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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Clear Bottles ("David Craft")
  refractometers and S.G. ("Christopher T. Ivey")
  RE: Wort recirculation thru CFC ("Steve Jones")
  Re: Brix to SG Conversion ("Dave and Joan King")
  re: Yeast Reproduction Limit? (Bill Tobler)
  Old Potrero Rye "Whiskey" ("David Craft")
  Sample No Sparge Calculation (Or too many spirits over New Year?) (arriolal)
  Target Gravity ("gmc")


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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:45:56 -0600
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Clear Bottles

Greetings,

I have more Mead than I have bottles, Help!

Can anyone direct me to a supplier of clear 12 and 22 oz crown cap bottles?
I have checked the usual sites of homebrew suppliers...........Amber is all
they carry.  You may respond directly if you wish.

Happy New Year,

 David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:16:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher T. Ivey" <cti3c at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: refractometers and S.G.

Brewmeisters,

Another consideration to bear in mind when using refractometers based on
the BRIX scale is that the index measures percent sugar in sucrose
equivalents.  Wort and beer is composed of many types of sugars, not just
sucrose.  Miscellaneous amino acids, yeast cells, hop residues, etc.
will also influence the refractive index of the solution and introduce
further measurement error.  As a relative measurement (i.e., before vs.
after) to estimate alcohol content in the finished beer, this error is
likely to be insignificant in most cases.  Absolute estimates of specific
gravity based on conversions from refractometer readings, however, may
require more cautious interpretation.

Cheers,
Chris




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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:27:23 -0500
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: RE: Wort recirculation thru CFC

Steve Alexander wrote:

>I don't understand when Steve Jones writes ...
>>I pitched the yeast and continued
>>to chill down to 65F. Then I diverted the wort to
the
>>fermenters. I must comment that this worked out very
>>well, as I was able to run the valves wide open,
>>and the wort was crystal clear.
>
>Crystal clear pitched wort ?!!?  Yeast will cloud
wort
>immediately and ...

Well, maybe 'crystal' clear was a poor choice of
terms,
but the pitched wort going into the fermenter was
definitely
clearer than unpitched wort from previous batches
where
I didn't recirculate the wort the entire time it was
chilling.

I'm not sure I agree with the statement:
>...  The wort can't be clear of cold break
particulate either.

I believe that the break material was filtered out by
the false
bottom / whole hop bed. Obviously the yeast was not,
since
primary fermentation completed in 5 days. In addition,
the
sediment in the primary was cleaner than most, if not
all, of
my previous batches (68) on this system.


Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
stjones1 at chartertn.net
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:40:56 -0500
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Brix to SG Conversion

Yesterday I just did a  bunch of research on the web before seeing AJ's
append, and came up with the same values, from these sources;

1 - From http://www.ertco.com/hydrometer_conversion_tables.html
2 - From http://www.stpats.com/design.htm 12/30/2001
3 - from  http://www.honeyflowfarm.com/conversionchart.htm has chart with
1/2 Brix increments.
4 - From Mr. Wizard at http://byo.com/mrwizard/730.html
        {Plato/(258.6-([Plato/258.2]*227.1)}+1 = Specific gravity

5 - From AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> on HomeBrew Digest 1/1/2002.
        S = 1 + P/(258.6 - 0.8796P)

Ref. 1, 3, 4 & 5 agree very well, so I used formula from #4, since I hadn't
seen AJ's when I did my spread sheet.  Ref. #2 was a good bit different at
higher gravities.  I calibrated my new Refractometer at 60 F, and did a
bunch of readings of sweet and hopped wort, with agreement no different that
0.001 S.G., compared to my hydrometer.  I'm a hoppy Geek!

      Dave King (BIER)




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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:49:35 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: re: Yeast Reproduction Limit?

Steve, that was a great post.  Very informative.  I just brewed a wee-heavy,
OG was 1080, 5 gallons.  I made a qt starter, but got a late start and
didn't make it till the night before brew day.  It was a little cold in the
brewery that night, and the starter didn't take off very well.  I pitched it
anyway, and  aerated with O2, for 1 to 2 minutes, using a fine SS stone.
The ferment started in about 6 hours, and at 12 it was doing good.  I have
read, somewhere, that you can aerate again, especially with big beers,
12-14 hours after fermentation starts.  So I did, and a few hours later, it
was really going.  On the third day, it slowed to a crawl, and I checked the
gravity, which was 1022.  I expect a 1020 finish, and it still has 12 days
of fermenting left.  My question is, would this be a good practice to do
regular, just on big beers, or maybe not at all?  Thanks in advance, and
Happy New Year to all.

To Better Brewing
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX



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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 14:58:44 -0600
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Old Potrero Rye "Whiskey"

I have a bottle of Old Potrero from Anchor Brewing (Distilling in this
case).  It is available only in California; I was in SFO at the time. Yes it
is expensive.  I paid $60+ at a liquor store in SFO.  It is 120+ proof and
since liquor is taxed on the proof, that makes it more.  You can drink less
by cutting with more water.............It has a wonderfully smooth rye
flavor.  There is nothing like it.  I hope my bottle lasts!

It is called a spirit on the label as it is not a whiskey or bourbon.  Those
"appellations" require a certain amount of corn or barely in the mash.
Perhaps someone from Ky or Tn could enlighten us on this.

