HOMEBREW Digest #3849 Sat 26 January 2002

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  re: oxyclean as a sanitizer? (LJ Vitt)
  Re: pulling your leg ("Kurt Schweter")
  First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for entries! ("John B. Doherty")
  Re: To shake or not to shake, that is the question (Larry Bristol)
  Re: Oxyclean as a Sanitizer (Brew By You Info)
  Tired of All-Grain, extract brews ("Audie Kennedy")
  bt: what a crock ("Robin Griller")
  Re: Pale Ale experiment (Spencer W Thomas)
  RE: BT and all that jazz (Beaverplt)
  Subject: NPT Nuts (GASNER)
  drop the BT thread/oatmeal stout (Emily E Neufeld)
  RIMS heating chamber ("marc_hawley")
  Oxyclean as a sanitizer? (Al Klein)
  Re: Extract Brews, kits? (Al Klein)
  Re: Carboys (Al Klein)
  FW:  Recovering Gambler Needs Enzyme Help ("Bates, Floyd G")
  candi-sugar (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Back Issues of Brewing Techniques (ksc58)
  dark grain use ("Micah Millspaw")
  new propane law ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:   Carboys... (Peter Torgrimson)
  Re: Carboys... (Jeff Renner)
  Green Beer / Pale Ale Experiment (David Harsh)
  Re:best all around grain/storage... (Kelly Grigg)
  Good beer bar in New Orleans (Stroud Steve)
  Do You Scoop? ("Cindy & Walt")
  Bad brew days (GordonRick)
  RE: diluted IBU, no-boil kits, wasted money, force carbs, step ma (Brian Lundeen)
  Homebrew Clubs in the surrounding Flint area? (Chad Holley)
  soda fountains ("Scott Basil")
  Hop aroma (DHinrichs)
  Minimal Allgrain Setup? (Steven S)
  Hop Character (mohrstrom)
  Re: RIMS Heater control (Tony Verhulst)
  Whirlygiggles (Carl Schulze)
  Whirlygigs, One More Time ("Kirk Fleming")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:47:11 -0800 (PST) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: re: oxyclean as a sanitizer? In HBD#3847 , Dave asked about oxyclean > Hello all. I am a new poster so please forgive any novice errors. > recently noticed a product called "Oxyclean" intended for stain removal, > and general cleaner. The listed ingredients were Sodium Percarbonates and > Sodium Carbonates. I was thinking these were the same ingredients for > "one-step" sanitizer. I was wondering if the "oxyclean" would be suitable to > use for cleaning and sanitizing my brew equipment. > Many Thanks, > Dave Darity Dave the problem I see...IMHO One-step is not a suitable sanitizer. I tried it several years ago, and produced a string of infected beers. I corrected that by switching to Iodophor. Other brewers tell me they do fine with one-step. However, I remember one who claimed that and I tried his beer. It too had an infection, just not a obvious as mine. I remember a Zymurgy article on sanitizers that described one-step as a cleaner, not a sanitizer. Leo Vitt Rochester MN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:02:35 -0500 From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com> Subject: Re: pulling your leg you got it, tried to fuel the fire, realizing it would be a stretch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:12:30 -0800 (PST) From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com> Subject: First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for entries! Fellow Beer Enthusiasts, It is now official that the Boston Homebrew Competition on Saturday, February 9th, 2002 will be the first MCAB5 Qualifying Event of 2002. The entry deadline is Friday February 1st, so that's one week for those of you who want a first crack at MCAB5. Last Call!!! Full info can be found at http://www.wort.org/bhc.html Look for the BOS results to be posted here and the full results to be posted on the website above on the day after the competition. Cheers, -John Doherty Boston Wort Processors Boston Homebrew Competition Organizer dohertybrewing at yahoo.com www.wort.org/bhc.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: Larry Bristol <larryjbristol at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: To shake or not to shake, that is the question - --- Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> wrote: > I think you've missed an important point, at least in then way I do > this. While I start with high pressure (as high as 35 psi), I have > learned to judge how close to my target I am getting by the speed at > which the gas bubbles in. Then I will turn the pressure down, again > to judge the speed of the bubbles. If I judge that I am still a ways > from my target, I'll jack the pressure back up. If it bubbles > slowly, I'll keep the pressure lower, but still above target to speed > things up. Then as I get close to target carbonation, I'll turn the > pressure to the target. > > So if my target is, say, 12 psi at 45 deg F, I'll > go right), bubbling the very last CO2 at exactly that. Voila! The > equilibrium that you seek, achieved in less than a half hour. > > Of course, there have been a few times when I overshot my target and > had to vent excess gas or put up with foamy beer. But usually I hit > it about right. > > Still, I'd rather not rush things and just let time do its thing. > But it's nice to have a method when time is short. > > jeff > -- That makes sense to me. I think my statement "... your keg of beer is not in a state of equilibrium... it will change over time" is correct, but it now sounds more ominous than I intended. As you demonstrate, it is possible