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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

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        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

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Contents:
  Re Lager Yeast + Mead (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Peppermint Mead (Ant Hayes)
  Destin, FL ("Timmy R")
  Changes coming to the HBD... (Pat Babcock)
  Subject: bottle testing ("Charlie Walker")
  re: peppermint mead ("Paul Kensler")
  Bottle Testing (nlkanous)
  Beginner kits ("Andrew Moore")
  RE: buck ("Joseph Marsh")
  A must try this holiday season.... ("Berggren, Stefan")
  Copper soup ("Alexandre Carminati")
  Pils Nomenclature ("Michael A Nemier")
  Weihenstephaner Clone? (Nathan Dooley)
  RE: Which beginner kit? ("Thrash Librarian")
  "Buck" (jmcdonald)
  pump recalculation and grants ("Spinelli, Mike")
  Teflon washer alternative... (William & Kazuko Macher)
  ProMash Water Recipe ("Vernon, Mark")
  RE: Removal of Rubber 'Feet' from Corny Kegs (John Wilkinson)
  Re: bottle testing (Brett Hetherington)
  Mead questions (Crossno Clan)


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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:17:56 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM>
Subject: Re Lager Yeast + Mead

Darrell,

G'day from another wonderful Summers Day in Sydney.

With much sadness I have just finished my last mead made with Lager Yeast (I 
took out the State Comp with one and if I had not drunk it all the Nationals 
maybe)

I had until 12 months ago  used Champagne yeast and was always unhappy with the 
Dry-as-a-bone finish. Whilst i love Champagne, I was looking for a liquer type 
finish. After a batch of both Steam Beer and German Lager (White Labs) i added 
the next 2 meads ontop of the racks yeast. Both were far less attenuated, more 
complex and sweet.

So from there on in i have only used lager yeast + nutrients to ferment.
Funnily enough the last batch was bottled still but after 3 months was 
slightly sparkling and nowhere as dry as my previous sparklings.

Now not to take away from Pat and this digest - he knows I love him to death 
like many Australians do - but there is the Mead Lovers Digest which has some 
really great stuff on there about Mead. I'll send to you.

Good on you for making mead, those beer only snobs dont know what they are 
missing out on!

Scotty







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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:27:19 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Peppermint Mead

David Craft wrote:

>Has anyone ever tried using peppermint sticks or peppermint extract in
Mead?
>Sounds festive, doesn't it?  My wife said sounded sick!

I made a mint flavoured mead once. Unfortunately, toothpaste
manufacturers have cornered the market for sweet minty flavours. My
friends dubbed my brew "Mounthwash Methaglyn"

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:00:06 -0500
From: "Timmy R" <par8head at earthlink.net>
Subject: Destin, FL

Esther King writes:

>We will be in the Panama City/Destin area of the FL panhandle from 12/26
>to 1/1and are interested in checking out all of the brewpubs within a
>reasonable area,



Been there a few times.  Make sure you do not miss McGuire's Irish
Pub.....and kiss the moose for good luck.


Cheers . .

Timmy
par8head at earthlink.net
AIM: par8head5




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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:22:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Changes coming to the HBD...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

There are ome upgrades/changes coming to the HBD - some by
choice, some by happenstance. 

First, our ISP was swept up in the great shrinkage of the
internet, and has gone bankrupt. Another ISP has purchased our
(and others') contract and will (and has been) maintain
connectivity. So far, so good. THey are trying to preserve the
original IPS, but there may be connectivity issues during the
transition. And, since our contract with the prior ISP had
expired, there'll likely be a renegotiate on the monthly fee.

Second, I will be working on the mail transport to upgrade
it/update it in order to (finally) incorporate filtering for
email viruses et al. THere may be some stutters and hiccups as
I work this out, so bear with me!

Finally, we will also be swapping boxes and configurations in
order to update the operating system and technology behind the
Digest. 

Barring any schedule snafus, the last two portions will complete
over the holidays. I have no control over the ISP thing, and
will report back on that once we are all set.

For more info, or if the Digest seems to disappear, please visit
the HBD website at http://hbd.org. I'll do my best to keep the
Site News up to date.


- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:39:26 -0600
From: "Charlie Walker" <charlybill at prodigy.net>
Subject: Subject: bottle testing

>Subject: bottle testing
I've got a few 16oz swing lids that have over time consistently failed to
carbonate (bottle condition) even after replacing gaskets. Can anyone
recommend a easy method of testing these? I was thinking of taking a spare
corny keg, put a gallon or so of water in it, pressurize it then counter
pressure fill the bottles. Problem is the only was to detect a moderate
leak is soap and water. Unless someone can think of something a bit
better?<

    Add some food coloring to the water, well carbonated, counter pressure
fill the bottles as you describe then submerge the bottles in clear water
and watch for bubbles, colored water leaking from the bottles. If the water
is well chilled when  you fill the bottles and warms as you do your check,
it should show leaks if the pressure inside the bottle is greater than
outside.
hope this helps,
Charlie Walker
Lancaster, Texas



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:16:09 -0500
From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler at home.com>
Subject: re: peppermint mead

David,
I can't offer much but I can relate my single experience with a mint mead...
it was at a competition, and everyone who tasted it agreed that it was foul
and unwholesome.  The mead was a dark emerald green color and tasted like
you were drinking Scope.  No doubt, the meadmaker used some sort of syrup or
artificial flavoring - perhaps even some creme de menthe schnapps or other
liqueur.  There were some of us that strongly felt that he may have simply
dumped a tablespoon of honey into 12 oz. of Robitussin and bottled it, but
that is neither here nor there...  The one positive thing we could say about
it, was that (assuming you could choke it down) you could get drunk on it
and still have amazingly fresh breath.

I guess the point of this is, be careful with the mint!  I'd say you'd have
a better chance by using a small amount of real mint - perhaps a split batch
of half gallon fermenters, each using a different amount of mint to see how
it turns out without tainting a whole 5 gallon batch?


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:19:50 -0500
From: nlkanous at netscape.net
Subject: Bottle Testing

In my experience, StarSan will foam to beat the band.
Maybe just a touch of that around the seal?
nathan in madison, wi
- -- 






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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:01:32 -0500
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beginner kits

Tray wrote:

"Making the Christmas list and of course you know what's at the top!

What do you recommend for a good beginners kit?  Northern brewer seems to
have a good kit. I was thinking of getting one with a glass carboy as the
secondary fermenter? Suggestions? Recommendations? Hints?"

Andrew replies:

As a beginner, I have yet to progress very far beyond the "beginner kit," 
and cannot comment with much authority on comparisons between various kits. 
However, I can make a few general comments based on my experience.

1. I did a lot of reading prior to purchase, including Lutzen & Stevens 
"Brew Ware" to get ideas on what was important. My first conclusion was that 
all of the kits I saw had adequate equipment for brewing and the variations 
between kits were more or less minor. My final decision for purchase was 
based on a "buy local" philosophy; my local brew shop (Weekend Brewer, 
Chester, VA, no affiliation, etc.) had a kit that was competitively priced 
and had most, if not all, of the items I had concluded essential.

2. As for the glass vs. plastic secondary, I would suggest that for a 
beginner, a plastic secondary is adequate. My kit came with a 6.5 gal. 
primary bucket and a 5.0 gal secondary/bottling bucket, both of which are 
equipped with spigots. (This eliminates any need for siphoning). My brewing 
sequence is: 6.5 gal for primary, rack to 5.0 gal for secondary, rack back 
to 6.5 gal for bottling. Works for me. I have heard enough about the dangers 
and inconveniences of glass carboys to delay using them and I have been 
perfectly happy with the results of plastic. (Bear in mind that none of my 
secondary fermentations have been longer that two weeks; longer periods may 
exceed the limits of plastic's performance).

3. I did upgrade a couple of items from the standard kit: I swapped the hand 
capper for a bench capper and I added a bottle tree. I think that the 
convenience of the bench-top capper justifies the extra cost and, in 
retrospect, I might go a little further and but a self-adjusting model, if I 
had to do it over again. The bottle tree is VERY convenient for handling 
bottles and well worth the cost, in my opinion. Also, the basic kit did not 
have a bottle brush, which is necessary if you are recycling bottles that 
were not rinsed thoroughly.

You will also need a kettle, which you may have already. I was able to buy a 
20 qt. stainless steel kettle at a chain store called Home Style for $8. 
That's pretty cheap for a pretty big pot.

