---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  repostings (rdg)
  cooking with beer (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  carbonation (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Homebrew Digest #368 (March 01, 1990) (Michael Bergman)
  re:	yeasts and rumors (florianb)
  re: mild ale malt (Darryl Richman)
  re: Volume vs. weight measurement (Chris Shenton)
  re:	#368, cooling, logging, and heading (florianb)
  beer pancakes (Marty Albini)
  immersion-type wort chiller (concern) (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  Re: Recipes of a different nature (John S. Watson)
  Medievalists, beer and bread ("Beware of badgers in the moonlight.")
  re: cooking with beer (Darryl Richman)
  Digest #369 (Pete Soper)
  Temperature of Mash (Steve Anthony)
  harvey mudd homebrew club (Joe Shirey)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 02 Mar 90 10:24:05 MST
From: rdg
Subject: repostings
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	


Since many subscribers did not receive digest #369 due to its
size (and the size restrictions at some sites) I am reposting
the articles from #369 in #370 that were not too big. I have
also implemented a size limiter in my digest software to prevent
this problem in the future.

Everybody: please be aware that your postings get sent out to
over 650 other mailboxes, so try to keep your articles concise,
and keep in mind the notion of "general interest".


Rob
(the administrator)

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 08:58:08 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: cooking with beer


In Homebrew Digest #368, Mark Leone wrote:
> Anyone have any good *food* recipes using beer as an ingredient?

Jack Erickson wrote a book called "Great Cooking with Beer" (1989, Red 
Brick Press, Reston, VA).  The book includes quite a few recipes, from
standbys like Beer Bread, to some more unusual things, like using beer
in cake.  To tell the truth though, I was somewhat disappointed in this
book because Erickson puts entirely too much filler in the book...I really
don't give a rat's ass about what foods were served at tastings he
conducted at local restaurants...I want a *BEER-FOOD COOKBOOK*.  

Erickson could easily have found more recipes that use beer. In just
thumbing through it I realized that he did not include things like,
* Steamed Chesapeake Blue Crabs
* Chili 

I've got some recipes that aren't in Erickson's book, these include:
* Belgian Fruit
* Stout & Sour Meatballs
* Hoppy Lentil Soup 

Some other recipes I've heard of, but don't have, include:
* Black Bean Soup
* Cherry Creek Pie (made with Kriek lambic ale)

Last year I was in Boston and stopped by the Commonwealth Brewery. They
served up a delicious plate of mussels cooked in stout.  I accompanied
the meal with a glass of stout, then a winter warmer for dessert and
was in heaven all night....

Erickson's book is a good starting point in finding these recipes, and
it's pretty reasonably priced--I believe I paid about $12.  In "Great
Cooking..." Erickson alluded to a second volume coming down the pike,
I hope he treats the cooking part more seriously in the 2nd volume and
omits the extraneous generalities (I want cow, not bull).

Bon appetit,
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at ra.stsci.edu

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 08:58:35 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: carbonation


In Homebrew Digest #368, Max Newman writes:
>After one week...I tried one bottle. The beer tasted fine but had little
>carbonation.

Your beer will probably be fine.  When I sampled my last batch of brown
ale after only one week it too was rather flat.  I let the beer sit 
another 3-4 weeks before opening another bottle; this bottle poured
with a very nice head and subsequent bottles were fine.
- --Mark Stevens
  stevens at ra.stsci.edu

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 10:09:50 EST
From: bergman at m2c.org (Michael Bergman)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #368 (March 01, 1990)


Mark R. Leone  <mleone at cs.cmu.edu> asks for recipes for food with beer
as an ingredient.  I have never had them myself, but have heard lots
of praise heaped on the "shrimp steamed in beer" at Poli's Seafood in
Squirrel Hill, Pittsburgh.  A happy coincidence that Mr. Leone is
currently in the right city to take advantage of this!  Let's hope he
likes shrimp (I don't, which is why I've never tried Poli's)

Any good bread book should have a recipe for beer bread, in which beer
is used as the source of the yeast, as well as replacing some of the
liquid.  Most mediaeval recipes for either bread or cake call for beer
for this purpose, since standardized freeze dried yeast packets were
not yet available ... any of the mediaevalists out there want to post
a recipe?

