HOMEBREW Digest #3757 Wed 10 October 2001

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  Kegging ("Chad W. Kennedy")
  two questions (Casey)
  Re: Stick-on Labels (gsferg)
  Haziness (Len Safhay)
  re: jockey box plumbing ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  haziness and hop plugs ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: Stick-on Labels (Jeff Renner)
  Fruit purees ("Kensler, Paul")
  Final Gravity (jeff storm)
  ...water loss during boil (thager)
  IOD4 ("Hill, Steve")
  re: Lactobacillus (paszkiet)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:31:35 -0700 From: "Chad W. Kennedy" <ckennedy at clipper.net> Subject: Kegging I'm new to kegging and have a few questions. My first kegged batch seemed a little flat. I primed 5 gal with 1/2 cup of dextrose and let it condition for 10 days. I set the regulator at just about 5 lbs to push the beer. I don't have room for an extra fridge so I serve the beer at 65 deg. F in cold glasses which drops the temp down to about 55 deg- perfect serving temp if you ask me. I was worried that the beer would foam since it was so warm but I didn't seem to have that problem. Do you think I'm loosing dissolved CO2 as the beer chills in the glass, thus giving me flat beer? I then used about 28lbs of CO2 to force carbonate the beer. I shook it vigorously until it quit accepting gas. That's the stage that I'm at now. So how much psi do I use to serve the beer? Any ideas on keeping the kegs cool without a new refrigerator? A jockey box would be OK accept that I'd have to clean it after every use- that's daily for me. Is it worth keg conditioning or should I just force carbonate? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. CK Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:46:53 -0700 From: Casey <acez at mindspring.com> Subject: two questions Hey all, I've come up with a few questions. #1: It is my understanding that in decoction mashing, you take off a bit of the grains and boil them and add them back to the original mash. What is the purpose of this? And wouldn't boiling actual grains lead to the release of tanins? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the procedure. #2: I just recently got my dad back into making wine and I was trying to help him out, applying some of the beer making techniques to his wine process. I suggested shaking his 'wort' (grape juice) before and after pitching and stiring it to aerate it. But he referred to the 'directions' which made no mention of this. Is aeration necessary for wine? I would imagine that the wine yeast would need it just as much as beer yeast. #3: In wines, how come in france they do the whole smashing grapes with your toes thing and don't worry about infection like us beer guys do? Thanks in advance, Casey Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 07:06:46 -0400 From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net Subject: Re: Stick-on Labels David Houseman said: >For ease of labeling bottles for identification purposes (utilitarian, not >for looks), self-stick 3/4" round labels (Avery and others, about $3.95/1000 > -- that's many batches) fit just right on the caps of beer bottles. I like that idea. I'd thought of it already but haven't tried it yet. I've got a large supply of blank bottle caps and I've been using a magic marker to put a number on the cap- I'm up 12 since I started keeping records (this is it's a bit like the old joke about the prison inmates who tell jokes by referring to a number because they've all heard them so many times..) These stick on labels would give me a little more room for misc. info like a short name and bottling date- then I wouldn't have to keep referring to my log book :) I would like to occassionally put some Real labels on the bottles themselves and there have been a number of good suggestions here. I'm liking the idea of whole milk as an adhesive for plain old paper labels. I'll also look around for some of those "clap on, clap off" self-adhesive labels. Thanks All, George- From Whitefield Maine- A small town where the population never changes: everytime a baby is born, a man leaves town. - -- George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net> Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist PGP Key: http://clary.gwi.net/gsferg/gsferg at clary.asc - -------------- I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:08:09 -0400 From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net> Subject: Haziness Rod Milligan asks: >How in the world can I clear up the haziness? Are there any tips or tricks out there?