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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  combining different yeast strains (leavitdg)
  RE: Fob ("Dennis Lewis")
  Roggen bier ("Dennis Lewis")
  Ball-lock vs. Pin Lock Kegging ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Beir Circus (LJ Vitt)
  false bottom design ("Hubert W.Schreier")
  RE: Of brewpubs and pregnancies (Brian Lundeen)
  dry hoppping, jockey box foaming ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: Lower temp in RIMS (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Re; Subject: Poperinge hop pageant (Jay Pfaffman)
  Beer Clubs and Brew Pubs (Jay Pfaffman)
  Green Hops (Jeff Hertz)
  re: marbles in the keg (stencil)
  Composting spent grain ("May, Jeff")
  Re: Oktoberfest food question (stencil)


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 05:17:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: combining different yeast strains

Several times I have combined different yeast strains....just exper-
imenting to see what will occur.

I suppose that one should pay attention to relative similarities in:

attenuation

preferred temperature range

style preferences

What else is worth thinking about when trying to combine different
liquid yeasts?

I recently combined the Hefe and Wit from WhiteLabs and the brew came
out good (to me)...I also have combined the Calf and the Calif V...and
today I am trying to combine the Irish and the Australian Ale yeasts.

Anyone have any thougths on this ?

 ..Darrell


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:48:12 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at LewisDevelopment.com>
Subject: RE: Fob

I think I'm the culprit who started the 'fob' discussion... I have always
understood 'fob' to mean 'foam coming from the cask or keg'. The Rapids catalog
has a device called Fob Stop that detects when a keg is blown and shuts off the
line (preventing you from emptying a 100' commercial beer run to find the keg is
empty). I also recall using 'fob' to describe the foam coming out of the soft
spile on a cask. Could have been the CAMRA Guide to Cellarmanship, but it's not
handy to check.

Dennis Lewis




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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:59:31 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at LewisDevelopment.com>
Subject: Roggen bier

I found a beer style that I'm interested in trying. I'm looking 
for anyone who has tried this brew. The beer is Paulaner Roggen.
http://www.paulaner.de/e/index.html The web site describes it thusly:

"This beer speciality combines tangy weissbier freshness with the 
unique aromatic rye wort. A unique beer experience for true connoisseurs.
Glowing dark colour, brewed by the top-fermentation process with 
over 50% fine rye malt, 12.5% original wort. Its high rye content 
means that it contains the particularly large number of vitamins, 
minerals and trace elements."

So what I've gleaned from this is 'make and ferment like a regular
weissbier, but use rye malt instead of wheat malt.' I also assume that
the hopping rates are very low like regular weissbier.

I made a pale ale last year with 15% rye that was terrific. The 
spicyness from the rye blended very well with cascade hops. I'm 
just wondering if that much rye is tolerable to the taste.

Dennis Lewis
Warren, OH

"I'm allergic to grass. Hey, it could be worse,
I could be allergic to beer." --Golfer Greg Norman 


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:20:00 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Ball-lock vs. Pin Lock Kegging


Hi all,

I recently was able to pick up a really great deal from a guy who was
leaving the hobby, and I am now a proud owner of fairly complete Corny keg
setup -- 15 lb CO2 tank, seven used but very clean Ball Lock kegs, a beat-up
regulator for three separate kegs, all the lines, tons of spare parts, the
works. Only down-side to this wind-fall is that (1) I'm totally ignorant
about kegging my own beer, and (2) the brew-club members I hang out with
only have Pin Lock kegs etc.

Assuming that I can dive into my stash of Brew Your Own and Zymurgy
magazines and get smart about kegging in general, what I am curious about is
if it is feasible/possible to convert my fittings to what everybody else
that I know is using...? Are there any Ball-Lock to Pin-Lock adaptors
floating around anywhere, or would converting my kegs to Pin-Lock be too
much trouble (or just plain impossible)?

Any/all information from the collective would be much appreciated...!

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA




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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Beir Circus




>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:43:23 
>From: "matt dinges" <matt_dinges at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Brussels Bier Circus

>This is in response to Leo's listing of places in Brussels.  Leo: you 
>list 
>bier circus as a bottle shop.  When were you there?  I was there in 
>1998 and 
>it was far from a bottle shop.  It was a bar with a few hundred 
>different 
>belgian beers and a limited food menu.  This was the only beer bar I 
>visited 
>in Brussels, went there three nights in a row.  Great Place, the owner 
>was 
>very friendly and gave me info on other similiar places in other towns.

I was in Brussels in May this year.
I could have confused names, but I think I have it right.

 - Leo



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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:57:42 -0400
From: "Hubert W.Schreier" <schreier at sc.edu>
Subject: false bottom design

I am in the process of redesigning my brewing setup and have decided on using 
a round cooler as a mash/lauter tun. I have the opportunity to have a false 
bottom custom-machined out of stainless steel. Now, I am wondering what the 
ideal hole pattern for a false bottom is, and searching the internet and past 
hbd posts has not answered my question. My plans include recirculating the 
wort through a heat exchanger, and I have gathered from my internet search 
that stuck mashes can be a problem if the open area of the false bottom is 
too small. However, there is some conflicting information on what exactly 
"too small" is. Some authors claim a minimum of 70% open area is required for 
RIMS, while others describe success recirculating through a false bottom with 
3/32" holes on 5/32" centers, which, according to my calculations, provides 
an open area of slightly over 30%.