- --mike bergman
	      Massachusetts Microelectronics Center
	      75 North Drive, Westborough, MA  01581, USA +1 (508) 870-0312
	UUCP: (...harvard)!m2c!bergman    INTERNET:   bergman at m2c.org         


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Date: 01 Mar 90 08:06:08 PST (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: re:	yeasts and rumors

A couple of issues ago, Mark Stevens commented on my question about
SN yeast:

>good, pure strain.  Heurich said that if a brewery does NOT use
>only a single strain that they risk infection of the strains
>by each other and that by restricting your brewing to that single
>strain you can better maintain its purity.  This 

However, in the same issue, BRW commented that SN uses two yeasts in their
brewing.  I've heard a similar claim from other sources.

This sort of discussion isn't really important to my brewing, since I use
either package or liquid yeast.  But it does serve as an example of how
the brewing industry and hobby are full of rumors everywhere you look.

Case in point:  I made two identical brews using the Wyeast British yeast
and hydrated Red Star ale yeast.  The Red Star produced a cleaner, clearer,
tastier beer, a whole lot faster.  Other Wyeast ale yeasts have, however,
given me much better performance than the dry yeast.

Florian the doubting.


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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 09:00:33 PST
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: mild ale malt

From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
"  I recently got some Munton and Fison mild ale malt but could get
"no color information. If any of you know the approximate lovibond
"or EBC rating of this grain I'd greatly appreciate it if you could
"let me know via email. If you've had experience with this grain and
"could even say something like "It is a bit lighter than light Munich",
"or "Twice as dark as British pale malt" that would be very helpful.
"Thanks.

Please pass along the source of your malt--I'd like to order some.  Mild
malt is darker than the pale Munich malt generally available.  I would
guess that it is about 10 Lovibond.  The local shop once had mild malt
but is unable to obtain it any more.  I made several Mild Ales from it,
with OGs as low as 31, that turned out very pleasant.  Without informing
someone that they were drinking a low alcohol beer (2-2.5% v/v), they
would never suspect it.  The perfect drink for parties.

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 13:50:04 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: re: Volume vs. weight measurement

(Mark Stevens) writes:
> Dick is absolutely right that you can't measure whole hops (or even
> pellets) by the cup.

I got one of those cheesey little drug-scales, the kind they sell at head
shops (er, excuse me: smoking paraphernalia emporiums) for $7.00. It's not
too much of a pain to clip on a baggie (er, zip-loc sandwich bag), fill
with hops, and subtract the weight of aforementioned baggie. I'd hate to
have to guess weights that small. Price seems fair for what it does.

Ultimately, I'd get one of the $40 - $60 Sohnle (or whatever) scales which
read up to about 8 Lb, in 1/2 ounce increments, but it's too expensive now.
For pound increments, I'd be measuring grain, anyway, and volume measures
seem tolerable for that.

Cheers!

PS:
	I use the AAU measures for my records, in order to account for
alpha acid content of the particular hops. As soon as I can figure out the
other, more professional system (IBU's?) I'll probably switch over; the
advantage there is that the measure of bitterness is *not* dependant on the
amount of beer you make.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Internet:  chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155)      NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP:      ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris             Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN:      PITCH::CHRIS                                            301-286-6093

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Date: 01 Mar 90 12:46:42 PST (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: re:	#368, cooling, logging, and heading

In #368, tony g quotes Farnsworth's article in Zymurgy which claims that
inserting a submersible cooler substantially increases the chances of
wort contamination.  This is pure bullshit.  If the wort is hot and the
cooler is cleaner than a toilet, there is no problem.  This quote fuels
my previous claim that the world of brewing is full of rumors.

