---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Scotch Ale (Casey)
  re: Pumpkin in a can (Andy Woods)
  Re:CO2 cylinder certification ("Dennis Collins")
  Re: CO2 Cylinder Certification (Todd Goodman)
  counterflow chillers ("the freeman's")
  Labels & Cap Codes ("John Herman")
  Greetings ("Wolff, Robert")
  re: Cranberry Beer ("Kensler, Paul")
  Re: winemaking (Jeff Renner)
  Palm Pilot Utilities. ("Hornberger, Brent")
  Split Rock Homebrew Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Palm Pilot info ("Rogers, Mike")
  Re: French Method (Jeff Renner)
  Spooky Brew Staggers Into The 21st Century... ("Zemo")
  Re: palm brewing (joseph540)
  HBD Community Red Cross Fund Status (Richard Foote)
  Palm Brewing software ("Doug Hurst")
  BONES BASH - Final Call for entries (Bill Wible)
  How to Chill Your Homebrew Using Advanced Physics ("Bret Mayden")
  Re: Labeling bottles (Brian Levetzow)
  Tetley's Recipe. (William Jones)


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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:16:38 -0700
From: Casey <acez at mindspring.com>
Subject: Scotch Ale

Yet more questions: I'm really full of it...err...inquisitivness, I
mean. So I'm making a scotch ale (wee heavy) and It's happily in the
secondary at the moment, after about 2 weeks in the primary. Primary
fermentation went great - I pitched two starters of Edinburgh ale yeast
and it fermented at about 75 F in my closet. I now have it in a freezer
at about 67 F and pitched another starter from the yeast at the bottom
of the primary. The gravity out of the primary was 1.034 and it was
about 1.078 OG. I want to get it to about 1.025...however, after a few
days in the primary, I'm not seeing much activity at all. Do you think
it the yeast will chomp it down to 1.025, or should I pitch some
champaign yeast. Or perhaps a lager strain and cold condition it,
perhaps. On that note, I hear sometimes people cold condition scotch
ales for about 2 months or so. Wouldn't that make the ale yeast go
dormant? Whats up with that? Let me know your thoughts. I kinda like my
lager yeast (maybe something to give it a nice malty finish) idea. That
would be kinda cool.

I kinda messed up the style anyways, as they were outta the malt I
needed and its too dark. Time to just have fun.

Please let me know - thanks,
Casey





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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 02:22:03 -0400
From: Andy Woods <woods_a at ACADMN.MERCER.EDU>
Subject: re: Pumpkin in a can

> Question: What is the proper method for using pumpkin "puree" in a can. This
> is the store bought, Libby's brand canned pumpkin meat. No added flavors or
> any of that, just pureed pumpkin.

Steve Lane,

  I recently brewed a extract Pumpkin Ale and this is what i did.  I went with 
whole pumpkin instead of canned.  I cut, cleaned, spiced about 1-1.25 lbs of 
pumpkin and cooked in the oven  at  300 degrees for 1 hour...Just until the 
pumpkin becomes soft, this is so the sugars are easier to handle and more 
flavor will come to a brew.  Took the pumpkin and placed it inside a grain bag 
so i didnt have to deal with the mess.  Steeped the pumpkin and the grains 
together for 20 min till 180 deg.  Added the LME and I decided to let the 
pumpkin boil for 20 min for the hell of it.  Im going for a light pumpkin 
flavor, not a heavey pumpkin/veggy brew.  I read from BYO magazine this month 
that the Lakefront Brewery only uses 0.064 lb of pumpkin per gallon.

  I tasted the wort after taking the gravity, and it was a very mellow/suttle
pumpkin taste - not a liquid pumpkin pie.  Very similiar to the taste of honey
in a Honey Mai Bock.  I guess with 3 cans your trying to go for a stronger 
pumpkin taste.

  Im only familiar with a few breweries and wonder if Troegs (PA), App. Brew 
Co(PA), Texas Cattle Co. (GA) are trying this style of beer this season.  Id 
love to see what they come up with.

  Doing an all grain version of this seems to be a mess with the pumpkin, and 
i've read some horror stories in the archives about this.  So, I guess i got 
lucky.

