack should be incubated
somewhere at room temperature (68-72F), and not cold.

This isn't a veiled Wyeast commercial; I use and am happy with White Labs
too.  I'm just a happy user of both (but I've been loving the free coupons
that White Labs has been sending to homebrew competitions for award
prizes!!).


Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:06:51 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: re:  Cara Pils Malt

In response to Nathan Kanous' comments about recipes calling for Carapils,
flaked adjuncts etc. to be steeped...

As far as carapils in particular goes...  I'd always heard that it was
malted similarly to crystal and does NOT need to be mashed...  does this
perhaps vary by maltster?

But in general, for non-converted malts and all unmalted adjuncts, I agree -
bad idea, with no enzymes to convert the starches.  And I see it all the
time in recipes, especially in magazines.  But it astounds me how much
apprehension over "mashing" there is with extract-only brewers.  If a brewer
can steep specialty grains, they can do a genuine minimash.  Instead of
steeping only some dark malts for their stout, they can steep some dark
malts, some flaked oats and some 2-row and do a genuine minimashed oatmeal
stout with no additional equipment and only a minor investment in effort
(larger amounts of grain to work with, keeping more careful control of the
temperature).  So what if the extract efficiency isn't 80%?!  Its easy and
it works.  I'm surprised that I don't see more magazines emphasizing that
"mashing" on its simplest level, is just "steeping" with enzymatic malt.
When you're working with small minimash volumes, where the extract makes up
the bulk of the fermentables, all the geeky factors like mash temperature,
fermentability, protein rests, etc. are all irrelevant.


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD




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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:17:46 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Tygon tubing source?

Hi all,

I'm trying to find an inexpensive tygon tubing source for my 
peristaltic pump. It uses about anything with a 1/4" wall thickness. 
It came with a 5/8" OD & 3/8" ID which pumps at 2L/min

but if I get a 3/4" OD & 1/2" ID it will pump at 3.3L/min

Either of these tubings will do a nice job of transferring from primary 
to secondary or for sparging. (with a speed control I bet it will bottle 
nicely too...).

I called Tygon and they're kindly sending me a 2' sample of each 
( R-3603 ) & I could use these pieces & put a quick disconnect on 
each end & attach food grade tubing for the extra lengths I need 
but I'd like to get some longer & continuous tygon pieces so I can 
just change tubing depending on my needs & have less to break 
apart & sanitize... 

The OTC cost of this stuff is out of sight.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,



 
Gary

Gary Smith
http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you. This is the principal difference
between a dog and a man.

 - Mark Twain -


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:37:24 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: growing hops & trimming "vines"

Hello,

I'm trying to grow hops, in East Tennessee of all places.  
While I don't expect any real yield, not now nor ever, the
things are growing pretty well.  I had read that you should
only let 1-3 vines grow from each rhizome, basically pruning
out the smaller ones.  Well, my vines have kind of started
multiplying - each one is putting out little growths that are
starting to take on a life of their own.  Should I train these
up the same cord, or should I prune them out as well?
As a very novice gardener, can anyone tell me why you
need to prune them at all?

thanks!
Tom Karnowski



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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:02:23 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Conversions

How-d from beautiful Downtown Highland, IN,

I've been looking for some conversion ratios and haven't found them 
anywhere as of yet. 

The ratio's I'm thinking of deal with the conversion between a pound 
of dry extract & liquid extract and it's counterpart in grain.

I've seen so many interesting recipe's that are devoted to extract or 
malt but how can I make a viable exchange between 8 pounds of 
dry malt and Schrier 2 row Belgian pale grain?

Or 8 pounds of Bries malt & 2 row?

I've done a pretty exhaustive Google search & even scoured 
Papazian's book but if the answer is in there. I've missed it.

Clues appreciated & thanks!


Gary

Gary Smith

http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/


"I have more talent in my smallest fart than you 
have in your entire body"

 - Walter Matthau to Barbara Streisand 
(off camera while making "Hello Dolly") -


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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:41:50 -0700
From: "Bob Poirier" <bpoirierjr at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: LONG Soak In B-Brite

Greetings.

A few weeks ago I made up a bottle-cleaning solution using B-Brite at
1-tablespoon/gallon and dumped in a bunch of 22-oz bottles.  Earlier
this evening I found these bottles where I'd left them all those LONG
weeks ago - still soaking in the B-Brite solution.  Of course, some water
had evaporated, and over time a bunch of white rings had formed around
the necks of the bottles.  Also, I discovered a thin white coating (almost
like paint over-spray) on all the bottles after removing them from the
solution and allowing them to dry.  Unfortunately I've also found the same
white rings and coating on the inside of all the bottles.

I tried washing a few of the bottles with dish detergent, but after drying
the
white mess remains.  Should I try soaking the bottles in a fresh batch of
hot B-Brite solution, or should I use some other cleaner, maybe something
a lot stronger??

Thanks in advance for any and all help/advice.

Bob Poirier, aka Bubba on Skot's BRC
East Haven, CT




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