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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Cloudy Beer (Steven S)
  RE: Gott Conversion ("Donald D. Lake")
  Fw: Doppelbock Blues ("Colby Fry")
  Re: Cloudy Beer ("RJ")
  RE: SG correction and kettle volume ("Dennis Lewis")
  CF chiller (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Cloudy Beer (Matt)
  Increasing Wheat Character (Mike.Szwaya)
  Re: Lead in Beer? / Zinc & Neoprene in Wort / Bacterial Growth (John Palmer)
  Plastic Pipe Use ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  RE: Lager Yeast/ lysozyme (Bob Sheck)
  Yeast Starters and Magnetic Stirrers (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  Teeshirt Contest Extended (Pat Babcock)
  Re: pretzels / lye ("Mike")
  Re: Lead in Brass ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re: Cloudy Beer ("Craig Olson") ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re:alcohol content ("Thomas D. Hamann")


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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:31:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer


Ah the age old question. Its frustrated me since my first day of
homebrewing. I've searched archives with little consistant method used by
all so i'll just put in some general tips i've learned/discovered.

1.) Wheat beers just can't be crystal clear by our methods, some haze
    is appropiate with the style.
2.) WhirlFloc or Irish Moss greatly helps added to the boil. WhirlFloc
    seems superior.
3.) Finings are worth a try: gelatin, insglass, etc BUT these attack
    specific causes of haze be they proteins, tannins. By working with
    the electrostatic charges of the haze/cloudy causing material they
    might work, or ruin the flavor. I've not gone this route yet.
4.) Black Patent malt. Someone suggested throwing in a small handful of
    black patent malt into the mash or boil, i forget which. The claim
    is it helps protein caused haze. I've not tried it.
5.) Cold storage. This seems to be the "ticket". I brew ales and bottle.
    After 2-3 weeks of bottle conditioning/carbonation I stick a small
    supply in the fridge for another 2+ weeks. I assume like most brewers
    we stick a few in the fridge just long enough to get cold. I've 
    personally noticed that beer i've forgotten in the fridge for a few
    weeks are crystal clear compared to their short term brothers. 
    I consider this kin to lagering but after the fact and so far the
    results are impressive enough for me to continue it and not chase
    some of the other methods.
6.) Drink your homebrew out of a stone mug. If you cant see it, you will
    worry more on how it tastes than looks. 


I had a raspberry wheat i brewed thats about ready to drink. I had
complained about a dirty dishwater look to it. In my case a few nights
sticking the carboy in the cold night air seemed to help clear it
greatly. I suspect based on some emails from the fine folk here, that it
was pectin from the fruit I used suspended in the beer. I've inspected my
bottles yesterday and the brew looks mighty clear, for a wheat beer. I'll
chill a few for a couple of weeks to help kill chill haze.

All this does bring up a question. I'm moving to kegging shortly so I
wonder if anyone has bottled some of a batch and kegged the rest and which
was clearer/better tasting? I'm curious if bottle conditioning causes some
haze producing products that forced carbonation avoids? Does bottle
conditioning produce esters that kegging does not?




 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
	[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (atlanta) GA

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. 
And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937




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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:55:03 -0500
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: RE: Gott Conversion

If you haven't drilled  or tampered with the drain hole, I have an
easier solution for you.  It was posted here a year or two ago and it
works.

Use a mini-keg bung as your fitting.  Push it in from the inside.  Go to
Ace Hardware and get a 4 inch long 1/4" stainless nipple (it's a little
pipe treaded on both sides).  If they don't have stainless, then get
brass.

Attach a ball valve on one side of the nipple and then slide it through
the mini-keg bung.

It's simple, it doesn't leak and it's cheap!  What more do you want?

Don Lake
Orlando FL



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:18:55 -0500
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Fw: Doppelbock Blues




