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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Fading Smoke ("Ray Daniels")
  Way too bitter ale (andy bailey)
  rusty freezers (Randy Ricchi)
  RE:  Ways to cool down the closet? (Brian Levetzow)
   ("Paul Johnsen")
  Don't spoil the bird. ("Dr. Pivo")
  Condensation Problem (Ken Johnson)
  Mini-kegs w/ built in taps? ("Daniel C. Ippolito")
  Stella Artois (Roger & Roxy Whyman)
  Unidentifed Wheat Grain ("Daniel C. Ippolito")
  Condensation Problem ("Glen Pannicke")
  Twas The Homebrewer's Night Before Christmas (mark_t)


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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:43:53 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Fading Smoke

Peter Ensminger has got it right in HBD 3821 when he notes that smoke
character DECREASES with time.  This is certainly true for smoked malt.  As
an example, Spezial in Bamberg makes all their smoked malt in the winter and
then increases the amount used in their recipe by 50% over a six month
period to maintain consistent smoked flavor.  Based on the single example of
Alaskan Smoked Porter the same appears to be true for smoked flavor in beer.
(No other smoked beer has hung around my house long enough for me to further
test this theory!)  Also, this would account for the recent observations by
Mr. Harsh regarding wimpy Schlenkerla: old product could result in the
perception of less smoke.

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org
Don't Miss:
Real Ale Festival - Feb 27 - March 2, 2002 - Chicago, IL
www.realalefestival.com



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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 05:08:42 -0700
From: andy bailey <abailey59 at home.com>
Subject: Way too bitter ale

My first all grain batch, a Fat Tire clone is not supposed to be excessively
bitter by design. Promash gives an IBU of about 21, and out of the secondary
ferment, the beer had a very delicate, and balanced bitterness (at about 70
degrees F). However, now that it is kegged, cooled, and force carbonated, it
has an excessive bitter flavor, which resembles extreme hop bitterness, but
doesn't seem to taste quite like hop bitterness. I have 2 other beers on tap
right now, and they don't suffer from this, leading me to eliminate the CO2
tank as the cause. I have never tasted astringency from over sparging, or
boiling husks, so I don't know what that tastes like. O know about stopping
the sparge around 1.008 to 1.010 and thought I had done that.

Could a astringent taste from over-sparging or boiling grain husks show up
now or should it have shown up immediately, like right after the boil?

Also, I sanitised the kegs with iodophore, and thought that I had thoroughly
rinsed it from the kegs. Could some residual iodophore produce this off
taste?

Some how it showed up after it left the carboy.

Either way, this is a 10 gallon batch, that I hope isn't ruined. Any
thoughts or similar experiences anyone would like to share?

Andy Bailey 


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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:12:59 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: rusty freezers

David Houseman asked about repairing a rusty freezer.

I had the same problem. The rust started within a couple of months after 
purchasing the freezer brand new. By the way, my freezer is a Woods brand. 
Other brands may have fewer seams (that's where the rust starts), or 
perhaps better sealed seams.

Anyway, after a couple of years I decided I had better do something or 
before long I wouldn't have a freezer left.

First, unplug the freezer, open it up, wipe it dry, and then leave it open 
to really dry out and warm up. I left mine sitting a few days with a 
dehumidifier in it.

Using a wire wheel on my drill, I removed all the rust and loose, flaky 
stuff.  This came off quite easily. Then I used naval jelly to chemically 
deactivate any rust that was still there but that I couldn't see. Note: you 
can get stuff that works the same as naval jelly but sprays on as a thin, 
clear liquid, which changes to black as it dries and hardens. I would 
recommend this stuff over naval jelly because it is easier to work with. I 
forget what it's called, but you can find it in the hardware section of any 
Wal-mart-type store.

Next, seal all the seams with a high quality silicone caulk. Don't try to 
save a few penny's when buying the caulk, or you'll be doing this job again 
in a year or two.

After the caulk is cured (24 hrs, maybe 48), spray everywhere you have been 
working with a white "appliance" enamel.  Voila, you are done.
I did this in August, and so far everything still looks good. No rust. 
Sure, you still get condensation inside like before (you're always going to 
have that), but it is not penetrating the seams.



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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:46:02 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at home.com>
Subject: RE:  Ways to cool down the closet?

Chad writes:

>I'm wondering what, if any, methods have people used in the past to get
>their brew about 5 degrees cooler, so that ales brew better?

The $8 solution (or thereabouts)?

Fill up a few empty 2L bottles with water, and put them in your freezer.

Go to your favorite discount chain store (Target, Wal-Mart, etc.) and
purchase a 20 gal Rubbermaid storage container (or similar) that's big
enough to put your fermenter in.

With the fermenter inside the container, fill the container with cold
water to the 3 gal mark on your fermenter.  Add a little bleach to the
water if you'll be fermenting longer than a week (helps keep the slime
down).

Cycle the 2L ice bottles into the water to maintain whatever temp you're
looking for (helps if there is a temp. strip on the fermenter above the
water line).

