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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Brewing for Competitions (Len Safhay)
  hops (gsferg)
  Isinglass use & clear beers (Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
  Re: : sacc. rest and mash thickness ("RJ")
  HBD Red Cross Fund Progress (Pat Babcock)
  Bud Certified CO2 ("Ray Daniels")
  Total Yield (Alexandre Enkerli)
  sacc. rest and mash thickness (Roy Roberts)
  Palm Recipe ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Montreal Brewpubs (Alexandre Enkerli)
  brewing in space (carlos benitez)
  RE: Palm (related) recipes? ("Bissell, Todd S")


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:12:09 -0400
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net>
Subject: Brewing for Competitions

Never having attended a competition, I have a question: Are the bottle
labels left on during the judging? If so, an obvious flaw is evident.
The labels include the name of the brewer and the club affiliation. This
cannot help but skew the judges perception of the beer. Let's say you
are a judge confronted with two beers; one brewed by Joe Blow and the
other by, say, George Fix. Or you harbor a personal bias against a
particular club.

There doesn't need to be an overt desire on the judges part to be
unfair, but they will ineitably have some preconceptions that will
effect their ability to be objective.

Are the bottles that the judges see simply numbered? If not, they should
be.



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:12:02 -0400
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: hops

>From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
>Subject: hops
>
>I know hop rhizomes are best planted in the spring but I am not patient enough
>to wait.  Does anyone know where I can purchase rhizomes for a fall planting?
>I am looking for Horizon and Mt. Hood plants.  By the way, what are the
>advantages/disadvantages spring vs. fall planting?

I suspect the problem is they will try to grow if you plant them in the fall 
and might get killed by frost. Also, their growth cycle is based on the hours 
of sunlight available and in the fall the plant's instincts are to die back, 
not grow.

Spring is certainly the traditional time to plant them- right after the frost 
is out of the ground, before the soil warms up appreciably but after the 
threat of frost is past. There is no reason you can't get a head start by 
planting them in pots in late winter, then transplant them outside after the 
threat of frost has past (I suspect I'll be trying that). I've got a half 
dozen plants growing that I'll be digging up and dividing next spring. I'll 
also be ordering more too- now that I've switched to all-grain brews I've 
discovered, to my chagrin, that the cost of hops is my major expense :)

Check out http://www.freshops.com/

They sell hops of all sorts and the site has lots of information.

George-




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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:17:57 -0500
From: "James \(Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Isinglass use & clear beers

In #3741, Colby says he tried Isinglass for the first time, following the
directions and asks about a "goop" floating on top of his beer after using
it.

Colby, I can't answer what the "goop" is or tell you what it will do, but I
wonder if the directions told you to use the Isinglass correctly.

According to a few sources I have, Isinglass works when the temp of the beer
is between 50-60F.  One source says it works best on a beer with a rising
temp starting from the low 50's.

This has proved out in my experience.

I tried Isinglass when I used to ferment in carboys at room temp but never
had much luck with it.  Now, I ferment in 10gal kegs and am able to
cold-condition all my beers, letting them fall bright naturally with no
finings (more on that in a sec).  I use Isinglass (liquid) in the
cask-conditioned beers I do.

After fermentation is over, I chill the beer to 50F (some cask aficionados
may say you should never get it this cold), rack to a pin (5.5 US gal), add
an 8oz(lq) bottle of Isinglass, plug it and roll it around a bit
(agitation), then stick it in a fridge at 57-58F.  I don't know what stages
it goes through or how it looks, but when I tap the cask in as little as two
weeks, every one of them have been brilliant.

Now another data point on clearing beer.  As I said, I cold condition all my
beer at 38F (except the cask-conditioned).  In the past, I rack to the tank
after fermentation, then let it sit under CO2 pressure.  Even after several
weeks, some beers were still a bit hazy.

I read somewhere (don't recall) that "spunding" shortens conditioning time
and speeds clarification.  Spunding is the practice of transferring the beer
to a secondary before it's finished, sealing the fermentor and letting it
carbonate naturally.  I have been doing this with the last several batches
and can say that it apparently does work very good.  I can't get complete
carbonation of the beer this way, but it does carb the beer a bit.  What I
do get, which is more important for me, is that every beer so far has been
brilliant after a few weeks.

I sorta "wing it" when to seal the fermentor, attach a pressure gauge and
monitor the pressure.  Sometimes it gets up to 18psi.  I have yet to feel
the need to relieve the pressure during this.  I still get good attenuation,
so apparently the pressure isn't affecting the yeast much, if any - seems I
read somewhere that yeast under pressure doesn't want to act right.

