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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Seasons Greetings! (Pat Babcock)
  smoke beer (ensmingr)
  New Years Recipe Recommendation ("Bob Hall")
  Re: StarSan and Counterflow chillers (Dean Fikar)
  Re: Club Yeast Banks ("Pete Calinski")
  reuse of minis ,a problem ("Joseph Marsh")
  Condensation Problem ("David Houseman")
  re: Mini-keg re-use ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Chattanooga HB club is forming... ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Ways to cool down the closet? ("Chad Gould")
  re: Mini-keg re-use (Pat Babcock)
  5 liter mini kegs with built-in taps ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: parts for running CO2 line into fridge? ("Mike")
  Keeping regular taps clean ("Mike")
  John A. Roe (JarBrew) (professorroe)
  Need to find brew shops and places to consume good brew in New Orleans. ("Tray Bourgoyne")
  New Zymurgy ("David Craft")
  Brewing Scene in Boulder CO ("Jeff Storm")
  Old Foghorn Clone Recipe - Request for Critique ("Charley Burns")


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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:27:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Seasons Greetings!

Seasons Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your holiday ale...

We at the HBD wish you all a safe, happy and blessed Christmas.
Christmas Eve is a wonderful time to be with friends and family.
It is also a time in which many of us find ourselves on the road
in pursuit of time with those friends and family. Be safe when
doing so. If you intend to drive, please cut back on the holiday
cheer so that we find you back here poring over the HBD.
Remember that the consequences of indiscretion with drinking and
driving can be devastating - both to you and yours as well as to
perfect strangers should you meet head-on in your travels.

Lets also spare a few silent moments during our holiday
celebrations to remember those that have perished this year
through no fault of their own and, in particular, for those who
they have left behind. This will be a very hard holiday season
for many. If you know of someone who will be spending the
holidays bereft of their loved ones, or simply someone sho will
be alone, why not invite them by for a fine home brew and a few
hours of your companionship? The rewards are unbelievable!

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:52:57 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: smoke beer

Been some discussion about smoked beer lately. I love 'em so
thought I would chime in ...

Fred Waltman, http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3820.html#3820-13 ,
indicated that the smoke character "increases as the beer ages".
Sorry, but I must disagree. Several lines of evidence as support:

1. I've brewed many smoked beers with Weyerman malt and with malt
that I've smoked myself. In all cases, the smoke character
decreases over time, with significant decline noticeable after 6
months.

2. The Schlenkerla beers that I've had in the U.S. are
significantly less 'smoky' than those I've had in the Bamberg
region, Erlangen to be exact. Schlenkerla doesn't date their
bottles, but I must assume that the Erlangen beers were
'fresher'. An anecdote: several years ago, with a clean palate, I
had a bottle of Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier at a Boston pub that
had absolutely no smoke character. Not sure, but I assume it had
been sitting in the pub's cooler for a long time.

3. In "Smoked Beers", by Daniels and Larson (great book, BTW) the
authors indicate that the smokiness of the Alaskan smoked porter
declines over time (see p. 87-88).

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Writer, Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun
Editor, ASP News:
http://www.kumc.edu/POL/ASP_Home/Newslttr/asp178nl/asp_nl78.pdf
Homebrewer: http://hbd.org/ensmingr




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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 08:04:42 -0500
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: New Years Recipe Recommendation

Fellow Brewers,

My small group of hb'ers is considering a joint brew on the afternoon of 
Dec. 31. We've done the standard ales and lagers in the past, but would like 
to venture into something special ... aka. a barleywine, strong ale, 
imperial stout, etc. that could be opened and enjoyed on Dec. 31, 2002. We'd 
appreciate any suggestions on your favorite brews and recipes that might fit 
the 12 month window. Thanks in advance and best wishes to all for a Happy 
New Year from the Maumee Valley Brews Brothers.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:45:14 -0800
From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: StarSan and Counterflow chillers

Stephen Johnson writes:

