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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Scotch Ale lagering (Casey)
  London Pubs ("Brent Larson")
  Liquid vs dry (TOLLEY Matthew)
  Re: Draining fermenters through the tap (gsferg)
  Fermetor tap/spigot ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Re: ABS vs. PVC hopback ("Dave Greathouse")
  ABS vs. PVC hopback? (DHinrichs)
  Re: Burner Output ("Dennis Collins")
  Lysozyme ("Houseman, David L")
  Porter ("David Craft")
  Yeast Pitching Rates (gsferg)
  Speisse ("Pete Calinski")
  lager yeast ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  10 gal cooler (CMEBREW)
  Brew Day Flags ("David Craft")
  Why liquid *and* dry? ("Frank Tutzauer")
  Shipping/Packaging (Bob Paolino)
  Roasting malt barley at home - any websites? (Audie Kennedy)
  airlocks ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: Format of Rennerian Coordinates, Airlocks - Are They Necessary? (Spencer W Thomas)
  Roasting barley at home ("Audie Kennedy")
  Re: Life =? Dream (Was Airlocks) (Jeff Renner)
  Pretzel Logic - Drano as an Ingredient ("Bob Sutton")
  Burner spec's (Sam Taylor)


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:03:50 -0800
From: Casey <acez at mindspring.com>
Subject: Scotch Ale lagering

Well, after a little over a month, my scotch ale has made it to the
tertiary, and I'm debating whether to let it set another month before
taking it to about 36 degrees for about two weeks (+-?), or lagering it
first, then letting it set another month. You guys have been saying that
lagering ales smoothes the flavor, but the thing I still don't
understand is that if I lager, and it smoothes, typically, a beer
mellows with age as well. Is this due to the yeast?? If so, wont a
lagering stage make the yeast go dormant, thus prohibiting a
'mellow-ization' and the breakdown of the more complex sugars. So which
should I do first? Perhaps another (god, another??) starter for this
batch is in order after the lagering?

Thanks in advance,
Casey

SYMPTOM: Beer tasteless, front of your shirt is wet.
FAULT: Mouth not open, or glass applied to wrong part of face.
ACTION: Retire to restroom, practice in mirror.




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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:49:06 -0500
From: "Brent Larson" <brentandsyl at earthlink.net>
Subject: London Pubs

   The web site: www.fancyapint.com provides a good selection of pubs with
directions, addresses, ratings and other notes that seem fairly accurate.
I've used it as a guide on six lengthy visits to London this year and its
worked out great. There are some other internet pub guides out there, too.
   The London Walks, a guided walking tour service offers a bunch of evening
pub walks that are a nice inexpensive 2-3 hour activity. You can find their
brochure in most hotels. Theu probably have a web site. Anyway, their guides
are very entertaining and informative and visit 3 pubs. It's a good way to
meet some strangers and mix with the locals. You can also pick up a lot of
tips for other pubs to visit. They have a Knightsbridge one that's good and
a Chelsea one that's better. And there's one in central London that gets a
lot of good comments from folks I've talked to. There are many others
offered on various evenings.
   The Young's Brewery does a nice tour,  has a good pub attached to it and
a couple others in the neighborhood, including one with a hotel. It's a
fairly long stroll from the East Putney tube stop on the district line and
somewhat off the usual tourist routes. There are some others in the area
that are worth a visit. They've got a web site.
    The Angelsea Arms on Onslow Gardens in South Kensington is a great pub
with good food and a nice place to spend a Sunday afternoon.
   There are so many great places that you can discover on your own. I think
it's worth it to break from the usual tourist drill, take advantage of the
public transportation and devote some time to finding your own favorites. 


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:26 +1100
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: Liquid vs dry

From: "dag's" <dagsbait at adelphia.net>

>One that comes to mind called for 6.6# plain lite malt
>syrup un- hopped and 1# lite dry malt. What is the purpose of this? 

