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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Oops! (Pat Babcock)
  Labeling Beer Bottles (Kevin White)
  re: undermodified malts ("Stephen Alexander")
  Dry Hopping . . . ("Galloway")
  Re: Labels ("Ralph Davis")
  Re: L-O-N-G Secondary (Jeff Renner)
  Re: pseudo-decoction (Jeff Renner)
  re: pseudo-decoction from a Category 5 perspective (Brian Lundeen)
  Documentation Project? (Pictures, Videos) (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Berliner Weisse (Steven S)
  Stick-on Labels ("Richard T. Perry")
  Re: Using a camp Chef indoors (Pet Rabbits & CO problems?) (Bob Sheck)
  intermediate brewing ("Sean Richens")
  RE: First Brew / Cat's Meow (Bob Sheck)
  "food-grade" washers,Thermal Mass units, Sparge Acidification, CAMRA poster (EdgeAle)
  Lambic temps (Keith Busby)
  A flavour taxonomy of hops (David Edge)
  Would You Trust This Yeast? ("Bob Hall")
  How Is Extract Mashed? ("Bob Hall")
  Spooky Brew Review 2001 ("Zemo")
  Teeshirt Contest (Pat Babcock)
  Jethro Moves On ("Rob Moline")


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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:44:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Oops!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

My apologies for the second reprint of the tee-shirt announcement. That's
what I get for using already-sent-notes as the basis for a new one :^/

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:40:32 -0400
From: Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net>
Subject: Labeling Beer Bottles

I make labels for my bottles using WordPerfect. I create a table,
make the cells 2.5 x 4 inches, and enter the brew name, style,
some clip art, brewery name, and relevant dates. I print them six
to a page, cut them with a paper cutter, and affix them to the
bottles with milk. I can label two cases of beer with less than
1/2 cup of milk. Just dip the label back in the milk, apply the
label to the bottle, wipe away excess milk, and let it dry. The
labels come off *easily* in warm water.

Kevin White
Malted Duck Brewery
Columbia, MD


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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:42:13 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at ieee.org>
Subject: re: undermodified malts

After responding twice in detail to my statement ....

>>>I'll probably get nuked for saying this, but decocting WELL
>>>MODIFIED malts is a lot like driving an off-road 4x4 vehicle
>>>on city streets.

Joel Plutchak writes ...

>I
>may have missed the part in your original assertion where
>you specified overmodified malt, [...]

It's completely unbelievable that Joel wrote torrents against a simple
sentence  in a post all about modification level without even reading it.
Obviously he has other motives than interest in brewing.

My point and the quotes from Jim Busch of Victory Brewing are complementary.
Jim believes decoction of less well modified imported malts is valuable.  I
believe that decoction of well or overmodified malts is not valuable.  There
is no conflict.

> Bottom line: if Victory decocts some of their lagers
>it's good enough for me.

If you don't know which malts are worth decoction it's a pointless effort.
Victory knows which ones - and you could to if you'd look into it.

Joel completes his post with ....

>I said:
>>If I could do that with my standard infusion mash I'd jump on it.
>>Recipes, I want recipes!  Name names!  Be specific!
>>
>>   ...and I'm still waiting.
[...]
>what blend of grain and infusion mashing
>will give me a deeply malty doppelbock?

Exactly the same malt bill that will give you big malty flavors in a
decoction plus a small bit more dark malt.   This question is completely
irrelevant to my statements, but I guess Joel didn't read those either.  Big
malty flavors come from malt selection (look to munichs and brumalts)  and
not decoction of well modified malts.   I did write, "You can often get the
same effect by judicious choice of malts or boil schedule".  If you
understood  how small these flavor diffs were for well-modified malts you
wouldn't bother asking for specifics.

IMO fresh malt, particularly for darker crystal and munich are malty flavor
factors.  Under-sparging also improves malty flavor, tho' I'd suggest
moderation.

I haven't used Weyermann's pils malt, but the generic specs show a highish
extract figure and a slightly higher viscosity.  It may be a better choice
for decoction - I can't say.  The two weyermann munichs have high
extraction, but also high protein.  No idea how they decoct but they are a
bit different from Durst specs..  I also don't know if Victory uses standard
weyermann malts or a custom maltings.

 -S




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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:04:40 -0400
From: "Galloway" <galloway at gtcom.net>
Subject: Dry Hopping . . .