Andy
woods_a at acadmn.mercer.edu



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:16:10 -0400
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re:CO2 cylinder certification

Tim asks about CO2 cylinder recertification.  When I bought my CO2 cylinder,
I was told that rarely would it be refilled and given back to me.  What is
more likely is that they (they being the gas supply company) will take your
cylinder and swap that out with another used cylinder that they have which
is already full.  Well, needless to say, I have no idea where my original
cylinder is that I bought, I just keep getting a different one every time I
need CO2.

In your case Tim, I would just use up what I had in that cylinder that you
have, then take it to your local gas supply place and swap it out for
another one.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN





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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:16:59 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: CO2 Cylinder Certification

* Tim Membrino writes in HBD #3758:
> Is it reasonable to wait until the tank is empty before getting it
> recertified or should I play it safe and purge the tank and bring it in for
> certification now?  Any suggestions for where to bring the tank (I'm located
> outside of Boston MA).
> 
> Tim Membrino
> Acton, MA

Hi Tim,

If it were I, then I'd wait until the tank was finished before bringing
it in.  The only place around Acton that I'm aware of is Wesco gases in
Billerica (near Burlington on the Middlesex Turnpike).

That said, what I've found to be the best is to contact Coke.

I get a 20lb CO2 tank for a $40.00 deposit and then $13.00 for each
refill.

They've cracked down recently and begun to enforce their rules for not
allowing a cylinder in a personal auto, but they've been good about
working with me to find a restaurant or business that gets coke
deliveries and then tagging the tank along with that.

Much better price than refilling around here and you don't have to worry
about the hydro testing yourself.

Todd
Westford, MA


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 07:46:16 -0500
From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: counterflow chillers

I use 2 Precision Brewing  http://www.pbsbeer.com/  Maxichillers on "the
perfesser" .   One serves as a heat exchanger (reverse from chilling to
heating) and the other as a regular chiller.  In the instance of the all
copper Maxi, the length is inconsequential as the temps recieved are
within less than 1 degree of the water input.  In my case the
compactness of the chillers is important.

Midwest Brewer of the BrewRats has built his own counterflow for a
dollar figure much less than that charged by the commercial suppliers.
This option is always viable if you are "handy".

Hope this helps,

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL





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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:48:45 -0400
From: "John Herman" <jherman5 at nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Labels & Cap Codes

My method for Cap Codes is slightly different.  I use an alpha code for the
style ( ESB, ST ) but I use a 4 digit bottling code.  This way I know how
prematurely I am drinking my beer.

John Herman
jherman5 at nyc.rr.com



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:00:20 -0400
From: "Wolff, Robert" <robert.wolff at lmco.com>
Subject: Greetings

Just wanted to say Hi to everyone. I have been away for 2 1/2  years. 
Hopefully I can add some helpful insight to brewing and winemaking.
For the record I have a full RIMS (20 gal capacity). Designed it and
purchased the equipment from Precision Brewing in NY. I have brewed one time
with it.  An English ale with some added biscuit malt and lots of Fuggles.
Braam,.
How ya doin' pal? Keep the sharks away this weekend.





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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:12:36 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: Cranberry Beer

Colby,
I've made a few cranberry beers - all of them based on a simple blonde ale /
wheat ale recipe (your standard fruit-beer base).  I'd have to check my
notes at home to remember the exact amounts of cranberry I used, but I can
recall some general information.

I decided to sanitize / rinse them which is extremely easy with StarSan or
any other no-rinse sanitizer.  Just make up a few gallons of sanitizer in a
bucket and dump the cranberries in.  They float, so it helps to stir them up
with your hands and push them down for a couple minutes.  You'll be amazed
at the amount of dirt and stuff you find at the bottom of the bucket when
you're done.  Its easy to scoop them out with a small colander or large
slotted spoon, etc.  I let them drip dry in a large colander for a couple
minutes before continuing...

After sanitizing, I lightly crushed them in a large bowl using a potato
masher, put them in gallon ziplock bags, and froze them.  The freezing
really does help burst open the cells, and you get a lot better color
extraction.