| I am having trouble with a doppelbock that I am currently making. After
| lagering for 2 months there are little white flakes in the bottle. I am
pretty
| sure that they are from the yeast, but will they ever go away? I took
extreme
| caution when sanitizing all of my equipment so I doubt that it is from
| bacteria. Need Input. Here is the recipe....can it be saved?
| Doppelbock
|
| Type: Partial mash Size: 5 gallons
| Color: 56 HCU (~24 SRM)
|  Bitterness: 24 IBU
| OG: 1.114  FG: 1.034
| Alcohol: ~9% a/v
| Water: 1 tsp gypsum
| Grain: 4 oz. Wheat malt
| 5 lb. 5 oz. German Munich
| 1 lb. 4 oz. American crystal 60L
| 3 oz. Belgian chocolate
| Mash: 60% efficiency
| Crush grain, mash  at  155F for 90 minutes
| Boil: 90 minutes SG 1.095 6.5 gallons
| 11 lb. 4 oz. Light malt extract
| Irish moss last 10 min
| Hops: .62 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 90 min.)
| 1.25 oz. Hallertauer (4.25% AA, 30 min.)
| .94 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 30 min.)
| Yeast: Wyeat 1056 Chico(2 packs) Had to use this because fridge wont go
above
| 40F. Clean tasting, lets malt through
|
| Log: Right before bottling add the following recipe  at  full krausen . Makes a
| .5 gallon starter:
| 1 gallons h20
| boil for 30 minutes
| 1 lb light malt extract
| .25 vienna malt
| .25 oz tettang- 30 min
| .25 oz Hallertauer 5 min.
| and Wyest 2206 when cool
| Make a 1 day before bottling
| Add to bottling bucket before beer. Then add beer and bottle
| Lager for at least 3 months  at  38F
| Probably better after 5 months.
|
| Thank you in advance.
| Colby Fry
| 17244
|



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:21:24 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer

Craig Olson  <craigo at nas.com> wrote:

<snip> "... and bought a six of a good local
microbrew and was struck by it's clarity.  (LaConner Brewing Co. ESB, BTW -
great stuff)  Anyway - most all my beer is cloudy.  It tastes great so I've
never worried about it much but that crisp clear pint of LBC brew has got
me thinking.  I've read everything I can get my hands on about filtering,
clarifiers, finings & such I've not yet grokked what's needed to get clear
beer.  What's your experience and what have *you* done to get clear beer?"

Hi Craig,

Short of running it thru a filter, there are many ways of getting clearer
brews.
One way is to have a vigorous boil, with an Irish Moss addition (at 15 to 20
min remaining) and using a chiller... These 3 things alone will promote a
good hot & cold break and coagulation.

Proper syphoning techniques from the kettle and fermenter(s) to the
bottle/keg will also greatly enhance the clarity of the finished product.

When syphoning from the kettle, ensure with either positioning or with the
aid of a racking cane **filter that the draw end is above the trub (and to
the side of it), by forming a whirlpool in the kettle (stirring vigorously,
in a circular on direction motion at knock-off) which will cause the
break/hop materials to settle into the center of the kettle...  (**I use a
combination stainless steel "chore-boy" covered with a muslin hop bag which
is tied to the draw end of the cane).

Using a secondary will help alot.

When syphoning from the fermenter(s), ensure with either positioning &/or
with the aid of a racking cane "cap" that the draw end is above the trub.
There are also a number of clarifying agents that can be added after the
boil and are used in the either the fermenter or keg.   Among them are
PolyClar, Silica Gel, Issinglas & Gelatin.

Of course, forced carbonation will also help, but you can make reasonably
clear reconditioned-in-the-bottle beers, too.

I might also add the using high flocculant yeasts (vs powdery) will also aid
in clarification.

RJ <aka Olde Phenomian>
43:30:3.298 W
71:39:9.911 N




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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:27:52 -0500
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: SG correction and kettle volume

> > Isn't there about a 11% increase in volume at boiling temperatures?
>
> I have a table that says boiling water takes up 5% more volume that at 60L. I
> believe I got it from the HBD many (like 7) years ago on a topic of SG
> correction factors. I used to use it to correct the hydrometer SG of very warm

Again, a quick search of the archives reveals that this exact table has a page
of its very own! http://hbd.org/brewery/library/HydromCorr0992.html

As you can see, the density (you are my density...) of boiling water is .958
compared to 59F = 1.0. So, if you boil 10 gallons, it would appear that you
have 10.44 gallons in the pot (10 / .95838).

I usually aim for 11 gallons of cooled wort so that I end up with 10 gallons
of finished beer. So I stop boiling around 11.5 gallons to allow for the
shrinkage.

A second note about my leaky immersion chiller. One of the two batches that
it affected was my Bavarian Roggenbier experiment. I ended up with an OG of
1.044 instead of my target of 1.055 so the brew is a bit on the thin side.
It tastes fine and not much different than a regular Bavarian weiss.
Considering the difficulty and effort of mashing malted rye and losing about
20% of the wort due to fluffy break material, it will be a while before
I try this one again.

