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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling (John Schnupp)
  Re: More Klein (Todd Goodman)
  RE: Klein Man, The Kleinerator, doing the beer thing... ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re:what's the cause (Phil Wilcox)
  Re: Benefits of an AHA Membership? ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling (Charles.Burry)
  carbonator type cap design ("Patrick Finerty Jr.")
  Stepping up a starter (Chris Knight)
  RE: Bubbling Carboy (Bob Sheck)
  How Did You Start All-Grain? (D/A Wenger)
  Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling (D/A Wenger)


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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:33:35 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling

From: "D. Butler-Ehle" <ulfin at portup.com>
>When I guestimate that it has enough, I shut off the gas, give it
>a final good shake (to ensure that the head pressure has reached
>equillibrium), let it settle for a few minutes (to reduce foaming
>due to turbidity and to allow incidental liquid to clear from the gas
>plug's draw tube), then check it with my pressure gauge(*).

Then at the end lists the parts required to build a pressure gauge.  

What I have done is to use a metal valve stem and attach it to the
lid of my kegs.  Here is a picture:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~johnschnupp/keglid.jpg
You need to keep the valve centered in the lid as much as possible 
so that it does not interfere with installing the lid.  You can
then use a tire pressure gauge to check the pressure.  Don't use
one of those el-cheapo slide stick ones, IMO they suck.  Use one
with an actual pressure gauge. 

You can also use the same valve to make your own carbonation caps.

You will need to add an air chuck (the auto parts store name of the
thing to used to fill tires).  They usually have NPT fitting
threads.  If you are with me this far it should be pretty easy.  

I am just offering another way to monitor the pressure in the keg.
One thing I like is that I can double check the keg pressure against
the regulator pressure without having to make any extra connections 

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:29:19 -0500
From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: More Klein

> > From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
> > Subject: Who is this guy?
> > 
> > Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
> > 
> > I received the 365 Bottles of Beer calendar. It's rather 
> > entertaining, particular the prose describing the beers. So, 
> > who is Bob Klein? Anybody have any comments?

And here I thought he had developed the Klein bottle packaging for beer.

It's perfect for packaging those mega lagers.  Indefinate shelf life.
No skunking.  Tastes the same as usual, but non-filling.

http://www.math.rochester.edu/misc/klein-bottle.html
http://www.kleinbottle.com/

Todd Goodman
Brewing in Westford, MA
No Rennerian Coordinates cause I can't find the link to the
calculators (Is it in the Brewery.org links section?)


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Date: 14 Jan 2002 06:14:38 -0800
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Klein Man, The Kleinerator, doing the beer thing...

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:14:38 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed



In HBD #3837, Brian Lundeen wrote:
>Now, I'm sure Joel Plutchak is going to slap me upside the head for
>suggesting this, but if you really want to have some fun, go trolling >in 
>rec.food.drink.beer with a comment like, "Wow, has anyone read Bob >Klein's 
>beer reviews? They're awesome!" You'll see a knee jerk >reaction that makes 
>political correctness seem like a Cheech and >Chong road trip.

   Indeed, in rfdb there's a long history of Klein-bashing.
His reviews are held up to general scorn and amusement, and
at one point their wretchedness was the only thing every
single contributor to the newsgroup could agree upon.  Where
else would we get such Kleinisms as "mid-bottle" and "bold
yet subtle?"
   Yes, you'd get a reaction.  It'd be more fun than a barratry
of homebrew shop monkeys.
- --
Joel Plutchak
Honorary Howling Savage in East-Central Illinois



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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:36:37 -0500
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Re:what's the cause

Andy woods asked about his dark Heine clone...

>It has been conditioning for 3 weeks, and like I said,
>is very bland, similiar to a stale soda.


Sounds like a perfect clone to me!!!!! ;<)

phil wilcox



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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:39:21 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Re: Benefits of an AHA Membership?

Jim Liddil was good enough to point out...

>Uh, the AHA did not create this digest, and almost killed it.  Check the
>archives.

In addition, I think that the AHA has largely benefited from this digest.
There are now a number of board members who are also active participants in
the HBD.  I also feel that some of the technical content of Zymurgy has
improved through the knowlege shared in this forum.  While that may be a
"chicken or the egg" debate, one cannot dispute that, overall, the
homebrewing community had has made great strides from the "boil and stir"
homebrew days of yore.  This would not have been possible without the
support of the AHA and forums such as the HBD.

Unfortunately I have let my AHA membership lapse and should consider joining
again.  But that's not because I want to go to any beer festivals, national
competitions, join any clubs or the like.  I don't participate in those kind
of things.  But that's my loss - right?  Zymurgy may well be a good read,
but I can find a lot of things right here *AND* the HBD is interactive.
When I reinstate my membership it will not be for any reason, but to support
and advance the homebrewing community.

As for Jim's comment...
> WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They're going to have to pry my cold, dead fingers from my bottle of
homebrew...  ;-)

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush





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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:00:42 -0600
From: Charles.Burry at ercgroup.com
Subject:  Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling

Someone once pointed out that it is preferable to attach the gas line to the
OUT side of your soda keg during shaking.  This way the gas is being forced
in to the bottom of the solution and, hopefully, will be absorbed on it's
way up towards the headspace.  Plus there appears to be less chance of
splashing beer back in to your gas line.  This method seems to work OK for
me.  

 Charlie Burry
 
 


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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:04:14 -0500
From: "Patrick Finerty Jr." <pjf at finerty.net>
Subject: carbonator type cap design

Hi folks,

This weekend I finally found a way to make a carbonator type cap for
2 L pop bottles that is easy and cheap (like me). I really like the
easy part as it's no fun waiting for something like silicone sealant
to cure when you can have an instant cap!