Dry malt extract (DME) is more concentrated than liquid malt extract (LME),
which contains water.  A pound of DME in a gallon of water will give you a
wort of 1.045, while a pound of LME will only give you a wort of 1.030.  DME
can be tricky to store (it must be kept absolutely dry or it will set in
lumps), but it has a lower colour contribution than LME, and recipes that
use a combination of DME and LME are probably aiming for a lighter colour
you'd get from using LME alone.  

Otherwise, you can use them interchangeably.  When substituting DME for LME
one should use 11% less DME than LME (i.e. 1 pound of LME would be
equivalent to 0.89 pounds of DME). Alternatively, when substituting LME for
DME one should use 13% more LME than DME (i.e. 1 pound of DME would be
equivalent to 1.13 pounds of LME). 

Cheers, Matt 
Canberra, Australia


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:37:32 -0500
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: Re: Draining fermenters through the tap

>We aereate our wort by running it from fermenter to a bucket through the tap
>and throwing it back in the top a few times. This leaves some stickyness
>in the tap so I'm wondering if I dare drain the permenter through the tap a
>few days later. How could I sanitize the tap (spigot) without affecting the
>beer?

Hrm. I suppose you could either swab it out with some disinfectant on a stick 
or squirt it in then stuff a wad of cotton soaked in disinfectant in to keep 
it clean in there. Or find another way of aerating your wort- I use an 
immersion chiller which I thrash around during cooling- this speeds up the 
cooling process and aearates the wort at the same time. Then I splash it 
around when siphoning outa my boiler into my fermenter. If I'm still worried 
about insufficient aeration (which isn't often) I have a small fish tank air 
pump and bubbler I use, but I prefer not to go that far.

Now that I think about it, corking the tap with some disinfectant-soaked 
cotton is probably a good idea, as well as swabbing it out before draining out 
the beer through it. I'm pretty good about maintaining cleanliness in my 
brewing but it never dawned on me that the tap might harbor bacteria that 
could make it into my secondary- generally my infection anxiety which peaks as 
I fill my primary tends to diminish (but never really goes away) as my beer's 
alcohol level goes up.

George-

- -- 
George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist
Whitefield, Maine US [729.7, 79.6] Apparent Renerian
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.





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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:32:35 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fermetor tap/spigot

David Edge asks how to clean the tap/spigot on his fermentor while the
fermentor is filled with wort/beer.

I use a bulb syringe filled with sanitizer to clean the closed tap after
I've used the tap when the fermentor is still occupied with beer.  The taps
I use have a bleed hole that allows me to squirt sanitizer through the tap.
Even if your tap doesn't have this bleed hole, you can still repeatedly
squirt sanitizer into the closed tap and drain it.  After cleaning the tap,
I keep a short piece of tubing and a 3 mL or 5 mL syringe on the end of the
tubing, all filled with sanitzer.  Thus, the tap is kept filled with
sanitizer until I need to use it again.
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:39:35 -0600
From: "Dave Greathouse" <davege at countryhorizon.com>
Subject: Re: ABS vs. PVC hopback

Neil from Montreal writes.....

>Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:50:58 -0500
>From: "Neil K" <neilk27 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: ABS vs. PVC hopback
>
>
>
>When I recently joined the AHA I got a free bonus book of tips and gadgets 
>collected from back issues of Zymurgy. One of the projects is for a neat 
>little hopback made from a length of 2" plastic pipe with end caps and 
>appropriate in and out copper tubing. The instructions call for 2" PVC 
>schedule 40 pipe, which I am having trouble finding. I HAVE found 2" ABS 
>(black, schedule 40) at my local home depot place, along with all the 
>fittings I need. As well, these pieces are dirt cheap--the whole project 
>will cost less than $7.00 Canadian. Question: can I substitute ABS for PVC? 
>The ABS fittings are all stamped
>"NSF-dw" which I believe stands for drinking water. According to several 
>charts ABS and PVC are both food grade and support the same maximum 
>temperature. Schedule 40 is schedule 40...so why couldn't I substitute? Any 
>ideas? Private e-mail is fine at neilk27 at hotmail.com

