---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Cleaning Beer Lines ("Lou King")
  Nitrogenation ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Missing An HBD ("Phil Yates")
  Re: Fw: Gruit ("RJ")
  Re: Off Flavors ("RJ")
  Triticale (Road Frog)
  Re: Classic American Pilsner (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Cleaning Beer Lines (Jeff Renner)
  CiderShine update ("Jamie Smith")
  carboy issues and CPBF ("steve lane")
  Re. carboys & shoes ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Yeast Starters & Conditioning ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re. Chocolate ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Quick and Easy Guinness-style head (Alan Meeker)
  RE: "Guinness" type head (Jeff)
  RE: chest freezers (Brian Lundeen)
  La Binchoise Special Noel (regional to DC/MD/VA) ("Tim Fields")
  CAP corn adjuncts (Marc Sedam)
  Re. Secondary Fermentation and Conditioning (John Palmer)
  Beer used to clean up toxic metals ("Thomas Oakes")
  Kegs Vs Carboys ("Keith Menefy")
  Arrogant Bastard Ale Clone? ("John Maretti")


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:46:08 -0500
From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Beer Lines

Lyle asks:

"I have recently setup a keg system at home (mmmmmm....draught beer!)
and am 
wondering how often the lines need to be cleaned. For example, if I
leave 
beer in the lines after a drinking session for a couple of days will it
be 
off next time I pull a glass or will it be ok? If they do need to be
cleaned 
between sessions, what is the best way of doing it (I have the Ball-lock

type connectors)."

I don't bother cleaning between drinking sessions.

It takes me about two months to go through each of my 10 gal. batches.
In between batches (not in between kegs), I clean the lines by putting a
couple of gallons of very warm water into a corny keg with some one-step
cleanser/sanitizer and pumping that through.

I disconnect the keg and clean the faucet by taking it apart completely
and soaking in one step.  Don't forget to disconnect the keg or you'll
make a mess.

After rinsing the faucet and putting everything back together, I run
very warm water through the system.  Using one-step there's no need to
rinse if everything has time to dry, but as I clean the lines just
before attaching the next keg, it seems to make sense to rinse anyway.

Hope this helps.

Lou King (Lou's Brews) Ijamsville, MD [394.4, 118.4] Rennerian



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:33:11 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Nitrogenation

on the Nitrogenation thread, CT writes:
"In addition to the CO2 equipment, one only needs to get the slow-pour tap and
and the nitrogen (or  beer gas--75/25) bottle.  I'm not sure how much the
bottle will cost but a  tap can be had for $70 or so, and gas doesn't cost too
much. "

My understanding was that the nitrogen, or beer gas, also required a higher
pressure regulator than CO2? I believe the same type of regulator as O2? Is
this the case?

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:31:52 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Missing An HBD

That nasty fellow Pat Babcock has willfully excluded me from receiving HBD
#3792, leaving me only to guess what discussions went on in there.

In #3793, Brian Lundeen quotes Dave Lamotte with a suggested description of
me.

Well let me tell you this. Dave Lamotte was party to a night at the Burradoo
Hilton (along with the infamous Doc Pivo) where we drank beer all night and
sloshed around on a beer soaked carpet and the only person to remember how
we ever got home was me. I still maintain I found them later drinking from
glasses in my garage (and raving about the contents) without asking me what
it was they were drinking. It was just that afternoon (before they arrived)
that I had started the wee wee experiment. Draw your own conclusions!!

But Brian wonders about the image of me wandering around with a schooner in
one hand and the butt end of a fag in the other.

When I was just a lad, a fag was a cigarette. But apparently times have
changed. In my old life as a full time Airline pilot, I checked into a hotel
one night along with the rest of the crew and was offered a room allowing
smoking. "No problems" I said " I don't mind the odd fag of an evening". One
of the male flight attendants overheard this and eyed me off wantonly. And
to my horror, he was checked into the room next store!

Anyway, little of this is to do with brewing (other than brewing trouble)
and I fully expect that nasty Pat Babcock to refuse me further issues of the
HBD.