The recipe is based on what the early colonists would have distilled, an all
rye mash, distilled, and aged in "toasted" barrels for only a year or two.
Patience was not a virtue then!  The toasted versus the charred or port
barrels imparts a lighter color and in my opinion a slightly sweet taste.

Fritz, you done good.

Happy New Year,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:31:21 GMT
From: <arriolal at cs.wnmu.edu>
Subject: Sample No Sparge Calculation (Or too many spirits over New Year?)

Having way more time on my hands over the New Year festivities
than I should, I started thinking about how to formulate an all grain, 
no sparge recipe, given that I know the amount of volume and the OG 
that needs to be collected in the boiling kettle. I also wanted
to derive the formulas without reference to a ``standard recipe''
that would be scaled up.

I would like to ask the HBD community to check the following
example for any seemingly obvious flaws. If the numbers seem
reasonable, (and I haven't made a complete fool of myself!)
then in my next post, I will provide what I think is a general derivation.

Suppose that we will need to have 15.5 gallons (run off, in the
boiling kettle, before boiling)  at  1.0465 OG. The runoff will be
from a no sparge draining of the mash/lauter tun.

Now some assumptions:
	
	Each lb of grain has a potential extract of say 38 pts.

	In whatever fixed mashing method we use, (infusion,
	step infusion, decoction) we ultimately obtain some repeatable
	% of the 38 pts, say E (e.g. E = .70, .75, .80, etc.)
	Please note: this value is what occurs due to the mashing
        method, and not what is collected in a sparge. This
	value is specific to the brewers' equipment, mashing method,
	degree of grind, etc. For the following example, assume
	E = .80 (Being somewhat optimistic!)

	Each lb of grain retains approximately k_abs = .13 gallons/lb. 
	In other words, in a pure, no sparge, this amount of liquid
	is unobtainable to us.

	In a no sparge runoff, we assume (incorrectly of course)
	that there are no losses due to having deadspace under the
	screen/manifold, etc. (Sure!)

With these assumptions, I claim that in order to obtain 15.5 gallons
 at  1.0465 OG, with a pure no sparge will require approximately

	29.6 lb of grain

	Total mash thickness of 2.615 qts/lb (For example, if your
	usual infusion ratio is 1.5 qts/ lb, use that amount and at the
	end of conversion add 2.615 - 1.5 = 1.115qts/lb to the mash, stir
	and give a sufficient time to mix)

Let us now verify that

1) No sparge volume of run off is approximately 15.5 gallons

2) The OG is approximately 1.0465

To show 1), consider the following:

	The total amount of H_2 O added to the mash/lauter tun is
	approximately

		(29.6)*(2.615) = 77.404 qts or 19.351 gallons

	The amount of H_2 O trapped in the grain (and therefore
	unobtainable) is approximately

		(.13)*(29.6) = 3.848 gallons

	The difference

		19.351 - 3.848 = 15.503

	is what is obtainable in a pure no sparge run off  (Recall that 
        we assume that all of this is collected, in which case we are ignoring  
        losses via space under the mash/lauter  screen/manifold, etc.)

Next, how do we know that the specific gravity is 1.0465? To show this,
consider that the total converted points in the mash/lauter tun is
approxiametly

	(29.6)*(38)*(.80) = 899.84 pts

The GU ratio is

	Total pts/Total H-2 O volume = 899.84/19.351 = 46.5

in which case the gravity in the mash/lauter tun is 1.0465.
Assuming a no sparge run off, the gravity of the run off is
the same as the mash/lauter tun, and therefore the volume
of the run off is approximately 15.5 gallons with OG of
approximately 1.0465.

Please note: I have not made clear (purposely since if I'm
wrong, no need to bother anyone with how I got these values!)
where 29.6 lbs and 2.615 qts/lb came from.

Clearly, different home breweries will have different conversion
efficiencies, etc.. However, my question to the HBD community is,
if these assumptions are taken, then are the above calculations
correct? (or have I had too many spirits over New Years?)

Thanks

Leon Arriola
(With way too much time over New Years!)
Silver City, NM





- ---------------------------------------------
Western New Mexico
University




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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:19:57 -0600
From: "gmc" <gmc at setel.com>
Subject: Target Gravity

I will toss this one out there to see if anyone else had similar thoughts on
measuring boil-off, or even tried something of the sort to accurately
measure the loss of volume during the boil.

 If my calculations are correct, +/- a half gallon can move the old
hydrometer a couple of points either way. Although this may sound trivial to
some, a couple points here and a couple points there seems to add up to
something other than what I intended.

I have read about folks using measuring sticks, or whatever you call it, to
measure fluid levels during the boil. With the idea that the density of
water changes during the boil makes this whole idea just a little subjective
to me. I won't get into an area I know nothing about trying to calculate
densities of water at certain temperatures because It doesn't seem relevant
once the liquid has cooled. What is important is how much is left when it
comes time to fill the carboy, right?

I do a 10 gallon batch and this has posed a problem for me. It would be nice
to know exactly how much volume is being boiled away so I can stop or go a
little longer with boil if needed.

Has anyone thought about collecting the steam during the boil and condensing
it back into some measurable volume/weight?

If so, how'd you do it. And if not, is there any ideas out there on how to
do it. Is it possible that I am all wet here? Or should I say steamed.
Should I let this idea evaporate or is it worth pursuing.

Any comments are deeply appreciated.

Cheers!!!
gmc






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