>While on the subject of hopbacks, I presume the final hop addition in the 
>kettle is rendered redundant by a hopback. What about dry-hopping? And can I 
>use hop plugs instead of whole flowers in the hopback?>

>Neil (in Montreal)


Under NO circumstances should you use ABS pipe for "food" 
type activity.  I work for a very LARGE company that makes
ABS plastic. All of the 3 ingredients of ABS (Acrylonitrile-
Butadiene-Styrene) are either known or suspected carcinogens.
Acrylo is probably the worst.  One of the common names for
Acrylo is Vinyl Cyanide, it is EXTREMELY toxic, I work 
around it everyday.  The OSHA limit for exposure is well 
below the odor threshold.  If you heat up those grades of 
ABS and smell that "sweet" smell you are WAY over the exposure
limit. Pipe-grade ABS is the cheapest grade, made from a lot 
of regrind and scrap ABS, it is really hard to tell what 
chemicals are in there, but it is NOT certified for any kind 
of food-grade use.  PVC pipe also contains Acrylo but not 
nearly as much and it is much more tightly bound in the 
molecule.  PVC usually IS certified for use with potable H2O..
ABS is NOT safe to use for food. (especially if heated)

You could probably find 1 1/2" PVC pipe and just make it 
longer...

BTW the "dw" you found on the fittings means DRAIN WASTE 
(the only thing ABS pipe is suited for) not drinking water...

I hope this helps.
Dave Greathouse





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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:53:24 -0600
From: DHinrichs at Quannon.com
Subject: ABS vs. PVC hopback?

>"Neil K" <neilk27 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: ABS vs. PVC hopback?


>"NSF-dw" which I believe stands for drinking water. According to several 
>charts ABS and PVC are both food grade and support the same maximum 
>temperature. Schedule 40 is schedule 40...so why couldn't I substitute? Any

>ideas? Private e-mail is fine at neilk27 at hotmail.com

"NSF-dw" is for drain water, NSF-pw is for potable water. Use the white pvc
label as such.

For more information on NSF labels http://www.nsf.org/mark/nsfmarks.html a
very good site for all your questions on certification and testing of water
treatment and handling equipment www.nsf.org


Dave in minnetonka, mn


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:00:44 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re: Burner Output

Sam asks the following:

"...I'm looking to upsize and do 30 liter (8 gallon) boils and I don't know
how big a burner I need."

Well, I have a good and simple answer.... as big as possible.

Basically, there are two types of burners available, low pressure and high
pressure.  I'm not sure of the actual pressures involved, but the low
pressure burners are in the 10 kBTU to 35 kBTU range while the high pressure
ones are in the 120 kBTU to 175 kBTU range.  There is a HUGE difference in
performance here.  In my experience, bringing 8 gallons to a boil with a low
pressure burner is a stretch.  I would not recommend it.  It will take
forever.  So now that you are choosing a high pressure burner for the job,
you have to decide which burner type is best for you.  Some are more
efficient, some are more quiet.  IMHO, once you get into the 120 - 175 kBTU
range the output really doesn't matter.  Pick a burner style that has decent
control and is relatively quiet.  I got mine from Sabco (www.kegs.com, the
usual disclaimers, NAJASCYYY) and have been very happy with it.  I also have
a 35 kBTU burner that I use for my HLT.  It is whisper quiet, but woefully
inadequate for a full 7-8 gallon boil.

Sam then asks:

"I'm also confused about how burners are rated.  Why are burners specified
in BTU (ie units of energy, not power)?  I found one in a shop here that
looked quite powerful, about 15cm in diameter, and it was (from memory)
rated at 18.5kJ, which converts to 17.5 BTU.  The BTU rated burners I've
seen in catalogs, etc. seem to be rated much higher, like thousands of BTU.
So are BTU ratings
in BTU per hour and metric ones in kJ per minute or something?  It's no
wonder that NASA lost that Mars probe in all this confusion.  What's a BTU
anyway?  Should I buy this 18.5kJ burner or does it sound a bit small?"