> I use a pretty rigorous CIP (clean in place) set of procedures that
> involves a 12-volt pump to recirculate hot water, then a caustic solution,
> followed by warm water rinse, and wrap up with the StarSan rinse both
> before and after using the chiller each time.
>
> Any thoughts from our resident chemists and/or metalurgists out there in
> the HBD collective?
>

Steve,

I'm not a metallurgist or a chemist (okay, I've got a B.A. in chemistry but
that was 25 years and a few zillion beers ago and I don't remember any of
it) but I'm not sure you need to do the Star San rinse.  Myself, I
recirculate warm PBW at the end of the brewing session for 10-15 minutes
followed by a several-minute rinse with tap water from my garden hose while
I'm cleaning up.  PBW seems to be very rinseable and while I can't see the
innards of my homemade copper CF chiller, I do break down the mag drive pump
about once a year and the impeller and housing are always sparkling clean.
I've been doing it this way for about 50 batches and am quite pleased with
the process.  This way, of course, all that is in contact with the copper
between brews is plain old tap water, most of which drains out.  BTW, I
sanitize the chiller simply by recirculating 200+ degree wort through it at
knockout for about 2 minutes prior to chilling.

Cheers,
Dean Fikar
Fort Worth, TX



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 08:43:21 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Club Yeast Banks

I have been traveling and may have missed or glossed over part of the
discussion on this topic so excuse me if the aspect I address here has been
covered before.

I think the problem the yeast company has is that when someone propagates
yeast from their original, there is no way (short of having access to a full
fledged yeast lab) that one can be sure it is the same strain.  So, if it
isn't the same strain but some mutation or contaminated version, the yeast
company gets the blame. I can't find fault with them for being concerned
when someone is passing around a yeast and saying it is company xxx's number
yyy yeast.  If it isn't the true strain that they developed and spend lots
of time and money ensuring the purity of, their reputation is at stake.

I don't know if they would have a problem if you said you have some yeast
that is the xth generation that started with company xxx number yyy yeast.

Just think what would happen if someone wrote a computer operating system
that did everything that Windoze does.  Could they sell it as Windoze?  (Of
course it would probably have less bugs than Windoze so they wouldn't want
to use the same name.)

Just my opinion.  Sorry if this aspect was covered and I missed it.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 11:44:22 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: reuse of minis ,a problem

I have had problems with sanitizing the dispence tap on these minis. Nice 
green fuzzzy mold growing when I pulled it out. I haven't taken one apart 
but as the green fuzzy was dry it was not in contact with the beer. The 
experimental brew was ok if not what I expected so I don't think it was 
infected. Sliding the tap in and out might introduce an infection though.

Long and short of it is make sure you clean the outside too.

Joe



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 11:46:54 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
Subject: Condensation Problem

I have a chest freezer with temperature control I use for primary
fermentation of lagers and to keep kegs of ale handy.   I just spent some
time cleaning it out.  There's a lot of rust and bulging around seams.  Some
spots of flecking paint and rust on the bottom as well.  The problem seems
to be condensation that forms in the freezer.  When not opened for access
the only point not sealed is the line where the temperature probe may prop
the insulation around the top up just a bit in that area.  When fermentation
is active, some humid CO2 is filling the freezer and condensing on the sides
for sure.  Others must have had similar problems.  How did anyone solve
this?  I'd like this freezer to last many more years; it's only 4 years old.

David Houseman
SE PA



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 11:33:19 -0600
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at charter.net>
Subject: re: Mini-keg re-use


> I reuse them all the time. The bung in most
> commercially-produced minis are a pain in the buttocks to
> remove, usually requiring careful use of a knife, but the hole
> is the same size as the Fass-Frisch minikegs, and the seals sold
> for 5 liter minis fit (they're the same keg; it's just that
> most commercial bungs use plastic reinforcement which latches
> into the opening). I bought a couple of those Fass-Frisch "Beer

Thanks for the reply. The kegs I've gotten recently are a bit different 
than the ones I used (& re-used) back when I hasd a mini-keg set 
up. These kegs have a built-in tap, so no need to punch a hole in 
the keg, and the bung is different. It doesn't have the push-through 
center piece to allow tapping with a Fass-Frisch or Phil's tap, and 
they aren't plastic reinforced,so they can be removed much more 
easily & non-destructively.  