Some documents that turned up during my search made vague references to slot 
patterns being preferable over hole patterns, but I have found no information 
on slotted false bottoms for home brewing. Commercial brewery false bottoms 
seem to employ very thin (<1mm), long (>50mm) slots with very wide spacing 
(~10mm), yielding a very low percentage of open area.

The machining process limits my slot width to a minimum of 1mm. My current 
design uses 2mm wide slots of 8.5mm length with a 1.5mm spacing, which would 
give me an open area of just below 50%.

Also, some documents that I came accross mentioned that the hole pattern 
should not extend all the way to the boundary to avoid having the liquid run 
along the vessel walls instead of through the grain bed. I currently plan on 
leaving an 8mm non-slotted border. The diameter of the false bottom is ~245mm 
(~9 3/4").

Any comments or suggestions will be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Hubert.


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:30:02 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Of brewpubs and pregnancies

Troy Hager writes:
 
> Well, yesterday I got to brew at the local brewpub 

> They did not seem to be
> concerned about handling the mash so roughly. G. Fix would 
> surely cringe at
> all that hot mash flying all over the place.

Now, nowhere in your message did you describe the quality of the brews at
this brewpub. However, I suspect brewpubs go through their beers
sufficiently fast that staling is not really a consideration they have to
take into account. Assuming rough mashing -> HSA -> staling.
> 
> Another interesting thing I noticed is the small opening for 
> the kettle. At the end of 
> the boil, we
> had boiled off 1.5  of 18 bbls giving us just over an 8% 
> evaporation rate.

>From what I've heard, lower is better. With my big 60 qt propane heated brew
kettle I was also hitting about the 30% boiloff mark. My electric keg has
cut that in half, maybe a bit more. Are my beers better for this? I think
so, but of course, having spent a few hundred dollars on this contraption,
there is a strong incentive to believe that. However, I don't think anyone
can argue against a taller, narrower boil kettle geometry being superior
(ducking...) ;-)

Alan McKay writes:

> My wife and I are going to have an Oktoberfest party this 
> year to celebrate
> our 5th anniversary along with our first pregnancy (12 weeks 
> and counting!).
>

Well, congrats, Alan. You should have mentioned this when we were at the
Clocktower last month. I'm sure Drew and I could have gone halfers on a beer
for ya. So, is Jack one of the names you're considering for a boy? ;-)

Cheers
Brian 


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:18:15 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: dry hoppping, jockey box foaming

I dry hop solely in kegs since getting the hops in bags out of carboys has
always been a PITA.  I boil my hop bag before adding the hops and adding to
the keg.  I tie the bag to a cut off racking cane and use this to hold the
bag at the bottom of the keg.  This enables me to pull the hops out at the
diameter fishing line tied to the hop bag with the bag weighted down.  I did
use ceramic pie crust weights though which are okay for food applications
although a bit expensive at something like 5 to 10 dollars per lb.  

I don't get a tremendous amount of solids thru the bag but I still settle
the kegs for a while before drawing off beers via door tap.  The foaming
people experience is most likley due to the little amount of hop particles
that get thru the bag and act as neucleation sites.  This is probably worse
with kegs since the liquid draw is near the bottom and could always be
sucking up small amounts of particles to nucleate CO2 and cause foam.  In
bottles, its probably less likely since the hops iwould settle and you'd be
decanting liquid off the top into a glass.

As for a jockey box foaming with 1/4" line, the usual numbers posted for
pressure drop through a beer line (1/4" stainles in your case), are most
likely developed for plastic hose lines and not for stainless tubing.
Stainless most likely has a different microscopic roughness, thus different
friction factor,  thus different pressure drop characteristics.  Also, the
use of a coil, vs. a straight length of pipe causes different flow
characteristics in the line (due to perpindicular secondary circulation and
corrected for using the dimensionless "Dean number" including higher
pressure drop than normally calc'd).  Also, for example, I know that use a
coil can promote plug flow rather than the normal velocity distribution in a
pipe.

Pete Czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:03:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: Lower temp in RIMS

Don't know where anyone got the idea of any different mash temps in RIMS.
Mashing is mashing and enzymes are enyzmes no matter what equipment you
use.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen



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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:19:49 -0500
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Subject: Poperinge hop pageant

I don't (yet) live in SF, but here's some info from a couple recent
trips.

If memory serves, Anchor's tours are at 2:00 M-F, but they could have
something on the weekend as well.  Call them now to reserve a place.
I don't have the number handy, but I think you can find it on their
web page.  I've tried to catch them the last two times I went to SF,
but haven't made it yet.  Their tours fill up at least a week in
advance.   I believe that they are free and include beer.

