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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Propane vs. LPG ("phil sides jr")
  RE: Homebrew Supplier in London ("Nigel Porter")
  Don't Give In to Yeast!!! ("Abby, Davey, Ellen and Alan")
  over-sparging (leavitdg)
  Rennerian Coordinates ("Brad Boes")
  bacteria...resistence? (leavitdg)
  Re: Where am I? (Jeff Renner)
  Dutch-language brewing forum ("Jan Willem van Groenigen")
  The "last word" on sparging... ("Bob Sutton")
  Propane ventilation (Rick Georgette)
  relationship between sparge temp and sparge time? (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: raspberry wheat haze (Steven S)
  Butt Ugly Barleywine Blues (a.k.a. Help, I've Created A Monster!) ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Teeshirt Competition! (Pat Babcock)


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:29:29 -0400
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at yankeebrew.com>
Subject: Re: Propane vs. LPG

Rob B <rbyrnes at ozemail.com.au> writes:

>Propane (well, in Australia at least) is the main constituent of LPG, so it
>isn't any more or less dangerous.

But doesn't it pool on the ceiling down under?  ;-)

Phil Sides Jr
Kengsington, MD
[420.7, 122.4] Rennerian

rm -rf /bin/laden





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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:06:07 +0100
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Supplier in London

Richard asks about HB supplies in & around London...

> - "The Homebrew Shop" in Farnborough (which is excellent but 
>difficult to reach)

My 'local' & it isn't difficult to reach if you live near it...

You could try 

Cheers Homebrew
94 Priory Road
Cheam
Sutton
Surrey
SM3 8LN
phone: 020 8644 0934 

again it is a little out of central london, so may be tricky to get to via 
public transport, but it is worth going there just for a chat with Richard 
who runs it.

Nigel Porter
Guildford, Surrey, UK


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:44:11 -0300
From: "Abby, Davey, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Don't Give In to Yeast!!!

Darrell wrote about the demands of yeast.   Be strong Darrell.   If you
give yeast an inch it will take over your house!    Some basic rules of
my relationship with yeast.  
1.	Be unfaithful to any given starter.   Each starter wants your
undivided love.  Two-time.   Think of every homebrew as a new source of
old favorites lurking down at the bottom.   You probably have over 50
other London III's around the house.   They are clones, each offering
you the same yeastly love that starter is trying to monopolize.

2.	Play the field.   Have a few XLs hidden away on the side.   Maybe a
spicy little ringwood number or a saucy Beglian wit.   

3.	Take charge.    When you hear "feed me" one too many times from old
faithful - grab that starter, open it up and pour it down the sink.  

4.	Feed or hibernate?   Heard to much clickity-click?   Slant the little
*&#$#* and stick it away!

5.	Getting really bitter - and not the good kind of bitter?   Open it up
and watch it turn green?   Can yeast scream?  Find out.

Any more ideas of getting control of a yeast love going off the rails?

Alan McLeod
PEI, Canada


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 07:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: over-sparging

Some brief, albeit anecdotal evidence regarding the current topic:

Two years ago, before I knew of the fact that one COULD over-sparge,
I decided that if I saved the last gallon from several batches, ie
wort that was low gravity...and thrown out, that I'd have another
batch! 

Well...I called it "Kitchen Sink Ale" and the name was appropriate.
Even when mixing it with another, better brew, it was really NASTY.

So, this is experiential, although anecdotal evidence that using 
these tail-end runnings (apt name as well) really can ruin one's
love of homebrew.

 .Darrell


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:09:23 -0500
From: "Brad Boes" <gerald.boes at verizon.net>
Subject: Rennerian Coordinates

Thanks to those who pointed out the mistake in my rennerian coordinates.  I
just put them on, mistakenly or not, because the FAQ suggested it.  It was
my first post.  I think I'll just stick to name and city from now on.

Brad Boes
Princeton, Il





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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: bacteria...resistence?

We hear that virus can develop a resistence to antibiotics, correct?

