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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Need help finding recipe in old Zymurgy special issue (Robert Marshall)
  Importing US made homebrew equipment (Ant Hayes)
  Re: kegging pressures question (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Turkey Fryers . . (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Cult Classic Beers ("RJ")
  scales ("Patrick Finerty Jr.")
  What wonders beer provides... (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
  Re: filters & aerating ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  While we're talking abotu Thomas Hardy Ale (Danny Breidenbach)
  turkey fryer and propane exhaust (Rama Roberts)
  Lambic in Chicago ("Sebastian Padilla")
  Question re: Triticale Flakes (leavitdg)
  Local Club Contests ("Tom Byrnes")
  Re: Priming with corn sugar or malt extract??? (Calvin Perilloux)


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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:49:40 -0800
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Need help finding recipe in old Zymurgy special issue

Hi all,

Today I was at the Black Diamond 
Brewing, in Walnut Creek, Calif. Was
talking to a guy for a bit, and they were 
trying to find a copy of a old recipe that 
explained how to homebrew their 
fantastic Dark Wheat (currently on tap).

The head brewer mentioned it could be 
found in the Winner's Circle book, and 
also in the Zymurgy Yeast Special Issue 
(not the 1999, but the earlier one).

I mentioned that I had the Winner's Circle 
book, and would get the recipe for them. 
Alas, but when I checked it at home, the 
recipe does not appear to be in there. :-(

Is there somone on the list that could be 
so kind as to look at their old special 
issue and email it to me this weekend?

Thanks again!

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:49:46 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Importing US made homebrew equipment

Looking for sympathy, Pat Casey in Australia wrote

>And if you want to order from the US, the exchange rate, two
>of ours for one of yours, is enough to drive you to drink. Would it be
>askew to claim this as another reason to brew?

Luxury I say, luxury. The rand has now dropped to below 10 US cents. Not
that long ago (okay 20 years ago), a rand could buy a dollar and have
some change over.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg; South Africa


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:37:20 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: kegging pressures question

Steven St.Laurent <steven at 403forbidden.net> wrote:

>I've noticed that apparent pressure (as measured by the gauge on the
>regulator) drops as temperature drops. I've also noticed that it drops
>overtime, usually within the first few days of reaching its cold storage
>temperature soon after kegging.

and assumes

>Pressure drops as temperature drops due to expansion and contraction of
>the gas at various temperatures.

This is certainly the case if the gas is turned off, but I assume you 
have the gas turned on and set to a certain pressure.  In this case, 
it sounds like your regulator or gauge is not temperature compensated.

You should have something like 1100 psi in the tank (this WILL vary 
with temperature, and if you have a high pressure gauge, it will 
reflect this), but the temperature downstream of the regulator, as 
measured by the low pressure gauge, should stay at the set point.

>As CO2 is absorbed into solution into the beer the "pressure" will drop
>until the beer can absorb no more at which point pressure will remain
>constant.

I don't think so.  Again, if you set the pressure to, say, 15 psi, it 
ought to stay there irrespective of how much CO2 is being absorbed or 
not.  While the system isn't a steady state until saturation is 
reached, the gas absorption rate is so slow as to make it a virtual 
steady state as far as pressure goes.

It sounds to me like your gauge or regulator are being affected by 
the cold temperature.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:43:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Turkey Fryers . .

Earl (the traditionalist) Gasner  describes

>traditional Pilgrim costume:
>Black clothes, tall black hat, big white collar and silver buckle shoes.

Or as someone recently wrote in a comic strip, like color blind leprechauns.

//

By the way, someone yesterday mentioned the Bob and Tom Show website 
http://Bobandtom.com.  It is hilarious.  I went poking around and, 
among others laughs, found this great mpeg:

http://Bobandtom.com/av/flamer1.mpeg

I don't think this "jet burner" could be harnessed for turkey frying  purposes.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:04:33 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Cult Classic Beers

"Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net> wrote:

<snip>
"... so I'm asking: what are your favorite craft and imported beers?
Brainstorm a list of five and e-mail it to me, will you?  (ray at aob.org)  The
pay off will be in seeing an article (and clone recipe) based on your
suggestion in some future issue of Zymurgy."