to control the process so that the conditions in the keg are fairly close to the conditions that you would get using the slow way. I doubt they could be an exact match, but that is not really very important. OK, yes, the beer will change over time, but the closer you come to hitting your target, the less significant that change will be. So, like almost everything, it depends. I prefer to do carbonation the slow way. It sounds like you do, also. And it is nice to know there is an alternative that can be used when time is short. I just hope I never get enough practice shaking such that I learn to match the slow way. <grin> Larry Bristol Bellville, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:26:09 -0500 From: Brew By You Info <info at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: Oxyclean as a Sanitizer Dave Darity asks about Oxyclean as a sanitizer. Dave, this is interesting to me, because I recently had somebody tell me they use One Step the same way as Oxyclean. This guy told me he put a stained straining bag - you know the ones you use for sparging or that winemakers use when crushing fruit - into a plastic bag with some One Step, and it came out completely clean and white, like new. So it seems they work the same as far as cleaning goes. One step also claims to be a sanitizer, though, as well as a cleaner. Oxyclean seems to be sold exclusively as a cleaner. I don't know if they make any claims regarding sanitation. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:07:03 -0500 From: "Audie Kennedy" <audiefr at hotmail.com> Subject: Tired of All-Grain, extract brews On the subject of partial mash, the best brews I have produced so far have been partial mash kits I got from More Beer (no affiliation, etc.) and I have not been able yet to brew all-grain that is as good, probably a problem in my mashing techniques, which are improving. As to the no-boil kits, I did produce a good brew without boiling extract, and it wasn't one of the "new" kits. I just wanted to try it to see if it would work, and it did, but the most important reason to boil extract is sanitation. Boiling will help keep the "nasties" out of your brew. And don't follow the instructions that come with the kits! Throw the instructions away! When I got started, I used the sugar the instructions called for, and always got "cidery" beer, which almost made me give up the hobby. After I learned to extract brew with all-extract, my beer improved dramatically. After that, I only used sugar for bottling. After getting my Corny Keg setup, I don't use bottles, except for taking some brew over to a friend's house, or giving some away, so now my beer has no sugar, unless I add a small amount to increase the alcohol content, but I don't normally do that. I have also added rice to my recipes as an experiment, and cannot detect any contribution to the flavor. I admit I don't have a judge's taste buds either (smoking for 30 years). Audie Kennedy Wise, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:08:58 -0500 From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net> Subject: bt: what a crock Hi all In a post that looks slanderous, Peter says, "Steve Mallory, a failed business man who ripped lots of people, me included" and continues, "Mallory, like the big guys at Enron, went home with his pockets full." Let me see, the guy loses his business, his means of making a living, but according to Peter he 'went home with his pockets full." And he wonders why we are defending a person against his petty nastiness. Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:44:27 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Pale Ale experiment (I'm happy to be participate in a thread that hopefully will not engender flaming responses!) Why all the differences? We saw very similar differences in the "HBD Palexperiment" here. Simply put, each participant has his or her own unique equipment, process, and environment. It's not at all surprising to me that the end results differ. For example, I brew on my stove top, and in consequence have difficulty reaching a very strong boil. Probably my hop utilization suffers from this. You ask about the lack of hop aroma. I can think of at least 2 factors that would affect this: 1. Cooling process. Different chillers will take different amounts of time to chill the wort. This will affect the amount of hop aroma that remains in the beer. 2. Oxidation. One of the things that oxidation of the finished beer can do is to kill hop aroma. I can't tell from your message how long after finishing the beers you waited before tasting, so I'm not sure how significant this effect might be. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:00:09 -0800 (PST) From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: BT and all that jazz Peter writes "I really don't understand why so many of you are defending Steve Mallory, a failed business man who ripped lots of people, me included. I responded to an advertisement in BT and renewed my subscription for 2 years. A month later, they were belly up. Undoubtedly, Mallory knew of the poor financials of BT and of its imminent demise but kept this a secret and sought the money of new subscribers anyway. Sounds a bit like the big guys at Enron, who promoted the company when they knew of its imminent collapse. Mallory, like the big guys at Enron, went home with his pockets full. BTW, anyone who wants to throw some money at businesses that will fail, please let me know. I'm always in need of some extra cash and shouldn't have too much trouble starting a business that will fail." Peter obviously is not, has never been, nor will ever be a business owner. While I nor any of us will ever know exactly why Mallory went under, it's foolish to think that they would sabotoge their business by warning people that their business is failing. Talk about making sure it will happen! Most likely they were doing their damnedest to save their business right up until the end. I certainly understand your anger and frustration. But to lash out and accuse these people of purposely misleading you is just plain ignorant. To compare these people to Enron is slanderous and irresposible. If you believe you were a victim of fraud, seek legal recourse. Otherise, this is not the forum for this kind of trash. ===== Jerry "Beaver" Pelt That's my story and I'm sticking to it Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:10:59 EST From: GASNER at aol.com Subject: Subject: NPT Nuts Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:49:11 -0800 From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com> Subject: NPT Nuts Hmmmmm. If memory serves, NPT stands for Normal Pipe Thread. (National Pipe Thread???) They are tapered in diameter from start to end, thus, when a pipe is started into a coupling it is very loose at first, but finally the tapers fit tightly, then another half turn with a large wrench deforms the metal to a pretty tight fit. The plumbers goop on the thread seals the remaining crevices. A nut on a bolt on your (older) car would be NC or NF for National Coarse or National Fine. The bolt on the car would be constant diameter the full length, hence the nut can be run up or down the full length without ever getting tight (until it 'hits the wall'). This would not allow for a seal of the threads and water would leak through. NC and NF are not metric. They are the older English system used in the USA and elsewhere. They are NOT the English system 'Whitworth' as used by the English on parts of my old Triumph TR2. (Sigh, . . . knock off hubs/wire wheels roadster. 1954 was a very good year for Brit cars.) Earl L. Gasner gasner at aol.com P.S. God (or a European) only knows what a metric pipe thread would be called. (:-) >A couple of people mentioned difficulty locating 1/2" NPT nuts for making up bulkhead fittings. Any well-stocked plumbing supply should stock these in brass. Reason being that they are used on nearly every conventional faucet set. The portion of the typical 4" centerset (like a lavatory or bar sink faucet) that sticks down through the countertop are threaded 1/2" NPT, and these same nuts are what hold the faucet in place. >Kent Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:46:04 -0600 From: Emily E Neufeld <eneufeld at juno.com> Subject: drop the BT thread/oatmeal stout Let us get back to discussing brewing. Yeah, I lost a good part of my subscription too, and wasn't able to get any back issues. I think Steve Mallory did his best, and probably never made much while BT was successful, and lost his shirt when it failed. Comparing Steve Mallory to Ken Lay is ludicrous. Now for brewing: what is the recommended amount of oats for an oatmeal stout? I used about a 1lb in an 11.25lb grain bill. It has the silkiness of the oats but could use more of the aroma. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:07:16 -0600 From: "marc_hawley" <marc_hawley at msn.com> Subject: RIMS heating chamber The question was: > Quick RIMS question: anyone out there using the RIMS heater chamber and > heater element from Moving Brews? If so, do you run the heater at 120 or > 240 V? How do you control the heater (other than on/off)? I am using the Moving Brews heater chamber with the recommended low watt density heater. I do run it at 120 volts. It is rated at 4500 watts for 240 volts. I assume at 120 volts it would be a little over 1000 watts. (I understand these things are not quite linear.) I control it with an infinite switch of the type used to control electric range elements. This works great for my "manual" RIMS. I run it full ON to ramp between rests, then turn it back to a medium setting to maintain a temperature during a rest. The controller cycles on and off every 10 seconds or so and the outflow from the heat chamber varies only about a degree F during the cycle. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:13:49 -0500 From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net> Subject: Oxyclean as a sanitizer? Dave Darity asks about using Oxyclean as a cleaner/sanitizer: >The listed ingredients were Sodium Percarbonates and >Sodium Carbonates. I was thinking these were the same ingredients for >"one-step" sanitizer. I was wondering if the "oxyclean" would be suitable to >use for cleaning and sanitizing my brew equipment. That's what I used for my first batch (before I knew "better") and had no problems with infection. Since my second batch, however, I've been using PBW or BLC for cleaning and iodophor to sanitize. - -- Al - rukbat at optonline dot net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:13:50 -0500 From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net> Subject: Re: Extract Brews, kits? Bill Wible writes: >On a similar topic, I was wondering if anybody has noticed or >followed the recent