Why is it, then, that bacteria cannot develop a resistence to, say,
for example, chlorine?

Are they not intelligent enough as creatures to do this?

Please excuse the naivete...my field is psychology..not biology...

Happy Brewing!
 .Darrell


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 12:54:03 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Where am I?

"Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com> of Gaithersburg, MD [412, 
123]  -or- [123, 412] writes

>OK, now I'm confused -
>Is the Henning system for Rennarian coordinates [bearing, distance] or
>[distance, bearing] ?!
>
>I believe The Renner defines it as [bearing, distance] but Steve Jones' most
>excellent web calculator gives the coordinates as [distance, bearing].
>Where's Jason Henning stand on the matter?

I think Jason did originally define it as [bearing, distance], but 
Steve and others started doing [distance, bearing], and I, for one, 
am happy to go along with this.  I figure it's an evolving system. 
And I agree with George Fergusson - them Tiger Maps are way cool!

BTW, perhaps this is a opportunity to catch newcomers up to history 
of this bit of silliness.  It all began about five years ago after I 
made my semi-annual suggestion that people sign their posts with 
their name and location.  Dan McConnell then poked some good-natured 
fun at me when he signed a post with something like "4 miles 
south-east* of Jeff Renner, center of the homebrew universe." 
Spencer Thomas then continued it with "1 mile SE of Dan, 5 miles SE 
of Jeff**, center ..." etc.  People picked up on this and were soon 
signing with distances, so Jason regularized it.

I think this kind of fun is especially welcome in these rather grim 
days.  My thanks to Steve for developing and posting his calculator, 
and also to Brian Levetzow, who developed a nearly identical 
calculator but was scooped by hours by Steve.  Rather like Bell and 
Edison at the patent office hours apart with the telephone.  I don't 
think the profit potential is the same.

*Dan's actual coordinates are [3.6, 115.9] Rennerian
** Spencer's actual coordinates are [5.1, 116] Rennerian
Amazingly straight line, ain't they?

Jeff [0,0 Rennerian]
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:03:40 -0700
From: "Jan Willem van Groenigen" <groenigen at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Dutch-language brewing forum

Hi all you Dutch-speaking brewers out there,

Jacques Bertens recently started a Dutch-language homebrew forum at his
(really cool) website: www.hobbybrouwen.nl  You are more than welcome to
give us a visit up there. Finally a place where we can freely exchange
age-old Belgian brewing secrets without them leaking to the Anglo-saxons!

Cheers,

Jan-Willem van Groenigen
Davis, California.



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Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:51:51 -0400
From: "Bob Sutton" <bsutton at mindspring.com>
Subject: The "last word" on sparging...

My "keep it simple" principle is simply stop the sparge runoff when the
uncorrected specific gravity reading (at sparge temperature) is 1.000 - or
when I've collected sufficient runoff volume.

More or less this will put your "corrected" sg at 1.010 to 1.015.

Cheers!
Bob (in the foothills of SC)
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today




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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: rickge at webtv.net (Rick Georgette)
Subject: Propane ventilation

I am trying to move my 175000 BTU propane burner to the basement.  Can
anyone give me advice with respect to proper ventilation.  Specifically
does anyone the correct CFM for a ventilation hood?

Sincerely

Rick Georgette



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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 11:57:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: relationship between sparge temp and sparge time?

There must be a positive correlation between the maintenance of sparging
temperature, and the total aparge time...?  I suggest this in that I am
now in the process of sparging an Alt...and have found that my time has
decreased by nearly 1/2 hour (from 1.75 hours) and I think that it is
due to the fact that my sparge temmp has stayed above 160F.
Is this the case for others?

 ..Darrell
[9679.9, 27.4] Renerian (if I did the conversion correctly)


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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:36:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: raspberry wheat haze


what would contribute to haze/muck generated by the fruit (ie:raspberrys)?
I kept the carboy at cold (30-40's) temps for a couple of days and the
beer cleared quite well. Typical haze for a wheat but it looks less like
dirty dish water now. After transfer there was a layer of yeast and what
looked like, well i donno, raspberry yuck/protein/sugar/??





