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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  post (JohnT6020)
  keg lube ("Gregor Zellmann")
  Filters (Len Safhay)
  Re: Filters (DHinrichs)
  co2 grading ("steve lane")
  Re: counter flow cleaning and RIMs (Rob Dewhirst)
  Re: CO2 sources (Bill Tobler)
  Re: Extract choices (blutick)
  RE: counter flow cleaning and RIMs ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Grapefruit Beer ("Steven Parfitt")
  Something new (Marc Tiar)
  counter flow cleaning and RIMs ("Fred Kingston")


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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 01:05:41 EST
From: JohnT6020 at aol.com
Subject: post

Doug Hurst asks about a water filter for Chicago [Lake Michigan] water.

There is little fault to be found with Lake Michigan water except the 
chlorine/fluorine and a low level of PCB's.  The charcoal filter should take 
care of this and any silt that may have been picked up in the local 
distribution system.

Some locally sold bottled waters are nothing more than Lake Michigan water 
that has been filtered.

There has probably been more beer produced from Lake Michigan water than from 
any other single source.

Happy brewing in 2002.

JET = John Thompson
          Flossmoor IL


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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:39:27 +0100
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>
Subject: keg lube

Fellow Brewers,

a few weeks ago I switched from bottling my beers to kegging them.
I have four kegs and one does not hold the pressure well. Although I
replaced all the rubber washers and the O-ring, there seems to be pressure
leaking which results in flat beer or a empty CO2 bottle.

I have read about keg lube (which I would like to try) in HBD and r.c.b. but
this product seems not to be available  in Europe.

What is keg lube? Is it a sort of gel? What does it consist of? Are there
more widely known commercial replacements in Europe that do the same job?
Would Vaseline or K-Jelly work? I guess not. But I don't know.

Please enlighten me!

Thanks

Gregor Zellmann
[4247.6, 43.4] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:32:48 -0500
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net>
Subject: Filters

Re: Filters

Doug, the filter you have in mind should be just the ticket. I use the
same one (10" carbon block element) for the same reasons. It removes
chlorine and  vegetal contaminants from my otherwise very good tap
water. Have had excellent results with it. To my knowlege, it does not
remove disolved minerals. Fix, in "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques"
says "Activated carbon...is the best filtaration system to remove
chlorine, organics and residual particulates like sand and dust".
In his comments on reverse osmosis systems, he specifically mentions
that they remove some water minerals. Since he does not mention this
effect with carbon filters, I infer that it doesn't exist or is
negligible.
Len Safhay



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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:01:10 -0600
From: DHinrichs at Quannon.com
Subject: Re: Filters


Doug, carbon filters are a good tool to clean up your water for brewing.
There are two basic types whole house and undersink. These two types are
basically the same just the fittings to your plumbing are different, I like
the whole house as I find it a little easier to maintain. The filters come
in a variety of types sediment (woven thread like), carbon (taste and odor,
chlorine) and others that help cleanup common chemicals from the water. You
can install multiple housing to add additional filter types if needed. 


Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:12:27 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Filters

Old Gambrinus was kind to me this year, so I am ready to order a number
of brew gadgets with which to expand my brewery.  One item I am
considering purchasing is a water filter.  I am tired of making the trip
to the grocery store every brew day to pick up 8 gallons of spring water
with an unknown mineral profile.  The filter I'm considering is a 10"
carbon block filter that the retailer claims removes all chlorine and
organic flavor while filtering down to .5 micron.  My question is: will
this filter remove any  important minerals from the water?  I have a
chemical analysis of Chicago city water and wouldn't want it to be
drastically changed by the filter.  I don't expect it to
sterilize/sanitize the water only make it taste better

Dave, in Minnetonka, MN


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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:33:51 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: co2 grading

>From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: CO2 sources
>
However, CO2 is CO2, unless you are dealing with the
>little cylinders that go into pellet guns.  These may contain oil for the 
>BB
>gun's mechanism, which would be BAD for beer.  The CO2 welders use is no
>different from the CO2 used in beverages.
>Audie Kennedy
>Wise, Va.

I may be wrong on this but isn't it the cylinder that is deemed food grade 
and with o2 it is the cylinder that is deemed medical grade?  I believe that 
this just means that the cylinder is clean and has never had another use, 
such as welding gas or a gas that may have impurities.  Not that welding gas 
is impure, but the cylinder may be.
Keep in mind, these cylinders have numerous uses for holding numerous blends 
of gas and may have had other gases in them before we got ahold of them, if 
used.




