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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Double Pitching Yeast for a Tripel ("Eric and Susan Armstrong")
  RE: Arogant Bastard et al ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Turkey Fryers (Mike Lemons)
  Nitro Faucets (Drew Beechum)
  Yeast starters/Alcohol. ("Colin Marshall")
  Re: Quick and Easy Guinness-style head (Jeff Renner)
  Re: carboy issues and CPBF (Jeff Renner)
  Flying Bison Brewing Company (Hop_Head)
  re: Yeast Starters (John Schnupp)
  Schmidling Maltmill ("olsen-riley")
  Gruit, herbs used in beer ("chris eidson")
  Re:  chocolate flavor ("Bruce Millington")


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:43:48 -0600
From: "Eric and Susan Armstrong" <erica at isunet.net>
Subject: Double Pitching Yeast for a Tripel

I have researched some threads on dual yeast additions for a tripel, but the
technique was not well defined. Timing was mentioned as critical. Also, it
was recommended not to mix the yeasts in the primary and the to add the more
attenuative yeast last. When is the proper time to add the second yeast?
Does one add the second yeast to the primary once gravity falls below a
relative point or does one add it to the secondary and hold it at the
primary temperature for a couple of weeks or would you add it at bottling?"
I understand that adding yeast at bottling would be a good idea since these
big beers are aged. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge? Also, would
cold conditioning a tripel be a good idea once the second yeast has had some
time to assert itself?



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:45:59 -0800
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <bis9170 at home.com>
Subject: RE: Arogant Bastard et al

Hi,

The local homebrew club I'm a part of imbibes quite a bit of both
Stone's and Alesmith's brews (i.e. San Diego brew club supporting S.D.
craft brewers), and no other beer has stirred up as much debate as the
ol' Bastard Ale. Heck, we can't even agree on it's style...! "Brown
Ale on steroids", "Pseudo-Barleywine", and "American Olde Ale" are all
phrases I've heard bantered about....!

The consensus is that Arogant Bastard is a bigger, maltier, more
bitter, and higher-alcohol version of American Brown Ale. I haven't
tried cloning this brew (yet!), but if I were, I'd start out with
Papazian's "Buzzdigh Moog Double Brown Ale" recipe (The Homebrewer's
Companion, page 288), but use typical Stone hops: Chinook, Perle,
maybe some Willamette.

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:03:42 -0800
From: Mike Lemons <ndcent at hotmail.com>
Subject: Turkey Fryers

I stopped by Home Depot to examine one of those deep fryers on sale for
Thanksgiving. I quickly realized that they are not stainless steel. They
are aluminum. They have a 26 quart and a 34 quart. There is a small hole
in the lid. The 34 quart would be big enough for 5 gallon batches if you
don't mind the aluminum. The burner looked pretty heavy duty, though,
probably 150,000 BTU. The stand has projections around the top edge so
that if you got a stainless steel brew pot, a 60 quart probably will not
fit so you would still be limited to 5 gallon batches.  Here is the web
page:  http://www.bayou-classic.com/turkey/index.html

I have a flyer from Wal-Mart that has a 30 quart fryer for $39.96.
Apparently it's only available on Friday morning (?) I don't even know
if this message will post by then.


As for the attempt to recover beer after it's been consumed, you are not
taking into account losses due to perspiration and breathing.  If you
want to do a proper experiment, wear a rubber suit and hold your breath.


Domenick Venezia has a good web page about yeast starters.  Do you
really use 200 grams of DME in 1.7 liters?  Does that give you a gravity
of 1.117?

Mike Lemons
Carlsbad, CA


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:55:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
Subject: Nitro Faucets


First.. the cheapest faucet can be had for right around ~$45, but then
you'll need all the usual stuff to adapt it to a corny, or just a $1
faucet wrench to place in a tower. 

Regarding pressure regulators.. It depends upon how you get the beer
gas mix. If you get it in an honest to god nitro can then, yes, a
special regulator is needed. If you can get it in a CO2 bottle, then
your regular regulator will work cause the pressure might be higher,
but it's not out of the range of the standard regulators. Cuts a
little bit of cost. Fortunately in our club one of our big members
sells beer, soda, CO2, and Nitro. Makes it easy to get what you want.

