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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  almond flavor (leavitdg)
  Filters ("Doug Hurst")
  counter flow cleaning and RIMs ("steve lane")
  Re: CO2 sources ("Audie Kennedy")
  Star San Acidity Duration (Denis Bekaert)
  Bakery malt extract ("Alexandre Carminati")
  RE: Way too bitter ale (Chris Knight)
  barley cereal mash questions (Rob Dewhirst)


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:17:21 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: almond flavor

Mike describes a "bitter almond flavor" in his pilsner.  I have had the same
taste in mine, but without the "bitter" aspect,..just the almond.  I wonder if
there was insufficient yeast?

Whomever speaks to this, please post to the group.

 ..Darrell
[545.7, 72.3  Rennerian,...I think]


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:12:27 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Filters

Old Gambrinus was kind to me this year, so I am ready to order a number
of brew gadgets with which to expand my brewery.  One item I am
considering purchasing is a water filter.  I am tired of making the trip
to the grocery store every brew day to pick up 8 gallons of spring water
with an unknown mineral profile.  The filter I'm considering is a 10"
carbon block filter that the retailer claims removes all chlorine and
organic flavor while filtering down to .5 micron.  My question is: will
this filter remove any  important minerals from the water?  I have a
chemical analysis of Chicago city water and wouldn't want it to be
drastically changed by the filter.  I don't expect it to
sterilize/sanitize the water only make it taste better.

Thanks,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:48:07 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: counter flow cleaning and RIMs

There must be a better way than what I am doing.  My system is that typical 
2 tier RIM system with a Heart's CFC just below the boiler.  I use gravity 
to run the wort through the chiller and into the carboy.  I built the rack 
so that the outlet of the boiler is 4 inches above the inlet of the CFC and 
the carboy is 6 inches below the outlet of the CFC.
I do not use a pump to transfer to the carboy.

I have been sanitizing the CFC by mixing up a corny full of iodaphor and 
hooking up the keg to the inlet and, under pressure, running the iodaphor 
through the chiller and into the awaiting carboys.  I have a splitter on the 
exhaust side of the chiller and then top off the carboys.  I works OK but 
its a pain to hook up the hoses and the CO2.
Is anyone flushing the boiling wort through the CFC and returning it to the 
boiler with a pump?

When I am done with the process, I flush the CFC with cold water and let it 
air dry.  I've never had a problem with sanitation that can be attributed to 
the CFC, but, I would like to automate this part of the process if possible.

My other questions is, "is there a need to stir the grains in the mash tun 
on a RIMs?"  I had 38 lbs. in the tun on Sat and all was going well.  I 
thought I may get a little better extraction if I give the grain bed a big 
stir and let it reset.  Of course, I knocked the false bottom off of its 
pipe and rendered my pump full of grain.  3 buckets of grain and sweet 
liquor later, I was back in business.  What a mess !!

I see the stir systems out there but is it really needed?  I get 82% 
effeciency already.





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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:37:18 -0500
From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 sources

A lot of the things we use to brew are "food grade" including the plastics
and other hardware.  However, CO2 is CO2, unless you are dealing with the
little cylinders that go into pellet guns.  These may contain oil for the BB
gun's mechanism, which would be BAD for beer.  The CO2 welders use is no
different from the CO2 used in beverages.
Audie Kennedy
Wise, Va.




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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:52:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Star San Acidity Duration

Steve Johnson wrote

"that after a period of time of exposure to air (I'm
not sure how long...several days I think), Star San
will lose it's acidity and its ability to sanitize and
consequently its reactivity to the copper (if any
reactivity exists in the first place)."

I just wanted to correct a bit of misperception, or
perhaps a potential for it, in his comment about Star
San losing its acidity after exposure to air. 
Dilutied Star San even loosely covered in a 3-4 gallon
batch maintains its acidity, and therefore its
sanitizing ability, for months.  I keep it in a
food-grade plastic bucket obtained from a local donut
shop and have never had an infection in my beers.  

I would suggest, however, that you invest a couple of
dollars in some appropriate pH strips to give you some
peace of mind about the acidity.

Perhaps a thin film remaining on a surface would lose
its acidity over time when exposed to air, but I can
assure you that in the diluted form in a bucket, it
does not lose its acidity.

Hoppy New Year to all...

Denis Bekaert in Beechgrove, Tennessee where moonshine
is our history but homebrewing is our passion





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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 03:23:05 +0800
From: "Alexandre Carminati" <carminat at email.com>
Subject: Bakery malt extract

I've tried for many times, to produce home 
beer with bakery syrup malt extract 
(the only syrup available here in Brasil). 
My results were below average expectative, and 
I supose it's because such extract has a lot 
of high sugars (about 30 %) giving 
me a very bodied beer, with low alcohol and 
low malt character. 

I've tried with powder extract also, but it 
seems to have a big protein content 
(at least my worth was similar to a glue keg after 
boiling) and after fermenting also !! 

Is there any suggestion on how to use such 
syrup to produce something better (beer, not 
glue !!) ??? 


Cheers 


Alexandre Carminati (in Brasil) 
- -- 



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Date: 27 Dec 2001 11:42:27 -0800
From: Chris Knight <knight at hypergolic.com>
Subject: RE: Way too bitter ale

>However, now that it is kegged, cooled, and force carbonated, it
>has an excessive bitter flavor, which resembles extreme hop bitterness,
>but doesn't seem to taste quite like hop bitterness.

>Could a astringent taste from over-sparging or boiling grain husks show
>up now or should it have shown up immediately, like right after the boil?

>Also, I sanitised the kegs with iodophore, and thought that I had
thoroughly
>rinsed it from the kegs. Could some residual iodophore produce this off
>taste?

Two of my first few extract batches suffered from a similar off taste.
Extreme bitter aftertaste which wasn't apparent in the wort or after
primary fermentation.

I eventually attributed it to using tap water without pre-filtering or
boiling it to remove chlorine/chloramines.  Since I've switched to filtering
and/or using bottled water for brewing, I've haven't had that problem
in extract or all grain batches.

Unfortunately, those problem batches never got any better with time.

Happy brewing!

Chris Knight


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:54:29 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: barley cereal mash questions


I am planning to use some unmalted barley in a dry stout this weekend. I am
doing a cereal mash as a substitute for flaked barley, but everyone seems to
have a different method.  I've read Renner's articles in the hbd archives,
but he speaks of corn and rice, not barley.

First, I assume I mill the barley before the cereal mash?

Second, how long do I boil?  I've seen ranges mentioned from 10 mins to 6
hours. Same as for rice/corn?

Third, what does this do to the water required for the regular mash?  Do I
go ahead and add my usual 1.33 quarts/lb for the cereal mash even though it
has water added already?  My inclination is to add NO water to the regular
mash to account for the added cereal mash.  How does the water retained in
these spent grains compare to others?  Do they retain a lot more or less
water?

Finally, Renner mentions adding a percentage of malted barley to the cereal
mash of corn or rice.  Is this a good idea for a barley cereal mash as well?


- ---
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
          -- Will Rogers



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