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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Looking for Guam Brewers ("Rick Wood")
  Draining fermenters through the tap ("Edge, David")
  A report back on Soda and German Soft Pretzels ("Arnold Neitzke")
  Re:hydrometer measurements ("Jean-Philippe Caniou")
  Filters/Vegemite/Lager Yeast (AJ)
  re: Lost fermentables, no break ("Kensler, Paul")
  Spent Grain Dog Biscuits (grayling)
  jb-weld = broken keg stout ("Hornberger, Brent")
  [Fwd: Re: hydrometer measurements] ("Sedam, Marc")
  RE: lager yeast (Brian Lundeen)
  London pubs (John Wilkinson)
  ABS vs. PVC hopback? ("Neil K")
  dry malt v. malt syrup ("dag's")
  Specifying burner output (Sam Taylor)
  Alcohol Content (jvoosen)
  Re: Life =? Dream (Was Airlocks) (Jeff Renner)
  re:Pumpkin barleywine (susan woodall)
  Can you ship beer? ("Tim")


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:41:24 +1000
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: Looking for Guam Brewers

Hello All,

I am looking for homebrewers on Guam.  I have been here for the past 
20 years and have rarely come across homebrewers here.  I am interested
in opening a small brewpub and would like to have contact with homebrewers.

I can be reached at the above email and at 735-2688 (w) and 565-2727 (h).  

Cheers,
Rick Wood




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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:09:50 +0000
From: "Edge, David" <davidedge at hsbc.com>
Subject: Draining fermenters through the tap

A long time ago: (19 Apr 2000)

Phil, the Reigning Baron of Buradoo said...

> have a better solution for you but one possibility is to ferment in a
plastic
> fermenter with a tap at bottom (spigot - I believe is the Yankee term).
This
> removes the necessity for syphoning completely. It is a simple matter to
> gravity feed via plastic tubing for all racking purposes.

We aereate our wort by running it from fermenter to a bucket through the tap
and throwing it back in the top a few times. This leaves some stickyness
in the tap so I'm wondering if I dare drain the permenter through the tap a
few
days later. How could I sanitize the tap (spigot) without affecting the
beer?

David Edge
Burton-on-Trent


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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:14:29 -0500
From: "Arnold Neitzke" <arnold_neitzke at ameritech.net>
Subject: A report back on Soda and German Soft Pretzels

Earlier this year Jeff Renner posted a recipe for soda that was a modified
version of Mike O'Brien's and just recently for the German soft pretzels

I tried it a week ago and wanted to warn about the coriander.  You see I was
making only a 2 liter bottle of it and my kids were helping, my daughter
wanted to put in the "pinch" and I said go ahead.

Well her pinch was quite large but I was thinking that it wouldn't have that
big of an impact (for a gallon anyway!).  The result?  It was pretty good,
only it had a burning in the back of the throat that turned you off after
the first swallow.  I'll do it again but I'll be in charge of the "pinch"
next time.

As for the German soft pretzels recipe?  Very very good and was much easier
than I thought it would be (I only had one child helping me this time :)  I
need to improve my pretzel twisting technique but other than that it was
easy and the directions were right on.  I know Jeff's gonna bop me one but I
used my bread machine to make the dough, it's great to set and forget it for
two hours and go do something else.

Hint if your looking for the lye, I found it in the drain cleaning section
of a chain super store (Meier's) that right it's a drain cleaner but it says
100% lye.

Arnold Neitzke
Brighton Mi.
20 miles North North East of the center of the brewing universe.



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:14:07 +1030
From: "Jean-Philippe Caniou" <jphc at picknowl.com.au>
Subject: Re:hydrometer measurements 


- ----- Original Message ----- Homebrew Digest #3774 (October 30, 2001)
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:31:14 -0500
> "Sedam, Marc" <marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote:
> Subject: hydrometer measurements
>
> Hey all,
>
> Having a brain cramp.  When the hydrometer reads 1.046 (or any number...)
for unfermented wort, that means that there are 46g of sugar per liter of
water...right?  If not, what does it mean?  I need to calculate for speise.
>
>  -Marc

The hydrometer should show 1000 for water. It measure the density of a
liquid compare to the density of pure water.