I purchased two bicycle tubes with 'presta' style valves (NOT the kind
that are on your car). These are nice because they are narrow and
threaded all the way to the base and come with a little metal
retaining nut that can be screwed down the shaft to hold the valve in
place after installation. Additionally, a bottle fitted with one of
these can easily be pressurized using only a small tube that fits over
the valve since the pin that allows a gas to enter the valve sticks
above the stem (it's not recessed like with schrader valves) so no
special pump fitting is required.

At the base of the valve the tube has a circle of reinforced rubber. I
took some scissors and cut out this region of the rubber with the
valve. It also had to be further trimmed to fit easily into the cap of
the bottle. You don't want any more rubber than is necessary or the
cap won't screw on enough to ensure it will not pop off due to the
high pressure it will soon experience.

Using a small metal rod heated with a propane torch, I melted a hole
through the cap that just accommodated the valve stem. I removed the
inner plastic seal that is normally found in the cap as this isn't
necessary since we have a nice rubber gasket (from the valve) and that
extra piece of plastic just takes up space.

Anyway, I don't know about the suitability of an inner tube for food
(probably not the best) but when the bottle is upright it's mostly not
in contact with the beer and doesn't smell or taste bad so I'm not
worried. It's certainly better than the car tire valves I bought in an
earlier attempt and that had probably the most foul and nauseating
odor I have experienced from a piece of rubber.

Cost:  1 tube: $4.00 CDN
       bottle: $1.50 CDN
         time: ~10 min

Hope this helps you all! I'll try to get some pictures online soon.


For the search engines: valve carbonator-like carbonator tube tire beer
pressure carbonate CO2 pop soda bottle 2 L 2L schrader presta 

 -patrick

- -- 
Patrick J. Finerty, Jr., Ph.D.
Forman-Kay Laboratory
Hospital for Sick Children
Toronto, ON, Canada
http://finerty.net/pjf


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Date: 14 Jan 2002 14:55:27 -0800
From: Chris Knight <knight at hypergolic.com>
Subject: Stepping up a starter

I'm getting ready to brew an all-grain Oktoberfest this weekend and I'm
planning on stepping up my White Labs vial to a larger quantity.

In the past I've single stepped the culture using a 1000 ml flask and then
pitching the White Labs vial directly into the starter wort after cooling.

When stepping more then once I can think of two ways to do it:

1.
Prepare 1st step (about 900 ml) and pitch White Labs vial.
Ferment in a 1 gallon jug for a day.
Prepare another 900 ml starter wort and pitch into the 1 gallon jug which
already contains the 1st step.

2.
Prepare 1st step and pitch White Labs vial.
Ferment in a 1 gallon jug for a day.
Prepare another 900 ml starter wort, but inoculate with some solution from
the previous day starter.
Ferment 2nd step separately in flask and then combine with 1st step.

In the 1st method, the yeast that reproduced in the 1st step will ferment
the 2nd step starter wort.  In the 2nd method, the starter wort volume is
inoculated with approximately the same amount of yeast as the first step.

Obviously, the goal of the starter is to multiply the yeast, not to make
beer.  Question is, which method results in a larger healthier yeast
population?

Am I being silly?  Does it matter?

Chris Knight




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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:52:41 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE: Bubbling Carboy

Zee Polize vill be at yer dour any minit nowz!

Vee have Bloh off, und gunz und high eggsplosives, und zee
testimony of yur child, so you vill be found guilty under zees
new terrorist lawz zee governimt haz made!

Relexen, don vorry, haff a haus-brau, vee vill be comink for you
zoon!

Signed:
Johann AssCrofffffft!



>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:24:22 -0500
>From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
>Subject: Bubbling Carboy  
>
>Greetings,
>
>My son (8 years old) has always been 
>somewhat interested in my brewing.
>
>He was facinated by the gunk that comes out of the 
>tube!  Sounds like a good science experiment to 
>me!  I am not sure the school officials would
>appreciate the result though!
>Regards,
>
>
>David B. Craft

Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC
bsheck at skantech.net // [583.2,140.6] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:55:42 -0600
From: D/A Wenger <dkw at execpc.com>
Subject: How Did You Start All-Grain?

I'm going to do it. I'm leaping into all-grain brewing. Anyone seen my 
swim trunks?

I'm a gadget head, see. And I've been sketching out this spiff all-grain 
system for some time now. Sketching, reading, sketching, more reading. 
And I've built nothing -- which is probably a good idea since I have no 
idea how to really *do* an all-grain batch.

See, when I was 16 I bought and built this really expensive 
radio-controlled car, but never played with the darn thing. It was 
enough fun to build it. But this time, my wife would kill me if I took 
over the basement with sweated copper piping just for the sake of 
sweating the copper.

So I'm going to get a 5 gallon plastic bucket to put in my old bottling 
bucket, drill a bunch of holes, find my old sleeping bag and tea kettle, 
and mash/lauter a 3-gallon or so batch with that. Just so I get the 
sense that I *like* all-grain brewing.

So what I'm asking the collective, is to wax historical on *your* first 
all-grain system. What was your first setup? Did it work? What is your 
advice for a super cheap, relatively simple, but somewhat effective AG 
system?


Dan Wenger
Hartland, Wisconsin
[237.6, 284.3] Apparent





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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:01:22 -0600
From: D/A Wenger <dkw at execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling

In our last episode, "D. Butler-Ehle" <ulfin at portup.com> described 
his stopcock arrangement on his corny gas in line. 

I like it. If applied to the beer out line, he could play with his 
stopcock (sorry) to restrict the out flow -- therefore allowing the 
corny to stay at higher carbonation pressure while serving. Voila, 
no more depressurizing the keg.

Add it to the list and off to Home Depot...

Dan Wenger
Hartland, Wisconsin
[237.6, 284.3] Apparent  














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