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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: All Grain (Mike Uchima)
  strain (leavitdg)
  rusty couplings ("Steve Haun")
  Re: Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em... ("Curt Abert")
  Re: All Grain (Jeff Renner)
  Clone recipe, was: Re: What do YOU have? Cheer 'em on! (Jeff Renner)
  Re: calories, methane, etc. (Jeff Renner)
  UPS shipping woes - followup (LJ Vitt)
  Some all-grain Q's (Frank Tutzauer)
  Re: Oxygenating/timing (smurman)
  Re: All Grain (Marcie5295)
  Re: Temperature unevenness in mash (stencil)
  Robots  Re: Link, what link? ("bsmnt")
  American beer month? (Spencer W Thomas)


*
* July is American Beer Month! Drink American Beer.
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:33:54 -0500
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: All Grain

"Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> sez:

> Getting ready to brew my first all grain recipe and have to ask a few
> questions. Should be a rather exciting time at the Fry household on
> Saturday.

Whoo-hoo!  Welcome to the next level. :-)

> 1. Should I strain the liquor from the mash/tun before I start the boil?

What kind of lautering setup do you plan to use?  In general, you should
simply recirculate the first gallon or so of runoff back through the
grain bed... this will do a very good job of filtering out
particulates.  Better than any strainer.

> 2. Whats up with the "Cold Break" and do I strain that?

Cold break is proteins and other stuff that precipitates out when the
wort is cooled.  No need to be concerned... it actually contains
nutrients that will help your yeast.

> 3. Should I use more grain than necessary on my first couple runs until I
> get my efficiency up to par?

Probably.  The only negative is that you may end up overshooting your
OG, if your efficiency is better than expected.  But you can always
water it down at bottling time, or leave it as-is and have stronger
beer!

> 4. last but not least- When I sparge, is it kosher to press the grain bed to
> gain the excess juice in the boiler?

I'd recommend against doing this.  By the end of the sparge, there
should be relatively little sugar remaining anyway; and you'll probably
flush a fair amount of particulates into your boil by doing this.

> Thanks for any response; personal or public.
> P.S. any good starter grain recopies?

What would you like to brew?

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==



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Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:19:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: strain

Colby;

  You DON'T want to strain...what happens is that as you get to the 
last of your hot liquor (sparge water..I use about 6 gal  at  175F) the 
gravity drops...and as this happens you get more chances of extracting
tannins, and harsh flavors from the grain..most believe that as 
the specific gravity approaches 1.01  you should stop and leave the
watery stuff behind...I usually stop the sparge at around 1.02  and just
use more grain if I am concerned that I'd not extracting enough...

 Yes, you could use a bit more grain...a pound or 2 just for the heck of
it..

 And, no, please don't press the grain bed...this will cause you to get
the draff/ crap pieces of grain that you'd rather leave behind...after all,
this is one of the purposes of the sparge...

 I'll let others speak to the cold break...

Happy Brewing!
 ...Darrell




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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:52:42 -0500
From: "Steve Haun" <haunbag at home.com>
Subject: rusty couplings

Several months ago I had stainless couplings welded into two sankey kegs.
Last week I noted what appears to be rust inside the coupling, between the 2
sets of threads.  I tried removing with a toothbrush and Bar Keepers Friend
but was unsuccessful.  Any thoughts as to how I can remove this?  Should I
even try to remove it?

Steve Haun
Sioux Falls, SD




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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:28:19 -0500
From: "Curt Abert" <abert at jokulhlaup.isgs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em...

Hi All,

Pat asks what we have in our fridges.  Since I'm down to
my last 2.5 kegs of homebrew for the summer, I've been
supporting my favorite regional breweries.  Currently I have:

Bell's Oberon Ale (Kalamazoo, MI)
Goose Island Honker's Ale (Chicago, IL),
New Glarus Edel Pils and Uf Da Bock (New Glarus, WI),
Gray's Pale Ale (Janesville, WI)
Boulevard Pale Ale and Bully! porter (Kansas City, MO)

I'm with Pat...  Let's hear if for regional breweries!  If they
didn't exist, there would only be megaswill (and homebrew)!

Curt Abert
Champaign, IL


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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:48:31 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: All Grain

"Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> asks for advice on his first all grain

First, Colby, unasked-for advice (always the most dangerous to give) 
 - find someone who has done it and ask him (or perhaps her) if you 
can brew with him some time.  However, since you want to brew 
Saturday, then see if that brewer can come by to brew with you.  It 
would have helped, of course, if you had let us know where you are 
(is pa.net in Pennsylvania, or the Pacific?).  There might be a 
brewer nearby who would help out if only he knew.