The reading indicates the potential of fermentable in the liquid or should I
say soluble solids in the liquid.
This is why the final gravity is not 1000 but higher. Remember that
unfermentable sugars (as we commonly say are in fact soluble solids) help to
develop the body and the head of the beer.

We use the reading to calculate the % of Alcohol By Volume. (OG - FG) / 7.36
= % ABV.

If the hydrometer reads 1046 and you expect a finish gravity of 1012 (it's
not uncommon), you will have:
(1046-1012) / 7.36   =  4.62 % Alcohol By Volume. or say you expect 1000 (it
will never happen in beer), you have then 6.25% ABV

Knowing that to increase the alcohol content of 1% you need 20g of sugar per
litre.
If we apply that to 46g of sugar per litre you think there is,
you have 1.15 % ABV. !!!!! DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT TO ME...

For further explanation, find out the differences with Baume, Balling, Brix
and Oechsle who develop the hydrometers.
They are all related, different scales and calculate the soluble solids in a
liquid compare to pure water.

Cheers.
JPh.










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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:26:28 +0100
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Filters/Vegemite/Lager Yeast

There was a question about a single stage water filter with odor removal
a day or to ago. These devices come in a variety of forms the simplest
of which are just some kind of paper or wound consruction with
granulated, activated carbon (GAC) incorporated. The GAC will react with
chlorine (converting it to chloride ion) and chloramine (producing
chloride and ammonium ions) as well as adsorbing many organic substances
such as those responsible for stale or musty odors and they'll also get
hydrogen sulfide (rotton eggs smell). That's about it though. They don't
produce any change in the ion composition of the underlying water (with
the exception of the small changes in chloride ion concentration). Hard,
alkaline water will still be hard and alkaline.

There are other filters which largely deionize the water. The Brita
pitcher is the best known of these but there are some counter top and
under the counter models available. These contain ion exchange resins
and usually include GAC as well for odor removal. These filters
dramatically change the chemistry of the water rendering hard water soft
though these units are usually sold to consumers who buy them to remove
metals such as copper, iron and lead. They sometimes introduce small
amounts of silver into the water to keep it bacteria free after the
chlorine is removed. Thus it is important to understand which type you
have. Generally speaking unless your water is heavily chloraminated or
stinky filtration is not required. Chlorine can be removed by heating or
allowing the water to stand over night. Chloramine can be removed by
tossing a couple of Campden tablets into the water and dissolving them.
Medthods for removing carbonate are well documented in the archives here
and in many brewing texts.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The principal ingredients in Vegemite are yeast and salt. I expect there
may be some hypoid oil in there as well but I'm not sure how much.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I'm sure there are as many temperature profiles for operating lager
yeasts as there are brewers. In the US industry the yeast are usually
pitched at around 41F and left to themselves to get started. As
fermentation begins heat is evolved raising the temperature. When it
reachs 46 - 48F they cut the refrigeration in and hold at that
temperature for the reamainder of the fermentation. A diacetyl rest may
be tossed in when the gravity is within a point (Plato) or so of
terminal.  I've always done essentially this with lager yeast and had
good results but it would be foolish to claim that this is the best way.

A.J.



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:39:01 -0500
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: Lost fermentables, no break

Greg,
I wonder if your extraction and break problems might be related to pH...
what I'm thinking (and I'm sure those that know a lot more about water
chemistry can correct and expand on this) is that the combination of the
gypsum and roasted barley might have dropped your mash pH down below the
preferred range, and it didn't rise up until you'd diluted the mash with
sparge water...  instead of starting at 5.2 and rising to 5.6 - 5.8, it
started maybe around 4.9 or 5.0 and rose to 5.3.

Perhaps next time you can add some calcium carbonate instead of gypsum - the
chalk will have the opposite effect, and will work to raise the pH (which in
this type of beer is fine because you've got a lot of roasted barley working
to drop it).


Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD  [412, 123]


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:55:06 -0500
From: grayling at provide.net
Subject: Spent Grain Dog Biscuits

Someone asked for a spent grain dog biscuit recipe.  This
is the one we use at home for our four legged children.  
It came to us originally from Bob and Kim Barrett (AABG 
and FORD) ... where they got it I have no clue.

My dogs go nuts for these biscuits. 

Cheers!