Anyway, hope this is useful to some out there.

 -Jay Reeves
Huntsville, AL




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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:06:25 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: : sacc. rest and mash thickness

"Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> wrote:

"Gregory Noonan in 'New Brewing Lager Beer' says the duration of the sacc.
rest affects fermentability and flavour and that a 120 minute mash is going
to eke out every bit of diastatic power that the malt has to offer. A 2
hour mash at 149 F (65 C) is going to give a beer with a lower FG than a 45
minute mash at the same temp.

     Therefore can I assume that if I do a 120 minute mash at 69 deg C (156
F) I will have a beer that attenutes well but is still high in dextrins or
maybe maltier than a mash held at 65 deg C (149 F) for 45 minutes.
The same thoughts I have with mash thickness e.g. a thick mash = dextrinous
wort. But what if I mash for 2 hours! Surely if I do the
1. thickest mash possible
2. at 69 C and
3. rest for 2 hours plus...
 ...I won't have a thin flavourless bodiless beer !

I'll add that I am aware that the degree of attenuation doesn't dictate
maltiness (or lack there of)."

Thomas,

I think that you're missing the point!

The temperature of the mash is more important than the duration, but, longer
times will eek out more of the "sweetness" of that particular step, esp. at
the lower temperature ranges.  Because you are allowing the enzymes to
denature naturally by duration vs. denaturing them by heat.

149F (65C) is the top of the bandwagon for Alpha-Beta enzymes, which produce
a more fermiable <sp> mash.  If you were to start at 156F (69C) without the
lower temp steps, the beta enzymes would be denatured (almost instantly) and
the Alpha enzymes would be on their way out too.  You would produce a less
fermiable mash, with a higher dextrine value.  The higher the rest
temperature, the less time is needed.

My forte is multi-step infusion mashes, that said... a single infusion range
of 144F-158F with direct heat to step up with, requires longer times at the
lower temp spectrum.

You certainly will have a fuller bodied brew using your 3 step plan above,
but, without the lower enzyme rests, you'll be missing the boat on
attenutation, because there will be far less fermentable sugars (using
conventional beer yeasts) available.

My suggestion (if using all barley) would be to mash at 146F for 45 min,
then add heat to 156F and hold for conversion (using the iodine test
method), plus 20 min..

This should give you the desired effect.



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:53:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: HBD Red Cross Fund Progress

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

The progress of the Red Cross match drive is now being tracked
on the HBD website, similarly to how we account for our server
fund donations. Go to http://hbd.org and pick HBD Community Red
Cross Match Fund to the right of the flag at half mast.

Instructions for donating and clarification of the dates are
on that site as well.

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:38:33 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Bud Certified CO2

I'd love to get my hands on some of this Bud-certified CO2!

When I was in the Siebel diploma course we discussed the fact that
"beverage" CO2 is not very pure -- and one of the key contaminants is
oxygen!  So every time we force carbonate a beer, we are goosing it with a
good bit of beer spoiling O2.

Frankly I'm not sure it makes that big a difference for just pushing beer
out of a keg--especially a beer that moves as fast as Bud--but for
"production" work, including homebrew, it would be great.

Guinness had a similar campaign four or five years ago related to mixed gas.

So how do I get some of this good gas?

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
E-mail:  ray at aob.org
Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.

Don't Miss:
   Great American Beer Festival - Denver, CO - Sept 27-29

For more info see: www.beertown.org




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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:08:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Total Yield

Hi,
I'm looking at my total system efficiency and I keep noticing the
discrepancies between the batch size (i.e., the volume in the primary) and
the actual number of bottles I fill. Is it normal to only be able to fill
24-30 tall bottles (mostly 660ml's with some 750ml's) from 23 l in the
primary?
What are your yields?

Alex Enkerli



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:21:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Roberts <psilosome at yahoo.com>
Subject: sacc. rest and mash thickness

Thomas,

A good question - it turns out that at 69 deg C (156 F) the beta amylase
needed for good fermentability doesn't survive very long, so a lower
temperature rest is needed if you want a drier beer. If you search the
HBD archives you will find others who describe the conversion processs
in more detail.

Roy Roberts 
NYC



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:17:21 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Palm Recipe

Greetings all...Jan-Willem Van Groenigen asks for a Special Palm recipe.
First of all Jan, I'm curious as to what your impressions are of how that
bottle of Special Palm tasted compared to the same beer on tap in Belgium
and Holland.  Beers such as Special Palm and DeKoninck are among my
favorites, and I have noted that the bottled versions seem to taste
drastically different than the draught versions.  DeKoninck on tap is a
wonderful beer, but in the bottle I have found it to be rather
one-dimensional and uninspiring.  I think that you are probably correct in
your assessment of oxidation being the source of the sherry notes.

