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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Keg Lube and Leaks ("Kirk Fleming")
  CO2 sources ("Lee Hiers")
  Keg Lube ("John Zeller")
  re: Something new (Bierschnapps) (Robert Marshall)
  Re: Bakery malt extract (blutick)
  Re: Grapefruit Beer (Steven S)
  Yeast Reproduction Limit? ("Dave and Joan King")
  RE: keg lube ("Dave Beedle")
  keg lube (Scott & Cherie Stihler)
  Coffee maker as a mash tun (Indwagj)
  RE: Wort recirculation thru CFC ("Steve Jones")
  beer and gps (ensmingr)
  Refractometer vs S.G.? ("Richard T. Perry")
  bottled porter carbonation (SLHMJL)


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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:24:32 -0800
From: "Kirk Fleming" <kirkfleming at earthlink.net>
Subject: Keg Lube and Leaks

In 3825 Gregor ("Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>) asks about Keg Lube.
This is a silicone-based product--you won't want to use a petroleum based
product (such as Vaseline) because such lubricants attack so many materials
including various rubber and latex seals.

You can probably find a number of commercial silicone lubricants--Keg Lube
is, I believe, a commonly available silicone grease re-packaged for the
amateur brewing supplies trade.

One technique I found useful in stopping leaks is to run the tank pressure
up well above what you want to end up with--say, 30-40 psi (sorry, I can't
convert into KPa without hurting myself), then lowering the pressure to the
5-10 psi desired using the bleed valve on the tank (I'm assuming Cornelius
type tanks). Also, some suppliers offer the large O-ring (the one that seals
the keg lid) in soft silicone, which I understand helps.

Finally, you might try the complete disassemby of the ball valves
themselves, to ensure they are free of any particles that may be preventing
the poppets from closing completely. In addition, some home brew shops carry
replacement parts for these valves. Once again, I'm embarassed to give
English units, but I really don't have easy access this minute to conversion
tables and I'm too lazy to do the math.

Kirk Fleming
BSAE, MSAE, FRSL, FRSE, etc., etc.




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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 01:46:12 -0500
From: "Lee Hiers" <lee at dixieliner.com>
Subject: CO2 sources

On 29 Dec 2001, at 0:19, Bill Toble wrote in the HBD:

> I also use industrial O2 to aerate my wort, with no problems.  It
> all comes from the same place, medical grade O2 requires certain
> testing whereas industrial does not. 

Back when my mother was on O2 and I was complaining to my pharmacist 
buddy about the O2 supplier ripping off Medicare to the tune of $40+ 
for a large cylinder of O2, he told me he had a number of customers 
who had no insurance coverage who would buy O2 at the welding shop 
for $5 for the same cylinder.  Like Bill says...it all comes from the 
same place.

Right now I'm just bummed I didn't have time to run down to the fire 
extinguisher joint and get a refill today...I've got a batch ready to 
keg that needs to go to a party on Monday!

Happy New Year!

Lee

- --
Lee Hiers, AA4GA
Cornelia, GA

lee at dixieliner.com



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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:04:06 -0800
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Keg Lube

Gregor Zellman asks:

"What is keg lube? Is it a sort of gel? What does it consist of? Are there 
more widely known commercial replacements in Europe that do the same job? 
Would Vaseline or K-Jelly work?"(snip)

Gregor,

Keg lube is actually silicone grease.  Vaseline is a petroleum based grease 
and will damage rubber o-rings and gaskets.  I'm not sure about KY-Jelly, it 
might be OK.  You might try a Scuba Diving shop in your area if there are 
any.  Divers use silicone grease on their equipment o-rings.

It might be better to locate the source of the leak and see if you can fix 
the problem without the keg lube.  You shouldn't really need it.
I suggest that you pressurize the keg and then brush some dishsoap mixed 
with water around all of the seals.  The leak should be visible as it will 
bubble.  You could also submerge the tank in a bathtub or other tank and 
look for bubbles.  The problem could be in your regulator or CO2 tank so 
check it with the soapy water too.  Pressurize the keg and then disconnect 
it from the CO2 bottle and see if it will hold pressure overnight.  You can 
isolate the problem this way.

 -john zeller
Cincinati, Ohio

220.7, 190.8 Rennarian  (It is distance, bearing right?)