Ray,

I'd have to say my top 5 list would be:
Amstel Bier - Pilsner (Holland).... (NOT Amstel Light)
Negro Modello - Vienna Lager  (Mexico)
Optimator - Double Bock (Germany)
Ipswitch Porter (USA)
Affligem Tripel (Belgium)

Ciao,

RJ
43:30:3.298N x 71:39:9.911W
Lakes Region of NH




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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:11:58 -0500
From: "Patrick Finerty Jr." <pjf at finerty.net>
Subject: scales

Howdy folks,

I'm curious what people use to weigh the grain for brewing. I have
been using a bathroom scale but it's really not that accurate. There
seem to be a couple of options on ebay for heavier-duty postal scales
that are brand new and will measure either 13# or 40# max. These are
priced around $40 to $80 (USD) depending on the max weight they can
take.

I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions you might have.

Slainte,

 -patrick
- -- 
Patrick J. Finerty, Jr., Ph.D.
Forman-Kay Laboratory
Hospital for Sick Children
Toronto, ON, Canada
http://finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:20:02 -0500
From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
Subject: What wonders beer provides...

Here is still another benefit that brewing provides mankind (as if another
were needed):

http://acs.yellowbrix.com/pages/acs/Story.nsp?story_id=25238157&ID=acs

>From the Chemistry.org article...

"While mint is cool, it also has a strong taste and smell, which is not
always 
appropriate for a novelty product. Minty-tasting "superchilly" ice cream is
one, and 
imagine the pong after you have used a musky but stimulating shower gel, if
it smells of 
mint, too.

Now, a German team reckon they have discovered a mint substitute with all
the bite but 
none of the scent in the unlikely chemical brew of dark malt.

Dark malt is a melting pot of chemicals normally used to brew beer and
produce whisky. 
But chemists figured that some of its constituents might have other
interesting 
properties. Their instincts have been proved right: not only is the mint
substitute 
from dark malt much stronger, it keeps its cool twice as long as mint." 

Better living through brewing chemistry!

Jim Steinbrunner
Midland, MI
[93.9, 348.8] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:14:58 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Re: filters & aerating

Brian Lundeen wrote of filters:

>Glen Pannicke (and a few others) talk about filtering their air being
pumped
>through their wort. Now maybe, living in Central Canada (geographically
>speaking), I'm blessed with Really Clean Air(tm)...

Comparatively speaking (East coast US)?  I think we can take this one as
FACT!

> What is it about an air pump that makes people think
>that they have to include an in-line filter? I sanitize my tubing and air
>stone, certainly, but beyond that, I don't feel the need to provide sterile
>air. 

I wouldn't doubt that you're probably getting some decent filtration through
the aquarium pump rough filter.  It should have one.  Whatever does get
through is probably such a small innoculation that the yeast outcompetes it
almost immediately.  I bought an 02 setup which came with a filter.  If it
didn't, I probably wouldn't even use one for O2.  Hell, I only use the O2
setup on high grav brews as it is.  For standard brews I mostly drizzle the
wort in & then shake the fermenter (don't try this with a bucket fermenter
;-).  Pumps and hoses and filters... Oh my!  PITA!  Brew day is long enough!

I mostly use the filter on the little aquarium pump and stone used for my
starters since this is a critical stage for sanitation.  Since the brewery
lab is in the room adjoining the workshop (which produces much dust), I feel
the need for some form of air filtration.  If I didn't have the filter for
this, I would probably use a long tube of sterile cotton wadding as a rough
filter.  Make the path through the cotton filter long so that dust & spores
have a good chance of getting caught up in the filter and migration though
the cotton takes a long time, if ever.  Since you're pushing more volume
through the solution when using a pump, you are potentially exposing it to
more contaminants than if you only used the air trapped in the headpace and
shook the container.  Same goes for the venturi tube.  Basically you are
recirculating the same air through the tube & beer, rather than pushing more
new air through the beer.

I think the benefits of sterile or tight filtered air vs. rough filtered air
are minimal (for beers with properly sized starters).  That is, of course,
unless you have an environmental problem.  For that I would suggest other
measures to correct the source, not the problem.  To date I have had only 3
brews which I would assume to be infected and undrinkable.  That's less than
5% of total production.  Two of these I believe were caused by a fermenter
sanitation screwup in which one affected the next.  The other I believe to
be cross-contamination with a lambic fermentation somehow - possibly
airborne, but I doubt it.

Pat Casey looks to be flogged further regarding H2O2:

>H2O2 as a potential source of O2. Now the indomitable Mr Sanders has
>suggested the possibility of adding manganese oxide as a catalyst to
>hasten the release of O2. Very interesting, any comments?