They have a small, red plastic center piece that rotates to uncover 
a small hole through the side of the bung to allow air to enter the 
keg for gravity draining through the built in tap at the bottom of the 
keg.  It is these bungs that I'm interested in re-using (& thereby 
avoiding the purchase of an air pump).

Regards,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:53:47
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: Chattanooga HB club is forming...

A homebrewing club is being formed in choo-choo town.  All homebrewers in
the vicinity of Chattanooga are encouraged to attend the first meeting on
Saturday, 1/26/02 at the Beverage Barn off of Hixson Pike at 1 P.M.  A map
and additional info is available at http://barleymob.freeservers.com/ or
via email at: barleymob at usa.com. 

Happy holidays to all!

c.d. pritchard  cdp at chattanooga.net
http://hbd.org/cdp/   http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:59:49 -0500
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Ways to cool down the closet?

Here's a question since I'm just starting down this path -- Ales from what I
gather typically like to be brewed at around 60-70 degrees. At this time of
the year, 70 degrees in the house is not a problem; however, in the summer,
cooling down the house 5 degrees sounds expensive (not to mention a bit
chilly for wandering around the house).

I'm wondering what, if any, methods have people used in the past to get
their brew about 5 degrees cooler, so that ales brew better?




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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 16:32:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: re: Mini-keg re-use


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Tidmarsh provides a more complete description of the kegs he has
come into possession of...

They're the same as the five liter kegs - just a different plug,
and the retractable faucet. My neighbor gave me several. In any
case, more the better - I've re-used them as well. Soak the bung
in Iodophor just as you would any other. I also like to open and
close the vent in an iodophor solution to ensure the surface of
the vent cover is sanitized as well.

Best bet remains filling through a CP rig from a five gallon
keg, though. I'm not sure how confident I'd be of the tap under
the pressure of an over-primed batch. 

Good call on the use for real ales - hadn't considered
that. I've always just used them as single-use party kegs (ie,
the contents are guaranteed to be drained at one event).

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:49:30 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: 5 liter mini kegs with built-in taps

"TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net> mentions using these to dispense real
ale.  They would be fine, but the vent / bung is not meant to be reused so
it can suffer during extraction and might be an insertion problem.  We
produce "Phil's Relieph Bung" which is a homebrew mini keg bung that has
been modified with a relief valve built into it.  Phil's Relieph Bung could
be used to vent these kegs while preserving some carbonation.   When the tap
no longer pours due to a vacuum, one would simply pick up the screw head of
the valve to vent the head space.  Any carbonation that builds up between
servings would be retained by the valve allowing the beer to stay fresh a
bit longer than it would if it just sat there and degassed.

We are also introducing "Phil's Mini Keg Gasser" for these kegs.  It is a
device that delivers CO2 to the top of the kegs to maintain pressure and
freshness.  It uses the same 12g CO2 cartridges and dispenser that the
Philtap uses.

Drop me a line if anyone has any questions.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!




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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:46:46 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: Re: parts for running CO2 line into fridge? 

I agree with Jens. When I started out kegging I keep the keg and regulator
inside the refrigerator and occasionally the regulator had condensation on
it. I didn't like that at all. And with the keg inside 5 kegs will fit in
there. With it outside 6 kegs will fit in there.

I just drilled a hole in the side of the fridge big enough for the plastic
hose to go through and sealed it, and the burrs, with a rag. Its nice to
have shutoff valve for when the CO2 tank is being changed. Also I have a tee
and a disconnect on the outside this way I can close the valve going into
the fridge, hook-up a newly filled keg, put about 30 lbs. on the line and
force carbonate the beer while I'm cleaning up. Every once in a while I'll
give the keg a good shake. By the time I'm done cleaning up the beer is
fairly well carbonated. Then the pressure is turned down and into the fridge
she goes.