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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:06:47 -0800
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: re: Something new (Bierschnapps)

I fell into this trap a couple of weeks ago. 
This stuff is NASTY!!! For the price I paid 
I could've bought a case of SNPA at 
Costco.

Do yourself a favor. If you see this stuff 
run in the opposite direction as fast as 
you can.

Robert
============

> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:52:24 -0800
> From: Marc Tiar <marc at tiar.reno.nv.us>
> Subject: Something new
> 
> Went to my local homebrew supply today
 and found something new and so
> intriguing I couldn't pass it up.  Essential
 Spirits has out Sierra
> Nevada Bierschnaps.  It's SNPA distilled
 to 80 proof crystal clear
> liquor. Haven't tasted yet, but smells
 like...well, like good vodka
> with hops and malt.  $25 for a 375ml
 bottle here.  Apparently they
> also produce their own version
 from their own beer, but this one is
> done with SN as a partner.
Robert Marshall
robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com
http://www.hockeyhockeyhockey.com/rob
ertjm.html



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:17:31 -0600
From: blutick at juno.com
Subject: Re: Bakery malt extract

Alexandre Carminati reports problems in making beer with the malt
extracts available to him in Brazil. He has experienced low
fermentability when using liquid malt extract and high viscosity when
using dried extract. 

Of the two malt extracts that you have tried, I think that the liquid
presents an easier problem to deal with. I suggest increasing the wort
fermentability by using sugar to make up a portion of the fermentables.
The sugar can be either dextrose or sucrose, it probably doesn't matter
which. As a starting point, 0.5 kilos of sugar and 2.5 kilos of liquid
malt extract in 20 liters of wort should get you a starting gravity of
about 1.046. Give it a try and see what happens. If you feel that the
result still has not reached a reasonable final gravity, you can increase
the sugar/extract ratio or try adding a yeast nutrient to the next batch.

On the other hand, have you considered making an all-grain beer? Perhaps
malted barley is easier to find than suitable malt extract. Maybe there
is a brewery near you that will sell a few kilos of malt. Let us know
what you find.

Jim Layton
Howe, TX


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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:42:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Grapefruit Beer


I had the same thing happen with my belgian wit i've been perfecting.
First Wort Hopped with 2oz of Saaz, Dry hopped with 1oz of Saaz. I used
white labs Belgian Wit yeast. There was a pronounced grapefruit flavor
(more sweet than bitter) that everyone quite enjoyed. It was very
interesting. I'm trying to duplicate it this time around with tomorrows
brew session. The spices i used (coriander, black pepper, orange peel)
went into the boil at the very end and were sucked into the primary. This
time around i'm going to throw 1/2 my spices and a dash of hops into the
primary.

Not sure yet what caused it, I suspect its hop aroma blending with some
ester causing a grapefruit like flavor.



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at corp.earthlink.net ::: 403forbidden.net
			[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem." -- President Ronald Reagan, 1985







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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:00:33 -0500
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Yeast Reproduction Limit?

What governs the max yeast population in a primary?  I know the more
healthy, the better the nutrients, the higher the population. They need
oxygen during that stage, so good aeration is important.  But how do they
know it's time to stop multiplying and time to make HOOCH?

The reason for the request was that I racked an IPA off the primary and
dumped a fresh wort directly into that primary.  Knowing that the 1st batch
fermented vigorously, and it had only been in the primary for 6 days, still
going strong, I figured the yeast were in great shape, but I still used my
normal spray device from the cooled brew pot to the primary, which
oxygenates the wort very well.  I thought about not oxygenating, since I
probably had plenty of the critters but I know the extra oxygen will get
scrubbed out, so it won't hurt anything.

In 4 hours the new batch was going crazy, indicating a huge yeast
population.  All is well, just curious.

            Dave King (BIER)



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:16:44 -0600
From: "Dave Beedle" <dbeedle at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: keg lube

"Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de> sez:

> I have read about keg lube (which I would like to try) in HBD and r.c.b.
but
> this product seems not to be available  in Europe.
>
>What is keg lube? Is it a sort of gel? What does it consist of? Are there
> more widely known commercial replacements in Europe that do the same job?
> Would Vaseline or K-Jelly work? I guess not. But I don't know.