Greetings All,

A query for the collective. Our homebrew club, the North Florida Brewers
League (www.nfbl.org), is having a Bottle Bill/Oktoberfest Celebraton on the
20th. A run in w/ the local BATF boys put the kabosh on the charity function
that we USED to sponsor (Note; The
BATF in general is short in the sense of humor department). At the club
brew, I brewed a Rye/Wheat "love" Ale ( a cheeky little beer, if I do say so
myself) for the festivities. I have an additional ounce of Saaz and was
wondering on the best way to dry hop in a keg, or if I should do that at
all. Thoughts?

Regards,
Dave Galloway,
Chattahoochee, FL



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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:59:40 -0400
From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
Subject: Re: Labels

Re: Re:  First brew. program request

About labels:  I use a shareware program called "Visual Labels" works pretty
good.  A good label adhesive:  Whole milk, believe it or not.  Something
about the proteins in it make the paper stick to the bottle(as long as they
stay dry), but it will easily come off later too.  Just soak the label for a
few seconds in a dish filled with the milk.  If you pack your homebrew in
ice...the labels will come off, so some guys will use messy rubber cement.

- --Ralph


Ralph W. Davis
eMs.: (h)  rdavis77 at erols.com
          (o)  ralphwdavis at yahoo.com
Tel.:   (c) 703.507.9380
ICQ#  46932212
e-Business Card Attached



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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:22:45 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: L-O-N-G Secondary

"Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net> confesses:

>I am a relatively novice brewer (compared to those who write here it
>appears) and have a quick question.  I brewed a batch of Pumpkin Ale last
>November.  I racked it into the secondary sometime in December, and there it
>still sits, covered with a black t-shirt, and much to my dismay.  It is
>still crystal clear, and seems happy.  I of course am a little disappointed
>in my self for letting it sit so long, but am still interested in the final
>product.  What do you think?  I know tasting will be the TRUE test, but how
>long can beer sit in the secondary?

IF you have minimum head space and it doesn't have things growing on 
top, it should be good, if perhaps a bit over the hill.  I suggest 
tasting it, then if it seems OK (and by this, I just mean not 
obviously nasty), then bottle it with some fresh yeast.  If it was a 
strong ale (>1.050 or so), it has a better chance of being ok.  And 
report back.

Say five "Relaxes" and go and sin no more, my son.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:30:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: pseudo-decoction

I wrote:

>BTW,

And then my mind evidently wandered and I didn't finish the thought. 
Hell, not only does my mind wander, sometimes it leaves entirely.

Anyway, what I was going to write was that after mentioning that I 
brewed a 100% dark Munich Dunkel, is that it might be a good time to 
mention that yes, Munich malt does contain sufficient enzymes to 
convert itself.  This question seems to come up every once in a while 
here.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:44:19 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: re: pseudo-decoction from a Category 5 perspective

Jeff Renner, whose fanatical desire to know our locations is becoming scary,
writes:

> The technique is to mash a half batch, bring this to a boil and boil 
> for maybe 30 minutes, then add enough water of the proper temperature 
> to achieve a proper mash temperature when you add the second half of 
> the malt and continue as usual.  This should achieve some of the 
> flavor benefits (if there are any, wink, wink) with a lot less 
> trouble.

No good can come of this, Jeff. Not only has it been clearly demonstrated
that decoction adds no flavour benefits whatsoever, but there is compelling
evidence that grains crushed in a non-adjustable Schmidling MaltMill will
actually develop HSA during the decoction, especially if the resulting wort
is boiled uncovered, then fermented in an aluminum cylindroconical fermenter
with dry yeast. Worst of all, it will affect the accuracy of Clinitest
readings.

YMMV.

Brian Lundeen

Trying hard to be funny since he has nothing useful to add to this
discussion in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada, where the Blue Bombers are kicking
butt and the Brew Bombers are kicking Bud!

http://www.winnipegbrewbombers.ca/ (seated, front, right, clearly pissed)

PS What are my coordinates, Jeff? (What REM should have called their song)


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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:04:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Documentation Project? (Pictures, Videos)

Hello all!
Got a few answers on my query about pictures and videos, some requests for
pictures and some links to personal homepages with pictures. 
At this point, a documentation project sounds like a good idea. We could
set-up a Web repository where people could post pictures and movies of
homebrewing processes and equipment. I have an old digital still camera
and will probably start documenting my next brewing session. However, I'm
not an experienced brewer or a good photographer and I don't have ready
access to a permanent Web server.
Anybody interested in making this into such a project?
In fact, it'd be a nice addition to OpenBrew...
Thanks!

Alex, in Montreal



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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:48:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Berliner Weisse


How similar to the real thing is the imported Berliner Weisse (bottled)?

