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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Vinatge 1999 (bobbrews) Johnson" <Robert at bobbrews.com>
  Re: Re: bottle testing (John Wilkinson)
  Thanks Pat and Karl (Denis Bekaert)
  re: Changes coming to the HBD... (John Schnupp)
  Water retention in mash (msnyder)
  dark honey ("David Craft")
  Re: Swing top bottles ("Peter Fantasia")
  RE: Removal of Rubber 'Feet' from Corny Kegs ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Removal of Rubber feet (Dan.Stedman)
  Re: water recipes ("Drew Avis")
  re:Mead questions (susan woodall)
  re: Copper soup (susan woodall)
  Re: Copper Soup (John Palmer)
  Re: Copper soup (susan woodall)
  Tobacco stout? ("Ralph Davis")
  McGuire's in Destin ("marc_hawley")
  Liquid Yeast Trouble ("Brad Boes")


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:34:44 -0800
From: "Robert (bobbrews) Johnson" <Robert at bobbrews.com>
Subject: RE: Vinatge 1999

I cannot agree more with you on the 1999 version of Fullers
vintage ale. I have 97,98,99 and now 2001 and plan a vertical
tasting this New Years before the serious drinking begins. I have
in my personal stocks about 48 bottles of the 99 I loved it so
much. I hope to brew something similar this coming year. Just
finished aging a trappist style quad that I brewed in 1999 and
has been quietly aging in a keg since. Destined to be tapped also
on New Years eve.

Robert

Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:12:40 -0600
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject: A must try this holiday season....

A just wanted to wish seasons greetings to the post and its
readers....

Also to let everyone know that if you can find a bottle of
Fullers 1999
Vintage Ale, do so.. Run don't walk as this is one holiday barley
wine to be
remembered.  I am still smiling over this one, and would
recommend it to the
masses......


Stefan
stefan_berggren at trekbike.com

Of doctors and medicines we have in plenty more than
enough...what you may,
for the Love of God, send is some large quantity of beer. --
Dispatch from the Colony, New South Wales, 1854



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:17:23 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkinson at goquest.com>
Subject: Re: Re: bottle testing

Brett Hetherington wrote:


>To test the pressure-worthiness of a swing top bottle, I
>would recommend the following:
>Add 1/4 tsp of baking soda to your bottle. 
>Add a teaspoon of vinegar and close the bottle immediately.
>Submerge the bottle  in a bucket of water and watch for
>bubbles.
>Some caveats, if my recommended amounts of baking soda and
>vinegar are excessive, you may see leakage at some point. Or
>the bottles might blow up on you.
>be sure to soak the bottles in bleach and rinse thoroughly
>after testing to avoid acetobacter infection from the
>vingar.
>The whole idea is that  baking soda and vinegar give off
>carbon dioxide, thus causing positive pressure in your
>bottles.

If I am not mistaken, commercial vinegar contains no acetobacter.

John Wilkinson in Palestine, Texas (that is pronounced Palesteen, not
like the middle eastern version)
Sorry, Jeff, I have been forgetting the location in my posts.


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:01:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Thanks Pat and Karl

Pat and Karl...all too often we, me included, take all
that you guys do for us brewers far too casually. 
Keeping the HBD going is far more work than most of us
realize.  So, please let me say a simple "Thanks...and
this homebrew is for you"

Take time out to enjoy the holiday season and a few
brews.

Again, thanks....

Denis in Beechgrove, Tennessee where moonshine is our
history, but homebrew is our passion



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:54:09 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Changes coming to the HBD...

From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
>First, our ISP was swept up in the great shrinkage of the
>internet, and has gone bankrupt. Another ISP has purchased our
snip
>And, since our contract with the prior ISP had
>expired, there'll likely be a renegotiate on the monthly fee.

So is there still a server fund?  Actually, financially, how are things looking
for HBD?  I know there was a server fund.

Perhaps this is the time to remind folks that they can contribute.  Most of the
various local clubs I belong to collect dues in Dec/Jan.  Why not consider
adding a small contribution ($5, 10, 20 ...) to HBD.  Sure, it doesn't seem
like much but if everyone contributes a little, we all gain a lot.  