And read all you can.  For starters, check out John Palmer's online 
book http://www.howtobrew.com/, especially Section 3 - Brewing Your 
First All-Grain Beer.

>1. Should I strain the liquor from the mash/tun before I start the boil?

I think you're asking if you should complete the runoff before 
starting the boil.  Not necessary - you can keep a running boil 
throughout the runoff (also called lauter).  That way, when you 
finish the runoff, you have a boil going.  Saves some time.

>2. Whats up with the "Cold Break" and do I strain that?

Cold break is the haziness that forms when you chill your wort.  It 
will settle out, but don't worry about it now.  Hot break forms when 
you boil the wort, and if you can leave that behind, it's a good 
idea.  How you do this depends on how you chill your wort.

>3. Should I use more grain than necessary on my first couple runs until I
>get my efficiency up to par?

Probably not a bad idea.

>4. last but not least- When I sparge, is it kosher to press the grain bed to
>gain the excess juice in the boiler?

NO!  It will be cloudy and probably have a higher level of harsh 
tasting stuff (sorry to use scientific terms on a beginner).  You 
should keep sparging as you runoff, although there's nothing wrong 
with stopping the sparge a little before you collect all your sweet 
wort.  But I don't like to let the grain bed run dry very much.  I've 
tasted the last runnings when I drain the mash kettle/lauter tun and 
it's always harsh.

BTW, at the beginning of the runoff, before you even start sparging, 
you should recirculate your wort until it tuns fairly clear.

>Thanks for any response; personal or public.
>P.S. any good starter grain recopies?

See John's Section 4 - Formulating Recipes and Solutions.

How about a nice American brown ale?  10% medium (40-60L) crystal, 3% 
chocolate, balance pale malt, hop 25-30 IBU (see Glen Tinseth's 
bitterness calculator http://realbeer.com/hops/bcalc_js.html) with 
your favorite hops, maybe Cascade.

Good luck.

On - and did I suggest, read all you can and find an experienced 
brewer if you can.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:14:07 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Clone recipe, was: Re: What do YOU have? Cheer 'em on!

Jerry "Beaver" Pelt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>, who we can deduce lives in 
or near Madison, WI, writes of local breweries

>New Glarus Brewery in it's
>namesake town and Capitol brewery in Madison WI. The
>New Glarus Uf Da Bock and Capitol's Amber are tops on
>my hit parade.
<snip>
>I also want to second the comment about buying micros
>along with making your own. A lot of my homebrews have
>been made because I liked a specific micro and looked
>for a recipe to copy it.

I agree, and to tie your two comments together, I tried New Glarus' 
Spotted Cow Farmhouse Ale several years ago when visiting my sister 
in WI and was really pleased with this unassuming bottle conditioned 
cream ale (at least, that's what I would categorize it as).  There 
are some hints as to its makeup on the label, including corn and 
flaked barley.

I brewed up a pretty successful clone then, and just this week I 
brewed another for my niece's wedding up in Mosinee, WI.  Here are 
the basics:

For 7.75 gallons (30 liters, 1/4 bbl) at 1.046 (2/3's for 5 gallons):

Low alkalinity, low sulfate water (as for Pilsner)

6 lbs. Briess 6-row (2-row would work fine)
1.75 lbs Durst Vienna
6 oz. DWC Caravienne (any 20L crystal would work fine)
2.25 lbs flaked maize
1 lbs. flaked barley

Mash at 151F (66C), mashout at 170F (76C).

All Crystal hops  at  4.5% (very arbitrary choice, I had some that smelled nice):

First Wort Hops - 0.8 oz ~8 IBU (but how to figure FWH?)
Bittering hops - 1.6 oz. ~16 IBU - 1 hr.
Flavor hops 0.4 oz, ~1 IBU 10 minutes
No finish hops - musta forgot

Irish moss - 15 minutes.

White Labs American Ale Yeast WPL001 (equivalent to Wyeast 1056)

I haven't tasted this year's version - it's still in the primary, but 
the wort was a pretty gold (~4L?), softly malty with mild bitterness. 
And, despite the single step infusion and flaked barley, perfectly 
clear, probably thanks to the Irish moss.

I'll be kegging this, but the original is a cloudy, bottle conditioned brew.

Hope some of you brewers will try this nice, easy drinking but not bland ale.

Jeff


- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: calories, methane, etc.

"Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> writes

>1/100th of the basic unit of length (a centimeter)... make a lilttle box
>that size and you get one "cc". That is the same as 1/100th of the basic
>unit for volume (a millilitre)

Now we "Mer'cans are notably metrically challenged, but isn't a ml a 
1/1000 of the basic unit of volume, the liter (or litre), not 1/100th?

>Indeed, how nice it is to say: "Let's make one cc (or ml., or gm.) of
>water, get heated one degree, and we will define that as out basic unit
>of energy (a calorie)".
>
>I suppose if you are measuring motors in "dynes" then a "joule" is a
>handy unit to have.... but in "life processes" I'd sure hate to loose
>the "calorie".

Just to clarify, when we refer to calories in food, or beer, we are 
referring to kilocalories, or kcal, right?

Now for the extra credit take home question:

How many kcals in a fart?  Do an energy balance for the caloric 
differences between a beer fart and a sauerkraut fart.  Show your 
calculations on the back of a beer label.  Show the Krebs cycle of a 
gut bacterium.

Enough of this silliness.  Doc was at least writing in the evening, 
with the possible excuse of having consumed some beer calories.  I 
don't even have that excuse at this hour of the morning.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: UPS shipping woes - followup


In HBD#3678 Dean Fikar <dfikar at swbell.net> told us his solution to UPS refusing
 to ship his entries.  

I ran into the same problem when I was sending to 2nd round AHA in 1999.
Since I declared I had glass, they needed to inspect the packaging.  Finding
beer bottles, they went on to say they can't ship it.

I found a hardware store that takes UPS packages.  Their hours a more
convenient
than UPS, open 7 days a week and charge $1 above the UPS charge.  They don't
even ask for the contents.  Since then, they get all of my UPS shipments.

 - Leo Vitt



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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:58:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Some all-grain Q's

Colby's getting ready to start his first all-grain.

Colby, you'll get lots of good replies on this, but since traffic's down on
the digest, here's my take:

>1. Should I strain the liquor from the mash/tun before I start the boil?

The liquor will be "strained" by the grain bed; you do not need to add an
extra straining step.  Just recirculate the first coupla quarts until it
runs fairly clear, and then sparge away.  You can either direct the runoff
straight into your kettle, or into an intermediate vessel -- e.g., when I
brew in the kitchen I can't get my lauter tun up high enough, so I direct
the runoff into a pitcher which I then transfer to the kettle.

>2. Whats up with the "Cold Break" and do I strain that?

The cold break forms upon chilling.  Immersion chiller users typically
leave most of the cold break in the kettle, counterflow users often
transfer the cold break into the fermenter along with the wort.  Don't
sweat it either way.  Whether counterflow or immersion, I recommend a short
settling period to let the break and hop crud fall to the bottom, and then
syphon off the top.  But if you don't want to wait, that's ok too.

>3. Should I use more grain than necessary on my first couple runs until I
>get my efficiency up to par?

My advice is to choose a style of beer where over- or under-shooting your
gravities is not a problem.  E.g., brew a special bitter.  If your
gravity's too high call it an extra special bitter, and if it's too low
call it an ordinary bitter.  Check the gravity at the beginning of the boil
so you can adjust your hopping if necessary.

>4. last but not least- When I sparge, is it kosher to press the grain bed
>to gain the excess juice in the boiler?

Don't bother.  Most people sparge to a certain gravity or pH.  A lot of
other folks sparge to a specific volume, which is what I recommend to new
all-grainers (and is what I do myself).  Just keep sparging til you've got
six gallons of wort (for a five gallon batch).  When I do this, my final
runnings are around 1.012.  Am I getting all the sugars?  No.  Do I care?
No.

Have fun!

 --frank
 



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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: smurman at shell5.ba.best.com
Subject: Re: Oxygenating/timing


Well, I'm sure there are many variables, especially how you treat your
starters, but for myself I found that waiting 6-12 hrs before
oxygenating didn't work out too well.  My reasoning for the poor
results was that the delayed O2 dosing is recommended for pro set-ups
 - they inline oxygenate the second batch added to the fermenter about
12 hours after the first.  However, they are pitching a much larger
and healthier "starter" to begin with, while we at home usually can't
get close to what they pitch.  I'm probably on the high end of starter
volume - usually 1 gal. starters or re-pitching, but I still don't
think I keep my starter yeast in the condition the continuous cycle
pro brewers do.  Giving it a dosage of O2 initially, even if it
doesn't use it all, at least gets it healthy right out of the box.
Basically, I'd rather waste some O2 than have a poor batch.  In my
case, maybe hitting it with 2 doses would be ideal, but it isn't
really broken now, so...