I found a single 6 pack at my local store and picked it up ($13.99 egad!),
while i like the brew its a bit more sour than i expected. Not as sour as
say a lambic but i was expecting something more like a wheat beer.



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. 
And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937




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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 09:38:55 +1200
From: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Stick-on Labels

Labels - you asked about
>I'm more interested in easily removable, perhaps even reusable (?? What a 
>concept!) labels. Stick-on, peel-off maybe?

I've been experimenting with this myself. I used to use Post-it notes,
but the buggers kept falling off and then I had to figure out
what was in the bottle by drinking...

After far too many hangovers, I found a better way.

Avery makes labels that are designed to be easily removed.
I use part number #6464, which are called "White Removable
Multi-Purpose Labels" (formerly 'Remove 'Em') They're 3.33" by 4" and
pull off easily leaving no detectable residue. Come in packages of 150
per (6 to a sheet.) Usually I squeeze 3 batches out of a package.

I've tried both my home inkjet and (shhh, don't tell anyone) my work
laser printer. The laser holds up far better under moisture than the
inkjet does, but of course, it's black and white where the inkjet is
color. Assuming you (like I do, most of the time) pour your beer from
the bottle to a glass before imbibing, then prop up the bottle like a
beer shrine and toast the empty bottle occasionally, you should get
good service out of these either way. Also, the orginal poster replied
to me privately and told me that his Lexmark inkjet was supposedly
colorfast/waterproof. I know my Epson certainly isn't. YMMV, I guess.

The ONLY time I've had trouble removing the labels is if they get really
wet (like in an ice bath for an hour or so.) Then they will get
"wrinkly" and the glue seems to set better. They still come off without
a big problem, but usually in multiple pieces with a minimum of help
from a Scotchbrite pad, rather than one pull by hand.

Software wise, I don't use any specialized program. I start in Corel
Draw(or Paint) and get everything perfect, then rotate it 90 degrees
(to fit sideways - so the 4" side is up). Save as a JPEG and drop it
into MS Word (which has a template for the 6464 labels all set up.)
Copy and paste five times to fill up the page. I tried building it all
up in MS Word, and it does work, but it's really annoying. MS Word has
no way to "rotate" things like Corel does, so you have to build it all
up working sideways. Hard on the neck and brain. Also, if you build it
in MS Word, you're dependent on the fonts that are installed on the
machine you print it on if you take it "somewhere else" to use that
really cool color laser in the office three doors down. If the font you
used at home isn't on the machine you load it on, it will substitute,
which may not work for your "look".

The reason I use MS Word for the "back end" - Corel Draw is a little
specialized (although all you really need is a program that does what
you need it and can output a jpeg file), but MS Word is so ubiquitous,
it's easy to drop on a floppy and take to other places.

If anyone is interested, email me - I'll be glad to send you samples of
what I'm doing.

Regards,

Richard T. Perry                perryrt at hotmail.com\
Kwajalein, Republic of the Marshall Islands
"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every
morning if I've seen God; do you really think he
expects me to point Him out?"
"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop
asking."

Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South




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Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 18:38:37 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: Re: Using a camp Chef indoors (Pet Rabbits & CO problems?)

George offers some advice to Gary- but the biggest 
problem about letting cold air into the basement while 
boiling wort (or water) is going to have the steaming wort 
condense on EVERYTHING cooler than itself!

This WILL make a giant mess, trust me. 

If you must do this, then rig a vent to the outside for not
only the burners but ALSO the kettle!

While not as severe as winters in Chi-town, I was relegated to
brew, if I must, outside in Germantown, MD for about 5 yrs
(winter and summer) before we moved to NC.

Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC
bsheck at skantech.net



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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 08:44:00 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: intermediate brewing

This won't help Stephen from Sydney, except as sympathy, but in retrospect
intermediate brewing is the intellectually challenging stage.  You have more
variables to deal with, many of which are beyond your control.  This is
where you cut your teeth and learn the hard lessons before you "graduate" to
the simpler process of pouring hot water onto crushed grain.

I suggest you get reading.  There is little, except maybe Papazian's _The
New Complete Joy of Home Brewing_ which covers this stage (oh, yeah,
Miller's _Brewing the World's Great Beers_ also).  I suggest finding a copy
of _Malting and Brewing Science_ by Briggs and Hough (is that right?) or the
textbook by Dr. Narziss at a library somewhere and just reading it through.
Brewing software is also instructive - try Promash, or the recipe calculator
at www.brewery.org.  Use it like an educational simulator.

If you can get consistent beers out of partial mashes and equipment in a
state of constant revision, full mashes will be a snap, and you'll know
enough about brewing to pontificate with the best of them.