Bruised, Baffled and Boozed
Baron Of Burradoo



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:57:39 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Gruit

From: "Gerard Goossens" <Gerard-g at hotpop.com> wrote:

"I have a recepie for a beer that is spiced with "gruit". Please help!! What
is this. I heard that it was mainly Gagel or something like this."

Gerard,

Read on : http://hometown.aol.com/permianbry/beerherb.htm

Ciao,

RJ
43:30:3.298N x 71:39:9.911W
Lakes Region Of NH





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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:16:03 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Off Flavors

Bates, Floyd G <BatesFG at bp.com> wrote:

"I am confused about where an off flavor is coming from.  Hopefully someone
in the brewing community can provide some guidance.  My goal was to brew
something similar to Widmer's Hefeweizen without the caramel malt."

<snip>

Floyd,

I'd have to go with the Flaked Barley, which you used at a rate of 16%
grist; the balance being 42% Malted Barley & Malted Wheat, each...

I would have staid with a more traditional formula of 55% Wheat /45% Malted
Barley.

Ciao,

RJ
43:30:3.298N x 71:39:9.911W
Lakes Region - NH







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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:03:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com>
Subject: Triticale

Triticale (X Triticosecale Wittmack) is a man-made
crop developed by crossing wheat (Triticum turgidum or
Triticum aestivum) with rye (Secale cereale). 

I was "gifted" with 100 lbs. of triticale.  After hand
milling several times, I got smart and let the local
mill grind the balance up for me. It is hard like a
red wheat.

I used it in small quantities in place of wheat with
great success.  Then I decided to use it as all the
wheat in a wit.  When that wit had a funny taste, I
blamed the yeast or sanitation.  So I did it again.  

I'm now back to only using it in small amounts.  50%
of the wheat in a wit, or less.  I'm not sure how to
describe the flavor, but I did not appreciate it.

On-On
Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:20:54 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Classic American Pilsner

Erik Nelson <heimbrauer at astound.net> writes from Sauk Rapids, MN

>I am planning on sometime making a CAP, but I am having trouble deciding if
>it is better to use the flaked maize or use corn meal instead of the maize.
>I know using the corn meal and doing the american double mash is
>traditional, but using flaked maize is definitely easier.
>
>I would like some opinions on the subject from brewers who have done both.
>Any suggestions would be nice, since this will be my first CAP

Glad you are going to brew this great beer (for newcomers, a CAP is a 
Classic American Pilsner, the wonderful ancestor of all those bland 
megabeers of today).  You can make a really fine CAP with flaked 
maize.  I do it when I am short of time.  And to tell you the truth, 
I suspect I might have a hard time telling the result from one made 
with a cereal mash.

But, a cereal mash is traditional and fun, and I *think* it gives a 
complexity and depth of flavor that is missing with flakes.

The simplest way to do brew one with flakes is with a single step 
infusion mash at around 150-153F, just like a British ale.  Modern 
malts seem to do just fine this way.  If you are up to a step mash, 
mash in at 145 or so, then step it up to 158 after 30 minutes and 
rest it there for another 30 minutes.  This seems to give a bit 
crisper, more attenuated beer.

I make this 145-->158 jump with the addition of the cereal mash plus 
some heat if necessary, and then mashout at 170.

The best source of comprehensive information about brewing this and 
the history is my article in the Sept/Oct 2000 Zymurgy.  I have made 
a few minor changes in my procedure since then, but nothing much.

Most important is to have fun.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:26:01 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Beer Lines

"df ds", AKA Lyle, <lyle25 at hotmail.com> writes from an undisclosed location:

>I have recently setup a keg system at home (mmmmmm....draught beer!) and am
>wondering how often the lines need to be cleaned. For example, if I leave
>beer in the lines after a drinking session for a couple of days will it be
>off next time I pull a glass or will it be ok? If they do need to be cleaned
>between sessions, what is the best way of doing it (I have the Ball-lock
>type connectors).

