HOMEBREW Digest #3780 Tue 06 November 2001

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  Cloudy Beer ("Craig Olson")
  Home roasting site/ oz craftbrewers new address (craftbrewer)
  Lead in Brass ("Gregor Zellmann")
  pitching into warm wort ...(was re: lager yeast)/lysozyme ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: pretzels / lye (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Measuring Kettle Volume ("RJ")
  At least I CAN spell Beer. (Perez)
  Wort Chiller ("Tom Williams")
  Re: lager yeast ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Yeast Starters (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Gott Conversion ("Adam G. Fisher")
  Brass vs. Stainless (Richard Foote)
  Hammerhead Clone (Jeff)
  RE: Measuring Kettle Volume and other musings ("Dennis Lewis")
  Teeshirt selection voting... (Pat Babcock)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:41:34 -0800 From: "Craig Olson" <craigo at nas.com> Subject: Cloudy Beer Today I ran out of homebrew (egad!) and bought a six of a good local microbrew and was struck by it's clarity. (LaConner Brewing Co. ESB, BTW - great stuff) Anyway - most all my beer is cloudy. It tastes great so I've never worried about it much but that crisp clear pint of LBC brew has got me thinking. I've read everything I can get my hands on about filtering, clarifiers, finings & such I've not yet grokked what's needed to get clear beer. What's your experience and what have *you* done to get clear beer? Craig Olson Lummi Island, Washington ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Craig Olson - Progressive folk-rock music & tribal spirit grooves http://www.CraigOlson.com ~~ http://www.mp3.com/craigolson "The same stream of life that runs through my veins runs through the world and dances in rhythmic measure." - R. Tagore ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:29:17 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Home roasting site/ oz craftbrewers new address G'Day All / Well I have been stired from my semi-inactivity on this balmy afternoon, sucking on my rainforrest rauch to help out a fellow brewer. Yes I have been a contented pup, no more so with the new a large brew pub will open soon in the tropics (almost next door). With my help I am sure this one will be a huge success. Our succession from the rest of Australia is complete, so I can finish training the last of the taipans and water lizards to keep all those southerners and tourists out. / But it was asked / >>>>I have taken the plunge into all-grain, and would like to roast some of that 50 lbs. sack of grain myself. Are there any good websites on doing this? Can it be done in a regular home oven?<<<<<<< / This ties in nicely with a notice I have to make about a new address for our website. For information on home roasting (not a bad article actually) as well as other articles, like the one that shows I have been practiced open fermentation for years (Phil you have to get arround) are available on our website. / Our website has changed address. Oz craftbrewers is now just Craftbrewer. / The new address is www.craftbrewer.org / Shout Graham Sanders / Oh The downturn in the airline industry has had one advantage. The mouth from the south, Baroness Yates, will no longer be coming to the North any more. This is not good news, but GREAT news. He should realise that any man is the king of his own domain - Now the bugger will have to stay there and see if its actually true. As for us in the North, well, the celebrations haven't stopped. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:18:26 +0100 From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de> Subject: Lead in Brass hi fellow brewers, for about 50 batches now I use a modified 50 l keg as my brewing kettle. Although it has a 3/4 inch ss-fitting welded in place for holding a spigot, it was hard to find a 3/4 " spigot, while 1/2 " spigots were available. So I used a "reduction piece" 3/4 " -> 1/2 " made from brass to solve the problem. Now I heard of the lead in brass problem and wonder, if it still makes sense to treat that brass piece with vinegar/hydrogen peroxide. I am afraid, that all the worts have washed out the lead already and I and my friends have swallowed it already. What do you think? Gregor Zellmann Berlin, Germany [4247.6, 43.4] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:16:15 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at att.net> Subject: pitching into warm wort ...(was re: lager yeast)/lysozyme Rick Magnan writes >> From: "Pannicke, Glen [...] >> Brian wrote ... >> >I believe ANY yeast, but especially lagers, should be pitched at >> >fermentation temperature, >> >> I couldn't agree more with Brian, especially if you're doing a pilsner. > >When I make lagers I cool the wort to room temp, pitch the yeast and >take it out to the 45F degree garage. Assuming it takes at least a few >hours to cool to the ambient temp, what specifically will be happening >thats not "best" about this? During the first few hours of fermentation yeast are developing almost all of the unsaturated fatty acids(UFA) that will ever appear. This is because UFA synthesis requires oxygen and there is free oxygen only early in the wort. The UFAs have a very important role in the yeast membranes. They directly impact yeasts alcohol tolerance and temperature tolerance. There is a very strong relationship between lower fermentation temperatures and higher yeast UFA levels. I've never seen a study that tests the full premise, but I would expect that yeast pitched into warm, once-aerated wort will be more sensitive to cold-shock and less alcohol tolerant. >Pitching ASAP is also a goal so there >are competing interests here. Which should prevail and