Max Newman inquires about head on his new beer.  Yes, Max, you should
wait a while.  The head and carbonation will improve.  I use 3/4 cup
of sugar in all my brews and get consistent carbonation results.  The
head varies depending on ingredients (see Miller's book).  The British
tend to like less "gassy" brews.

Chris Shenton submitted a log sheet in a particular type of format.  Two
comments: (1) Have you ever used a Macintosh?  (2) It would be preferrable
to send a message to HB DIG regarding the *availability* of the material,
rather than the LONG message containing the data.  The actual data could
be then sent to interested parties directly.  This would be much more
economical.  Please, no offense intended.  Your efforts are appreciated.
Incidentally, I use a log book I obtained at a business supply shop.

Florian the complainer.


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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 13:57:51 PST
From: Marty Albini <hplabs!hpsdl39!martya>
Subject: beer pancakes

>Anyone have any good *food* recipes using beer as an ingredient?

	How about beer pancakes?


		dry stuff

	*1/4 cp oat flour
	*1/4 cp graham flour (a coursely ground whole wheat flour used
		for making graham crackers)
	*1/2 cp whole wheat pastry flour
		(1 cp total)
		-or-
	*1 cp whole wheat pastry flour

	1/2 tsp baking powder (use 3/4 tsp of the non-alum kind)
	1/2 tsp baking soda
	1/2 tsp salt
	1 heaping tbl dry malt extract
	1 heaping tbl health-food store brewer's yeast

optional:
	1 tbl sesame seeds

		wet stuff

	1 cp bland, boring, light beer, easy on the hops (unless you
		want to eat the whole batch yourself)
	1 1/2 tsp lemon juice (1 good squeeze of 1/2 a lemon)
	1/2 stick butter/margarine 


	Set margarine in the frying pan to melt. Mix dry ingrediants
in one bowl, wet in another. Add the melted butter to the wet and mix
well just before stirring in dry stuff. If you want skinnier pancakes,
thin batter with beer.

	Serves two. You might want to make a double batch, as this
leaves 1/2 a can of bad beer sitting around, and I for one don't drink
before breakfast, and if I did, I wouldn't drink this stuff.

	If the beer isn't flat, you can reduce the baking powder and
soda. The lemon juice is just to react with the soda, so that can go
away too. If you use fresh beer, the above makes very light and 
fluffy pancakes.

	Enjoy!
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Thank god for long-necked bottles, the angel's remedy."--Tom Petty
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya%hp-sdd at hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu)
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 20:19:06 MST
From: roberts at studguppy (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: immersion-type wort chiller (concern)

> From: tony g <giannone at BBN.COM>
> 
> I was thumbing through my Zymurgy "Yeast & Beer" (1989 special issue) last
> night when I came upon an interesting statement in Paul Farnsworth's
> "Healthy Homebrew Starter Cultures" article. On page 11 Mr. Farnsworth says
> "Cooling the wort before transferring it to the fermenter, using ice
> immersion or a copper cooling coil placed inside the boiling pot vastly
> increases the chance of contamination."        
> 
> I thought that using an immersion-type wort chiller would vastly 'decrease'
> the chance of contamination since it allows the yeast to be added sooner.
> Is Mr. Farnsworth assuming that the wort chiller is being place in the
> wort 'after the boil' instead of 'during the last 10-15 minutes'?

I was disappointed with that article. I completely disagree with
Farnsworth's contention that an immersion chiller coil increases the
chance for contamination. Ice immersion, of course, would be a
completely different story. However, if you practice healthy
sanitation procedures with your primary, and let the immersion coil
rest in the boiling wort for 10 - 15 minutes prior to starting the
flow of cooling water, there is no additional risk of contamination.