Currently, the Digest has no bank account of its own. Donations must be made
payable to Pat Babcock   in order for the funds to be used. Donations can be
mailed to:
HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:54:14 -0600
From: msnyder at wm.com
Subject: Water retention in mash



Hi All,

I'm wondering if anyone has a number for the amount of liquid retained in a
mash.  I'm planning a barleywine - 22 # with 1.25 quarts/lb  (6 7/8 gallons)
held at 153F for 90 minutes.  Rather than continually sparging until I get 6.5
gallons of runoff, I'd like to add just enough sparge water to let the mash run
dry as I get that amount.  Of course, I'll do another "batch sparge"  as the
first is boiling so I can brew a second, lighter beer.  :-)  I figure I'll try
Rob's Big 12 (unless someone has an idea of what goes into the Two Rows in
Houston barleywine).

Thanks in advance.

Mark Snyder
Atlanta, Georgia




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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:24:32 -0600
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: dark honey

Greetings

I have made a few batches with darker honey................they are much
more complex and take longer to become smooth and drinkable. Add some canned
plums or other non-berry type fruit. For some reason the darker honey
doesn't go well with berries.

 I like one 16 oz can per gallon whenever I add fruit. Add the heavy syrup
too.  This will allow you to back off of the dark honey a bit and basicly
replace it with lighter sugar or corn syrup, depending on what the fruit is
sitting on......................

Good luck,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:31:35 -0500
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swing top bottles

I am going to assume that your bottle leaks. If you have bottled beer in
them and they have consistently failed to carbonate the culprit must be
metal fatigue. I would check the pressure needed to close a bottle that
pressurizes and compare the feel to one that does not pressurize. Perhaps
the metal could be judiciously bent back.

Subject: Corny keg glue
Someone wanted to know the best adhesive for the bottom of a cornie. Try
shoe goo by Goop. The stuff sticks to anything and dries as hard but
flexible as the sole of a sneaker. I've filled holes in boots with it and
it's great. No aff etc...

Pete Fantasia
NJ


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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:21:46 -0600
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Removal of Rubber 'Feet' from Corny Kegs

Why don't you guys just swap kegs and solve both your problems ;-)

Dave Houseman
SE PA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:34:50 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkinson at goquest.com>
Subject: RE: Removal of Rubber 'Feet' from Corny Kegs

H. Dowda wrote:

>I want to remove the rubber/plastic bottom from a
>corny.  Before I try to reinvent the wheel, any
>comments from people who have actually done it
>successfully.  Thanks.  E-mail fine.

I have the opposite problem.  I have a keg which has the bottom off. 
What is a good glue to use to reattach it?  The top is loose, too, but
still attached.  I need to glue both ends back to the keg.  I am
curious, though, why anyone would want to remove the bottom?  Mine won't
stand up without it.

John Wilkinson





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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:14:10 -0600
From: Dan.Stedman at PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Re: Removal of Rubber feet



>>I want to remove the rubber/plastic bottom from a
>>corny.  Before I try to reinvent the wheel, any
>>comments from people who have actually done it
>>successfully.  Thanks.  E-mail fine.

>I have the opposite problem.  I have a keg which has the bottom off.
>What is a good glue to use to reattach it?  The top is loose, too, but
>still attached.  I need to glue both ends back to the keg.  I am
>curious, though, why anyone would want to remove the bottom?  Mine won't
>stand up without it.

>John Wilkinson

Looks like a love connection to me! Why don't you trade?

Dan in Minnetonka





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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:27:01 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: water recipes

Mark Vernon asks about recipes to re-create the water from famous brewing
cities.  A.J. DeLange posted a great series of "water recipes" in 1995 that
show various ways to recreate brewing waters with salts and RO water.  Do a
search on "water series DeLange" in the 1995 HBD and you'll hit the gold
mine.  EG, Vienna: http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/1813.html#1813-17

Alternately, check out Paddock Wood
(http://www.paddockwood.com/catalog_chemicals.html#WATER) - they sell
pre-measured salts to treat 20 l of RO water, a pretty neat idea.

Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:41:09 -0800
From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
Subject: re:Mead questions

I actually did three batches of mead with the same yeast and had no
problem!  I pitched nutrients in each time of course.  Try Wyeast 3632,
Dry Mead, It is great stuff!--Dave woodall
Can you pitch a second batch of mead on the yeast cake from the previous

batch? Or is the yeast just to tired and lacking essential vitamins and
stuff?