You have to use a lot of cranberries to get a real "cranberry" flavor and
color, even in a very lightly flavored pale beer.  At lower levels they just
contribute a nice fruitiness, tartness, acidity and some pale color but most
people don't recognize it as cranberry, even after you tell them.  I have to
check my notes to remember, but I think I used up to 6 or 8 pounds and still
didn't have a strong cranberry flavor.

Somebody - I think its Knudsens - makes an all-natural 100% cranberry juice
and concentrate (as opposed to Ocean Spray and the like which are mostly
apple / grape juice and are loaded with preservatives).  I used to get mine
at Whole Foods Market.  Using this gave me the most significant color and
flavor contribution - I think I recall using a whole bottle of the juice in
addition to maybe 5 or 6# of cranberries.


I hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:18:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: winemaking

Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>, who forgot to tell us where he 
was writing from, but we remember it's [314, 829] Rennerian in 
Winnipeg, wrote:

>  > #3: In wines, how come in france they do the whole smashing
>>  grapes with
>>  your toes thing and don't worry about infection like us beer guys do?
>
>First of all, apart from a few rustic wines made by peasants, this practice
>is not that common
><snip>
>Best way I've found? Wash my arm and
>just get in there with my hand. Besides being easy, its also an incredibly
>sensuous feeling plunging your arm through the hot cap into the
>comparatively cool frothing juice below.

This reminds me of one of my favorite wine making memories.  About 20 
years ago  friend of mine got several hundred pounds of hybrid wine 
grapes.  My friend inherited his Croatian father's wine making 
equipment, including a huge wine barrel with no lid for crushing the 
grapes.  I had crushed grapes by foot before, but only in a tub, and 
alone.  But an attractive girl friend of his wife was visiting and 
wanted to try.

I'm not sure how much wine of a previous vintage we'd had, but soon 
the two of us were standing in the barrel together stomping grapes. 
She was slender, as was I, but there still wasn't much room.  So we 
had to stand very, very close.  And hold onto one another.  It was 
like close slow dancing.  And, as Brian says, grapes are very 
sensuous, especially popping and squishing under your feet.  It's 
probably a really good thing for my marriage that my friend was there 
chaperoning!

The wine turned out great!  I  heartily recommend this method of wine making.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:35:32 -0500
From: "Hornberger, Brent" <Brent.Hornberger at wcg.com>
Subject: Palm Pilot Utilities.

http://www.promash.com/PilotBrew/index.html has a few utilities for the
palm. Hydro calc, Alc%. calc, & first strike calc. I've used these on and
off over a few months. Another thing I use is a simple shopping program that
i can see what I have in inventory for grains, hops & yeast and what I need
to buy. What I woudl like to see is being able to export promash recipies to
my palm pilot.

Brent


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:39:55 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Split Rock Homebrew Competition

The Annual Homebrew Competition at Split Rock Resorts will take place on
November 17th at the Split Rock Resort at Lake Harmony in the Pennsylvania
Poconos.  This annual competition will be coincident with the Great Brews of
American Beer Classic Beer Festival.   Information about this competition
can be found at the web site:  http://www.splitrockresort.com/beerfest.html.
Beer, Mead and Cider will be judged.  The Homebrewers Competition is
sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association. The fee is $5.00 per
entry and benefits the National Multiple Sclerosis Society.   Entrants and
Judges should call 1-800-225-7625 x815 to have entry forms mailed or faxed
to you.  
Brewers, please enter your beers as this competition aids a very good cause,
MS.  Judges, please register to judge and you can enjoy free attendance at
the beer festival or the beer dinner on Saturday night.  
David Housemanall Call 1-800-255-7625 x815 to have an Official Entry Form
sent or faxed to you.
1-800-255-7625 x815 to have an Official Entry Form sent or faxed to you.
 



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:45:28 -0400
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: re: Palm Pilot info

Scott, thanks for the post.  It pushed me to finally download the style
guidelines and score sheet.  The AHA publishes the BJCP guidelines in Adobe
Acrobat .PDF format.  You can download a free Acrobat reader for your palm
at  http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readerforpalm.html.  The
guidelines and score sheet can be found on the AHA site, or on the Cass
River Homebrewers website at
http://www.geocities.com/cassriverhomebrewers/beer/brewtool/brewtools.htm

Note that the guideline and score sheet .pdf files are not optimized for the
palm OS, therefore when you add the files to your palm, you will get a
message (something like...) asking if you would like to have the files
optimized for your palm.  Just click OK.  You also should choose not to
include pictures/images (another option when adding to the palm).  The
guidelines transfer great, all 24 pages!  Excellent to have at your
fingertips!  The score sheet, on the other hand, isn't as graceful.