On Oakland side of the bay is Pyramid in Berkeley.  They've got a
fairly large facility there; especially when compared to brew-pub
scale.  The tour's free and involves drinking beer.  I can't remember
when the tours are, but find more info
http://www.pyramidbrew.com/home.php.  Even if you miss the tour it's
worth going.  They've decent food and all the beer's good.

Oh, if you do venture into San Francisco, check out the 21st Amendment
(see URL below).  It's a great brew pub.  They were out of the
watermelon wheat when I was there, but I really wanted to try it.  400
pounds of watermelon in a ~375 gallon batch.  I think this one's
relatively convenient to get to off the freeway, but you will have to
go over the bridge to get their from OAK.

Here's a good list:
http://www.realbeer.com/destinations/sanfrancisco/breweries.html.

A couple notes about stuff on that list: Avoid E&O.  The food looked
great, but the beer was unimpressive, or maybe the lines hadn't been
cleaned recently enough.  Beach Chalet and Brewery got high marks from
a friend who went recently, but my Bay Area sister said that it's
"where you take the tourists."  If you don't mind paying a bit extra
to be able to drink fresh beer and look at the Pacific ocean, it's
probably worth a trip.

Have a nice trip.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-615-343-1720 (office)               +1-615-460-9299 (home) 
http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:39:10 -0500
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Beer Clubs and Brew Pubs

I'm a member of a brew club that has a great relationship with a local
brew-pub.  We get stuff like (1) free yeast (it's a joy to pitch a
full cup of fresh yeast in a 5 gallon batch) (2) discounted beer
(currently $2 drafts (rather than $3.50) and (3) free wort on National
Homebrew Day.  The brew pub gets quite a few people (20-30) coming in
weekly to drink beer at our informal meeting and lots of good word of
mouth from our 90-odd members.

I'm about to move to the San Francisco Bay area & a quick glance at
homebrew club web sites out there suggests no such connection with any
of the multitude of brew pubs out there.  I still don't know much
about these clubs, so I could be wrong, but a friend who's well
connected with the industry says that in the 80s there used to be
strong connections between brew pubs and home brewers in California,
but that folks took advantage of stuff like free yeast (and were
selling it?!) and at some point micro brewers got together and sort-of
agreed to disassociate with home brewers.

I'm interested in hearing more about the history of this as well as
how brew clubs in other places in the country relate to brew pubs and
microbreweries in their area.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-615-343-1720 (office)               +1-615-460-9299 (home) 
http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:40:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Hertz <duckinchicago at yahoo.com>
Subject: Green Hops

Just wondering if anyone has any opinions one way or
the other about using green or fresh hops.  I've got a
lovely  bunch of Cascades growing that are almost
ready to pick and am thinking about using some as
finishing hops.  I know in Fishers' book on growing
hops, they have a recipe using them, but I wanted to
see what others experiences are.  I know it will give
a "grassy" flavor (not neccesarily a bad thing in my
opinion), but ever since I planted my rhizomes I've
had the urge to try it.  Also, can you use them for
dry hopping?  There's nothing like the sight of hops
growing in your own backyard!



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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:36:58 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: re: marbles in the keg

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:11:11 -0400, in
Re: Homebrew Digest #3705 (August 10, 2001)
 "Stephen Fiete" <> wrote


>need somthing to weigh down bag of hops. I have 
>some marbles, but I do not know if they are food grade

Boil them, and the bag that will contain them, and
exercise reasonable sanitation while filling and deploying
the bag. 
Until it became too tiresome to clean up, I used to put a
half-gallon of marbles in the bottom of the fermenter.  No
infection problems that I was aware of.

stencil sends
RKBA!




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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:52:08 -0700
From: "May, Jeff" <jeff.may at attws.com>
Subject: Composting spent grain

Everything I read about compost piles says that you are only supposed to add
raw vegetable matter, never cooked.  But then they say used coffee grounds
are great for your pile.  So my question is can I compost my spent grain and
perhaps my spent hops?

Jeff May  jeff.may at attws.com



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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:06:59 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Re: Oktoberfest food question

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:11:20 -0400,
in Homebrew Digest #3707 (August 13, 2001) 
"Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com> wrote:

>
>So who has been to Oktoberfest and can tell me what types of foods we
>should look at serving at our party?
>
>So far I know :
> - beer (duh!)
>
In the morning, weisswurst and a bretzen - veal&parsley
sausage and a big pretzel-shaped bread.  The weisswurst
spoils very quickly but canned varieties do exist and are
better than nothing.  Frozen "Bavarian pretzels" can be
had in supermarkets.  Eat 'em with suesser senf, sweet
mustard.  Best with hefe weizen, *not too cold*

Any other hour - 
 
Festhaenchen, sage-stuffed barbecued half chicken, the
definitive festfress.  

Currywurst, a debretziner or knackwurst in a little paper
boat, slathered with ketchup and sprinkled with curry
powder.

Suelze - headcheese, pork and a gherkin in aspic, best
with horseradish and sharp mustard.

O'fest 85, 86, 88 (working near Rosenheim.)

stencil sends
RKBA!


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