A BTU is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1 pound
of water by 1 degree F at a given set of conditions.  Typically, when a
burner output is rated they are talking about BTU/hr.  Over time, people
have just dropped the rate part and just used the BTU's which does add to
the confusion.  Kind of like people talking about the pressure capability of
a valve in "pounds" when they really mean pounds per square inch.  By the
way, 18.5 kJ is actually 17,500 BTU.  I think you overlooked the "k" which
means "thousand".  That means this is a low pressure burner rated at 17.5
kBTU/hr.  If you tried to use this to boil 8 gallons of wort, I hope you
have all day.

I think you will get plenty of responses on this one.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN






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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:34:29 -0600
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Lysozyme

Brian Lundeen mentions, quite casually it seemed, the use of lysozyme in
wort to retard the growth of spoilage bacteria.  A quick search on Google
opened my eyes to a naturally occurring enzyme I was totally unaware of.
But then that's probably not unusual anyway.  Brian, can you provide
additional information on the protocols for using lysozyme?  What's a
readily available source?  How much do you use?   Any affect on the
desirable yeast?  On flavor, aroma or other beer qualities?

Thanks,

David Houseman
SE Pennsylvania


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:46:58 -0500
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Porter

I am making a Robust Porter this weekend with the following grain bill:

8lbs Pale Malt
 .5 lb 60 L Crystal
 .5 lb Carapils
 .5 lb Aromatic
 .5lb Biscuit
1 lb Chocolate

35 IBU of English hops.

I ran this in Promash and have compared to many recipes.  My question is the
color.  I am coming up with about 28 SRM, which seems low for the style and
1 lb of Chocolate seems high compared to many recipes.  I have left out
Black malt as I was looking for a mellower flavor. Any thoughts out there?

Answers directly to me would be appreciated. I don't have to wait for the
next digest........

David Craft
Battleground Brewers
Greensboro, NC




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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:27:36 -0500
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: Yeast Pitching Rates

Contrary to my usual posts, this one actually has something to do with making 
beer :)

There was a recent discussion, I think on the UK-homebrew list, about yeast 
pitching rates. It was suggested that the optimum pitching rate was 3 grams 
per liter of wort and that traditionally, US homebrewers "drastically 
under-pitch their yeast". I can't speak for other US homebrewers but I've 
concluded through observation that *I* am guilty of drastically under-pitching 
my yeast.

I've been making beer for about 8 months. I started out with kits and quickly 
graduated to all-grain brewing about 5 months ago when I was inspired by an 
old Zymurgy article that described a simple infusion mash method using Igloo 
coolers. I've had varying degrees of success (failure?) with making yeast 
starters and have usually just "followed the directions" on the packets of 
yeast I purchased and pitched them either dry or reconstituted in a cup of 
warm water. There was usually "noticable activity" within 24 hours (wow). 
Depending on the yeast, my pitching rate has been 6-12 grams per 5-6 gallons 
of wort. The packets afterall did say on them "sufficient for 5-6 gallons".. 
My beer has been generally EXCELLENT. My few failures appear to be directly 
related to failing to get the wort fermenting quickly enough and my only 
"dumper" was a stout kit in which I had to pitch yeast 3 times before it 
started working...

Last week I brewed a 5 gallon all-grain batch of dry stout and I just happened 
to have a humungous fresh yeast cake available from an IPA I'd just racked 
into a secondary, so I pitched the whole damn thing into my wort.. a good 1/2 
gallon of slurry. I've never had a batch of beer take off so fast! Within 3 
hours it was working like crazy. It's almost ready to bottle. It promises to 
be good :)

Since then I've made a yeast starter using nearly a gallon of wort with an SG 
around 1038 into which I pitched a packet of Munton's Gold. I've now got a 
nice big gob of yeast ready for my next batch of beer. I'll never under-pitch 
again! I promise!

So, my questions are:

1) What is your pitching rate?

2) Is there such a thing as over-pitching yeast?

3) How do you make starters?