Dennis

[175.3mi, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio)
In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength.
In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb



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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:32:46 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: CF chiller

While an immersion chiller works great for many brewers,
I've found that the overall water used for 10 gallon batches
and larger is too great.  Also, in my particular setup I'm
using a pump to move the beer out of the kettle, through the
chiller, and into the fermenter.  If I run the pump with the
valve about 1/4 open I can chill a 10 gallon batch in 10
minutes with roughly 30 gallons of water.

Sanitizing the chiller is easy.  Run boiling water through
it immediately after use (I always have 2 gallons of boiling
water at the ready post-brew) and before using it again.  I
boil my sparge water then place it in my fermenting
buckets.  This sanitizes the buckets and the water cools
down to the 170-175F range when I need it.  Just before
using the chiller I recirculate StarSan through it for 5
minutes.  This is next to no work as I'm just running things
through the pump and chiller that I use anyway.

Lastly, the reason I moved away from the immersion chiller
was the 10 gallon batch I was trying to brew 2 years ago.
Set the chiller in the kettle, turned on the water, and went
about cleaning up everything else.  When I came back to
check the temps the kettle was nearly full!  5 gallons of
water seeped in through a leak in the chiller.  Took another
2 hours to boil off the liquid.  Beer was good, though.  I
decided to drop the $75 on a professionally manufactured
chiller (Heart's MaxiChiller, which I love, NAYYY).


- --
RED CROSS DISASTER RELIEF FUND
http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:59:52 -0500
From: Matt <shwalker at geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer

Craig Olson was experiencing cloudy beer and was wondering about 
clarifiers, filters and a variety of other solutions.

Craig, the only clarifier I use in my beer is a bit of Irish moss at boil 
time to keep protein haze under control. I find that if I drink my beer 
young (2 weeks after bottling) it's got chill haze, but if I wait another 
month it pops crystal clear.

That said, here's some detailed notes about how I brew:

 - I sanitize everything I can in my kitchen before doing any cold-side 
work. I even sanitize my countertops and floors to reduce the amount of 
spores and bacteria kicking around in the dust. This is one of many 
"overkill" things I do.. but better over than under on sanitization.

 - I generally use white labs California ale or east coast ale yeast. Both 
of these yeasts flocculate fairly well. A low flocculation yeast can be a 
real pain to get out of suspension from what I've read. Check up on the 
yeasts you're using

 - I use an immersion chiller, if you aren't using some form of chiller or 
another (immersion counterflow, etc) you should strongly consider one if 
clear is your goal.

 - I'm a bit of a freak about trub in my primary ferment. I generally let my 
wort settle and rack it 3 times (settling at least 20 mins between 
rackings) before aerating and pitching. This is probably overkill, but 
gives me a nice clear wort into the primary, which gives me warm fuzzies. 
I'm generally pretty technical about my brewing decisions, but some warm 
fuzzies make it more fun for me.

 -I force aerate with an aquarium pump, sterile filter, and stainless steel 
airstone. This may or may not improve clarity, but it gives you a rocking 
primary ferment which seems to improve flavor.

 - I primary for about 5 days till it slows, then secondary ferment in a 5 
gallon glass carboy for 2 weeks.I feel adding the secondary was an 
improvement in clarity and flavor of my beer (if nothing else, it's more 
mature when I bottle it, so I can't drink it while it's still really green)

 - I use a "mostly closed" primary in a 7 gal food-grade plastic bucket. 
About 24-36 hours after the ferment gets rolling, I pop the fermenter open 
and skim with a very carefully sanitized skimmer. I also sanitize the 
fermenter around the lid, and my hands before opening it. This step is 
probably silly and unnecessary, but I tend to have a hard time getting all 
the break to settle out of my beer before racking into the fermenter. This 
gives me an extra chance to skim off some trub hanging out in the foam 
layer early in the cycle. It's likely pure sillyness on my part, but I do 
it every batch and I'm happy with my overall results, so why stop?

 - I crash cool my secondary for 1-2 days sitting in a fridge. My beer is 
clear going into the fridge in the secondary, but comes out hazy (chill 
haze). This chilling pulls more yeast out, which slows my natural 
carbonation time, but reduces the amount of sediment in my bottles and 
seems to be an overall improvement. It takes 2-3 weeks for my beer to 
carbonate after adding sugar, but again, I like the results. I've even had 
some batches come out clear, with no visible sediment on the bottom of the 
bottle when fully done.