If the lines, fittings and faucet are sanitized to begin with and are 
kept cool cellar temp or cold, they should be fine for some time. 
Weeks, anyway.  I find that the first place to grow things is in the 
picnic faucet.  Be sure to take it apart every once in a while and 
clean and sanitize it.  I find that boiling works best for the hoses 
and fittings, but not the plastic faucet.  I suspect it would melt.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:59:16 -0400
From: "Jamie Smith" <jxsmith at vac-acc.gc.ca>
Subject: CiderShine update

Thanks ever so much for all the replies I got on and off list on my 
porch-crawler DRY cider!

After sifting through all the info I decided the best course of action for a 
lazy cheapskate like me would be to buy a bottle of "Wine Conditioner"
added it to my keg.  Stirred it a bit and it is quite yummy now.

I would recommend this approach to anyone else who might be suffering
from this sort of thing in their cider experiments.

It is very tasty and just sweet enough that the high alcohol is masked.  I'm 
thinking of making some labels calling it Dickens.  Maybe a slogan on the label
like "It's good to get your Dickens Cider!"

Jamie on PEI



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:06:35 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: carboy issues and CPBF

I am glad that some fellow brewers read the antics of my broken carboy and 
have looked at the methods by which they store their brew.  I thought I 
would let the brewers know that I rec'd a surprising number of e mails from 
others that have done the exact same thing.  One bloke  had injuries that 
required surgery, and two other had to get stitches.  4 others just had 
mental distress and trauma that required months of psycho therapy to recover 
from being a yeast abuser.  I believe that is a 12 step prgram but I'm not 
sure.
Any way, I propose that we start an elite clique of injured brewers with 
varying catagories that would determine status in the club.  For instance, a 
1st degree burn would have a much lower status than a back injury requiring 
surgery from lifting a carboy.  Stitches is good, depending upon the count, 
but cut tendons or ligaments would rank right up there with the back 
surgery.  Any feedback on a scoring system would be helpful.

The question I have is about CPBF.  I just got the 3 valve unit and am 
really fighting with this thing.  I have a 4 foot beer in hose and weem to 
get a ton of foam.  The tool is cold, the beer is cold and the bottles are 
cold.  I pressurize the bottles and relieve the pressure a few time to flush 
/ purge the bottle, pressurize to balance level, shut off gas and open beer 
line.  Hit the relief valve to allow the flow to start and get loads of 
foam.  WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING WRONG?

I have the keg set at serving pressure and the gas at around 8 psi. Is my 
beer hose too long?  It is 1/4 ID flexible clear tubing.







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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:18:23 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Re. carboys & shoes


Mike wrote:
> I have been using glass carboys for 6+ years.  Haven't
> busted one yet (knock on wood).  But after seeing Steve's
> post, I think I will make sure I am wearing shoes
> whenever I'm moving them around...

I started wearing shoes after spilling a gallon of boiling
water on the floor.  It seems socks absorb both water and
heat, and dissipate neither well.  Feet didn't blister, but
they were tender for a few days.  Here's to the learning
curve.

I've seen two glass carboys crumble before my eyes.  This
was before I discovered the orange handles, but I don't know
if that would have mattered.  I now use the plastic carboys
that the bottled water people use.  I've tried both wine
and beer in them and can't detect any off flavors.  I've
even tried to start a 'plastic vs. carboy' thread once or
twice, but no takers.  Those who use glass seem inordanantly
fond of the stuff.

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT
Having a wonder wine.  Wish you were beer.






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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:35:09 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters & Conditioning

Demonick wrote of Yeast Starters:

>On brew day while
>wort is filling the carboy, the starter is removed from the fridge,
>decanted, and wort diverted from the carboy into the flask, say about 500
>ml.  The yeast is resuspended in the fresh wort by swirling and set aside
>to "wake up".  It takes me at least 1, and more generally 2 hours to finish
>the transfer, aerate, and cleanup.  By the time I am ready to pitch, the
>starter has a nice layer of foam and is obviously active.  This is pitched.

>It is a lot of yeast, wide-awake and actively fermenting.  After pitching
>it doesn't take much time to burp the airlock.  In effect, I am cheating.