	The keg lubes I have seen are silicon paste (gel) or spray.  A number of
mail order places carry it, look in the kegging section of their catalogs.
You can also find silicon paste (gel) in scuba shops.  It is used to lube
the O-Rings in the regulators when serviced.  It is food grade.  I would not
use Vaseline or other as they are or may be petroleum based and have a
marked aroma and probably flavor.  Use silicon gel or spray sparingly, just
a tiny bit is enough.

TTFN




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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 07:52:01 -0900
From: Scott & Cherie Stihler <stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com>
Subject: keg lube

Gregor Zellmann wrote:

>What is keg lube? Is it a sort of gel? What does it consist of? Are there
>more widely known commercial replacements in Europe that do the same job?
>Would Vaseline or K-Jelly work? I guess not. But I don't know.

Keg lube is a product sold by Williams Brewing (http://www.williamsbrewing.com)
in San Leandro, California.

I've used it myself to stop keg leaks.

It is an tasteless and more of less odorless food grade lubricant.

I probably would not use Vaseline which is petroleum based.

K-Jelly probably should work just fine though I'm not certain of this.

To play it safe you might look into purchasing a food grade lubricant from
a company
that sells various supplies to restaurants etc.

If I recall I've seen lubricants of that sort listed in a wholesale catalog
selling restaurant
supplies though I'm afraid I can't remember the specific company.  Oh well....

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Scott Stihler
Fairbanks, Alaska
[2873.8, 324.9] Apparent Rennerian

P.S. Most of the sealing problems I've had with kegs has been from the
large O-ring. I've found that
by turning the keg upside down for 10-15 minutes the weight of the
beer/wort will usually cause
the seal to seat properly without the need for keg lube or other lubricants.







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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:26:32 EST
From: Indwagj at aol.com
Subject: Coffee maker as a mash tun

I picked up two Fairly large coffee makers (2.3 gallons) on clearance at the 
local super store.  They are made of stainless steel and are thermostatically 
temperature controlled from 130-180F.  I was planning on using one to 
mini-mash in and the other to heat the sparge water.  Does anyone use this 
type of system??  Would it be a good idea to do internal recirculation using 
the percolation apparatus?  Should I worry about oxidation if I did this?

John Wagner
Angola, Indiana


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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:50:52 -0500
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: RE: Wort recirculation thru CFC

Steve Lane asks if anyone else recircs hot wort thru
the CFC.

I've been doing this for about a year now. In late '97
I built a 3-tier gravity fed system using sanke kegs,
but last fall I got a new Hi Temp pump from Moving
Brews (NAJASCYY) for my birthday, so I decided to
rebuild my too tall 3-tier into a 2-tier with pump. I
also built my own copper in copper counterflow chiller
to incorporate into the system.

The whole thing is made from welded 1 1/4" angle iron
and is mounted on 2 fixed & 2 rotating casters for
portability. The upper tier is 18x18 and is 56" high
for the HLT, with a gadget shelf below (very handy),
with the propane tank below that. The lower tier is
18x36 and is 32" high for the mash/lauter tun & the
kettle. All 3 vessels have homemade jet-style burners
under them; the kettle has the CFC mounted underneath,
and the pump is located below the MLT at the lowest
level of the rack. I also have plumbed it so I can
connect a garden hose to it to supply the CFC with
chilling water, and for a mounted activated carbon
filter for brewing water.

I do 10 gallon batches, and I have a false bottom in
the kettle to catch the hop flowers. I won't go into
the details of mashing or sparging, but with about 10
minutes left in the boil, I begin flowing hot wort
thru the CFC to the pump, and back into the kettle to
sanitize the CFC/pump loop. The kettle has a barbed
fitting thru the sidewall at the top, and is connected
inside to a 3/8" copper tube going all the way to the
bottom of the kettle, with a right angle bend at the
bottom. This recirculation sets up a small whirlpool
action, and after the boil is finished, I turn on the
chilling water and continue to recirculate. For the
first few minutes of the chilling cycle I splash the
output water onto the kettle on the outside to remove
the built-up heat frin the skirt of the keg. Once the
wort (in the kettle) gets down to 140 or so (about
8-10 minutes) I will then divert the output to the
fermenters, cracking open a valve at the output of the
chiller to draw in some air (thru a HEPA filter) to
aerate the wort. At this point I can run with the
valves about half open.