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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:17:23 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: counter flow cleaning and RIMs


>
>
>I have been sanitizing the CFC by mixing up a corny full of iodaphor and
>hooking up the keg to the inlet and, under pressure, running the iodaphor
>through the chiller and into the awaiting carboys.  I have a splitter on the
>exhaust side of the chiller and then top off the carboys.  I works OK but
>its a pain to hook up the hoses and the CO2.
>Is anyone flushing the boiling wort through the CFC and returning it to the
>boiler with a pump?

While the mash is going, I boil plain water and run it through my hearts 
cfc.  I then sacrifice the first few cups of wort at the end of the boil by 
running it through the cfc with no cooling water.  Then I turn on water and 
start cooling.

>When I am done with the process, I flush the CFC with cold water and let it
>air dry.  I've never had a problem with sanitation that can be attributed to
>the CFC, but, I would like to automate this part of the process if possible.

I'd like to hear other suggestions here as well.

>My other questions is, "is there a need to stir the grains in the mash tun
>on a RIMs?"  I had 38 lbs. in the tun on Sat and all was going well.  I
>thought I may get a little better extraction if I give the grain bed a big
>stir and let it reset.  Of course, I knocked the false bottom off of its
>pipe and rendered my pump full of grain.  3 buckets of grain and sweet
>liquor later, I was back in business.  What a mess !!


I fold the grain bed a few times during the mash with a large spoon, but 
never within 20 mins of mashout. If your RIMS is recirculating correctly 
and you doughed in with no air pockets at the beginning, I don't see a 
reason to stir.




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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:29:52 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: Re: CO2 sources

Gordon, I have been using my Fire and Safety Shop for years with no
problems.  I don't think CO2 is a  very friendly environment for bugs.
Keeping your tank Hydro date current is just a fact of life if
you want to own a tank.  For a slightly higher cost and probably a monthly
charge, you could rent them from your local gas supplier. I have never heard
of "Food Grade" CO2, but I wouldn't put it past the FDA to require that
stamp if the CO2 is consumed.  I also use industrial O2 to aerate my wort,
with no problems.  It all comes from the same place, medical grade O2
requires certain testing whereas industrial does not.   Cheers

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, Tx.



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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:58:08 -0600
From: blutick at juno.com
Subject: Re: Extract choices

Bob Schaffer-Neitz asked a few questions regarding his New Year brew
session. It looks like a high-gravity Old Ale.

>1)  The recipe calls for 8 lbs of Mountmellick light extract
<snip>...does anyone have
>any likely candidates for substitutes?

I'd use 8 lbs of whatever bulk liquid light extract your local HBS
offers. If they don't offer bulk extract, use packaged.  I've had good
results with Alexander's, Northwest, and Muntons.

>2)  The recipe also calls for 7.5 lbs light DME.  Would the extra
>fermentability of a Laaglander extract be beneficial to this beer or
would I
>simply be robbing it of residual sugars and mouthfeel for a little extra
>alcohol?  Any other suggestions for DME?

Sorry Bob, but you've got it backwards. Laaglander DME is _less_
fermentable than, say, Muntons DME. If you use 7.5 lbs of Laaglander,
you'll be wondering why your FG is too high. I suggest using something
other than Laaglander or "Dutch" DME in this brew. Laaglander is great
stuff, but not in every recipe.

>3)  Since I'll be mashing some specialty grains (.5 lb crystal, .5 lb
Breiss
>special roast, 1 lb carapils) along with my extract, should I pay any
>attention to the water chemistry or will it not be noticeable with all
that
>extract?

Technically, you aren't mashing here as these grains have no enzymes to
convert starch into sugar. In that respect your water chemistry is of
little concern, but do take care that the chlorine has been removed from
all of your brewing water. The starch will add some haze to the finished
beer and theoretically offers nutrients for undesirable microbes later
on. If a bit of haze doesn't bother you, I'd say go ahead and steep these
grains according to the recipe. I've made a few brews with a starch haze,
no problems with infections.

Jim Layton
Howe, TX


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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:42:52 -0500
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: counter flow cleaning and RIMs

When I start the mash, I also throw a few gallons of water into my boil
kettle and bring it to a boil. I then let it run out of the ball valve
on the kettle drain with the valve both half and full open to sanitize
the valve (it is cleaned with a test tube brush at the end of each brew
session).  When drained, I cover the ball valve with foil to keep it
clean.  This way I don't run the risk of aerating the hot wort.  Perhaps
you could sanitize a counter flow the same way, just don't run cooling
water through it at the same time.  I don't waste this boiling hot
water, it's great for killing the weeds growing between the bricks on my
patio (at least in summer time)!