George-

- -- 
George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist
Whitefield, Maine US [729.7, 79.6] Apparent Renerian
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.





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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:57:04 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Speisse

I typically use 1.5 Quarts of speisse (or speise as some prefer).  I just
draw it off in a sanitized jar during transfer to the fermenter and
refrigerate.  Then, when it is time to bottle,  I dump the jar into the
bottling bucket before transferring the beer.  Seems to give the right
carbonation for beers with an OG in the 1.040 to 1.060 range.  If the OG is
above that, I don't go the speise route because the fermentation will take a
longer time and I am concerned that some nasties could take over even in the
refrigerator.

Seems to work fine and I like lower carbonated beer.

Hope this helps.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:06:50 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: lager yeast

Brian wrote of lager yeast:

>I believe ANY yeast, but especially lagers, should be pitched at
>fermentation temperature, so that the growth phase can occur at those
>temperatures. To do that, you will need a very large starter, or a starter
>that has been acclimated to the colder temps through slow drops of around 4
>deg F per day, and ideally both. 

I couldn't agree more with Brian, especially if you're doing a pilsner.
Pitching of lager beers is best performed when wort temps are closest to
their desired fermentation temps.  Typically I make a starter at room temp
and let it chill over the next few days to within 5 degrees F of my
fermentation temp.  Lacking a third fridge, I use cold packs and a cooler
;-)  I have an icewater pre-chiller which lets me get my wort down easily to
about 60F when the groundwater is cold.  I then do a 2F/day drop to
somewhere in the low 50s (about 52-54F).  It takes a little planning,
patience and ingenuity to make it work in your own home, but it's definately
worth it.  Maybe I'll also put my money where my mouth is and brew one this
weekend.  It's about that time. ;-)

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush







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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:46:43 EST
From: CMEBREW at aol.com
Subject: 10 gal cooler

In a past digest I read of somewhere that 10 gal Gott cooler could be 
obtained at a good price, but can't locate it in a search. ......Would 
someone send me a private email with any locations for the cooler at a 
"reduced" price?  Charlie


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:55:47 -0500
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Brew Day Flags

Greeetings,

I have just recieved more Brew Day flags.  Please check the Flea Market
section of HBD for ordering information.  I'll keep ordering them as long as
there is interest. Thanks to the digest for putting up with me on
this........I don't really make any money doing this. Just something nice to
do for the brewing community.

David Craft
Battleground Brewers
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:34:26 -0500
From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Why liquid *and* dry?

Dag, a wine-maker-recently-turned-brewer, writes:

"I've noticed that some recipies call for both malt
syrup and dry malt. One that comes to mind called for 6.6# plain lite malt
syrup un- hopped and 1# lite dry malt....is it only because
syrup comes in 3.3# cans?"

You put your finger on it.  The give away is the 6.6 figure.  The brewer
obviously used two 3.3 lb. cans, and then added a pound of DME either
because a) the syrup didn't give the required gravity and he didn't want to
use a partial can, or b) he followed the often quoted advice of
substituting DME for the sugar that the cans' directions might have called
for.

In general, DME and LME are not interchangeable.  Pound-for-pound DME gives
you a greater gravity.  But lots of times, recipes call for a certain
amount of DME and a certain amount of LME, not because the LME/DME
distinction is so critical, but just because that's what the brewer used.
If a recipe calls for a given division between the two, you can usually
substitute.  For a given quantity of syrup, substitute 80% DME, or for a
given quantity of DME use 125% syrup.  (Someone check me on the figures.)

After extract brewing for a while, many brewers settle on using just LME or
just DME, depending on which they like better.  Personally, I started using
DME exclusively.  I found it easier to measure, store, and handle, and it
was
more consistent (and lighter) in its color.  A couple of buddies of mine
used to use LME exclusively because their homebrew shop bought in bulk,
and they could get a good price on whatever homebrew sized quantities they
wanted (they were not restricted to 3.3 lb. cans).  They also hated the
clumping of DME.

Whatever floats your boat.