- --Doug

================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-609             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 90 20:22:51 -0800
From: John S. Watson <watson at ames.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Recipes of a different nature


In HOMEBREW Digest #368	Mark.Leone at F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> Anyone have any good *food* recipes using beer as an ingredient?  I've
> had good beer-batter fried chicken, and now my curiosity is piqued!

Here a cookbook I found recently at B. Dalton's Book store:

Brew Cuisine: Cooking with Beer 
by Judith Gould and Ruth Koretsky
Summerhill Press, 1989
192 pages, $9.95

Other information from the inner leaf:
Printed in Canada, Distributed in the United States by:
Sterling Publishing
2 Park Avenue
New York, New York 10016
ISBN 0-920197-73-6

I've only made a few of the recipes in the book ... mainly the stews.
There are recipes for: 
           appetizers, 
           bread, 
           sauces, marinades & salad dressings;
           soups; vegetables,
           eggs & cheese,
           fish & seafood,
           poultry,
           beef, lamb & veal,
           pork,
           desserts.

Some of the recipes seem kind of bogus, because they require only a teaspoon
or so of beer.  (Maybe it's just an excuse to have to dispose of 
a little less than 12oz or beer :-).

But some recipes require goodly portions , 
as much as 4 cups, "Traditional Carbonnade".

There is also a lot of beer and brewing history and lore mixed in 
between the recipes.

have fun,
John


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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 90 08:20 CST
From: "Beware of badgers in the moonlight." <PTGARVIN at aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu>
Subject: Medievalists, beer and bread

Brewers all:

Well, I play SCA, so I guess that means I'm a medievalist, even though my
interests lie more in pre-medieval times.  

The ancient Celts would make bread using _barm_, which is the krausen that
floats on the top in the early stages of fermentation.  I imagine that they'd
just make some beer, scoop off some krausen, and pitch it into their bread
mixture, although I imagine that you'll want to be sanitary about it to
avoid funny-tasting bread.

 - Ted
- --
"I never say everything I am thinking, and not just because I think
much faster than I can think."  -- Dan Mocsny
ptgarvin at aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu / ptgarvin at uokmax.UUCP | Eris loves you!
in the Society: Padraig Cosfhota o hUlad / Barony of Namron, Ansteorra
Disclaimer:  Fragile.  Contents inflammable.  Do not use near open flame.

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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 90 07:42:52 PST
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: cooking with beer

In the March 2nd issue, Mark Stevens berates Jack Erickson's book,
"Great Cooking with Beer".  For a balancing point of view, let me say
that I think it is wonderful, especially as a gift.  In point of fact,
little of the book is used for recipes, although there are 50 recipes
beyond the weird drinks section.  But it has a good introduction to
beer, beer styles, and the brewing process, some history as well.  All
of this is fairly light, so a lay-cook might be interested to read it
and learn about beer and brewing.  The recipes I've tried have all been
winners.  Very popular and easy has been the Stout Cheese;  the glazed
ham was a hit last Thanksgiving, and we just had the marinated pork
chops last night.  Once you see where his recipes go, it's easy to
make additions and changes to suit your own tastes.  I'd love to see
more recipes, but this book has about 47 more than in all the other
cookbooks my wife and I have collected before it.  I hope that he'll
come out with a 2nd volume.

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 90 11:02:46 EST
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: Digest #369

  It appears some of my email to Chris Shenton got sent by his site to
the digest yesterday. I'll leave it up to Chris to shed light on what
might have caused this. But aside from deeply regretting the big glob of 
postscript, I need to add a strong caveat about that "I'm a Bitter Man" 
stuff. That was some blue sky stuff I was bouncing off Chris and it is 
just as well that it stopped in mid sentence. I'm especially glad his
site didn't post our follow up messages to the digest or I might have 
had to leave the planet :-) Sorry about this folks.
  About that postscript file. Too bad about that going out, because
I wanted to convince myself I'd gotten it right and then give it over
to the archive site for ftp access. As it is, aside from the mental
image I have of Florian *still* scrolling through this with his Mac, the
postscript file is screwed up in the sense that I didn't get the font 
descriptions into it, so if you don't have an Apple laser printer
then you might not be able to print it. It has also got a copyright 
notice in it. I put it in after fiddling for hours one night and thinking 
to myself "Hey, this is work!". Ignore the copyright.
  When things quiet down I'll return to this project and send it to the
archive site. If you do play with this "unauthorized" version, keep in 
mind the words of Chuck Cox (who started this decoder stuff last year), 
"Some labels appear to use this system but produce bizarre dates, so 
use your common sense.". 