 -My beer tends to be cloudy when chilled for about 4-6 weeks after 
bottling, sometime after that it will be clear when chilled. I tend to 
leave it at room temp for as long as I can, but I often chill a single 
bottle after 2 weeks to see how it is going. Bottles chilled early that 
threw haze will eventually clarify for me even if left chilled, but it 
seems (might be a false perception on my part) to take longer than at room 
temp.


All that said, I'm sure someone out there has different views and will 
think some of my ideas are silly (heck, I think some of my ideas are 
silly), and I'd love to hear any comments from others.

Good luck in your quest for clear beer, and in the meantime, be sure to 
enjoy what you're making. If you get too caught up in the details it may 
become unenjoyable, but I'm one of those weirdos who likes the little 
details and I enjoy finding new little tweaks to my process. (You'd never 
know if from the lack of cleaning of my office desk and apartment in general)


Matt Kettler



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:21:29 -0800 
From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us
Subject: Increasing Wheat Character


Hi.

I've just received some judging sheets from a competition where the judges
noted that the beer (a Berliner weisse) could have used more wheat flavor
and aroma.

The original recipe for the weisse was 70% wheat and 30% 2-row pilsner.  I
used 1# of rice hulls and 2 oz hops in the mash to help loosen things up.
The mash was the following:
20 min  at  126F
40 min  at  144F
30 min  at  162F
5 min 172F mashout.
I used an Alt yeast to ferment.  When it finished I combined it with a mini
l.delbruckeii ferment for sourness.

Any ideas on how to increase the wheat character of this beer?

I would think the only places where I could change things would be either
the grist bill (going 100% wheat) or the yeast (something other than a clean
alt yeast).

Thanks for your help.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Szwaya
Portland, OR


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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:19:29 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Lead in Beer? / Zinc & Neoprene in Wort / Bacterial Growth

Gregor asks about a brass fitting that was never de-leaded with the 
vinegar/peroxide solution and has seen 50 batches. He is concerned whether 
it should be done now, and if he and his friends have already been 
poisoned. (to paraphrase).
In a word, No.
The amount of lead in one brass fitting, or ten for that matter, is tiny. 
about 3% by weight, most of which is in the interior and not exposed to the 
surface. And, what little is on the surface is not very soluble. Yes, you 
may have drank all of that lead by now, but the amount is so small compared 
to say the amount breathed in due to leaded gasoline 30 years ago, that it 
is insignificant.
Relax, don't worry, have a beer.  :-)
**'
Re: Adam's Gott conversion questions, I honestly don't know how much zinc 
would come off a galvanized washer during the mash. Not much would come off 
a brass fitting, that's for sure, given the small (~15%) amount used in 
most brass alloys. Some zinc would be beneficial for yeast metabolism, but 
large amounts would cause off-flavors from excessive metabolic processes. 
But like I said, I have no idea on how much might come off. Probably very 
little, probably not enough to make a difference. I wonder if I could soak 
one in a wort in the lab and look for a weight difference....That might 
work....
I routinely use black plumbing washers in my bulkhead fittings with no 
off-flavors. But! I thoroughly wash them of any oils before use. I use 
dishwashing detergent or PBW and rinse under hot water.
**
At this past summer's AHA conference, Dave Logsden of Wyeast Labs gave a 
very interesting talk on Yeast and Pitching. One of his main points was 
data that showed that bacterial growth far outstrips yeast growth, and that 
pitching time had no significant effect on bacterial growth. The take-home 
message was that your sanitation was paramount, and that 
pitch-fast-to-prevent-spoilage is a falsehood that has been perpetuated in 
the literature (by myself included).

Good Brewing,
John


John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepagex
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:06:19 -0800 
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Plastic Pipe Use

Hi,
  I know you're supposed to throw away plastic pipe after some use to ensure
no infection gets into your wort, but is this just with piping used to
transfer wort, or does it also apply to water-only pipe like from Hot Liquor
Tank to the Mash Tun?
Thanks,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:33:34 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE: Lager Yeast/ lysozyme

I had originally planned to ask Brian Lundeen 
<blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> a few questions about
lysozyme - but I figgered that I'd just ask via the 
HBD so every one can jump in, too.

Where can I get lysozyme?

And how is it used? How do you inject it, prep it for
injecting it, etc?