new "no boil" trend regarding 'kit' brews >(the liquid kit cans that are pre-hopped and blended for a >certain "style"). [snip] >Anybody out there tried this? I may have to try it once as an >experiment. I have done kit brews from a can in the past - but >it was a few years ago, in my first year or two of brewing. I >always boiled the kits for at least 30 minutes, as suggested by >the experts, and added my own flavor or aroma hops. >In looking over my old brewing records, I find that I never got >a kit brew from a can that was really good. >Other experiences? My first batch was a Mr. Beer - no boil, and I didn't know why until a while later (the flavor and aroma hops) but, considering that it was probably very stale, it didn't make that bad a beer. In fact, it was quite good (for an underhopped pale ale). I've graduated to buying the ingredients I want and brewing with them, but I still have a few cans of Mr. Beer left, so I'll probably brew them no boil. But I doubt I'll be buying any more kits. - --- [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al - rukbat at optonline dot net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:13:49 -0500 From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net> Subject: Re: Carboys On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:19:20 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote: >Lastly, for handling carboys, get a milk crate. Put the carboy >in the milk crate before you fill it. The milk crate has handles, >and makes a carboy alot easier to carry and move. I built a cheap dolly out of plywood, a 2X3, 4 casters, 16 wood screws and some glue. I can wheel the carboy anywhere (except on stairs) and, if the fermentation seems to stick, I can roust the yeast without rubbing the glass on the floor. (Cut the 2X3 into 4 pieces, ~12" each. The plywood should be about 19X19X3/4. Put the carboy on the plywood and lay the 12" pieces of 2X3 down, one on each side, so they just touch the carboy. Glue them in place. [Elmer's wood glue works nicely.] Put a weight on the whole thing [another board with an empty carboy on top is enough] and leave for 24 hours. Turn over and attach one caster to each corner. If you find the scrap wood you need at Lowes or a similar store, it should cost no more than $10 or so. [If all you can find is 1/4" or 3/8" plywood, take it and glue 2 or more pieces together. One of mine is 4 1/4" sheets and I can jump on it.]) - --- [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al - rukbat at optonline dot net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:58:36 -0600 From: "Bates, Floyd G" <BatesFG at bp.com> Subject: FW: Recovering Gambler Needs Enzyme Help All: Thanks so much for the responses as of late. Mr. Renner's response in particular stirred my curiosity. Usually this gets me in trouble. However, I am hoping that I don't have to brew a Corona for this one. Here is why I chose to have a 2.5 hour mash at 140 degrees F. Since I found this on the net, I am not sure as to the validity of the argument presented below. Any thoughts from the collective? "One technique that will further cripple beta-amylase is a thin mash. Enzymes are more stable when they are latched onto their substrate (the substance they act upon), and a thin mash leaves a higher proportion of the enzymes floating around looking for their substrate. This is one of the reasons enzymes don't have a single optimum temperature. In any case, if you use a thinner mash, you will produce fewer fermentables than in a thicker mash (up to a point - you gotta have water to make wort!). If your objective is to make a very fermentable wort for a dry beer, things get a little more complex. For starters you really want beta-amylase to be a happy camper. Mash in cool, say around 140 F, and give your mash a good long hold. This will allow beta-amylase to chop up all the amylose and the tips of the amylopectin branches. This is a good start, but there are still a lot of glucose molecules tied up in amylopectin. The only way for beta-amylase to make more maltose is for alpha-amylase to "open-up" amylopectin molecules (the starch that has no branches) with a few random whacks. If you wait around long enough, alpha-amylase will start to open up amylopectin. Remember, its optimum activity is around 158 F, but it still is active at cooler temperatures, though it's much slower. As alpha-amylase opens up amylopectin, beta-amylase starts tearing into the new non-reducing mash should still be heated to around 158 F to achieve a negative iodine reaction. Bud Light is made using this type of mash profile, and the mash lasts for more than three hours. Unlike many other light beers, Bud Light wort has a low concentration of unfermentable carbohydrates and does not use exogenous enzymes (store-bought enzymes) in the process." For what it is worth, I agree with Mr. Renner. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:09:33 +0100 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: candi-sugar Hi, Mark asked (HBD 3842):"can plain table sugar be substituted for the same effect?" >From what I know, the only differance between candi sugar and plain table sugar is the crystal size. So the answer is yes if it concerns white candy and white sugar. Coloured sugar (and candi) contains impurities from the sugar source or is deliberately added. I made a page om my site about sugar (sorry in Dutch). http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/chemieensuikers.htm Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:57:47 -0500 (EST) From: ksc58 <kcada at cas.org> Subject: Back Issues of Brewing Techniques I ordered a back issue of Brewing Techniques from brewingtechniques.com on 1/16 and paid for it via PayPal. On 1/19 I received a USPS Delivery Confirmation that it had been sent and it arrived here in Ohio yesterday, 1/24. I've read a lot of grumbling here about people judging that they were ripped off and skepticism about how this back issue ordering would work, but I'm sure pleased! Ken Cada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:07:18 -0600 From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at silganmfg.com> Subject: dark grain use The use of darker grains in the mash out or sparge/lauter has some benefits of more stable melanoidin formation due to the higher temperatures at mashout and or sparge. Over the years I have found that grinding the specialty grains, black, roast, chocolate to a powder and then adding them into the mash at the time of mash out to be effective. The resulting flavours seem more 'rounded' and subtle. Also, more info can be found on melanoidins and colloidal stabilty in a old zymurgy article on beer stability written in '90 or '91 (I don't recall exactly) Micah Millspaw - brewer at large >From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu >Subject: dark grains >not capable of enlightening...but I have spoken to a good brewer at a >pub who suggested waiting with the roasted barley, ie not placing in >the mash, but instead adding it to the lauter-tun. I have tried and >think that he is correct, that is , that it renders less harsh >flavor...if that is what one wants... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:00:10 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: new propane law Jeff Renner writes of filling propane tanks: > I didn't get my tanks filled, I >must took them to one of those exchange places. The clerks were in >the dark about the differences, and I got the new ones at no cost >other than the premium you pay to exchange. What's more, they were >brand new. Now I know why I like Jeff, he's sneaky like me. I had an old tank which might not pass inspection because of it's old, cruddy valve. Rather than buy a new one, I exchanged it at the gas station for slightly more than the cost of the propane itself. No questions asked. I now have a new tank with the overfill protection which does not need to be inspected for 7 years. You can also do the same with your CO2 tank. Since I paid cash for mine, I always ask for my tank back when I get it filled. But once it comes close to the hydro test date or needs a new valve, I'm going to pull my name off of it and just exchange it. Let them absorb the cost. If only you could do this with car, house, SPOUSE... ;-) Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:28:22 -0600 From: Peter Torgrimson <petertorgrimson at prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Carboys... Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> writes: > I found nice rubber coated handles at my brew shop here that clamps onto the neck of the > carboy....makes it easy to carry around full or empty.... I also use these handles and they are great. However, I read somewhere that carrying a full carboy by the handle could cause the carboy to break at the neck. Since then, I carry it with the handle, but also support it on the bottom. I am thinking about switching to the milk crate solution after hearing about all the gruesome carboy accidents.. Does anybody have any information about this? Obviously, carrying it by the handle alone puts tremendous stress on the neck area. Peter Torgrimson Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:19:49 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Carboys... Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> wrote: >I found nice rubber coated handles at my brew shop here that clamps onto the >neck of the carboy....makes it easy to carry around full or empty.... > >I'd recommend getting one for each of your carboys....makes life MUCH >easier... I agree. Another help is a plastic milk crate for each carboy. It also makes it easier to carry and protects them from bumps. A five gallon carboy fits with some extra space; a seven gallon fits snuggly. And a warning - you shouldn't carry a full carboy by the neck handle alone - a few people have reported on HBD that the neck snapped off. I use the handle and the crate. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:29:45 -0500 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Green Beer / Pale Ale Experiment On green beer- Thanks to Jeff Renner to pointing out that no one in Ireland drinks green beer. I will confess to having been naive enough to think that breweries actually made a set quantity of green beer just for St. Patrick's day and was impressed that the bars never had any left over. But then, this was the 70s and my beers of choice were Schoenling Little Kings and Rolling Rock, so you have to consider the source. On the various beer experiments- The Bloatarians have run what we call a "Fixed Recipe Competition" for several years. The entry fee includes everything but the yeast and water - we've done both extract and all-grain versions of the competition. The resulting brews have a remarkable