Sean Richens
Winnipeg
srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca




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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 10:59:54 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE: First Brew / Cat's Meow

Gerard Goossens wrote-
>I have made my first brew and will bottle it this evening.
>I am looking for a easy program for making beer labels.

I use WordPerfect, or Word. Use whatever you like. There 
are specific programs available for this but why spend extra
for what you may already have.

Now as for the Cat's Meow- 

There are too many recipes in there that describe poor or just plain
wrong procedures to make beer. Sure, they work- it's difficult to prevent
beer from happening- but the level of home brewing has risen a considerable
amount since the days when the CM was the definitive book in home brew.

try http://byo.com/recipe/402.html for an idea. Read Zymurgy mag- 
or other _current_ sources.  Check the archives of the HBD too 
(but don't go too far back in
time~)

Remember, this should be FUN not work!

Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC 
bsheck at skantech.net



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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:08:39 EDT
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: "food-grade" washers,Thermal Mass units, Sparge Acidification, CAMRA poster

1st an answer ...

Bill Dubas asks about high-temp food-grade washers that won't deform.

I use homemade washers I cut out of a sheet of teflon. Go to your local 
plastic supply warehouse and see if you can get a piece out of their scrape 
bin for cheap (or free) as you won't need much. If you don't have a supply 
outlet in town, www.usplastics.com will probably sell you a small sheet but 
it might be pricy for just a washer.
 

 ... and now3 Q's

1) What are the units for the thermal masses being thrown out for Promash. I 
use my own Excel spreadsheet and would like to compare the thermal masses I 
use but I need to know the Promash units for that.

2) I know a fellow brewer who is trying to be frugal by making a second 
runnings beer (with rice added for extra cheap fermentables). He has 
complained of a "tea" flavor. "Aha!, I said you are extracting too many 
tannins during the second sparge. Try acidifying your sparge water to <= pH=6 
to avoid this." Now, after reading the many postings saying that acidifying 
the sparge water results in an overly dry and poorly tasting beer I am 
wondering about my advice to him. Should I adjust my advice? How about 
suggesting instead that he measure the pH of the second runnings and only 
acidify the sparge water enough to keep the wort <=6 (not the sparge water 
itself) ? Is there a better acid than lactic acid to use to avoid "dry/bad" 
flavors?

3) Does anyone out there have a graphics file (gif,jpeg,etc.) of the recent 
CAMRA poster based on "American Beauty" with hops replacing the rose-petals? 
I would apreciate anyone would could point me towards one somewhere on the 
net or would could email me a copy if available.

Thanks,
Dana Edgell


- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle


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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:46:22 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Lambic temps

I have finally undertaken the great lambic adventure. Two batches are 
currently fermenting with reg'lar yeasts and I will pitch the Wyeast lambic 
blend in a day or so, adding the individual bugs a various stages later; I 
intend to rack one of the batches onto fruit. My question concerns the 
temperature of the long-term storage in secondary. The options are 
basically the utility room at 70F or the unfinished part of the basement at 
60F. Which would be preferable? Getting the beer down in the basement would 
be a struggle, so how necessary/desirable would it be?

Keith Busby

Keith Busby
Professor of French
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706

(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)



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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:33:29 +0100
From: David Edge <badger at sett.u-net.com>
Subject: A flavour taxonomy of hops

Greetings Pivonauts!

We're beginning full mash ale brewers in Burton on Trent. Ralf did a week's
brewing on work experience from school at the Burton Bridge Brewery,
a local micro, that set us off.

The beer range is developing, successful beers we would re-brew are
Brummy Git Mild (1032), Lower Quadrant, an astringent bitter (1044),
Fogsignal, a malty ale (1052), 'Sorta Porta' a robust porter (1046),
Orange Wit (1048), 78/- Oatmeal Stout (the Durden Park 63/-
but the efficiency was better than expected, 1059).

We produce circa 40 litre batches in a Burco boiler and are gradually
building up the kit; a hot liquor tank is next, for safety reasons.
We suspect our hop utilisation is low, because the Promash
_calculated_ IBUs for the beers we like vary from 65 at 1040
to 100 at 1060. Either that or we've blown our taste buds to bits;
but then we don't necessarily find commercial beers underhopped,
so suspect the former.

We've had a couple of acid-producing infections lately and idly
wondered whether we could pickle onions in the resulting liquids.

Anyway, the question, which I hope will extract much collective wisdom...