It sounds like something I should be doing.

Also, the very question of pitching temps has been a big 
un-satisfactory answered question. What Brian professes
sounds very logical. But in practice is it worth the trouble?


Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC
bsheck at skantech.net // [140.6, 583.2] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:23:15 -0500 
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters and Magnetic Stirrers

Steve Jones from Johnson City, Tennessee wrote:
 
"I recently acquired a magnetic stirrer for making my starters and
wanted to make some comments about it."
 
Well, Steve, I too have a magnetic stirrer and have been using it ever since
I returned from the NHC in Los Angles in June.  The seminar I attended 
there convinced me that it was the one best way to increase yeast cell 
growth.  And that is what you are trying to do with a yeast starter.  The 
research that was presented showed that the increase was 6 times what 
you get without a magnetic stirrer.  In addition I inject oxygen into the 
starter wortprior to adding the yeast and try to keep the temperature of 
the starter up around 80F.  Remember, we're trying to 
grow yeast cells here not make beer.
 
If I'm brewing on Saturday, I begin my starter on Wednesday night.  Could 
be a smack pack.  Could be slurry.  Could be a tube.  I let the starter sit 
until the next morning to see what kind of activity there is and then turn on 
the stirrer.  On Friday night I add more starter wort to the flask and 
continue the stirrer.  The volume will depend on the amount of beer I 
want to make.I normally use 1L - 1.2L per 5 gals for a 1.050 - 1.060 beer.
More if the gravity is higher.  I do not normally decant prior to pitching.
 
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Mi
 
On a good day, I'm about 10 golf strokes away from the center of the 
homebrewing universe.  In common terms that means "not too far" or 
"pretty damn close".
 
"We're not ordinary people, we're morons" - Curly Howard




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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:37:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt Contest Extended

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Since teh HBD server experienced a crash for a period of eight
hours just prior to the voting deadline, I'm extending it to
Wednesday evening.

Cheers! And my apologies for the outtage. Busy afternoon at
work, and a class night, so I don't get home until quite late...

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:47:06 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: Re: pretzels / lye

I remember my mother talking about when she was fairly young, going to visit
a relative's home for several weeks during the summer. The aunt she was
visiting ask if she liked hommony. Yes. So her aunt, using a churn, corn,
water and lye, made a whole dang churn full of hommony. Growing up we had
hommony very few times. What kind of lye she used, I have know idea but I
would believe it was the drain cleaning type. In the States a local farming
supply may have it or places that cater to people that can may have or know
of a purer form of lye. Around here Southern States comes to mind.

Mike




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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:51:13 -0500
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Lead in Brass

Gregor,

Don't worry.  I'm a Metallurgist, and believe me, if your solder sweated Cu
household pipes are marginal, that fitting is so small, with so little Pb in
it, you'll be just fine.

           Dave



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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:47:57 -0500
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer ("Craig Olson")

Craig,

A teaspoon of Irish Moss can be thrown into the brew pot about 10 minutes
before the end of the boil, and then when you bottle (or keg) about 3 weeks
or so of refrigeration will clarify it reasonably well.  There are subtle
issues about things like a rapid cool down from boiling, but "relax and have
a home brew."  If the taste is what you wanted it to be, a little cloudiness
is no big thing.

Isinglass and Polyclear are 2 other coagulants which I'm told work well, but
I haven't tried.  The concept of all is to form the very fine particulates
into agglomerates which are larger, hence will settle out faster. Check out
this for more information:
http://brewpubmag.com/97jul/craftbrewer.html

          Dave King (BIER)



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Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:58:57 +1030
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Re:alcohol content

Hi Jim, I often 'fine tune' the ABV of my beer and it's easily done.
I just juggle the volume
i.e. 23 litres  at  5% =
25.5 litres  at  4.5% =
28.75 litres  at  4% =
19 litres  at  6%

Using quick mental arithmetic I do thus -
23 x 5 = 115
Now divide 115 by your desired ABV, lets say 4%
115/4 = 28.75 litres.

As they say down under 'near enough is good enough', there'll be slight 
variables of course but it works fine.

Goodonya,
Thomas
Hahndorf
South Australia



At 03:43  31/10/01, Jim wrote:
>I brew several of the Coopers products which usually turn out around 5%
>  alcohol content. Looking for any ideas in the brewing process to be
>able to cut this back a little.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jim
>Stillwater, Minnesota





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