range of flavors - even the extract versions. The only rule is that you must use all of the ingredients supplied - the details are left to the individual brewer. This, of course, leads to a broader range of variation than would be likely from a specified brewing program, but that's part of the fun. I can recommend it as a club event - the biggest problem is getting the recipe kits available long enough ahead of time for enough people to brew. We work a deal through Listermann's retail shop so people can buy their kits when they get other supplies. Dave Harsh Cincinati, OH Bloatarian Brewing League [Too lazy to bother] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:48:00 -0600 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: Re:best all around grain/storage... How about keeping them in the freezer? I have a large chest freezer, and I keep my large bags of flour, etc. there to keep bugs out.(A problem in the deep south). But, wouldn't this work well if you have the large freezers? Kelly On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 12:14:22AM -0500, after pounding the keys randomly, Rama Roberts came up with.... > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:14:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com> > Subject: best all around pale malt/grain storage > > I imagine this is largely a matter of taste, but I'll be purchasing a > 50-55lb sack of a base malt shortly and am looking for opinions on what > would be a good choice. Something that could be used in the majority of > recipes. I'm leaning towards Maris Otter pale. > > Also, what's the consensus on how long you can store uncrushed grains > (double bagged, reasonable temperatures, etc) before degradation becomes > an issue? Two years or so? > > thanks- > Rama Roberts > San Francisco bay area - ------------------ No more Outlook.... Proudly using Mutt on Linux - ------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:17:25 -0800 (PST) From: Stroud Steve <stevegstroud at yahoo.com> Subject: Good beer bar in New Orleans dba, the great beer bar in Manhattan, has a sister bar in NO. Good draft list (including a couple of cask conditioned offerings) and a great bottled selection. See http://www.drinkgoodstuff.com/fr_beer_no.htm for the beer list and http://www.drinkgoodstuff.com/fr_info_no.htm for hours and directions Steve . Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:44:04 -0500 From: "Cindy & Walt" <walcin1 at home.com> Subject: Do You Scoop? Hello to the great collective, I am an all grain brewer (yes, with whirrygig) and like the beers I make. I'm wondering if you scoop the foam that appears on the top of the newly started boil. I typically boil for about 10 minutes prior to adding hops and remove the foam that forms. I seem to remember reading to do that somewhere. Of coarse if you FWH you can't remove that foam. Do you? If you don't, why not? Now a brief survey, if a buddy said that he just brewed up his "Smokey Porter", a really good brew, but found that the rauchmalt was buggy, would you drink it? I was done my milling and found those little buggers crawling around. Well I'm cheap! I would have had to throw away 9 pounds of malt. I didn't, I brewed. I do intend on telling anyone who may have one that it is "Buggy, Smokey Porter" tm. Thanks for your input, Walt Crowder - in Medford New Jersey (don't know my coordinates) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:52:22 EST From: GordonRick at aol.com Subject: Bad brew days Still laughing about the Kitty/Rauch/CAP episode. Makes my brew day look really relaxing. My worst experience was watching my brew kettle, with 6 or so gallons of just boiled wort, topple off of the cooker when I pulled on the garden hose connected to the immersion chiller. To borrow a phrase, "crap". The recent swing-top discussion reminded me of the trick we used to play on "newbies" when I was stationed in Bamberg with the Army in the early eighties. You would tell them that the only "cool" way to open the swing-top was to hold it by the neck with one hand and "chop" the cap off with your index and middle finger of the other hand. You would than demonstrate by cooly whacking the top aside with one swift motion. What you didn't let them see was that you were discreetly and simultainiously popping the wire bail with your thumb on the bottle holding hand. If your timing was just right, the top would pop right off as sweet as anything. Of course the newcomers efforts would be disasterous and generally accompanied by a lot of "GI language". Always good for a few laughs (and a few bruised fingers). Prost! Rick Gordon 530, 180 Ren Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:50:09 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: diluted IBU, no-boil kits, wasted money, force carbs, step ma Rodney (variant: wild) asks: > Well, I just brewed up a stout and overshot my target OG > (1065 instead of 1045). I had six gallons of wort in the > fermentor and added 3 gallons of water to bring the OG down > to 1044. My question is, how large an impact will the > addition of three gallons of water to six gallons of wort > have on the finished beer's bitterness (prediluted IBU=30)? I've always assumed a linear relationship. If I dilute my wort with 50% more water, I should end up with 50% less bittering, or 20 IBU. You've ruined your beer, throw it out. ;-) Next... Matthew Tolley writes