Since then, the only significant piece of equipment I have added, other than 
an outdoor burner, is a immersion chiller, which I made myself and find 
extremely useful.

I hope this helps. Best wishes.

Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:09:04 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: buck

This sounds a lot like bildge wine to me. Way back when I was on submarines 
,trees were green the sky was blue and dinosaurs roamed the earth, an "A 
ganger" told me how they made it with a can of grape juice and a pinch of 
bread yeast.


Missed the orginal post.
Joe



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:12:40 -0600
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject: A must try this holiday season....

A just wanted to wish seasons greetings to the post and its readers....

Also to let everyone know that if you can find a bottle of Fullers 1999
Vintage Ale, do so.. Run don't walk as this is one holiday barley wine to be
remembered.  I am still smiling over this one, and would recommend it to the
masses......


Stefan  
stefan_berggren at trekbike.com
 
Of doctors and medicines we have in plenty more than enough...what you may,
for the Love of God, send is some large quantity of beer. -- 
Dispatch from the Colony, New South Wales, 1854 



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:02:27 +0800
From: "Alexandre Carminati" <carminat at email.com>
Subject: Copper soup

I've seen my cooler (cooper coil), being 
be "cleaned" every time I soak it my boiling 
wort (last 3 minutes). I use to make extract 
beers and probably this is a normal reaction 
caused by the wort acidity but I'm a bit 
worried if this could contaminate my beer with 
such copper oxid which disappears from the 
coil. Any tips welcome ...


Alexandre (in Brazil)
- -- 



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:06:43 -0500
From: "Michael A Nemier" <Michael.Nemier at ipaper.com>
Subject: Pils Nomenclature

Dave Howell asked:

"A question for the German Lager lovers out there:  What does the 'CD' in
'CD Pils' mean?"

Simply enough, "CD" stands for "Carl Dinkelacker", the founder and namesake
of the brewery which produces the product of interest.  I was just there a
couple
of weeks ago.  Decent enough pils, I suppose.

Michael A. Nemier - Bloatarian Brewing League (Cincinnati)



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:25:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan Dooley <ntdooley at excite.com>
Subject: Weihenstephaner Clone?

Hi all-

Does anyone have a recipe for a clone of the Weihenstephaner Original Lager?
I've done a fair amount of searching and haven't been able to come up with
one.

Thanks a lot-

Nathan Dooley
Austin, Texas (a long way from Jeff Renner geographically, and even further
in homebrewing experience)








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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:38:26 -0500
From: "Thrash Librarian" <thrashlibrarian at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Which beginner kit?

I'm new to homebrewing, and I purchased my kit from Northern Brewer. The 
only thing that I wish would have been included was a thermometer of some 
type, so I went out and bought that. The kit does come with some 
instructions (probably enough to get you through your first batch), but a 
good homebrew book might also be in order. I actually bought the all glass 
kit, but I'm sure the plastic/glass kit is comperable.

They were very fast with the delivery, and the website has a great forum 
that has been helpful with various questions I've had.  I'm completely 
satisfied.

Mike

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:18:36 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray at mm2k.net>
Subject: Which beginner kit?

Making the Christmas list and of course you know what's at the top!

What do you recommend for a good beginners kit?  Northern brewer seems to
have a good kit. I was thinking of getting one with a glass carboy as the
secondary fermenter? Suggestions? Recommendations? Hints?

Thanks,

Tray Bourgoyne





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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:22:56 -0800
From: jmcdonald at library.caltech.edu
Subject: "Buck"


Wouldn't something like this be similar to that Hooch or Hard Lemonade stuff
that women like to drink?  It might be interesting to see how close you can
come to cloning that stuff - and not too expensive to toss out if it tastes
as bad as Mike says (and I would imagine it does).  Does anyone have a Hooch
clone recipe already perfected?

John


>From: Brewmiker at aol.com
>Subject: "Buck"
>
>Dwight,
>After 18 years of working in prisons in Michigan, I can echo Mr Thompson's 
>info in that the brew is made from whatever they can steal. Usually canned 
>fruit, fruit juice,etc. 
>
>Mike Mullins, in Michigan's Thumb


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:28:14 -0500
From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil>
Subject: pump recalculation and grants

HBDers,

Thanks to all those responding to my Qs. Some felt the grant isn't necessary
and others felt it's the best way to go.  Since my original post, I went
ahead and purchased a food grade poly-plastic 1 gallon container that will
be my grant.  