 --frank in Buffalo





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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:57:34 -0600
From: Bob Paolino <nowgohaveabeer at brewingnews.com>
Subject: Shipping/Packaging


On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:22:04 -0600 "Tim" <tim at thehitz.net> wrote:
>My question is....Is there a way to ship him a couple of bottle of beer?
>Besides probably being illegal, what other problems might arise from
>trying to ship some to him (Special packaging, ect.).

Although it is illegal to mail it (USPS), the same does not apply to 
private shipping companies (UPS and others).  Homebrewers ship to 
competitions all the time.  I've heard reports that different UPS depots
vary in their tolerance for accepting the packages, even though there
is no rule against it.  (And because you are shipping homebrew rather 
than a commercial product, there isn't any issue of taxation.)  If you
think someone will harass you about it, write on the slip that the package
contains glassware or something like that.  I've heard that other people 
refer to "yeast samples for analytical purposes," but that's probably going 
overboard.

Packaging?  BOTM boxes with their styrofoam inserts to hold the bottles
are good, but your own packaging can work just as well.  My method? 
I wrap each bottle in a sheet of newspaper, but the bottles in a sixpack
carrier, and the filled sixpack in a plastic bag, all to avoid breakage and to 
contain it if something were to break.  I usually put my styro meat trays 
in with the dishes when I run the dishwasher, primarily to make the trash
a little less stinky, but they can also be useful as packing material.  Put 
one of appropriate size in the bottom of the box and rest the sixpack in it. 
Use others to fill the space around the sides, and then one on the top 
before sealing the box.  The styrofoam adds protection but adds very little 
shipping weight.  I find this a better option than "packing peanuts"
because they don't get all over the place at the recipient's end.

(BTW, you may as well ship more than just a couple of bottles--it's that 
first pound that's the most expensive, so you may as well make the package 
worth it.  Check the UPS website for rates, which vary not only by weight, but 
also by distance.)

Hope this helps.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino  [288.2, 281.6]   
Columnist, Great Lakes Brewing News
Member, North American Guild of Beer Writers
   Quill and Tankard Awards winner:
   2001--Culture Feature (Gold), 2000--Travel Feature (Silver)
Great Lakes Brewing News advertising information: 800.474.7291




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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:40:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Audie Kennedy <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Roasting malt barley at home - any websites?

I have taken the plunge into all-grain, and would like
to roast some of that 50 lbs. sack of grain myself. 
Are there any good websites on doing this?  Can it be
done in a regular home oven?



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:27:34 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: airlocks

So, I took Jeff up on his offer to have a look see at his airlock
"experiment." Sorry Jeff, but from what you've posted I see no reason to
discontinue using airlocks. First, I don't understand your hatred for
airlocks, especially the plastic bubbler variety. I disagree that they are a
"royal pain" to clean - why would you need a special sanitizing bucket just
for them? Unless you're using them in some bizarre way there's no reason
they should ever get very dirty, and there's really no urgent need to get
them immediately into a sanitizing solution. The fact that they are so cheap
means that you can keep a bunch on hand and clean the ones currently not in
use at your leisure. I just soak mine in the same chlorine solution that I
use for everything else - no big deal.

Now, as to whether or not they actually /do/ anything worthwhile, that's
another question and one that I'd hoped you were going to shed some light
on. My take on the subject has always been that, since we know for a fact
that oxygen exposure will stale beer, I'd rather play it safe and use an
airlock (cheap and no hassle, IMHO) rather than take any chances. The
experiment you have on the web, in which you split a batch between two
carboys, one of which was sealed with plastic wrap/rubber band, the other
with a bubbler, unfortunately allows no firm conclusions to be drawn. You
said that at some point during the 5-6 months in these secondaries the
bubbler dried out (!). Given the fact that /both/ the resulting beers tasted
oxidized, one reasonable interpretation of the results is that the plastic
wrap method does not adequately protect against oxidation, and, not
surprisingly, that a dried-out (thus, no longer functional) airlock does no
better.  An aside here: if you are leaving your airlock unattended for an
extended period of time and are worried about it drying out, you can use
glycerol in place of the water. I did this with a mead which was buried in a
pyramid for a whole year (don't ask) and it maintained the seal just fine.