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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:48:08 -0800
From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
Subject: re: Copper soup

Don't quote me on this,  but I noticed the same thing and have
researched this phenomena (not really but just basic chemistry), and
have heard that copper ions are good nutrient for the yeast and they
love it!--David

I've seen my cooler (cooper coil), being
be "cleaned" every time I soak it my boiling
wort (last 3 minutes). I use to make extract
beers and probably this is a normal reaction
caused by the wort acidity but I'm a bit
worried if this could contaminate my beer with
such copper oxid which disappears from the
coil. Any tips welcome ...


Alexandre (in Brazil)



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:01:52 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Copper Soup

Alexandre asks if there is a problem with the dark copper oxides that 
dissolve off his copper immersion chiller when he uses it.

Probably not, for a couple reasons. One, the yeast tend to absorb most of 
the heavy metals and settle out at the end of fermentation, so most of 
whatever amount of copper is dissolved into the wort will not be in the 
beer. Second, unless you have experienced nausea or stomach cramps and your 
hair, skin and fingernails have turned green, you have not ingested enough 
copper to worry about. Copper is an essential nutrient in small amounts anyway.

But it is always best to make sure your chiller is clean before use. If it 
has a lot of black oxide on it, or green oxides, then clean it in vinegar 
before using it. If it is just a dull ruddy copper color, that is fine.
Hope this helps,
John (metallurgist)

John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:12:47 -0800
From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: Copper soup

I never thought about the human health aspect but don't believe or can't
imagine that a the small amount of copper ions in a five gallon batch could
be very harmful!!
David

Alexandre Carminati wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> no other signs ? Copper can be toxic in some cases, this is my worrying
> ...If  I get somthing more I'll notice you !!
>
> Thanks for a while
>
> Alexandre
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
> To: <carminat at email.com>; HBD <post@hbd.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:48 PM
> Subject: re: Copper soup
>
> >
> > Don't quote me on this,  but I noticed the same thing and have
> > researched this phenomena (not really but just basic chemistry), and
> > have heard that copper ions are good nutrient for the yeast and they
> > love it!--David
> >
> > I've seen my cooler (cooper coil), being
> > be "cleaned" every time I soak it my boiling
> > wort (last 3 minutes). I use to make extract
> > beers and probably this is a normal reaction
> > caused by the wort acidity but I'm a bit
> > worried if this could contaminate my beer with
> > such copper oxid which disappears from the
> > coil. Any tips welcome ...
> >
> >
> > Alexandre (in Brazil)
> >



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:18:38 -0500
From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
Subject: Tobacco stout?

As a fan of good stout and cigars... (who is fermenting a batch of Imp.
Stout now and who has some old ripped up cigars on hand), has anyone tried
putting tobacco into beer?  I mean tobacco does smell good, and maybe could
be used for dry hopping to ad aroma... Anyone out there ever try this?  Or
maybe some other way of combining these two pleasures?

Ralph W. Davis
[6699, 91.9] Rennerian

"Beer is living proof that God loves us
and wants us to be happy."   -Benjamin Franklin



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:19:16 -0600
From: "marc_hawley" <marc_hawley at msn.com>
Subject: McGuire's in Destin

Definitely order the smoked prime rib with your stout.



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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:34:34 -0600
From: "Brad Boes" <gerald.boes at verizon.net>
Subject: Liquid Yeast Trouble

Hi,
   I have been having trouble with liquid yeast not working in my beer.  The
last 2 batches brewed have been with liquid yeast- not the smack pack, but
the vials of yeast from White labs- ordered through morebeer.com and shipped
to IL.  Pitched well before their expiration date.

I brewed extract batches from recipes in the Clone Brew book, and pitched
into 70-75 degree, very well aerated wort.  After 24 hrs. of no activity, we
pitched in dry ale yeast and that took right off- well, in a few hours.  I
suspect the long trip via UPS resulted in dead yeast.  Has anyone else
experienced any trouble?

Another question- the second batch is the Petrus Triple from the book, which
calls for Trappist Ale Yeast.  That's what I pitched, and then the dry yeast
24 hours later.  Is it possible that some of the characteristics of the
trappist yeast might come through- even though the yeast seemed dead, and
fermentation didn't take off until after the dry went in?  Also, might it
have been a better idea to add some yeast nutrient, rather than throwing in
some more yeast?  Thanks in advance for any insight you guys may provide-

Brad Boes



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