Don't bother.  You'll spend more money on the chemicals than you would on an
O2 setup (even with the exchange rate) to achieve the same amount of O2
injection in the long run.  My 2 cents?  Stick with the pump and use a dry,
sterile cotton filter if you feel the need to go beyond shaking.  I know it
feels like being flogged, but actually it is more like being helped by many.


Go ahead, bubble & shake away!

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush





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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:23:22 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: While we're talking abotu Thomas Hardy Ale

I've got a bottle of Thomas Hardy Ale that was bottled in 1995 or 97 ...
I'd have to go dig up the bottle to find out which.  Seems I remember it
being in vogue back then to cellar the stuff for a while.  I keep
forgetting about it.

I'm curious as to whether it makes any sense to keep letting it get old
or if I might as well drink it.  Thoughts?

I also have a pretty old bottle of Old Knucklehead Barleywine from
Bridgeport Brewing.  Same question, when does it become silly to keep
aging it?

- --Danny in West Lafayette, IN



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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:53:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: turkey fryer and propane exhaust

Orchard Supply in California is selling a 42 quart pot and burner for $99 now.
It looks like its stainless steel in the ad, but I have my doubts.

I checked the HBD archives, and it seems people are happy with these fryer 
burners, but weren't so happy about the fact that the pots are usually 
aluminum. Besides cleaning possibly being more difficult than SS, are there any 
other downsides? I thought the health concerns with aluminum were inconclusive.

Also, is anyone using propane burners indoors, say in a garage- or are they 
always outdoors? I would like to hear thoughts on fire risk and ventilation 
with a hood or fan of some sort.



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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:05:46 +0000
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Lambic in Chicago

Hello there all,

I was hoping to get some help from you all on tracking down some authentic 
Lambic in the Chicago area.  I am going to be spending my holidays there and 
was hoping that some of you might know of a Liquor store in the downtown 
Chicago area that carries such a thing.  My supply is running quite low, and 
unless one likes the sweet stuff, Tucson is a Lambic wasteland.  I would 
really appreciate any help in this, as I am getting desperate.

Also any suggestions for must see places in the Chicago beer scene would 
also be much appreciated.

Thanks for the help,
Sebastian Padilla
Where I can finally brew an ale
without temperature control in
Tucson, AZ
[1635.2, 253.7] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:15:00 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Question re: Triticale Flakes

I just purchased some "organic triticale flakes" and want to experiment a
bit with them.  They look like flaked barley/ flaked wheat in appearance.

I am assuming that, as a cross between rye and wheat, they must have some
of the head retention qualities of wheat...and some of the "bite" that 
rye seems to have.

I am furthermore assuming that a pound or two is about the max to add to 
a grain bill...lower for lighter brews, and more for brown ales or
stouts....does that make sense ?

 ..Darrell


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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:24:22 -0500
From: "Tom Byrnes" <kmstfb2 at exis.net>
Subject: Local Club Contests

 
 I am the competition coordinator for my local beer club. I wanted some feedback
from other clubs as to how you run your contests.
Do you restrict your members to 1 entry or allow multiple 
entries in the same category. If you allow multiple entries 
do you restrict the number of times a member can win in the
same contest? If you do a Brewer of the Year award how do you decide the winner
and what doyou give for a prize? 

Thanks Tom



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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:34:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Priming with corn sugar or malt extract???

Corn sugar or malt extract?

I'd have to agree with Jeff.  The difference in flavour would be
practically undetectable, and I myself have noticed the rings on 
on the bottle necks when using extract for priming.  So did the
judges, on occasion :-(  My first suspicion was infection, but
there was nothing in the flavour or aroma to indicate that, and
after half a hundred batches using conr sugar sometimes and extract
other times, it was pretty clear that there was a near-perfect
correlation between extract and rings, as far as I could tell.

I suspect that the proteins which would normally be coagulated
by the boil and drop out then or during fermentation time are still
"floating around" in the relatively unprocessed extract.  That's my
conjecture, anyway.  If I wanted to really verify that, carbonating
with a fresh kraeusen from a just-started batch would be way to see,
maybe over the course of lots of batches primes by different methods.
(And using kraeusening would keep the Reinheitsgebot perfectionists
happy, too, but it's a bit of a pain to do for every batch.)

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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