> Quite a few things you can try, Rod. For starters, in future batches you might try a more flocculant yeast strain. These settle out better, leaving a clearer beer. You can get info on the relative flocculance of strains at the web sites of White Labs, Wyeast, Brewtek, etc.Use irish moss or whirlfloc during the last 15 minutes of the boil. Make sure you do a good, vigorous boil. This will result in a good "hot break". Whirlpool the wort, and try to leave as much of this material in the kettle as possible. Then, if you have (or someday when you have) the equipment, cool the wort as rapidly as possible.A counterflow chiller works best for this. This results, in a "cold break": more gunk precipitates out. I've had good luck with Clearfine, added to your bottling bucket at bottling time. Primarily attaches itself to yeast particles, but seems to have some effect on suspended proteins as well. To clear an existing batch, try crash cooling. Bring the whole batch down to around 40 degrees or less, and leave it there for a week or so. This will cause the chill haze particles to precipitate out of the beer and eventual settle out to the point where the won't reenter suspension in the beer. You're correct to assume you didn't need a protein rest. In fact, with fully modified, low protein pale malts (virtually all of them, these days) a protein rest would result in a beer that was very light in body and had bad head retention (or head creation, for that matter!) properties. Good luck! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:38:04 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: jockey box plumbing Brett mentions jockey box troubles, >> we had some foaming problems dispensing the commercial beers when the unit was plumbed as above, but the cornie kegs of homebrew worked marvelously well by comparison<< What were the respective temperatures of the commercial vs homebrew kegs? A cold-plate or jockey box is meant for cooling and serving beer simultaneously. That is how the high driving pressures don't overcarbonate the beer. If the beer is cold already then the high pressure overcarbonates the beer. I don't have my charts handy but I seem to remember that those pressures 30lb at 68 degrees give the normal 2.5 volumes of carbonation. The plumbing specs of the jockey box seem correct. There is some variation from manufacturer to manufacturer and the internal design of the plate so some fiddling with the pressure is needed. Or maybe it's a comment on commercial beer from the homebrew deities <g> NPL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:39:17 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: haziness and hop plugs Rod in Illinois asked about his hazy brews. I have a few suggestions - try american 2-row instead of british 2row or pale if you are using it. British grains tend to tr throw some haze if served too cool instead of at "cellar temp". Also, some questions on your process - do you bottle condition or keg? Do you ferment primary only or do you use both a primary and secondary? Also, what yeasts have you experienced this with - some take longer to settle out even at cooler temps? I have seen even my hefeweizens drops clear after 6 to 8 weeks in the keg in the cold fridge with no disturbing them to yield clear beer. Do you circulate your mash until relatively clear? Also, do you possibly oversparge? How vigorous and how long do you boil as boiling helps with hot break which should help with haziness? Additionally, when I dry hop my IPAs, they tend to pick up a bit of a haze as well. I only use irish moss in the last 10 minutes of a strong boil to help clarify, nothing more. Greg asks about hop plugs. I have actually seen an increase at my local HBS in plubs they are stocking this fall as compared to last fall. They always have plenty of pellets but plugs seem to be increasing in supply atleast here in upstate NY. Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:54:32 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Stick-on Labels Dave Houseman wrote from an undisclosed location and Steve Funk wrote from Stevenson, Washington that they use 3/4" round Avery stick on labels on their bottle caps. To take this a step further, AABG member Ed Lustenader has written a little Excel file to print up to six tiny lines of print on these round labels. Since the sheets are are something like 4x6 inches, you have to first print on a sheet of regular paper, then position the label sheet on top of the printing and tape it in place and run it through the printer again (unless your printer can handle little sheets). Not a big deal. Saves trouble writing, lets you put more information on a cap than you could do easily by hand, and looks spiffy. I can send this file to anyone who wants it. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:18:58 -0400 From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com> Subject: Fruit purees Keith asked for opinions on whole fruit vs. fruit purees (like Oregon brand). I just made an apricot ale (no flames please - its for my wife!) and I used the Oregon fruit puree for the first time. Here's my thoughts: Pros: It was convenient to just open the can and dump it in the fermenter - no picking, peeling, blanching, cutting, etc. It was cheaper than buying apricots at the grocery store; especially once you eliminate skins and pits and other loss you get more pound of fruit per dollar with the puree than at the grocery store. With other fruits, it might still be cheaper at the grocery store. Cons: Being a very fine puree, it left an amazing amount of sludge at the bottom of the fermenter and I had to leave the beer sit for a very long time to get any reasonable amount of settling. It was two months old and had been racked several times before I could keg it. Fortunately I anticipated this and brewed about 6 gallons, so I was still able