If you're really having problems keeping the temp down, you can use a
towel draped over the fermenter and into the water.  The water will
"wick" up the towel, evaporate, and help reduce the fermenter temps, up
to 10F.

Merry Christmas all!

- -- 
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:48:14 GMT
From: "Paul Johnsen"<PBJohnsen at isd.net>
Subject: 

David Houseman wrote

I have a chest freezer with temperature control I use for primary
fermentation of lagers and to keep kegs of ale handy. I just spent some
time cleaning it out. There's a lot of rust and bulging around seams. Some
spots of flecking paint and rust on the bottom as well. The problem seems
to be condensation that forms in the freezer. When not opened for access
the only point not sealed is the line where the temperature probe may prop
the insulation around the top up just a bit in that area. When fermentation


is active, some humid CO2 is filling the freezer and condensing on the sides


for sure. Others must have had similar problems. How did anyone solve
this? I'd like this freezer to last many more years; it's only 4 years old.



I too have this problem with my chest freezer. It is my understanding though

that the condensation from the air(h2o) entering and 
cooling off mixes with
the carbon dioxide(co2) from any fermentation going on 
to form carbonic acid(h2co3)
which could be part of the problem you have.
 I just wipe out the freezer every
Saturday or the condensation gets to be too much.

Encarta - "Carbonic acid: a weak dibasic acid formed 
when carbon dioxide dissolves
in water....."
Paul B. Johnsen
Pbjohnsen at isd.net
"Good enough" seldom is


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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:10:24 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Don't spoil the bird.

I should have written this a long while ago.

A lot of the HBD contributors and readers have a holiday where they ate
turkey about a month ago.

Some childish minds in potent, grown up bodies thought they could make a
statement, by killing a bunch of completely innocent people there.

I really should have got this off before their "Thanksgiving" holiday...
I'll try and just squeeze it in for Christmas.

It turns out that i raise turkeys, so I eat a lot of them, and have
cooked them various ways.

This is my most popular turkey recipe, and is in fact beer related.

Ingredients:

A syringe and needle (the bigger the better)
A cheap Riesling wine.
Some beer.
Some spices
A big ol' turkey

Pour up a "drinking glass" of wine. Put your favourite spices in it. (I
like whatever is growing in the garden.... a little dill, oregano,
basil, coriander... I object to sage, rosemary and "bittery"spices).

It's nice if you can get these things fresh and let them  "draw" a day
in the wine.

If you can't... so what?

When it's roasting time, pull up the wine (herb extract) into the
syringe, fit the needle and inject it into the breast and all the white
meat (this will take several loadings of the syringe and will make you
"intra- muscular injection" competent).

Now filll the syringe with BEER and repeatedly inject the legs and all
the dark meat.

I like to then massage in  and outside first with olive oil, and then
with hoisin sauce.

GET A MEAT THERMOMETER!, and place it deep in the breast meat.

I like pulling them out at 67C (they rise about 3C after you've pulled
them).

Doing this on a "Weber type" grill, with "indirect method" has given
extra- extraordinary results, but an oven will do.

The meat is so juicy and delightfull that many a person has learned as
much about the taste of turkey, as the wonderfull flavour of beer at my
house.

Those who know my (often) irrelevant rantings about "dividing brews" to
find out what works best, certainly understand that I've "shot up" many
a turkey "half and half", and this seems to be a reproducibly popular
version.

Merry Christmas

Dr. Pivo




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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:27:25 -0800
From: Ken Johnson <fearless1 at abac.com>
Subject: Condensation Problem

David Houseman wrote:
I have a chest freezer with temperature control I use for primary
fermentation of lagers and to keep kegs of ale handy.  I just spent some
time cleaning it out.  There's a lot of rust and bulging around seams. 
 Some
spots of flecking paint and rust on the bottom as well.  The problem seems
to be condensation that forms in the freezer.  When not opened for access
the only point not sealed is the line where the temperature probe may prop
the insulation around the top up just a bit in that area.  When 
fermentation
is active, some humid CO2 is filling the freezer and condensing on the 
sides
for sure.  Others must have had similar problems.  How did anyone solve
this?  I'd like this freezer to last many more years; it's only 4 years 
old.

Hello David and all,
I solved this problem by placing a "Dry-Z-Air" in the freezer/keg cooler. 
This plastic catch basin has a basket that holds chemical granuals that 
condense the moisture out of the air. Water collects in the basin below the 
basket. If you keep it dumped out, it will dry your cooler up in no time. 
You can find "Dry-Z-Air" at sporting goods kind of stores. They will know 
what you are talking about when you ask.

Ken Johnson


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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:16:45 -0500
From: "Daniel C. Ippolito" <dcippy at hotmail.com>
Subject: Mini-kegs w/ built in taps?



Using these would sure beat buying all of those CO2 cartriges.  Where can I 
get some of these?