why? Pitch into cool (even too cool) wort for improved yeast performance, pitch quickly for improved infection domination. If your infections controls are very good, then pitching a few hours later shouldn't be a problem. If you can justify a CFC chiller, then you can have cool wort immediately. In the case of lager brewing we also have the problem with warm fermentation producing esters and other out-of-style flavor components. === I have no problem with the use of lysozyme, but I have some doubts about where to use it. In my personal experience many, probably most, beer infections are not bacterial, but fungal. If you anticipate an infection of any sort, then better sanitation procedures are called for. If you already have an infection it's probably too late. I can see lysozyme as a nice alternative to acid washing stored yeast, but I don't think I'd bother to use it for regular prophyaxis. == I'll refrain from disturbing Mr.Fix with an email, but my sincere best wishes to him and Laurie. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:41:21 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: pretzels / lye "Bob Sutton" <Bob at homebrew.com> expressed concern about using Drano "100% lye for simmering pretzels, and Paul Kerchefske <wadworth6 at yahoo.com> wrote: >Ok I'll bite,where do you get food grade lye? Or is >this like the Alar thing? By the way I tried the >recipe, great, only problem was that they stuck to the >parchment paper. Too wet, thought about using some >corn meal, or letting them dry on a rack rather than a >towel. There might be something in that paper too, >someone should check on that. Good question about the lye. The bakeries I know of just use Red Devil, or at least they did years ago when I last knew. I suppose you'd never, ever get the Red Devil or Drano companies to to say you could use their lye internally in any way.. The lawyers wouldn't stand for it, even it there were no apparent problem. I may look further into it. The alternative is to use about 1/3 cup baking soda in a quart of water to simmer them in. Not sure if there is such a thing as food grade lye. Kind of an oxymoron. Reagent grade would be overkill. Regarding the wet pretzels sticking to the bakers parchment. I like to drain the pretzels on a wet kitchen towel (non-terry cloth type) for a minute or two. If you drain them on a dry towel, they stick to that. The commercial bakers parchment I use is silicone treated. I suppose the kind you buy in a kitchen store is too, but you might want to make sure. Non-stick spray is a good idea, too. Nobody's tried the old bee's wax technique? Too bad. I wanted to know how it worked. I may have to try it myself. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:37:13 -0500 From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Measuring Kettle Volume "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> wrote: "How do you all measure your kettle volume? With a sight glass? I use a "dip stick" calibrated to my brew pot. A problem is that the volume of the wort is a function of the temperature isn't it? Isn't there about a 11% increase in volume at boiling temperatures? Often I get less finished wort than I thought I measured it when in the kettle when I measure the cooled wort in my fermenter. So I recalibrated my dip stick by using near boiling water at the time. Seems better but still slightly off. Any suggestions on getting this right?" David, Not sure if you'll ever be able to hit it on the nose, as a great deal of other things also come into play when thinking about the kettle displacement of the wort... For instance, the break materials and hops are going to add the displacement, in the kettle and may actually "raise" the volume an inch or two (even at rest). RJ <aka Olde Phenomian> 43.50231 North by 71.65218 West SE PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:41:33 -0500 From: Perez <perez at gator.net> Subject: At least I CAN spell Beer. Sorry about the spelling error. Diacetyl not Diacytil. I hadn't had my first beer yet and was excitedly anticipating the Florida Gator game, our beer club's party at the house of the couple with the walk in cooler filled with incredible beer and of course the Sunday afternoon Belgian tasting and Mead contest judging. Wow, what a weekend. BTW do I have to apologize tomorrow for the run on sentence? Spell checked with only 4 errors this time ;^} Dave Perez, Official Grammarian (Newly Appointed) Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:54:45 -0500 From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353 at hotmail.com> Subject: Wort Chiller You probably got a ton of answers to this, but here's my $0.02 anyway.... You wrote: "I have been thinking about making one of those copper coil wort chillers and I was wondering would it be more efficient to run cold water through the coil submerged in the wort or run the wort through the coil submerged in cold water?" I'm not sure of the answer to your thermodynamic question, but I am positive that the thermal efficiency difference between water in the tubes and wort in the tubes is insignificant compared to the cleaning and sanitation concerns. Design it to run water through the tubing and sanitizing is ridiculously easy - just let the coil sit in the kettle for the last 5-10 minutes of the boil. I made mine from 3/8" copper tubing from Home Depot. I forget how many feet of tubing, but I made it by bending the tubing around a large (3lb.?) coffee can. The "in" and "out" tubes form the handle, shaped sort of like a giant ladel, with the pair of in/out tubes bent at 90 deg. at the top for easy handling. I wove a couple of lengths of #12 copper wire up and down the coils to stiffen them, and used a compression fitting to connect