Mike





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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:56:34 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: Keeping regular taps clean

At a recent party some members of the HB club got talking about the taps on
the outside of the fridge vs. the picnic tap inside.

The outside, metal, taps are nice, nice during a party, but on a day to day
bases, if they are not used enough the get nasty up inside and need to be
taken apart and cleaned quite often. One of the folks said he keep a spray
bottle with Star-San in it handy and on shoots a shot in the spigot each
time he draws a brew.

How do you keep those outside faucets nice and clean? I'm still using the
picnic taps.

Mike





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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:08:23 -0500
From: professorroe at cs.com
Subject: John A. Roe (JarBrew)

     At 02:15 this morning, December 23rd 2001
   John A. Roe, my father, passed away at his home
   in Michigan.
     He was an avid brewer for 30 years and had
   focused on CAP for the past several years getting
   much help and enjoyment from this group, especially
   from Mr. Jeff Renner.
     My father was an engineer and has left me with 30
   years of meticulous records, observations, data
   and equipment with which to enjoy this hobby myself.
     It is something to remember and be with him by.

   Thank you all,

   John Roe



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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:25:18 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray at netdoor.com>
Subject: Need to find brew shops and places to consume good brew in New Orleans.

I posted this once before not to long ago. My HD cratered and I lost
everyone's suggestions!

I am going to New Orleans very soon and am looking for places to get good
beer and beer making supplies in New Orleans.
Someone made a very good rundown of places to go for good beer.

Any and all info greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Tray Bourgoyne
Raymond, MS




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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:10:59 -0600
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: New Zymurgy

Congratulations to Ray Daniels and his staff for the latest Zymurgy, January
2002.  From beginning to end it is the best I have ever read. I can imagine
how hard it is to keep the topic fresh. I know there is alot to write about,
but beer only goes so far!

I am impressed with the Solera article by Jeff Renner.  This might be a good
project for a brew club, as different people could add different beers at
different times.  I don't have a cellar or a dedicated space that I keep at
55 degrees. We'll talk about it here in Greensboro, NC!  I have some
Barleywine that I was not particularly impressed with I could add.

Question for Jeff or anyone else, does oxidation play a big part in the
process?  I assume if you have Acerbacter working, you have some oxidation
somewhere along the way. What keeps this from turning to Vinegar?

Again, a great article and magazine. If you are not a member of the AHA, you
should be!

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 17:19:24 -0800
From: "Jeff Storm" <stormyjeff at lycos.com>
Subject: Brewing Scene in Boulder CO

I am moving to Louisville, CO in January.  I am wondering if 
someone could provide me with some info on the brew scene in 
the Boulder/Louisville area. 

I am looking for any good homebrew shops, a place to get me 
Co2 tank filled since I keg almost all my beer and a good 
place to buy grain in bulk (50 lb bags).  Out here in the
San Jose CA area I pay about $17-25 for 50 lb bags of grain 
from a distributor that sells to the public.  Any help on
the homebrewing scene is greatly appreciated.

Person emails are welcome to this address.

Thanks,

Jeff Storm




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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:25:15 -0800
From: "Charley Burns" <CharleyBurns at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Old Foghorn Clone Recipe - Request for Critique

Its been almost 3 years since my last barleywine brew and I'd really like to
try cloning old foghorn. Michael Jackson says that its Pale and Crystal
along with Cascade at about 1.100 OG.

Any comments on the following recipe would be welcomed:

22 lbs HB Pale Ale
3 lbs HB Crystal 20

Mash 155F 1 hour

2 oz N Brewer 6.5% 60 min
2 oz Cascade  7.0% 30 min
2 0z Cascase  7.0% 2 min
2 oz Cascade  7.0% dry (3-4 weeks)

90 min boil

Wyeast 2112 - remains of steam brew




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