It's also worth keeping in mind that these were apparently lagers (?) and
so, even if you see no benefit whatsoever from using an airlock, it may not
be valid to extrapolate such results to ales which are probably much more
prone to oxidative defects due to the higher temperatures that they
experience during their production and storage.

 -Alan Meeker



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:33:48 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Format of Rennerian Coordinates, Airlocks - Are They Necessary? 

Tom,

I have a BA in Math and Physics.  In both disciplines, we always wrote
polar coordinates as (r, theta) or (r, theta, phi) in 3d.  That is,
(distance, bearing).  

I can think of two common English language usages that each use one of
the two orderings.

You say "it's 9 miles east of here" not "it's east of here 9 miles".

But, you say "go east for 9 miles" and not "go 9 miles to the east".

So, in English, to specify relative position we're more likely to use
(distance, bearing), but to specify how to get there we're more likely
to use (bearing, distance).  Or so it seems to me.

=Spencer


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:35:29 -0500
From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Roasting barley at home

I rudely posted the other message without a signature or place name.  I
should have included I have a bag of Briess 6-row.  I have tried two batches
using this, along with 1 pound of Cara-pils and Cascade hops.  Not very
flavorful, other than the Cascade.
Audie Kennedy
Wise, Va.




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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:31:45 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Life =? Dream (Was Airlocks)

Ok, in response to several questions, here's what the deal was for 
those of you who are too young to get the gag.

The Crew Cuts was one of several clean cut guy-groups of the fifties 
(The Four Lads, The Four Freshmen, The Four Preps are others).  The 
Crew Cuts had what has been called the first rock and roll #1 hit 
with Sh-Boom, which was #1 for either 7 or 9 weeks in 1954.  It was 
actually a cover for a group called The Chords.

Crew cuts were, of course, short hair cuts that were really neat 
(fifties for cool), as opposed to the long, slicked down hair of our 
parents.  Variants were brush cuts, flat tops, and flat tops with 
fenders if you were getting greasy.  Crew cuts continued to survive 
into the eighties on NASA engineers (think of all those pictures from 
mission control).

The fifties were a weird time, sort of a calm before the storm that 
followed.  I was just a kid, but it was a good time to grow up.

Do listen to "Sh-Boom (Life Could Be a Dream)" (Real Audio Streaming) 
at http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Sands/5757/record/ or at 
http://www.history-of-rock.com/covers.htm.  As John Wilkinson emailed 
me, "And they say our generation didn't have good music!"

The American beer of the fifties was good, too!

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:51:19 -0500
From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob at homebrew.com>
Subject: Pretzel Logic - Drano as an Ingredient

Arnold Neitzke mentioned that he found his lye in the drain cleaning section
in the form of a drain cleaner purporting to be 100% lye.

I'd be wary of using a commercial drain cleaner in food preparation. Despite
its claim of 100% lye, I wouldn't be surprised to find heavy metals and
other harmful impurities in the drain cleaner - less so in lye suitable for
food preparation. I suggest you call the "800 number" on your lye container
and ask the manufacturer about the suitability as a food ingredient.

Food-grade lye can be difficult to find - you might coax a local bakery for
a small container (don't use glass)
I'd opt for baking soda before I'd consider drain cleaners.

Cheers!
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today



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Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:10:59 +1300
From: Sam Taylor <sam.taylor at peace.com>
Subject: Burner spec's

Thanks everyone for your replies on burners - I thought it was worth
summarizing what you all told me:

Burners are rated BTU per hour.  The metric ratings are in KJ per
second.  So a 18.5kJ (per second) burner is 17.5 * 60 * 60 = 63000 BTU
per hour, which I was also advised should be in the suitable range for a
30 litre (8 gallon) boil.  I got the BTU -> kJ conversion from
www.onlineconversion.com


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