to a garden hose thread (in) and shoved a piece of flexible hose on the other (out). With Georgia tap water temperatures and GENTLE back and forth agitation, I can cool 6 gal of boiling wort to under 90F in less than 10 minutes. In Maine, you will probably do better than that. Watch out for the water exiting the cooler when you first turn on the cooling water - it will be HOT! The copper tubing will burn your hand for the first minute or so. I brew on the back patio and water the plants with the outlet stream. I don't know why any homebrewer bothers with a counterflow chiller. Tom Williams Dunwoody, Georgia (577,183) Rennerian - (I surrender - this is [distance, azimuth]) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:40:32 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: lager yeast Rick wrote: >When I make lagers I cool the wort to room temp, pitch the yeast and >take it out to the 45F degree garage. Assuming it takes at least a few >hours to cool to the ambient temp, what specifically will be happening >thats not "best" about this? And would I, or the yeast rather, be better >off waiting a few hours to pitch? Pitching ASAP is also a goal so there >are competing interests here. Which should prevail and why? Rick, you know this one has no best answer ;-) It really depends on what you are capable of doing. If you have to wait a long period of time for your wort to cool, you're sloppy with sanitization and you don't use a large starter, then you're best pitching at room temp and chilling slowly. The yeast are gonna need that warmer temp to grow faster in order to out-compete the spoilage bacteria which will funkinate your brew - elevated fruitiness or not. funk'-i-nate (v) - to cause funkiness in a bad way; to spoil with strange odor and taste. Not to be confused with funktify - which is a good thang ;-) Of course the converse is true, if you can chill to low temps quickly , have good sanitization and a large starter you're going to overcome the the wort spoilers and avoid fruitiness in your beer. I only really practice *all* elements of what I preach for Pilsners. If I'm doing a non-Pils style lager, I leave out the icebath pre-chiller and do as you do, pitch at room temp and chill. It's going to take a while for the temps to settle out in the fridge. One big thing is that the starter is close to the temperature at which you pitch. If you pitch at the temp you brew, all the better. Don't cold-shock or heat-shock your yeast. You may retard the growth rate by killing some or extending their acclimation period. It may mean the difference of days vs. hours in your lag time. All things considered, do my non-Pils lagers taste worse than my Pils? No. Inferior, maybe, but that only has to do with my personal style preferences ;-) Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:02:42 -0500 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Yeast Starters Hello, all. I recently acquired a magnetic stirrer for making my starters and wanted to make some comments about it. Here is the procedure I used: Take the agar slant that my yeast is stored in and fill it with wort (about 8-10 ml). Let it grow for 2 days, shaking as often as I can. Add this to ~200 ml in a 1000ml flask, dripping the last bit into a new slant to regrow the yeast for storage. Place the flask on stir plate and run for 3 days. Add to ~800ml in a 2000 ml flask and run for 3 days. The night before brew day put 2000ml flask in fridge. The morning of brew day decant the liquid, add ~1000 ml wort, mix with stir plate for a few minutes, then set it on the counter. On Friday I brewed a 1.120 old ale, and the airlock (sorry Doc & Phil, I still use them occasionally for primaries) was active within 4 hours after pitching. I used a total of about 2 liters of (canned) wort for the starter. I want to point out that there never was visible indication of yeast growth during this process, other than the visible sediment after removing from fridge. In fact, I was a little concerned about this, and about halfway thru Friday's brew session I looked at the starter and there wasn't any apparent activity (no airlock - just a piece of foil on top). So, I picked up the starter and swirled it a bit just to check on it, and it foamed rather violently and overflowed a little. I realize that my initial step up is higher than the usually suggested max of 10x, but since I got such a quick start on my fermentation, I think it worked well. I don't really think that the 10x rule of thumb applies when using a stir plate. I was wondering if I might be able to shorten the times between steps. I suspect that I can drop the first stirring stage to 2 days, and the second one to 1 day. Any comments? - ------------------------------------------------------ By the way, I have withdrawn my Rennerian Calculator and put up a link to Brian's. It seems there was an error in my bearing calculation and I just decided to defer to Brian's calculator. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:15:23 -0500 From: "Adam G. Fisher" <adamgfisher at earthlink.net> Subject: Gott Conversion Hi all, I've done a lot of web searches and HBD searches but wanted to ask a few more questions. First i'm converting a 10 gal. Gott into a mash tun. The first question is materials. Right now I have brass fittings for all the basic peices ( Ball Valve, Nipple, Compression fitting, hose barb). I also have some Neoprene washer to help seal it all. I lastly some Zinc washers. My first issue id with the Zinc Washer. One of these will be inside the tank. Is Zinc safe for mash temperatures? Also the Neoprene Rubber gasket. I've read that neoprene is good to 250 degree but I've also read the neoprene isn't good for beer. I have no problem starting over and returning the parts I have. What would you all do? Materials, part numbers, etc. Thanks for any help you can give me. Adam Fisher Boston, MA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:22:12 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Brass vs. Stainless Brewers, Just to set the record straight... C.D. Pritchard wrote recently that brass was an alloy of copper and tin. It is actually an alloy of copper and zinc. I believe copper and tin make bronze. Anyway, the fact that brass is made with zinc brings up an interesting point: Could the zinc content of brass fittings have a beneficial effect on yeast health due to the helpful benefits of zinc? Does it get into the wort in any amount and is it in a form accessible to the little critters? Let more debate ensue. Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Definitely South of Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff <duckinchicago at yahoo.com> Subject: Hammerhead Clone I used to live in Oregon and my favorite beer was and still is McMenamins Hammerhead ale. I believe its one of the best examples of an APA out there. Since I started brewing a couple years ago (and moved away from the Northwest :(, I've tried a couple stabs at duplicating Hammerhead, but the one thing that I taste when I'm back there, is the yeast strain. It seems to be a "clean" strain, but its much less flocculant than the "American" strains out there (WL, Wyeast). It gives the beer a very nice fruitiness that goes nicely with the cascade overload. I'm sure it must be a propietary strain, but does anyone have any idea of something commercially available that might be similar? I've often wondered if McMenamins small batch approach to craft brewing has something to do with the quality of their beers, and they seem to have an amazing consistency for as many different places as they brew. Quite an interesting case study in brewing philosophy. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:16:41 -0500 From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com> Subject: RE: Measuring Kettle Volume and other musings David Houseman asks.... > How do you all measure your kettle volume? With a sight glass? I use a > "dip stick" calibrated to my brew pot. A problem is that the volume of the I calibrated my stick using a physician's scale in kilograms ( = liters). I set the weight, then filled the kettle with water until it balanced. This method eliminated built-up errors from either over or underfilling the 1 gallon milk jug. I took the Microbrewery Operations course at Siebel in Dec 95 at the (now defunct?) Chicago Brewing Co. They had a 50 bbl kettle and a long oak dip stick marked off in barrels up to 60 bbl, which was max kettle volume. Not sure how they calibrated it.... > Isn't there about a 11% increase in volume at boiling temperatures? I have a table that says boiling water takes up 5% more volume that at 60L. I believe I got it from the HBD many (like 7) years ago on a topic of SG correction factors. I used to use it to correct the hydrometer SG of very warm wort (like 130F), until I got a refractometer and didn't have to chill much wort to get a good reading. > So I recalibrated my dip stick by using near boiling > water at the time. Seems better but still slightly off. Any suggestions on > getting this right? Measurement of boiling wort is a very imprecise thing. My stick is wooden and causes quite a bit of localized boiling when I put it in. Plus a good rolling boil will have the surface of the wort moving pretty good, at least a few liters in my case. I take a kettle full gravity reading along with a near-boiling volume reading. Then I figure out how much volume I need to evaporate to hit my desired gravity. The estimated finish volume is really a close guess. I lose more volume to the break and spent hops than to the 5% shrinkage from cooling. I recently had a few brews where I was ending up with wort that had a much lower SG than I thought it should have, based on the kettle full measurements. I attributed it to evaporation of the hot sample and didn't think much of it. Until.... I pulled out my immersion chiller with the water still on and I had a pin-hole leak. Not too much, but enough to add about a gallon to the brew in 30 minutes. That diluted my brew about 10%. Ugh. What I'm really interested in is making a 12P ESB or a 16P porter, not exactly 10 gallons of whatever. I never measure the final cooled kettle volume with my wooden stick. Even though it's been in and out of boiling wort, I just never trust the cleanliness of the stick. I do measure what's gone into the fermenter (a plastic cylin-cone from minibrew, calibrated the same way as the stick) and what's left in the kettle, and it's usually pretty close to my predicted final volume (+/- 5%). Hop additions may need to be adjusted for small volume fluctuations, but there are so many fudge-factors built into the utilization calcs, that it hardly seems necessary. Dennis Lewis [175.6mi, 114.3] Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio) In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:17:31 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Teeshirt selection voting... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... With the voting to end 11/7, there is a clear winner now. But have you - Yes, YOU! - gotten over to http://hbd.org, selected "teeshirt contest" from the menu, and placed your vote?! About 10% of the subscribed Digest recipients have voted to date - a good turn out, by all accounts, but we can do better! Will your vote support, widen, or close the gap? Only you know, and today's your last chance! VOTE! - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
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