I don't use this water for sparging since it has picked up stuff from
the kettle and has a brownish tint.  I believe the stuff comes off of
the false bottom I use to screen out whole hops.

Reif Hammond
Durham, NH




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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:40:53 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Grapefruit Beer

No, not making beer with Grapefruit, getting grapefruit flavor as a result 
of hops.

I have had this happen twice.

First beer was an IPA with Galena for bittering, Cascades for flavor, and 
Cascades and Sterling for aroma. After two months, there was no Grapefruit 
flavor.

The Grapefruit flavor didn't show up till I dry hopped it with an ounce of 
Whitebread Goldings. It was evident within a couple of days.

The second occurance was a pale ale with Nugget for Bittering, Cascades for 
Flavor, and Cascades and Saaz for aroma. Again, the grapefruit flavor didn't 
show up until I dry hopped the batch. This time with a half ounce of 
Centinneal.


In both cases, the Grapefruit was not evident until I dry hopped. Then it 
showed up overnite.

I've heard of Cascades throwing a Grapefruit flavor, but never heard of it 
showing up after dry hopping with another hop.

Comments?

Steven



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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:52:24 -0800
From: Marc Tiar <marc at tiar.reno.nv.us>
Subject: Something new

Went to my local homebrew supply today and found something new and so 
intriguing I couldn't pass it up.  Essential Spirits has out Sierra Nevada 
Bierschnaps.  It's SNPA distilled to 80 proof crystal clear 
liquor.  Haven't tasted yet, but smells like...well, like good vodka with 
hops and malt.  $25 for a 375ml bottle here.  Apparently they also produce 
their own version from their own beer, but this one is done with SN as a 
partner.

See http://www.essentialspirits.com/products.asp?proid=sierra for more 
info. (no affiliation etc.)

Marc Tiar
Reno NV
[1874.4, 276.4] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: 	Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:01:32 -0500
From: "Fred Kingston" <fred at kingstonco.com>
Subject: counter flow cleaning and RIMs

"steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com> asks:

"Is anyone flushing the boiling wort through the CFC and returning it to the
boiler with a pump?"

Well.... Yes, that too... I have a 3 tiered system. 1st. tier is a 3gal.
grant with a pump mounted on the bottom. The pump then connects to my CFC.
2nd. tier is my mash tun and boiler. They both drop by gravity into the
grant. 3rd. tier is the hot liquor tank. The HLT drops by gravity into the
mash tun. The CFC has an 8' hose that I can redirect to any of the above
vessels.

Here's the process. Fill boiler with 1-2 gals. water. Drop boiling water
into grant. Pump boiling water through CFC and direct hose back into boiler.
10 or 15 minutes of recirc'ing boiling water through the CFC and hoses and I
ain't gotta worry about too much stuff growin' anywhere... Make sure your
pump is rated for 250 degrees or more...

Calculate and fill boiler with all my water needs for sparging and mashing.
Pump needed mash water into mash tun and add grain to mash tun. Mash tun has
it's own burner for step mashing, if that's the plan, and/or single step...
While mash is taking place, I begin to bring remaining sparge water in
boiler up to about 210 degrees... there's a bit of heat loss when it gets
dropped into grant and pumped up to HLT... If I hit my marks, I'm generally
at about 180 degrees in the HLT when I get ready to sparge.

Sparge begins by dropping HLT water into mash tun and simultaneously
dropping wort from tun into grant. Adjusting ball valves on both maintains a
matching even flow into tun and grant.

Periodically switching on pump, pumps wort from grant up the boiler. At
about the 1/2 way mark, I start the burner on the boiler.

After boiling, I generally recirc the finished hot wort through the pump and
CFC and back into the boiler for a few minutes with the counter flow cooling
water running... Then I redirect into my fermentor... at 1 or 2 degrees
differential to the ground water... I then pop the fermentor into my $50
temp controlled refrigerator...

Cleaning is simple... fill the boiler with water, turn on the burner, and
start pumpin' hot water around the vessels... the mash tun is the vessel
that comes down to dump the spent grains on the compost heap.

The entire system is 3 15 gal. kegs, and a 3 gal. keg for the grant. 1 March
pump rated for 250 degrees. 1 Heart's CFC... 2 burners, a multi-ring wok
burner for nice soft heat on the tun, and one of those jet engine burners on
the boiler... and a few feet of high grade plastic hose... This whole thing
sits on a 5' long 2X4 frame, with aluminum roof flashing around the
burners... One end has wheel barrow handles, and the other has casters....
when everything's empty, just pickup the one end, engage the caster... and
wheel the baby back into the garage.

Hope this helps....

Fred Kingston




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