My last brew, I incorporated a change based on Jeff
Renner's recent post about chilling & pitching right
in the kettle. I put my old immersion chiller in the
kettle at the time I began the recirculation, and
connected the water output of the CFC chiller to the
immersion chiller. When I began chilling, I continued
recirculation the whole time while chilling the wort
in the kettle down to about 75F, then cracked open my
air valve to aerate. I pitched the yeast and continued
to chill down to 65F. Then I diverted the wort to the
fermenters. I must comment that this worked out very
well, as I was able to run the valves wide open,
and the wort was crystal clear. The 2 carboys
fermented nearly identically, and rather quickly.

After cleanup of the MLT & Kettle, I put 3 gallons
water in the kettle & bring to a boil. I then
recirculate it thru the cfc/pump loop for 5 minutes or
so, then drain. I close all the valves and put it
away. About every 5 or 6 batches, I'll add a step to
recirculate hot PBW solution thru the loop, followed
by another boiling water recirc rinse.

16 batches since rebuild with no problems.

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
stjones1 at chartertn.net
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:24:16 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: beer and gps

Given the interest in Rennerian coordinates, some HBD'rs will be
interested in this geospatial beer news I just discovered on
CNEWS (July 24, 2001) ...

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Writer, Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun
Homebrewer: http://hbd.org/ensmingr

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTechNews0107/24_beer-sun.html :
- ----
BEER HUNTERS TO TRACK DRINKERS

Toronto -- If you happen to be sucking back a bottle of Coors
Light somewhere in Quebec over the next couple of months, you
might find yourself being tracked by a military satellite system
and hunted down by a pack of beer promoters.

Molson Inc. planted three special "tracker bottles" as part of an
instant-win promotion that ends Sept. 28.

The tracker bottles don't contain beer. Instead, each is filled
with a GPS satellite transmitter that allows the Global
Positioning System of satellites maintained by the U.S. military
to pinpoint a person's location to within 10 or 12 metres.

A twist of the cap activates the satellite transmitter and a tiny
cellular modem in the bottle sends the geographic co-ordinates to
a base station.

Software is then used to generate a map of where the person is
located and a team of Molson representatives is dispatched to
track down the winner.

Winners will get an all-expenses-paid trip for two to Los
Angeles.
- ----
[Seems like the real prize is that there's one less bottle of
Coors light that you've gotta drink. - PAE]





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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:01:28 +1200
From: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Refractometer vs S.G.?

Greetings to the collective -

So Santa was good to me this year. My wife presented me with a
gift certificate for my favorite homebrew source - Homebrew Heaven
in Everett WA (NA,yada,yada, but MAN, they make a good kit.)

Anyway, I'm moving into all-grain, and they've got a package deal
on a pH meter and a refractometer which looks pretty good, price-wise.
($160 for both.)

Now, a pH meter is obviously useful for mash pH and water testing.

Refractometers are a little more of a mystery, though.

I understand the idea behind them - they measure sugar content in
%Brix, and I can see where one would be useful in two places -
seeing the rise in sugar levels in the mash, and the fall during
fermentation.

But how does a refractometer relate to S.G./hydrometer readings?
Is there a direct correlation (X.X % Brix = Y.YYY S.G.)?
Or is it more complex than that? I can't find any references to
its use in what books I have handy (Miller, Papazian, and Marty Nachel's 
"Homebrewing for Dummies").

In short, given that I'm an intermediate brewer, is buying this
thing worth my time? Particularly considering I can make 4 or 5
batches for what this thing will cost?

Suggestions/comments are welcome here or via private email - I'll
summarize later.

Thanks for the help -

Richard T. Perry
perryrt at hotmail.com
Kwajalein, Republic of the Marshall Islands
8 deg 44.22 N, 167 deg 44.39E
[6725.8, 289] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:48:20 EST
From: SLHMJL at aol.com
Subject: bottled porter carbonation

Greetings all,
I have been kegging homebrew for a while, but recently tried my first bottled 
batch.  I brewed up a batch of porter, fermented in primary and secondary, 
and bottled it in EZ-Cap bottles.  I used Primetabs at an English Ale rate.  
I put 3 tabs in a 16oz bottle, and 6 in a litre.  I opened the first bottle 
last night, after two weeks of conditioning, and it is somewhat flat.  The 
taste is OK, but it needs a little bit more carbonation.

Are there any tricks to rescue the brew in this situation?  Can a person 
carefully "recharge" the bottles with more yeast/sugar?  Please let me know 
if you have run into this situation.

Thanks.
Sid H.
Fargo, ND


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