Jim Suchy
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Westland, MI
(21, 90 Rennerian)

Dog biscuits 

4 cups spent grain 
4 cups flour 
1 cup peanut butter 
1 egg 

Mix together (works well with hands) and roll onto cookie 
sheet. Score (almost through) into shapes you want, or 
use a cookie cutter as you would for cookies. They don't
spread out and they pretty much end up the thickness you
start with. This recipe made one cookie sheet but they 
are pretty thick so you could adjust that if you want them
thinner. 

They end up very crisp after they've been baked and dried. 
Bake at 350 for 30 min. Let cool enough to break them up 
then place back in the oven to dry for 8-10 hours at 225.
You want to make sure they dry adequately, if they look
like a fig newton when you break one they're not dry. If
they don't dry enough they will mold. Dried thoroughly 
they will store well in an airtight container.
 



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:11:32 -0600
From: "Hornberger, Brent" <Brent.Hornberger at wcg.com>
Subject: jb-weld = broken keg stout


While Paul Harvey "good day" says that JB Weld will bond to anything, it
didn't bond when I needed it the most. It's rock solid till heated up for
about 45 minutes on an outdoor propane burner. A image is here
http://www.bcbrewery.com/images/101799/MVC-080F.JPG on JB-weld's web page it
says that it can withstand heat up to 300 celcius.
http://www.jbweld.co.uk/files/prodb.html I found no data that will tell me
if I will grow and extra eye in my lifetime though.

brent - www.mullet-times.com got mullet?


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:18:55 -0500
From: "Sedam, Marc" <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: hydrometer measurements]

Got the answer from Jeff Renner, of course.  Use degrees
Plato.

In my example, a beer of 1.046 OG is 11.5 deg. Plato, which
equals 115g/kg (I
agree with Jeff and think 115g/L would be close enough).  Of
course it
would be more accurate if you weighed your speisse,
obviously.

So there's the answer.  I think 3/4c of corn sugar is about
4oz.  Since
there are 28g/oz you'd need 112g to prime 5 gallons...or
basically a
liter.  This matches my English approach of adding a quart
of speisse to
prime my beers.  You'd have to adjust a bit for high gravity
beers, but
it's close enough.

I'll stick with just adding a quart from now on.

- ----
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
(148 deg, 510 miles) Rennerian


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:41:19 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: lager yeast

Gene Collins expresses some confusion over conflicting advice: 

> The directions on the White Labs yeast vial label says 
> to reduce the
> temperature when fermentation starts. In the summer issue of 
> Zymurgy, in
> "Ask Dr. White" (White Labs Advertisement) Chris says to 
> allow to ferment
> for two or three days at 70-75 degrees, then start lowering 
> the temperature.
> Which one should I believe and does this mean at high krausen?

There really is no conflict, as both answers are wrong, IMHO.

Of course, you must remember Chris White is coming from a perspective of
someone with a financial interest in mass sales of his product, and
therefore wants to slant his advice in the direction of preventing his
customers from totally screwing up, as opposed to producing the best
possible product. IOW, either recommendation is safe, but not optimal.

I believe ANY yeast, but especially lagers, should be pitched at
fermentation temperature, so that the growth phase can occur at those
temperatures. To do that, you will need a very large starter, or a starter
that has been acclimated to the colder temps through slow drops of around 4
deg F per day, and ideally both. You will also need scrupulous sanitation so
that your unpitched wort can sit safely for a day in your fridge or freezer
to get down to the desired temp (unless you have a kick-ass chiller that can
do the job quickly). Personally, I innoculate all my worts with lysozyme to
protect it from lactobacillus and pediococcus which might be floating
around. Of course, you wouldn't want to do that if you were making a lambic.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:50:46 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkinson at goquest.com>
Subject: London pubs

I always liked The Clarence, on Whitehall I think.  There are two by
that name, apparently, but the one I went to was on or near Whitehall
near the Royal Horseguards barracks and the Royal Horseguards hotel.  I
used to stay there when I could and it was an easy walk to The
Clarence.  I can't vouch for it today since I haven't been to London in
ten years or so, but it was good the last time I was there.

John


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:50:58 -0500
From: "Neil K" <neilk27 at hotmail.com>
Subject: ABS vs. PVC hopback?