Dan Ippolito
Valdosta, GA



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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 18:24:07 -0700
From: Roger & Roxy Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Stella Artois

Hello to all,

Hope everyone got all the brewing toys they wanted.

A friend asked if I could make a Stella Artois and I've never had the
beer. Anyone have any suggestions on a recipe?

Thanks,
Roger Whyman
Parker, CO




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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:11:25 -0500
From: "Daniel C. Ippolito" <dcippy at hotmail.com>
Subject: Unidentifed Wheat Grain

Hi, all.  I have a paranoid mother who stashed hundreds of pounds of grain 
for y2k.  Well, the world's still turning and I took 50 pounds of wheat off 
her hands.  My question is:  is any wheat acceptable for brewing or does it 
have to be a certain kind? -- and if it's not "brew quality" can I still use 
it in small quantities for head retention etc...

Thanks
Dan Ippolito
Valdosta, GA

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"
                        -- Benjamin Franklin




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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:13:47 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <glen at pannicke.net>
Subject: Condensation Problem

David Houseman wrote of his condensation problems:

>I have a chest freezer with temperature control I use for primary
>fermentation of lagers and to keep kegs of ale handy. ... When fermentation
>is active, some humid CO2 is filling the freezer and condensing on the
sides
>for sure.

Dave, I don't think I've solved this problem in mine, but I did reduce the
problem.  When I first got the freezer, I got some outdoor waterproof
sealant and ran a bead around all of the seams to keep condensation from
getting inside the walls (thanks for the tip Forrest!).  But that only
contained the problem.  I've since picked up a product called "Damp Rid".
It's a chemical in a small bucket that you can use to absorb humility in
your basement, boat, wherever.  I use it in my converted freezer.  It works
OK.  The chemical dissolves in the water it absorbs and seeps through the
bottom of the bucket into a second bucket.  Dump, rinse, add more chemical,
viola!  I think the chemical used is calcium chloride (at least it looks and
acts like it) and you might be able to find a similar product under other
trade names.  Hope this helps.

Glen Pannicke
www.pannicke.net


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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:31:54 -0500
From: mark_t at ix.netcom.com
Subject: Twas The Homebrewer's Night Before Christmas

Yes, you've heard it before, but's it's traditional .. so go ahead and open up
a SN Celebration or a Rogue Santa's Private Reserve, or one of your own
special Xmas brews; cause it's time for the Homebrewer's Night Before
Christmas.


Twas The Homebrewer's Night Before Christmas

 'Twas the night before Christmas,and all through the house,
 Every creature was thirsty, including the mouse...
 The steins were empty, and the bottles were too
 The beer had been drunk with no time to brew.

 My family was nestled all snug in their beds
 While visions of Christmas Ale foamed in their heads.
 Mama in her kerchief lamented the drought,
 She craved a pilsner and I, a stout.

 When out on the lawn, there arose such a clatter,
 I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter.
 Away to the kitchen, I flew like a flash,
 Opening the door with a loud bang and crash!
 I threw on the switch and the lights, all aglow,
 Gave a luster of mid-day to the brew-pot below.

 When, what to my wondering eyes should appear
 But Gambrinus himself, the patron of beer.
 With a look in his eye, so lively and quick,
 He said, "You want beer? Well, here, take your pick."

 More rapid than eagles, his recipes came
 As he whistled and shouted and called them by name.
 "Now, Pilsener! Now, Porter! Now, Stout and Now Maerzen!On, Bitter! On,
 Lager! On, Bock and On Weizen!"
 "To the top of the bottles, the short and the tall,
 Now brew away, brew away, and fill them all!"

 As dried hops before a wild hurricane fly,
 And then, without warning, settle down with a sigh,
 So towards the brew-pot, the ingredients flew,
 Malt extract, roasted barley and crystal malt, too.
 And then in a twinkling, I heard it quite plain,
 The cracking open of each barley grain.

 As I drew in my head and was turning around,
 Into the kitchen, he came with a bound.
 He was dressed like a knight, from his head to his toes,
 With an old family crest adorning his clothes.
 A bundle of hops, he had flung on his back,
 And the brewing began when he opened his pack.
 His hops were so fragrant! His barley, how sweet!
 The adjuncts included Munich malt and some wheat.

 The malted barley was mashed in the tun,
 Then boiled with hops in the brew-pot 'till done.
 Excitement had me gnashing my teeth,
 As the sweet smell encircled my head like a wreath.
 Beer yeast was pitched, both lager and ale,
 The wort quickly fermented, not once did it fail.

 It was then krausened, or with sugar primed,
 And just being bottled when midnight had chimed.
 A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
 Soon gave me to know, I'd be shortly in bed.
 He spoke not a word but kept on with his work,
 And capped all the bottles, then turned with a jerk.
 And laying a finger alongside his nose,
 He belched (quite a burp!) before he arose.

 Clean-up was easy, with only a whistle,
 And away the mess flew, like the down on a thistle.
 And I heard him exclaim, 'ere he left me the beer,
 "Merry Christmas to all and a HOPPY New Year!"





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