with an Australian accent: > > Erk - you've been sucked in by the Crocodile Man, so I guess > it was only a matter of time before somebody tried to > convince you poor Americans that no-boil kits were a good idea :) IMO, true no-boil kits are a great idea. If you don't want to be a brewer. However, I only regard the high gravity worts such as Brewhouse to be no-boilers. They are simple, tasty, convenient ways to end up with beer. And you can proudly tell your friends, "I've taken up wort fermenting as a hobby". Next... Bob Barrett maligns my wasteful nature thusly: > > Mixing up 5 gallons of PBW to clean a 5 gallon or even a 6.5 > gallon carboy is a waste of PBW and money. Same thing with sanitizer. Jeez, Bob, it's not like I'm using a sparge arm. ;-) Even if I were to be buying PBW and Star San at retail prices (which I don't), that's about $2.00 and $1.30 CDN respectively for 5 gallon solutions. The Star San lasts me for weeks or months (depending on how careful I am to keep crud out) and with 5 gallons, I can just toss stuff in and submerge it for the most part. 5 gallons of PBW does a lot of cleaning for me. Not just the brew day's stuff, some kegs that need a good degunking, or giving a case or two of bottles a good soak. Again, more volume, less work for me and my scrubbing arm (which of course is already sore from not having a motorized malt mill). There are always trade-offs, and if people want to choose ease over thriftiness, or vice versa, I don't see why that should bother anyone else. Next... Double-not Renner brings up a couple of things I would like to pursue: > > So if my target is, say, 12 psi at 45 deg F, I'll end up (when things > go right), bubbling the very last CO2 at exactly that. Voila! The > equilibrium that you seek, achieved in less than a half hour. The question I wonder about with force carbonating relates not so much with getting the quantity of carbonation you desire, but the quality. When you blast the CO2 into solution over a half hour, instead of a couple weeks, do you not get the impression that the carbonation is not stable, that it will go flat more quickly in the glass? I tend to be a slow sipper, not a quaffer, so perhaps this is more of an issue for me. Over time, they should be indistinguishable, but right off the hop (sorry), I would suspect a poorer carbonation. > Mash 154F 60 minutes. Actually, though, I did a 40/60/70C mash (30 > minutes at each step) adding the corn at 60C. The 40C rest may have > helped break down beta-glucans in the barley, and passing from 40 to > 60 over 30 minutes or so effectively gave me a protein rest, which > may have made the beer clearer. Irish moss might not hurt. My question here is, when you talk about spending 30 minutes at each temp, does that include time needed to get to the next level? Or would you spend 30 minutes at 40, then another 30 minutes getting to 60, then 30 minutes there, etc etc? Is a slow ramp better than a fast one? Finally, my buddy has suffered some misfortune with his water furnace system, and the end result is he had to have a heat exchanger replaced. This thing sounds essentially like a counterflow chiller. The cooling jacket has sprung a leak, and can likely be repaired, and he believes the inner coil to be intact. The total length of tubing is about 15 feet, is that enough for use in chilling my wort? Also, the inner tubing held coolant and some kind of lubricating oil, from what he tells me. Can I expect to be able to clean this adequately enough to use for my brewing? Whoo, that was a read wasn't it. Everyone still with me, or did you all just page down upon seeing my header? Hello? Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Holley <em2hurley at yahoo.com> Subject: Homebrew Clubs in the surrounding Flint area? I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. I live in Grand Blanc, MI (close to Flint) and was wondering if anyone knew of a club close to me. I checked HBD.org and the closest one listed is Cass River club that meets up in the Saginaw area. If no one out there knows of one, any tips or suggestions from the collective on how their clubs got their start? Or, anyone in my area interested in getting together to share some knowledge and brews? Thanks in advance for any replies. Private E-mails would be fine by me. Chad Holley Grand Blanc, MI About 50 miles north of the center of the Brewing Universe Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:28:10 -0600 From: "Scott Basil" <sbasil at glasgow-ky.com> Subject: soda fountains has anybody tried to convert a used soda fountain, like the portable ones they sell coke out of at little league games? They appear similar to a draft settup, with the taps and all, but how do you deal with the water/syrup lines, etc? I can get one cheap, so it is worth a try... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:47:56 -0600 From: DHinrichs at Quannon.com Subject: Hop aroma In HBD #3848 Ray Daniels writes: >Now, hop aromas come from the volatile oils in the hops. The extent to >which the oils are dissolved and retained in the beer very much depends on >the conditions surrounding their addition---as well as subsequent handling >and processing of the beer. Too cool for too short a time and you may not >get the oils extracted from the hops. Too hot for too long and they >disappear into the atmosphere around your brewery (or as Pierre Celis once >said, "In this case it is just for the neighbors, yes?"). My question is what is a good starting point to get the hop aroma I so desperately want. Wort temp, exposure time, hop amount? Now Ray points out many other factors that can influence the final results. So to help narrow the field I will list a typical brew for to start with. German lager, 1.050 OG, Bavarian lager yeast, using noble hops, immersion chilled in about 20 minutes. Single infusion, gravity feed three tier system. Total temp controlled fermentation 58dF to start. If this question is too difficult to get answer then perhaps it could be answered another way. What should NOT be done? Or what have the collective found to be usefull? ******************************************************* * Dave Hinrichs E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com * * Quannon CAD Systems, Inc. Voice: (952) 935-3367 * * 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204 FAX: (952) 935-0409 * * Minnetonka, MN 55345 * * http://www.quannon.com/ * ******************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:01:15 -0500 (EST) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Minimal Allgrain Setup? I've been considering upgrading from my present all grain setup to something more substantial but yet take up a minimum of space. Has/Does anyone use the same vessel for mashing/boiling? Any thoughts as to the ease of this? Steven St.Laurent ::: steven at 403forbidden.net ::: 403forbidden.net [580.2, 181.4] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:56:08 -0500 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: Hop Character Ray Daniels offers on hop character variations in the Norwegian Pale Ale experiment: > "Too hot for too long and they disappear into the > atmosphere around your brewery (or as Pierre Celis > once said, "In this case it is just for the > neighbors, yes?"). Having been downwind of the Celis Brewery on many an occasion, I can say that the neighbors are not entirely unappreciative of the effect. (Come to think of it, I've never noticed the same effect around the A-B Brewery in Newark ...) Another aspect of technique that I've often pondered is the use of immersion v. counterflow chillers, and how they affect hop volatiles and utilization. This may be what Ray was getting at. At what temp does the utilization clock stop ticking? I'm toying with using dual chillers in my system - an immersion unit in the kettle, then through a CFC unit to maintain flavor and aroma, yet getting good cold break and fast/deep chilling. Anyone with knowledge out there? Egads! Could this be fodder for a 'spearmint? Mark in Kalamazoo Arhstrom Bryggeri Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:15:21 -0500 From: Tony Verhulst <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: Re: RIMS Heater control > Well, Drew, it's like this: > ...control an SSR, .... 555 timer circuit, .... PWM output between 5 and > 95% duty cycle. .... microcontroller PID .... The PWM box on the SSR works >..... my PIC16F877-based dual PID .. delta-T boosts.... max delta-T, and > usa a simple PID alg to account for heat losses during rests. > > Hence the redesign. I threw about US$50 at the problem (for a Ranco controller) and maybe another US$75 for the rest of the control panel - most of which you won't need if you run at 120VAC. See http://world.std.com/~verhulst/RIMS/panel_001.htm. Works great!! Tony V. http://world.std.com/~verhulst/RIMS/rims.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:57:48 -0500 From: Carl Schulze <carl at internetcsi.com> Subject: Whirlygiggles Hate to admit it, but the one time I did an AG without using my sparger I couldn't shake the feeling that something was terribly wrong. That "skree..skree...skree" sound is a necessary part of my brew day! Whirl On!!! Carl Schulze Kearny, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:15:20 -0800 From: "Kirk Fleming" <kirkfleming at earthlink.net> Subject: Whirlygigs, One More Time Well, I didn't mean to imply there was anything evil, wrong, or anything else inherently negative about using a sparge arm. My opinion is that their use is completely unecessary, that's all, and that if someone is having trouble with it, the most effective way to cut losses is to not use one. I've spent many, many hours doing brewing-related stuff that many other brewers would say is a total waste of time as well, yet I still chose to do it. No problem! The request was, basically, how do I get this thing to work. I merely suggested an alternative to fixing a problem is to avoid solving it altogether. That may not be the best way to 'help' someone--but my view is that if I can get my entire ensemble of brewing gear down to about 8 pieces total, I'm happier! I'll say it again--there's nothing wrong with the technique, I have nothing against the Listerman (or any other) product or its manufacturer, whatsoever, and I don't think any less of anyone who chooses to use one. A pH meter is totally unecessary for world class brewing as well, IMO. I have nothing against its use, anyone who chooses to use one, or against any manufacturers of pH meters! I have one, and use it--'cause I like to occassionally. Finally, I sincerely apologize to anyone whom I may have offended--it was a pretty strong opinion stately a little rudely!! Kirk Fleming FRSL, FRSE Return to table of contents
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