When I recently joined the AHA I got a free bonus book of tips and gadgets 
collected from back issues of Zymurgy. One of the projects is for a neat 
little hopback made from a length of 2" plastic pipe with end caps and 
appropriate in and out copper tubing. The instructions call for 2" PVC 
schedule 40 pipe, which I am having trouble finding. I HAVE found 2" ABS 
(black, schedule 40) at my local home depot place, along with all the 
fittings I need. As well, these pieces are dirt cheap--the whole project 
will cost less than $7.00 Canadian. Question: can I substitute ABS for PVC? 
The ABS fittings are all stamped
"NSF-dw" which I believe stands for drinking water. According to several 
charts ABS and PVC are both food grade and support the same maximum 
temperature. Schedule 40 is schedule 40...so why couldn't I substitute? Any 
ideas? Private e-mail is fine at neilk27 at hotmail.com

While on the subject of hopbacks, I presume the final hop addition in the 
kettle is rendered redundant by a hopback. What about dry-hopping? And can I 
use hop plugs instead of whole flowers in the hopback?

Neil (in Montreal)







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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:20:00 -0800
From: "dag's" <dagsbait at adelphia.net>
Subject: dry malt v. malt syrup

I have recently tried my hand at beer brewing much to the shagrin of my wife
who could barely stand my wine making activities. She has taken to calling
me a lush and a drunken bootleger to witch I usualy reply "So, what's your
point?" this doesn't seam to help for some odd reason. ;-)

Well, my question for the day. I have been doing alot of reading on the
subject of brewing and I've noticed that some recipies call for both malt
syrup and dry malt. One that comes to mind called for 6.6# plain lite malt
syrup un- hopped and 1# lite dry malt. What is the purpose of this? would
the beer be diferent if I use only dry or only syrup? Or is it only because
syrup comes in 3.3# cans?



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:30:13 +1300
From: Sam Taylor <sam.taylor at peace.com>
Subject: Specifying burner output

Hi HBD, I'm looking to upsize and do 30 litre (8 gallon) boils and I
don't know how big a burner I need.  I'm also confused about how burners
are rated.  Why are burners specified in BTU (ie units of energy, not
power)?  I found one in a shop here that looked quite powerful, about
15cm in diameter, and it was (from memory) rated at 18.5kJ, which
converts to 17.5 BTU.  The BTU rated burners I've seen in catalogs, etc.
seem to be rated much higher, like thousands of BTU.  So are BTU ratings
in BTU per hour and metric ones in kJ per minute or something?  It's no
wonder that NASA lost that Mars probe in all this confusion.  What's a
BTU anyway?  Should I buy this 18.5kJ burner or does it sound a bit
small?

Thanks

Sam T


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:25:06 -0600
From: jvoosen at usfamily.net
Subject: Alcohol Content

I brew several of the Coopers products which usually turn out around 5%
 alcohol content. Looking for any ideas in the brewing process to be 
able to cut this back a little.

Thanks!

Jim
Stillwater, Minnesota




- ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:01:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Life =? Dream (Was Airlocks)

Oh Seekers of Wisdom:

You can hear a 1954 recording of "Sh - Boom" (Real Audio Streaming) 
at http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Sands/5757/record/ or at 
http://www.history-of-rock.com/covers.htm.  It is sung by four young 
men who allowed their hair to be shorn in the ritualistic manner of 
the ancient Vedic priests in the illustration I mentioned in 
yesterday's HBD.  Check it out - it's fun and reveals more of the 
wisdom of the ages I mentioned.  Tomorrow I will reveal all.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:35:14 -0700
From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
Subject: re:Pumpkin barleywine

To me that sounds like an oxy-moron.  The complexity of the barly wine
probably will over power the flavor of any amount of pumpkin that you
may add



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:22:04 -0600
From: "Tim" <tim at thehitz.net>
Subject: Can you ship beer?

Hello all!
 
I have a friend who lives in the Seattle area who I talk to every now
and again.  I live in Tulsa, Ok.  I have mentioned to him my new hobby
(have done 5 batches extract with my first all-grain planned for this
weekend) and he was interested in trying some of it.  He doesn't get
back here very often and I have never made it up there (want to though).

 
My question is....Is there a way to ship him a couple of bottle of beer?
Besides probably being illegal, what other problems might arise from
trying to ship some to him (Special packaging, ect.).
 
Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
 
Tim
Tulsa, Oklahoma



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