There are lots of hop varieties out there and authors generally
categorise them as aroma or bittering and then list them A-Z and
list substitutes which implicitly group them. The list below
has been teased out from such lists with a little librarianship. However, 
we've only seen one attempt to categorise at a second
level (George Fix's) and that seemed to be more about origin
than flavour.

Given that hops are generally best fresh, we'd rather standardise
on a small range of varieties that we can turn over quickly. (Suspect
we wouldn't learn much from the 1997 Mount Hood on sale
in one UK homebrew shop.) Ideally these would represent the main
taste classes; having successfully got to grips with these, we could
try fine tuning (Lublin vice Saaz, for example).

So; how would the members of the collective group hops by flavour?
Or to put the question another way, if you were marooned on a desert
island with only four or five varieties salvaged from the wreckage which
would they be? Our groups are below; the first is the easiest to get here;
your thoughts please, ladies and gentlemen...

EK Goldings
	Bramling Cross, Fuggles, WGV, Progress, Willamettes, Styrian Goldings

Challenger
	Northdown, Cascade, Centennial

Hallertauer
	Mount Hood, Pacific Hallertauer, Hersbruecker, Crystal, Liberty

Saazer
	Tettnanger, Spalter, Lublin

Northern Brewer
	Northdown, Target, Yeoman, Zenith, Progress, Brewer's Gold, Bullion

Cluster
	Perle, Galena, Eroica, Chinook


- --
Ralf and David Edge
Signalbox Brewery, Burton-on-Trent, UK


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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:59:38 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: Would You Trust This Yeast?

Two weeks ago I dropped in on the LBS looking for yeast for a helles. The 
only lager yeast with an acceptable expiration date was White Lab German 
Lager, so I'm using that. However, the owner reached into the back of the 
cooler and pulled out a standard smack-pack of Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager, 
expiration date 12-01-99, and tossed it in for (obviously) no charge. I 
smacked the pack that night and now, weeks later, the pack has swelled. I 
moved the contents to a starter jug this morning. Once built-up, would this 
yeast be acceptable to use or could you expect some mutation or other 
problems two years past the expiration date?

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:09:51 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: How Is Extract Mashed?

I've begun to use step-mashing instead of single-temp infusion for some of 
my light malt recipes such as kolsch ale. I'm very pleased with the depth of 
flavor and mouthfeel that has been produced. It made me wonder how such 
control could be achieved if using extracts. Are light DMEs produced with 
single infusion, stepped temps, etc? I assume it varies according to 
manufacturer, but I've never seen anything on a package that would indicate 
how the extract wort was originally mashed.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 17:36:37 -0500
From: "Zemo" <zemo at buyvictory.com>
Subject: Spooky Brew Review 2001

Chicago Beer Society presents

SPOOKY BREW REVIEW 2001 - October 27, 2001 - 9am-5pm

This year's location is Flatlander's Restaurant and Brewery
200 Village Green - Lincolnshire, IL http://www.flatlanders.com

You're proud of your brews, right? So enter them and see what the
judges think. Or, you can doctor up a beer (it has to be drinkable!)
and enter it as a Spooky Brew, "The Scariest Brew". Do you have a
brew that you wouldn't even serve to your mother-in-law, possibly
your worst ever? Then enter it as a "Smashed Pumpkin", you could
be rewarded for it!

Entry forms are available at http://www.chibeer.org/spooky01.pdf

Judges and stewards needed. Contact Dave Newman at
dave at chibeer.org

(BJCP/AHA Sanctioned)

For those of you in the Greater Chicagoland area, entries
with completed forms and fees can be dropped off - from
October 13-20 - at:

The Homebrew Shop
225 W. Main St.
St. Charles, IL 60174
(630) 377-1338

The Brewer's Coop
30W114 Butterfield Road
Warrenville, Illinois 60555
630.393-BEER (2337)

Beer Gear
7901 W. 159th St.
(inside the Threshold Music bldg.)
Tinley Park, IL  60477
(708) 342-BEER (2337)

and, of course, at Flatlander's
222 Village Green
Lincolnshire, IL
(847) 821-1234

You can't enter early, but you can enter often!

Zemo - zemo at chibeer.org
Head Organizer - I organize the heads!



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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt Contest

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Wow! There have been a couple submissions to the teeshirt
competition since my last posting. Unfortunately, I have an exam
Monday (today, if this posts on time), so I have not yet made
them available for review. Promise to by next Monday! 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:57:27 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at home.com>
Subject: Jethro Moves On

Jethro Moves On..

	New Address..
jethrogump at home.com

Cheers,
and May Freedom Ring.....
Gump



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