 -SM-
Redwood City, CA
I was promised blackouts and suffering dammit!

> I made a generic batch of wheat ale on Sunday in which I oxygenated
> at about 6 hrs after pitching.  (Recall recent discussions of when is the 
> optimal time to add O2)  This ferment appears to be the most healthy
> of any beer I have ever made.  The rate (as judged be the airlock activity)
> was nearly peaking by about 6 hrs after the O2 addition.
> 
> So, FWIW, seems like a little delay in oxygenation may be helpful.  Of
> course I haven't tasted the results yet...
> 
> cheers,
> Dave Riedel
> Victoria, Can.


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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:30:14 EDT
From: Marcie5295 at aol.com
Subject: Re: All Grain

Responding to Colby Fry's Questions:
>1. Should I strain the liquor from the mash/tun before I start the boil?
>2. Whats up with the "Cold Break" and do I strain that?
>3. Should I use more grain than necessary on my first couple runs until I
>get my efficiency up to par?
>4. last but not least- When I sparge, is it kosher to press the grain bed to
>gain the excess juice in the boiler?

1. Doesn't matter. Wait until there is at least an inch in your kettle before 
firing it up, to avoid additional caramelizing (unless that is a desired 
result).
2. Doesn't really matter. If you are making efforts to separate trub before 
transferring to the fermenter after cooling the wort, this will take care of 
itself. If not, no biggie.
3. No. You will likely overshoot your OG. Your efficiency will be fine.
4. No!!!!! This will extract tannins (and other bad stuff, as well as negate 
the recirculation you are hopefully doing in order to clear the runoff before 
sparging) and result in an over-astringent, hangover-causing beer. Be gentle!

Finally,

>P.S. any good starter grain recopies?

Brew a Special Bitter. Use 10% carapils and/or light crystal. Shoot for 40 to 
45 OG's, 25-35 IBU's, and moderate to moderately high English hop flavor & 
aroma. Can't go wrong, and it's one of the best libations this planet has to 
offer.

 -AK  Huntington Beach, CA


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Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:31:17 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Re: Temperature unevenness in mash

In Homebrew Digest #3674 (July 02, 2001)
Stuart Strand said
>
>about a 8-10 deg F temperature gradient in the mash that I cannot get rid of
>by running the recirc pump.  The top is always hot, the bottom always cool.
>Manual mixing helps for a while, but the gradient always returns.  The
>manifold makes mixing problematic.  Any suggestions?
>
I agitate continuously and get +/- 1F consistency, top to
bottom except when directly heating during steps; then the
delta-F is about 10F max.  Measurements are made right
along the axis and also within 1/2-in of the tun wall.
Mash kettle is a 5-gal SS variety store stockpot with a
WeldBGone bulkhead penetration at the side and a slotted
pvc manifold that's wrapped with aluminum flyscreen.  The
impeller is a 3-in dia maple propellor bandsawed out of
solid stock, running 75-100 rpm.  The shaft is a 3/8-in
dowel chucked up in a bracketed hand drill.  The shaft
extends 3-in beyond the propellor face to keep it off the
bottom, away from the manifold.  The kettle is insulated
with inch-thick 'ductboard' slotted on its inner
(fiberglas) face and strapped on with bungee cords.  The
sucker looks like a prototype thermonuclear device but it
gets me a consistent 30 pt-gal/lb with most low-adjunct
recipes.  YMMV.

stencil sends
RKBA!




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Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:59:01 -0400
From: "bsmnt" <bsmntbrewr at home.com>
Subject: Robots  Re: Link, what link?

 Brewers,
It has been brought to my attention that the link to the
Home brew robots in the Smithsonian Magazine may not have
worked for everyone.  I believe that the link may have been
to long and had a line break thrown in for some of you.  If
that is the case you should be able to copy and paste the
entire link into the address bar of your browser from the
two lines that it is on in the HBD.

Here it is again:

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues01/jul01/
phenom_jul01.html

If anyone is really all that interested and still has
problems email me and I can send you the directions on how
to get there from their main site.

 Brew On!
 Bob Bratcher
 Roanoke, VA
 Star City Brewers Guild
 http://hbd.org/starcity







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Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:27:40 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: American beer month?

I have this stupid "365 Bottles of Beer for the Year" calendar.  Is
July full of American beers?  Nope!  Out of the first 6 days, only 2
are American beers.  And there's no mention of American Beer Month!

Hey, you ABM guys! Here's an opportunity to reach a larger audience!
The calendar is published by Workman Publishing.

=Spencer


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