As for all of the approximation techniques mentioned (syringe, creamer
faucet, etc) they do work pretty well... but there's very little like
pouring out a nice glass of nitro'd stout straight from the
faucet. Fools your friends into thinking you're a Guinness heir! (And
CT can attest to my love of the Nitro stout as I usually have one on
tap here in the homestead)

- -- Drew Beechum
Maltose Falcons
Los Angeles, CA
[1942, 264.7] Apparent Rennerian

Mark Tumarkin writes:
 > ------------------------------
 > 
 > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:33:11 -0500
 > From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
 > Subject: Nitrogenation
 > 
 > on the Nitrogenation thread, CT writes:
 > "In addition to the CO2 equipment, one only needs to get the
 > slow-pour tap and and the nitrogen (or  beer gas--75/25) bottle.  I'm
 > not sure how much the bottle will cost but a  tap can be had for $70
 > or so, and gas doesn't cost too much. "
 > 
 > My understanding was that the nitrogen, or beer gas, also required
 > a higher pressure regulator than CO2? I believe the same type of
 > regulator as O2? Is this the case?
 > 
 > Mark Tumarkin
 > Gainesville, FL



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:29:44 +1100
From: "Colin Marshall" <byoah at argay.com.au>
Subject: Yeast starters/Alcohol.

As my Scottish blood won't allow me to brew just one batch of beer from a
single Wyeast or White Labs (and the cost is a tad prohibitive, too), I
harvest the sludge from the bottom of the primary fermenter in 8 x 375 ml
stubbies and store them in the fridge for future use. I sterilize everything
with 50% alcohol which I make.....I mean, a bloke I hardly know makes at
home. My Q. is this: will I jeopardise the yeast's viability if I don't
rinse the alcohol right out of the bottles before adding the spent yeast? I
imagine that it would taint the beer in there, and possibly the yeast
itself, but surely vigorous fermentation afterwards would  "flash off" the
remaining alcohol and flavours?
Thank you,
Colin Marshall.
"I can't think of anything clever to say, so I won't say anything at all".



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:18:29 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Quick and Easy Guinness-style head

Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>

>There is an easy way to get a Guinness-style head on your stouts at home. If
>you can get hold of a syringe and a thin needle you can inject air right
>into your glass of stout after pouring. I've done this using a 60cc syringe
>and 26G needle with great results.

You don't even need the needle.  I use a 10 cc oral syringe with a 
curved, narrow "spout," but any narrow orificed syringe should do.

Long time readers will remember that I introduced this some years ago 
to HBD (I think I thought it up, but a British brewer said that 
Guinness was selling their bottles with syringes for a short time 
some years ago, pre-Widget.  Maybe I subliminally remembered this). 
I also published a note in Zymurgy, and called it a 40 cent beer 
engine.  Someone else gave it the much better name of Pocket Beer 
Engine, although someone yet again protested that it should be called 
a Pocket Sparkler.

By whichever name, it works.  Not only does it make a creamy head, it 
gets rid of overcarbonation, making a smoother beer.  Just be sure to 
leave lots of head space if you're dealing with highly carbonated 
beer.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:11:11 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: carboy issues and CPBF

"steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com> writes that he is doing 
everything right with his counter pressure bottle filler, but he 
still gets foam, then writes:

>I have the keg set at serving pressure and the gas at around 8 psi. Is my
>beer hose too long?  It is 1/4 ID flexible clear tubing.

I think this may be your problem - not the hose length, long would be 
better because it would lower the pressure at the filler.  I think 
you should turn down the pressure.  I'm not sure what you mean by "I 
have the keg set at serving pressure and the gas at around 8 psi." 
The pressure of the keg and at the gas in at the filler should be the 
same.  I turn my down pretty far so I get a slow, non-turbulent flow 
into the bottle.  Maybe 3-4 psi.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:33:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: Flying Bison Brewing Company

Check out Flying Bison Brewing Company http://www.flyingbisonbrewing.com
and visit if you are in the Buffalo NY area.



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:54:36 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Yeast Starters

I guess I add my .02 on the yeast starter thread.  It's probably not going to
be much more than a me too type post.

My first few uses of liquid yeast were to directly pitch a smack pack into 5
gallons of wort.  Needless to say this resulted is very long lag times, on the
order of 10-12 hours.  The beers turned out ok, but didn't keep well.  Any
wonder why?