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers (Frankenmuth, Michigan)



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:22:47 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: French Method

Alan Talman <AlannnnT at aol.com> writes of the traditional treading of 
grapes by foot:

>when they smash the grapes, with feet or without, the
>wine is already fermented. They are pressing the already fermented wine out
>of the grape skins. 
>
>The wine is highly alcoholic and very acidic at that point, so it can defend
>itself against most foot-borne nasties.

I hate to disagree with you on your first post in a while, Alan, but 
I will.  There are two separate steps - crushing and pressing.

The grapes are first crushed, either by foot or by mechanical means, 
then pressed in a wine press for the juice.  For red wines, the 
crushed grapes are usually fermented for hours or days before 
pressing, depending on how much color and tannin is wanted.  For 
whites and roses, the crushed grapes are typically pressed 
immediately to minimize color and tannin extraction.  Believe me, 
it's much easier to press crushed grapes that have fermented - they 
break down and the juice flows easily.  With unfermented crushed 
grapes it takes a whole lot more pressure.

An interesting exception to this is carbonic maceration, practiced in 
Beaujolais for the nouveau wines (and nouveau wines in other parts of 
the world).  Whole grapes are fermented under CO2, then this is 
pressed.  Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?  See 
http://www.smargherita.com/dizionario_e/carbon_maceration.html for 
details.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:07:31 -0500
From: "Zemo" <zemo at buyvictory.com>
Subject: Spooky Brew Staggers Into The 21st Century...

With Online Registration!!

That's right -  What could be simpler?

Just go to www.chibeer.org and follow the links.

Saves Time AND Paperwork!

Want to Judge or Steward?

Please contact Dave Newman - dave at chibeer.org

Any problems? Contact me - zemo at chibeer.org

To reiterate:

Chicago Beer Society Presents Spooky Brew Review 2001

October 27 - 9am to 5pm  - At Flatlander's Restaurant and
Brewery - 200 Village Green - Lincolnshire, IL  60069
www.flatlanders.com

PRIZES!  RIBBONS!  RAFFLE!  GREAT BEER & FOOD!

And if you're in the Greater Chicagoland Area, you can drop off
your entries with paperwork and fees, Oct. 13-20, at:

The Homebrew Shop
225 W. Main St.
St. Charles, IL 60174
(630) 377-1338

The Brewer's Coop
30W114 Butterfield Road
Warrenville, Illinois 60555
630.393-BEER (2337)

Beer Gear
7901 W. 159th St.
(inside the Threshold Music bldg.)
Tinley Park, IL  60477
(708) 342-BEER (2337)

and at Flatlander's. Or you can bring them to
our monthly meeting on Oct. 17 at The Map Room
1949 N. Hoyle  Chicago, IL

See you there!

Zemo
Head Organizer - I organize the heads!



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Date: 11 Oct 2001 09:22:03 -0700
From: joseph540 at elvis.com
Subject: Re: palm brewing

Scott (who's way down in SC), asks about brewing software
 for Palm Pilots and such.  Actually, I was thinking about this 
issue not long ago, and wondered why we haven't seen review 
articles so far either here or in Zymurgy, Brew Your Own, etc.
(Or have I just missed them?)
 
First, facts.  There are a number of brewing-specific 
software titles offered at palm.com (follow the links to all of 
the software).  It is indeed difficult to sort through all of the 
titles.  The easy way is either to use their search feature for 
"beer" or "homebrewing" or to look in the software sections for 
hobbies/crafts (I forget exactly what this is category is called).  
I found several, and I tried some of them.