Cheating?!?  I'd say you're doing it the best way!  You're pitching a high
cell concentration in an active state.  Plus, the temp of the starter that
is being pitched is most probably close to the temp of the wort at pitching
time.  No wonder you have such a short lag.  What I was talking about is
decanting the beer from the chilled starter and pitching the slurry
immediately into the wort.  I have found this to detrimental to the lag
time.  I'm too lazy to do this.  Plus it might require a skill I seem to
have lost ever since since the "little prince" was born - planning ;-)

Rolf Karlsson wrote of Secondary fermentation/Conditioning:

>One thing that I'm still not quite clear on is
>how long secondary fermentation should last. I've seen different
>advice 

There is no single answer here.  It depends upon the style of beer you make,
what your expectations are of the flavor profile and your patience.

Sitting on trub and dead yeast cells, in general, is not a good idea.  It's
food for contaminants which are, hopefully, at low levels.  Unless you are a
lambic.  Then you want the other "bugs" to feast on your dead yeast cells.

Aging is good in most cases.  It allows the beer's flavor profile to
develop.  This is especially when there is complex flavor combination such
as multiple hops, malt/hop and multiple malts.  Even beers with fruits may
need to age.  I made Cherry ale and brown ale which did not meet my
expectations after the obligatory 2 weeks in the bottle.  At 3 & 5 months,
respectively, they were phenominal.  I consider aging to take place in the
final package - after carbonation.

Most ales don't really *NEED* a secondary unless you want to clarify them.
I only do this only to lightly colored ales  for 1 week followed by a 2-3
day cold-conditioning in an attempt to drop chill haze before
bottling/kegging.  Lagers, by definition, should recieve an extended storage
in a secondary container.  While lagering is a type of aging, I prefer to
lager uncarbonated with a fermentation lock.  Some lager under low pressure.

In short, read more.  But read more on the individual styles.  Then apply
what you've read and experiment a little.  It takes time to find the perfect
way, but it is well worth it when you do.  I'm no expert, but that is
probably the best advice you'll get.

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush





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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:35:51 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Re. Chocolate


Joseph wrote:
> Chocolate stout. I tried using an excellent bakers
> chocolate in the secondary but I got an infection
> that turned the stout a little bit sour. If I were
> to try again I'd add the chocolate at the very end
> of the boil to kill the the bad bugs.

I have a friend who fills vending machines who says that
chocolate has the shortest shelf life of any candy.
Aparently if they get it hot enough to pasteurize it,
it won't harden up again.  So there is no way to get all
the bug eggs (really!) and nasties out of it.  If they
had just brought the stuff to market, the FDA would
be having kittens.

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT  USA
Having a wonderful wine.  Wish you were beer.






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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:47:36 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Quick and Easy Guinness-style head

There is an easy way to get a Guinness-style head on your stouts at home. If
you can get hold of a syringe and a thin needle you can inject air right
into your glass of stout after pouring. I've done this using a 60cc syringe
and 26G needle with great results. Since air is something like 78% nitrogen
gas, this produces a similar effect to what the pubs are doing - you even
get that cool "cascading waterfall" effect with the bubbles! The only
drawback is that if you have a fair amount of carbonation in your stout you
could end up inducing a lot of CO2 release leading to overfoaming. If this
is the case then you may want to release much of the dissolved CO2 before
trying the injection trick.

 -Alan Meeker





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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:57:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff <duckinchicago at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: "Guinness" type head

>>>>>>>That gorgeous, creamy head is made by:
1) carbonating with 75% nitrogen & 25% CO2;
2) dispensing from the keg at 25psi (an outrageously
high pressure); 
and 3)
using a special tap that not only is designed to stand
up to that kind 
of
pressure but pushes the beer through a series of
convolutions on its 
trip.....etc>>>>>

I recently purchased a "Creamer" type faucet from St.
Pats (also available elsewhere) and found that the
head from it is a reasonable facsimile of the
legendary Guinness head.  I won't claim its a dead
ringer for it, but considering the trouble and expense
of getting a whole Nitro setup, I'll take it. FWIW....