 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. 
And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937




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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:04:07 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Butt Ugly Barleywine Blues (a.k.a. Help, I've Created A Monster!)


Hi all!

Well, I wanted to make a "Big Beer", and I think I've more than met that
goal....!! Here's the story.

I wanted to make a fairly "basic" Imperial Stout /Barleywine with whatever
leftover stuff I had on hand. Using ProMash, I came up with the following:

ProMash Recipe Printout
Recipe Name: Butt Ugly Barleywine (formerly known as CCCP Soviet Imperial
Stout)
AHA Style and Style Guidelines
- -------------------------------
11-E  Stout, Imperial Stout
Min OG:  1.075   Max OG:  1.090
Min IBU:    50   Max IBU:    80
Min Clr:    20   Max Clr:    40  Color in SRM, Lovibond
Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL):        5.00     Wort Size (GAL):    4.00
Total Extract (LBS):    12.13
Anticipated OG:         1.098     Plato:             23.21
Anticipated SRM:         63.4
Anticipated IBU:         94.2
Wort Boil Time:            60     Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
   %     Amount     Name                          Origin
Potential   SRM
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -
  61.9    7.50 lbs. Traditional Dark DME        America    		1.046       35
  8.2     1.00 lbs. Chocolate Malt                America            	1.029
50
  8.2     1.00 lbs. Black Roasted Barley         America            	1.028
450
  8.2     1.00 lbs. Crystal 120L                    America
1.033      120
  7.2     0.88 lbs. Treacle (UK Molasses)       United Kingdom  	1.047
35
  6.2     0.75 lbs. Brown Sugar                    America            	1.047
25

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU    Boil
Time
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -
  1.50 oz.    Eroica                		Pellet 	9.00  	53.7   60 min.
  1.50 oz.    Galena                            Pellet	12.00  	36.5   30
min.
  1.00 oz.    Whitbred Goldings (UK-WGV) Pellet 6.00   	4.0    	5 min.

Yeast
White Lab's Burton Ale (WLP023)
White Lab's Champaign Yeast (If necessary to finish ferment)
- -----

I know the hops are a bit on the aggressive side, but this is only in
keeping with the constructive criticism from fellow FOTB brewclub members,
in regards to my previously under-hoped brews.

I wasn't sure precisely how the Treacle and the Brown Sugar would affect
things (especially being approximately 13% of the entire grain bill), but
surely didn't plan on the O.G. that I took just prior to pitching the yeast:
1.133...!!! (That is not a typo, and yes, I did adjust for temperature
fluctuations!)  1.133...! It tastes pretty good right now, but in the long
term, I'm really not interested in making an Chaotic Evil Samiclaus
clone...! I've created a monster...!! :)

I really didn't plan on making something this f____g huge, but now that I
have it in the fermenter, what do I do now? Wait until the Burton yeast
poop-out, and finish it off with Champaign yeast...? Bottle it when done,
and age it until the cows come home....? :)

NEWS FLASH: Seven days later, fermentation continues, and the Gravity is at
1.038.... Not too bad, so-far. Tastes way-too yeasty right now, but should
be "interesting", someday...! A good buddy of mine suggested that I split
the batch whenever the Burton yeast finally quit partying, and pitch half
the batch with Champaign yeast, and the other half with a Belgian or wine
yeast, and mix them together again later on. Do other big-a__ Barleywine
brewers have any other good ideas....?

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA

"Life, alas, is very drear.
Up with the glass! Down with the beer!"
Louis Untermeyer (1885-1977)

32.578963 -117.101655
[1932.4, 249.6] Rennerian
Why do I feel like this is some sort of a Big Brother-type of thing...? :}



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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:01:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt Competition!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

About to close the submission period for the teeshirt design
contest. If anyone still has a concept they'd like to submit,
pop me an e-mail and let me know when to expect it! DEFINITELY
need to let the voting commence by November first,
though. Otherwise, we may never get a 2002 teeshirt to
production!

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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