Now, opinions.  I personally found the software either a) too 
simplistic or b) very cumbersome to use.  There is one program 
that combines brewing notes, recipe database, and bjcp 
guidelines which is cool, but in my opinion very frustrating to 
navigate.  I actually gave up on these (figuring that it was too 
difficult to put in lots of data anyway) and got ProMash for my 
desktop.  When I did, I saw on the ProMash website that they 
are offering (or will soon?) their own "lite" version for the Palm.  
I have not tried this, and have not even seen it.  I don't know how 
costly it will be.  But if it is a reasonable price, I will probably get 
it, since it should integrate well with the desktop version that I 
usually use.

Finally, there is indeed a stand-alone BJCP guideline database ...
in fact there may be several.  The one I used was helpful and useful 
and straightforward.  It still resides on my Handspring Visor.

I know that Al Korzonas at one time was really into Palm use for 
homebrewing.  Can anyone who's well connected goad him or 
someone else into writing a review article?  I think there's a real 
need for one.

Joe (who's way up in MN)

- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free  at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:59:08 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: HBD Community Red Cross Fund Status

Brewers,

I'm happy to announce that our HB club, the Chicken City Ale Raisers raised
$236.01 for the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund!  We did so this
past Saturday during our annual brew demo at the Helen (GA) Oktoberfest.
In exchange for a donation to the fund (we put the donator's name in a
"hat"), we did hourly drawings for Helen Okotberfest liter tankards donated
to us by the Helen Chamber of Commerce.  Special thanks goes out to the NE
GA Red Cross Chapter, who trusted a bunch of homebrewers not to disgrace
their name; the Helen Chamber, for donating some really nice tankards; and
CCAR members Dennis and Richard, who "worked the crowd".

I worked with our local chapter on this so the money went to them (sorry
Pat).  However, the money is going to where it's needed.  In meeting with
our local chapter folks I learned about the thousands of meals they've
provided and continue to provide to all the volunteers and other workers
trying to undo that "mess" as well as thousands of counselings they've
provided to those psychologically scarred by these events.  

Doing what we can in NE GA,

Rick Foote
Prez (for life) CCAR
Murrayville, GA





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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:01:17 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Palm Brewing software

Scott who's Brewing and vinting in Columbia, SC asked about brewing
software for his new palm pilot.  The Promash website offers some free
applications.  There's a Hydrometer Calibration calculator, an Alcohol
calculator and a strike water calculator.
http://www.promash.com/PilotBrew/indexpp.html
I can't attest to their quality as I have yet to download them into my
new PDA.  And as usual: NAJASCYYY.

Hope this helps, 

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:46:42 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: BONES BASH - Final Call for entries


This is the final call for entries for the first
annual BONES BASH.  This competition will be held
on Saturday, October 20th, at Victory Brewing Company
in Downingtown, PA.

For entry forms and complete details, see:
http://www.brewbyyou.net/BASH/BASH.html

Thanks!

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-2739 (PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:06:07 +0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com>
Subject: How to Chill Your Homebrew Using Advanced Physics

Even if you're not a big Dave Barry fan like me, you'll get some giggles out 
this article:

http://www.miami.com/herald/special/features/barry/2001/docs/oct14.htm

Bret Mayden
Oklahoma City
brmayden at hotmail.com






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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:28:03 -0400
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at home.com>
Subject: Re: Labeling bottles

I use Avery 5160, standard labels, and MS Word.  I use an 8 pt Arial
font, and repeat this info 4x across each label.

  name of
   beer
brew: mm/dd
bott: mm/dd

I make up one label (actually, four on one Avery), copy/paste across,
and repeat until I have 48 total (12 Avery labels) for 2 cases of
bottles.  I peel off a label, cut it into the four sections, and put it
right on the caps.  As long as the name of the beer indicates style,
it's easy to keep things straight.  Easy cleanup, too!

- -- 
Delta (aka Brian)
~
Rennerian coord = [428.204618,118.63256183]
WGS84 Ellipsoidal distance / true bearing
~
For this calculation, the Center of the Homebrewing Universe
[0,0] was fixed at the intersection of Huron River Dr. and Zeeb Rd.
(is that close, Jeff?)


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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:49:36 -0400
From: William Jones <wbj59 at iwaynet.net>
Subject: Tetley's Recipe.

Hello List,

Does anyone have a recipe (extract) for Tetley's ?

Thanks

Bill
WBJ59 at iwaynet.net


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