  Here is the supplier that stocks mild ale malt:

  Alternative Beverage
  627-A Minuet Lane
  Charlotte, NC  28217
  1-800-365-2739

  I only vaguely remember the price as being 5 or 6 something for a 5 pound
bag. Jess Fawcett is the guy to talk to at Alternative (tell him I said hello).
  Thanks for the info, Darryl. I made a crude attempt at a mild some time
ago and liked it so much I thought I'd try it again with "real" ingredients.
Could you shoot me an email message and tell me what yeast you used in your
milds?
  I had a problem with the Farnsworth article too. His statement that yeast
should "never be pitched into wort at less than 59 degrees F" is certainly
bogus. I suspect his words were edited or the context was goofed up or
something. 

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper                                             +1 919 481 3730
internet: soper at encore.com     uucp: {bu-cs,decvax,gould}!encore!soper 
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA

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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 90 11:47:12 EST
From: Steve Anthony <steveo at Think.COM>
Subject: Temperature of Mash

A question for the physicists out there.

I do partial mashes when I brew. I ususally have about 3 lbs of grain and
2-3 quarts of water during the mash. I mash in a Le Cruset enamaled cast
iron pot that hold the heat very well without having to add heat to
maintain a certain temperature. The thing I'm noticing is that when I stir
the mash with the thermometer in it, I get a lower temperature than if I
don't stir. This is with the bulb of the thermometer as clsoe to the center
of the mash as possible and with no heat being added to the pot.

My theory is that there is different thermal conductivity of the grains and
water and that when stirring, the thermometer is in contact with the water
more than the grains and when at rest it's in contact with the grains more
than the water.

While I am relaxed about it, (ie not worried, the beer turns out fine), I'm
curious as to the explanation of the phenomena.

Has anyone else noted such behavior?

Bung Ho!

Steveo

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Date:     Thu, 1 Mar 90 20:45:17 PST
From: Joe Shirey <jshirey at jarthur.Claremont.edu>
Subject:  harvey mudd homebrew club

Hello, I am a student at Harvey Mudd College in Claremont, CA (earthquake
central).  We have a brewing club with about 25 members (that is about 5%
of our college population).  We are interested in sharing recipies and
exchanging brewing lore.  Our club is archiving all recipies of 
homebrew that we make.  One of the most interesting and tasty is:

WASHINGTON APPLE ALE
4 lbs Telford's Yorkshire Nut Brown Ale hopped malt
1 lb honey
1/2 lb corn sugar
1/2 lb dark crystal malt
4 lbs red apples
2 teaspoons cinnamon

In cold water place crushed dark crystal grains enclosed in a cheesecloth,
and bring the water to boil.  As boiling commences remove crystal malt 
and add Telford's.  Boil for approximately 15-20 minutes.  Add sugar and 
honey and boil for 10 more minutes.  Turn down heat so that boiling
stops.  Add cinnamon and sliced apples to mixture and let steep for 15 
minutes.  Remove apples with strainer and transfer mixture to your
carboy.  This beer has a medium body with a hint of apple flavor.  
It is very smooth with little or no bitterness (that can be changed by
using finishing hops).  

Thanks for your outlet to exchange information, you can contact me
at jshirey at jarthur

Sincerely,
Joseph Shirey

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #370, 03/03/90
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