Although I haven't tried to clone Special Palm, I have finally developed a
good DeKoninck recipe, and found that the key element to making these beers
at home is the yeast.  After many attempts, I found that using Wyeast 1388
(Belgian Strong Ale) with a warm (70 F) primary and a cold (40 F) secondary
yields the desired subtle fruit and spice esters but with the relatively
clean finish that makes these beers so "more-ish".  If you are interested, I
can provide more details on the recipe.

Cheers,

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado  



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:24:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Montreal Brewpubs

Oops! I had missed this thread...
I'll second the votes for Dieu du Ciel and Cheval blanc and would love to
join any number of homebrewers there. DdC is especially close to my place.
There are other brewpubs in town, though, and they display the variety of
tastes characteristic of Mtl.

L'amere a boire on St-Denis specializes in Czech lagers. Their Imperial
Stout is also really good.

Sergent Recruteur on St-Laurent (4650) is a Real Ale pub with associated
variation in quality from really good to not-that-awesome. Actually, I
didn't go very often but one homebrewer who did had that to say.

Brutopia on Crescent is AFAIK the only English-speaking brewpub in town.
Their beers are closer to styles common in the US, especially when
compared with the Belgian styles at DdC. One great advantage to Brutopia
is that it's next door to Hurley's, one of the best Irish pubs in town.
While it's not a brewpub, they serve some of the best Guinness Stout you
can find and also have local dry cider. I think they call the Stout and
Cider "Black Velvet" but I get confused because some call it "Black and
Tan" and even "Snakebite."

There were other brewpubs in town but those are the main ones now. Great
places for microbrews and imports in draft include L'Barouf on Saint-Denis
and Bobards on Saint-Laurent. Getting a full 20oz. pint of Leffe brune
for Cdn$6 or less is pretty good around here.

So, if you want a tour of some of these places and/or just want to talk
homebrewing at DdC, feel free to contact me directly.
Alex
aenkerli at indiana.edu
(514)277-0715



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: brewing in space

Hi All !
 A while back people had been talking about beers in
space check this out:
Faraway astronauts must yearn sometimes for the simple
comforts of Earth
- -- like a refreshing soda or a beer after work. But
one wonders: Would the
cheerful bubbles of a space-soda rise to the top and
tickle one's nose?
And could a frosty space-beer form a proper head? 
These questions sound
tongue-in-cheek, but researchers are serious about
finding the answers. 
Recent experiments with orbiting beers and sodas
promise a more normal
day-to-day life for space settlers and offer revealing
lessons about
physics and biology in microgravity.

FULL STORY at

Suds in Space -
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast21sep_1.htm

  This is from the newsletter I get from NASA - 
    Enjoy !



=====
BIBIDI !
        Brew It Bottle It Drink It 
       Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
        Bainbridge, PA,  U.S.A.



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:43:33 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Palm (related) recipes?

Hi all:

I'm familiar with this beer, and Jan has described it to a tee -- though the
sweetness is more noticeable -- IMHO, and to my typically
Hophead-indoctrinated taste buds, that is...! :)

Along these same lines, has anyone else seen and tried Mongozo...? It's an
African-Belgian hybrid ale, with the principle ingredient being the "Palm
Nut". It tastes similar to what Jan has described for Speciale Palm, with a
slightly sweet chewiness to the finish. (Have only seen at the High Times
store in Costa Mesa, CA... so far)
Info:
http://www.globalbeer.com/web/body_pages/pages-beer/Mongozo/Mongozo.html )

Anyway, assuming that both of these ales use the same "palm"-related
ingredient(s), I'm in the same boat as Jan, in that I have no clue how to
obtain such ingredient(s) and such. Anyone else have any further experience
with this to draw upon...?

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA


>Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:15:44 -0700
> From: Jan-Willem van Groenigen <groenigen at ucdavis.edu>
> Subject: Palm recipe?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> as a Dutchman living (and brewing) in California, my wife brought me back
> some Belgian beers from her trip back home. Last night I drunk a 'Speciale
> Palm', which used to be one of my favorite beers, and I was struck by how
> different it was from anything I have tasted here in the U.S. Hops are
> virtually non existent, there is a sweetish tone, and sometimes it's
almost
> like it tastes a little bit oxidated (slight 'sherry-taste'). Since I only
> recently started brewing, I don't have a clue how I can brew a beer like
> this. Is there anybody who has a recipe for a Palm - style beer? I would
be
> forever greatful...
>
> Thanks, Jan Willem.
>



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