to fill my 5 gallon keg. Even so, I regret the loss of that other gallon... Its more expensive than going to a farmer's market or a U-pick place and processing the fruit yourself. I've done several fruit beers in the past using whole fruit and all things considered, I will probably make the effort to use fresh whole fruit from the local orchard before I use the puree again. I've had great success using whole fruit that has been coarsely chopped - the fermentation extracts all the flavor and aroma and sugars and its easy to rack off the chunky fruit at the end of fermentation. The puree worked fine, it just left a ton of sludge which ended up costing me extra time (settling) and work (multiple rackings). So either way you're in for some extra work, I suppose it just depends on where and how you want to do it. If I could figure out a way to retain the finished beer and hold back the solids (some sort of coarse filter) I'd like the purees a lot better. I've tried coffee filters and handkerchiefs and they are just too fine - the puree clogs them. I've tried those nylon bags you use for steeping grains or hops, and they are just too coarse - all the puree flows right through. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Approximately [135,400] Rennarian, using the Henning coordinate system Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: jeff storm <stormyjeff at rocketmail.com> Subject: Final Gravity Is there a formula for determining final gravity or a style guideline for final gravity? I am a newer brewer doing all grain and I use ProMash. Is there a calculation for final gravity on the software? Thanks Jeff Storm San Jose CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:12:16 -0700 From: thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us Subject: ...water loss during boil From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Troy Hager wrote, "Another thought is that most brewery kettles are enclosed vessels where a large portion of the exhaust is condensed on the inside and runs back into the wort. I wonder if some of what is in this condensation are beneficial flavors/components that hbers are loosing when we evaporate so much." I don't have the book with me now, but SAB's staff manual deals with maintenance procedures for the condensation traps in their boilers. The traps are found in the chimney's of the boilers. One of their regular tests is to spray water in the trap to ensure that it can drain quickly enough to prevent condensate running back into the wort. The manual states that this can result in off flavours. ________________________________________________________ Condensation flowing out of a stuck trap back into the kettle was not my point at all... What I was saying was that in a mostly covered boil (as brewery kettles are), much of the condensation will collect on the top and sides of the kettle and drip back into the wort. I was wondering what kind of effects that might have *other* than on the evaporation rate... i.e. flavor/chemical contributions - This is in direct contrast to the usual HBers open boil where very little condensation is returned to the boil. A minor point, I'll admit but the wheels were spinin'! Troy SF Peninsula, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:45:13 -0400 From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com> Subject: IOD4 Question for the collective. I was wondering with what is going on with the world today, if I were to sanitize water with IOD4 and then keg it. How long do you think the shelf life would be? Would I be able to drink this water if i boiled it? Would the IOD4 evaporate out from boiling? And yes, this a serious question, and yes, I have kegs full of beer already. Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:35:39 GMT From: paszkiet at xecu.net Subject: re: Lactobacillus Andrew asked: >Subject: Lactobacillus >But being a bacteria, what does the Lactobacillus feed on? Dormant yeast >cells? We want to know, so if we decide to rack the beer before pitching >the Lactobacillus, we don't eliminate it's "food source". If you could >please give us a little more info on the Bacteria, we'd appreciate it. The best batch of Berliner Weisse I have made so far was by pitching the L. delbrueckii first. I then waited a few days (maybe 3-4) tasting each day until the wort started to get sour. At that point, I pitched in the yeast (American Ale Wyeast 1056) and let the beer ferment out. This beer had a very pleasant sourness to it. I even still have a few bottles left, and it continues to taste very good. In another attempt, I added yeast and bacteria at the same time. This batch this (I think it is going on 2-3 years old now), and it is still not sour. What I figure is that the yeast consumed all of the nutrients before the bacteria got growing (L. delbrueckii tends to grow very slowly, and it has very specific nutrient requirements). So, to answer the question above, the bacteria feast on the same nutrients as do the yeast. It helps to get the bacteria in there before the yeast, so they have something to eat before the yeast eat everything. Hope this helps, Brian P. Frederick, MD Return to table of contents
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