I'll let y'all know how it works out.

Mike
Cherry Hill NJ


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:50:46 -0500
From: William & Kazuko Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Teflon washer alternative...

Hi everyone...

I think I may have posted this in the past...but there is a very simple 
alternative to searching out teflon washers for home-made bulkhead fittings.

Simply take some of the standard teflon tape that is available everywhere, 
and twist it between your fingers to make a thread out of it. Well, string 
would be a better descriptive term. It does become thicker than a thread.

Wrap several turns of this teflon string around both sides of the nipple 
that passes through the keg wall, then tighten the couplings that thread 
onto each end of the nipple. The teflon string will flatten and become that 
teflon washer that can be so elusive for us home brewers to find.

I used this method in my RevRims system and never had even one drop leak 
from any of my home-made bulkhead fittings. Simple, reliable, easy...cheap!

Absolutely reliable over the couple years I have been brewing on my system, 
which employs four of these home-made bulkhead fitting with home-brewed 
teflon string instead of washers.

Hope this helps someone out there....

Bill Macher   Pittsburgh, PA    USA




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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:40:51 -0600
From: "Vernon, Mark" <mark.vernon at pioneer.com>
Subject: ProMash Water Recipe

I am now the proud owner of a water distiller (I love ebay). I plan on
starting to "Build" my brewing water using ProMash to formulate recipes for
the ideal water profile of the beer I am brewing. Rather than spend hours
clicking away trying to find just the right combination of ingredients for
each water type I thought "I bet someone on the HBD has already done this".
So if you have done this and would be willing to share your Water Recopies I
would greatly appreciate it. I am looking for recipes that use Distilled
water as the starting point to replicate the famous waters of the world. I
will also compile these and offer them out to everyone else once I have them
collected...if there is an interest in that. 

Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT
Sr. Network Engineer
Global Infrastructure
Pioneer, A DuPont Company
EMail:Mark.Vernon at Pioneer.com

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing
it.
- -- Chinese proverb




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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:34:50 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkinson at goquest.com>
Subject: RE: Removal of Rubber 'Feet' from Corny Kegs

H. Dowda wrote:

>I want to remove the rubber/plastic bottom from a
>corny.  Before I try to reinvent the wheel, any
>comments from people who have actually done it
>successfully.  Thanks.  E-mail fine.

I have the opposite problem.  I have a keg which has the bottom off. 
What is a good glue to use to reattach it?  The top is loose, too, but
still attached.  I need to glue both ends back to the keg.  I am
curious, though, why anyone would want to remove the bottom?  Mine won't
stand up without it.

John Wilkinson


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:36:56 -0700
From: Brett Hetherington <Bretth at idcomm.com>
Subject: Re: bottle testing

Steven St.Laurent wrote in costernation...

"I've got a few 16oz swing lids that have over time
consistently failed to
carbonate (bottle condition) even after replacing gaskets.
Can anyone
recommend a easy method of testing these?..."

To test the pressure-worthiness of a swing top bottle, I
would recommend the following:
Add 1/4 tsp of baking soda to your bottle. 
Add a teaspoon of vinegar and close the bottle immediately.
Submerge the bottle  in a bucket of water and watch for
bubbles.
Some caveats, if my recommended amounts of baking soda and
vinegar are excessive, you may see leakage at some point. Or
the bottles might blow up on you.
be sure to soak the bottles in bleach and rinse thoroughly
after testing to avoid acetobacter infection from the
vingar.
The whole idea is that  baking soda and vinegar give off
carbon dioxide, thus causing positive pressure in your
bottles.

 -Brett


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:36:44 -0600
From: Crossno Clan <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: Mead questions

Can you pitch a second batch of mead on the yeast cake from the previous
batch? Or is the yeast just to tired and lacking essential vitamins and
stuff?

If the honey you have is dark and not great what is the best way to
adjust?  Fruit? herbs? ???

On-On
Glyn
Estill Springs,  TN


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