Jeff




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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:03:45 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: chest freezers

Robert Marshall writes:

> The other day I was blowing some time at 
> Costco, and noticed a smallish chest 
> freezer and "the wheels started turning!!" 
> Has anyone on the digest used one of 
> these for controling fermentation/lagering 
> temps?

Yes, I have two freezers used solely for fermentations (isn't that a sad
commentary on my addiction to this hobby, not to mention the two fridges,
one for bottles, one for kegs). You will need a controller, of course, such
as a Johnson or Ranco unit. The advantage of the Ranco unit is it can
control cooling or heating, in case you have a freezer out in the garage
where the outside temps might get lower than what you want. 
> 
> The biggest disadantage I can see would 
> be that you have to bend over to put the 
> carboy/keg in, or get it out. That could be 
> bad on your back if you bent the wrong 
> way. A minor concern I had was whether 
> the floor could support the weight of the 
> larger volumes (such as a keg!). The 
> advantage is that fact that this is a really 
> small cube, as opposed to a full-sized 
> fridge!

I have had no trouble standing in any freezer I've come across. Kegs and
carboys are no problem. 

If you have a bad back, you could have a problem. One alternative is to
simply split your batch up into smaller carboys, such as a 3 gallon size. I
don't have a problem reaching down and under to lift that kind of weight
from the bottom but YMMV. For 5 gallon carboys, I place them inside a wine
juice bucket and lift them out by the bucket handle. Unlike Pete Calinski, I
have complete faith in them ;-) Having wanted to remove a bucket handle once
for some reason, and having the bucket mock me at every tug, I feel pretty
safe lifting these juice buckets by the handle. Soda kegs with handles at
the top should not be a big problem. The thing you want to avoid is having
to bend over and try to lift a heavy weight up and out, as with an
unbucketed carboy. Such a course is fraught with peril (God I love that
phrase).

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:37:31 -0500
From: "Tim Fields" <tfields at cox.rr.com>
Subject: La Binchoise Special Noel (regional to DC/MD/VA)

My first posting in years :-)

Anyone know where I can purchase La Binchoise Special Noel in the DC/MD/VA
area?  I haven't seen it in several years....


~Tim Fields .. tfields at cox.rr.com



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:00:02 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: CAP corn adjuncts

Eric,

I've used both polenta (corn grits) and flaked maize in my
CAPs.  Assuming both are fresh (often a problem with the
flakes) then the difference is negligible.  But assuming
flaked maize doesn't fly off the shelves of your local HB
shop, using corn grits is usually the fresher option.

Cheers!
- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:38:08 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re. Secondary Fermentation and Conditioning

Rolf asks for someone to explain about the apparent contradictions of 
aging, getting the beer of the trub, and conditioning.

Well, first let me say that this is a debated topic, so that while I am 
speaking from a somewhat learned viewpoint, it is also safe to say that the 
following is just one man's opinion, even though the opinion is shared to 
varying degrees by the literature.

I think a good place to start is to state that any perceived emphasis on 
prolonging the fermentation through extended time in the primary, racking 
to a secondary, and/or bottle conditioning, is in great part to dispel the 
old paradigm of "let it ferment for 2 days and then bottle and drink it." 
Most people start from a canned kit of extract, which would lead you to 
believe that you will be enjoying brewery-quality beer in one week or 
less.  As most people on their second batch know, this is rarely the case.

So, my first point is that good beer takes some amount of time to reach 
peak flavor. The amount of time depends on the fermentation factors: 
ingredients, yeast strain and vitality, and environmental conditions. How 
do you gage that amount of time? Well, start with the yeast strain - lager 
or ale. Lager strains naturally take longer due to temperature factors. 
Next, look at the style of beer - is it complex, dark, high gravity? If so, 
it may take longer to condition to peak flavor. And look at your 
environment - biological reactions occur faster at higher temperatures. 
High fermentation temperatures can also produce off-flavors that may take 
months to go away, if ever.
With these ideas in mind, I will generalize and say that most pale ales 
will be completely done fermenting within two weeks, and that they will 
reach peak flavor within 1 month give or take a week. Higher gravity ales 
may require an additional week or two. Any flaws in the beer such as 
acetydehyde, diacetyl, or astringency may require an additional week or two 
for the yeast to correct. Well, astringency is not corrected by the yeast, 
but rather by flocculation and settling of excess proteins and tannins. But 
my second point is that conditioning is largely a function of the yeast, 
whether it be by metabolizing secondary fermentation products or adsorption 
of proteins and polyphenols and subsequently settling to the bottom.