Then I started stepping up the starter.  One of the local shops (now out of
business) sold 12 oz bottles of canned starter wort.  I would step up with one
bottle of canned wort.  I used a "king" sized bottle and would pitch the whole
thing.  My lag times shortened to 6-8 hours and the beer got better.  

Every time I would hear of 2-3 hour lag times I would think that it was almost
unobtainium.  Then I made a couple 5 gallon batched of the same beer (stocking
up for the summer) and I racked the wort from the second batch onto the yeast
from batch one.  Wow!  Lag time was about 2 hours.  From this I learned the
importance of pitching large quantities of yeast.

I built my own stirrer.  I think I posted a couple times about it.  Details
should be in the archives.  Basically it is a 12 VDC motor with a strong magnet
attached to the motor shaft.  The speed is adjusted by using a variable DC
power supply.  My first "stir bars" were a suggestion from Dave Burley, a
former frequent poster on HBD.  They were nails that I sealed in plastic tubing
by melting the ends closed.  Later I found some "real" stir bars and started
using them.

I also constructed a fitting so that I could continuously aerate the starter. 
A small aquarium pump is used with a HEPA filter.  The filtered air is pumped
in one side and the excess air and CO2 is exhausted out the other side.  The
exhaust side is air locked.  

I started making larger starters in a 2L and then a 3L erlenmeyer flask.  Even
the 3L flask rapidly became deficient.  I would often have the yeast blow off
the airlock.  This is because of the tapered neck.  As the flask fills, the
volume in the neck rapidly decreases and it doesn't take much to blow the top. 


I switched to a 1 gallon wine jug.  I also started to use some of the anti-foam
stuff.  I found that 1-2 drops for every quart of step up resulted in almost no
foam.  I am able to get 3-3.5 quarts of starter in my 1 gallon jug.

I typically turn off the stirrer and air pump about 1-2 days before I brew and
allow the yeast to settle.  I have also used the fridge to chill the starter. 
In either case the results have been and same.  I really don't see a difference
between yeast that has been chilled and yeast that has not.  The results are
the same.

On brew day I decant the spent starter, usually when after the sparge is
complete.  I then add 12 oz to 1 quart of starter to rejuvenate the yeast.  I
resume the stir and aeration.  By the time my boil (60 minutes typical) and
chill (20-30 minutes with immersion chiller) is complete, the yeast is fully
charged and raring to go.  My lag times are now 1-2 hours.  I almost never have
anything take longer than 3 hours.  My unscientific experience is that pitching
lots of healthy, full active yeast leads to better beer.

Finally, if you are a gadget guy and/or handy with tools, there is no reason
why you can't build your own equipment for continuous aeration and stirring.  I
don't have a web site but I do have some jpg's of some of the equipment I have
built.  I will be happy to offer advice to anyone who wants details.  


=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:40:30 -0800
From: "olsen-riley" <olsen-riley at home.com>
Subject: Schmidling Maltmill

Greetings all,

I've been whole grain brewing for several years now and use a Schmidling
Maltmill to grind my grain.  I was wondering if anyone has actually
motorized one of these rigs with a motor / belt drive...I'm tired of hooking
up my electric hand drill to grind 20+ pounds of grain...TIA.

EO

Ed Olsen / Kathy Riley
Home: olsen-riley at home.com
Life: edolsen at alum.mit.edu



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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:43:39 
From: "chris eidson" <eidsonc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Gruit, herbs used in beer

I found the link posted by RJ in response to the inquiry about gruit 
fascinating.  What is the collective's experience with brewing hop-free 
beer?  What herbs were used and in what quantity?  Were they difficult to 
obtain?  Were the results worth replicating?  Thanks in advance for any 
responses.

Chris Eidson
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:09:04 -0500
From: "Bruce Millington" <bmillington2 at home.com>
Subject: Re:  chocolate flavor

Happy Thanksgiving to all!  I am a baker and pastry chef.  I have access to
Belgian chocolate liquor (pure unsweetened).  When brewing chocolate stouts
or porters, I put 4 oz. of chocolate into the boil (5 gal. batch) with 30
minutes remaining.  Make sure this chocolate is mostly shaved off of the
block before adding.

Bruce Millington




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