Now, while these conditioning reactions are occurring, there is also the 
possibility of undesirable reactions occuring. For instance, a common 
problem is the oxidation of fatty acids in the trub, causing soapy flavors. 
For this reason, depending all of the fermentation factors, it can be a 
good idea to get the beer off the trub before consigning the beer to 
extended aging. This is why many brewers rack to a secondary fermenter. 
Other brewers rightly insist that there is no need and that if you brewed a 
quality beer, then there will be no undesired reactions occuring during 
even a two month period in the primary fermenter. Personally, I rack.

  Well, I hope this helps. More of my philosophy and reasons are documented 
in Chapter 8 - Fermentation in my online book. As I stated at the 
beginning, by emphasizing a need to allow time for fermentation and 
conditioning to complete, we are trying to swing the pendulum the other way 
and recommned a more conservative approach, one that will have a better 
chance of success for the beginning brewer until they develop a better 
intuition for the process.


John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:48:19 -0500
From: "Thomas Oakes" <tomoakes at usa.net>
Subject: Beer used to clean up toxic metals

Popular Science online has a report including the following paragraph:

"Key players in this strategy [to turn zinc and lead laden land into healthy
wetlands] are sulfate-reducing bacteria, or SRB, which trap toxic metals.
Beer, it turns out, is a perfect fuel for the SRB, which require simple
organic acids for energy. Ordinarily, the bacteria peter out after about a
month, but with the carbohydrates plentiful in beer, their lives can be
extended several months."

Full article is here: http://www.popsci.com/science/01/10/20/chemistry/

With a bit of creative thinking this means the government might eventually
give homebrewers contracts to brew for them!

Also... might there be a use for beer-fed bacteria to remove undesirable
things in beer in general - and eventually home brew?  If I recall correctly
bacteria are very large in comparision to other things in beer (like yeast
and protein haze) so you could use the bacteria to 'eat' undesirable things
(that contribute to off flavors or possibly remove excess oxygen [I'm just
theorizing here...]) then filter them out relatively easily due to their
large size.  As someone who's never filtered I might be completely off...
but it's an interesting thought.

==Tom==

Tom Oakes
Berlin, Connecticut, USA
[568.6, 90.9] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:12:09 +1300
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Kegs Vs Carboys

Hi

Dave Galloway comments

>I tried switching to kegs for all of my fermenting needs. The only
problem
>was that the beer took forever to clear up in the primary. So back to
the
>dreaded, potentially eviscerating carboys I went.

Why is there a difference between fermenting in a keg and a glass
carboy?

This question has me curious because I have just changed to fermenting
in kegs. I recently brewed a lager with a primary fermentation of 2
days and then transferred to a 75 litre stainless steel keg and the
remainder to a 22 litre glass carboy. The keg received the favoured
treatment, fermented at a cooler temperature (6 -7C) and for a month
longer compared to 10C for the carboy with a 15 day ferment.
At bottling time the carboy brew was clear, the keg was very hazy,
although the beer has cleared after a couple of months in the bottle.

There is even a flavour difference between the 2 brews, and this is
the bit that really has me curious. The carboy brew just seems to be a
far more rounded beer with everything nicely balanced, while the keg
is just another lager.

Why the difference???????

Cheers
Keith
NZ







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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:53:42 -07:00
From: "John Maretti" <jmaretti at saber.net>
Subject: Arrogant Bastard Ale Clone?

Greetings,
   I just tried a bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale by Stone Brewery.  I LOVE IT!
 It is the best Brown Ale that I have ever tried and I want to make some.  I
have searched the internet but have been unable to find a clone recipe.  Can
anybody help me?  Please, I would love to make an all-grain batch.   Please
reply directly to: jmaretti at saber.net
            Thanks,
                    John


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