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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Stainless Steel Screen (Bob Sheck)
  Yeast For Priming ("phil sides jr")
  Heater element threads (was RIMS control) (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Heater Mounting ("Mike Pensinger")
  BT (Cynthia Pekarik)
  RE: Mallory, et al ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Batch sparging (CMEBREW)
  Where to buy beer in Austin, TX? ("H. Dowda")
  Re: oatmeal aroma (Jeff Renner)
  Do you scoop? ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: C02 regulator (Rob Dewhirst)
  BSP *is* "Metric"! (mohrstrom)
  brewing techniques and incompetence ("Robin Griller")
  Re: Carboys... (Kelly Grigg)
  Hop Isomerization Temps? (mohrstrom)
   ("Dave Darity")
  Rantings and Ravings ("Larry Bristol")
  Threads and such.... ("dennis")
  skunky beer (Marc Sedam)
  RE: Subject: How do I Krauesen my lager?? ("Frank J. Russo")
  stuck ferment (Al Beers)
  Weight Watchers ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Minneapolis pubs & stuff (Dan.Stedman)
  Re: Oxyclean as a sanitizer (Denny Conn)
  Digest Netiquette (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Acetylene regulator (Gene Collins)
  Aussie Pale Experiment (Marc Sedam)
  various responses to HBD#3850 (Marc Sedam)
  Dunkel ("David Craft")
  one-step as a sanitizer (LJ Vitt)
  re: Partial boils in microwave? (Daniel Chisholm)
  Brewed and bottled....How long will it take? ("Tray Bourgoyne")
  two cents worth of misc ("marc_hawley")


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:51:52 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: Stainless Steel Screen

I have a source for very fine stainless steel screen- 
it's about as fine as nylon hosiery.  It's about a foot wide, 
maybe longer- about 16" wide, and the length, well, it's on a roll,
so it could go on for many feet!

It's great for straining chunks of anything out of a wort or 
wine/mead.

If you want samples, contact me via private email.

My source is not expensive.


Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC
bsheck at skantech.net // [583.2,140.6] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 01:22:18 -0500
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com>
Subject: Yeast For Priming

I need to grow up some yeast to add to a few well-aged beers before
bottling.  Because of age and alcohol percentage, I am certain there is not
sufficient yeast population in these to carbonate in the bottle.  I guess
the question could also apply to lagers, in which the yeast has all been
dropped out of suspension but you want to bottle condition.  Does anyone
have a good tried-and-true method?  How much bottling yeast do you add and
which factors affect this amount?  Anyone doing it with any consistency?  I
have the ability to force carbonate but I do not want to do it for these
beers.

Phil Sides Jr
Kensington, MD
[420.7, 122.4] Rennerian




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Date: 27 Jan 2002 23:09:03 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Heater element threads (was RIMS control)

>> Drew Avis writes:

DA> I remember reading a few years ago in this very digest that the
DA> threads on electric hot water tank heater elements were 1/2", but
DA> not NPT.  Has anyone mounted one of these threaded elements in a
DA> sankey keg?  What type of coupling is required?

Actually, this is one of the few no-brainers.  The threads on most hot
water heaters are 1" with 11 threads per inch, but the threads are
straight.  If you weld a 1" female threaded fitting into the keg, that
fitting is tapered pipe thread, 1" x 11 tpi.  They usually fit
together, but you have to take the heater element with you when you
select the female pipe fitting into which it screws.  The heater
element must screw into the pipe fitting and the rubber gasket must
start to crush before the straight pipe threads of the heater element
bottom out in the tapered pipe threads of the fitting.  If you do not
fit these before welding it into the keg, you will most likely have
leaks. 

dion
- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:01:18 -0500
From: "Mike Pensinger" <Beermkr at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Heater Mounting

Drew askes about mounting heater elements in a keg.  I have done this a
couple ways.  The lates was to get a 1" CPVC coupling and hacksaw off the
"nut" part of it.  Use a holesaw to cut 1 1/18 holes for the elements and
use the gasket that comes with it.  Screw the "nut" you made onto the
element.  It will be very tight as the Element is NPS (National Pipe
Straight) and the Coupling is NPT (National Pipe Tapered).  I have 3
ehements mounted this way and have not had any problems.  I also mouned one
isn an NPT fitting on my new HERMS chamber I am building without any
problems.

Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr/
Norfolk Virginia - [551.4, 132.9] Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:24:07 -0500
From: Cynthia Pekarik <74163.1163 at compuserve.com>
Subject: BT

Hi Folks

Brewing Techniques is sadly missed in my household.

I met Steve Mallory at the Conference in New Orleans in '96. He seemed a
gentle
nice man trying to make a living out of his passion / hobby.
I look at the contribution his mag has made to my brewing reference library
and how often i go back & re-read articles.....
"Thank You Steve Mallory & BT Crew"
Magasine publishing is not the easiest way to make a buck & there are not
that many homebrewers to make customers. We are lucky that He took a
chance.
Give the man a break!

Peter A Ensiminger - What business did you run for 10 years? Bounty Hunter
inc.
You should try to brew another style other than BITTER.

Cheers
Larry Kress
RR# 2, Rockwood, Ontario, Canada


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:28:43 -0500
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: RE: Mallory, et al

Could we give this thread a rest, please? It really doesn't have a whole
heck of a lot to do with brewing beer. It's sad that people lost money, it's
sad that people feel cheated, but it's not really not even marginally
interesting to watch others throw mud all over some guy's reputation just
because <they> didn't heed the old axiom, "Let the buyer beware..." Entropy
occurs. Move on.

Now to follow my own advice...

I switched to Idophor/bleach (depending on the application) from One-Step
for my sanitizing needs and I am happier with my end product. I still use
One-Step for cleaning, but then I sanitize with the others. I noted in my
log book three batches after the switch that there was a noticeable
difference in flavor, one that I attributed to better sanitizing techniques.


Jeff


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:14:17 EST
From: CMEBREW at aol.com
Subject: Batch sparging

    After the "normal method of sparging with a hot liquor tank and sprinkler 
head, I'm now batch sparging, which allows me to add the liquor at a temp to 
achieve mash out and rest for about 10", a good time saver. It occurred to me 
that, when doing the run off with the batch sparge method, it doesn't make 
sense to do a long run off. What makes the difference? The wort in the mash 
tun, a 10 gal Gott cooler, has already gotten as much gravity as it's going 
to get, so why not just run off in 5-10", another good time saver.  Does this 
make sense to you guys, or am I wrong?


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:29:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Where to buy beer in Austin, TX?

Anyone know a place in downtown Austin (78701) with a
super selection of bottled beer?  Belgians, bocks....
Private e-mail fine. Thanks



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:46:53 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: oatmeal aroma

Glyn Crossno wrote from Estill Springs, TN

>You have to use aroma oats.  When you do this it is
>best to use noble oats.

Surely the proper oat variety to use, in the absence of one named 
Stout, is  a 1982 Purdue University release named Porter.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:07:35 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Do you scoop?

J. Renner wrote:

>I remove the dark scummy, coagulated foam, but I don't know why.  I 
>guess I just don't have anything else to do while I watch it at this 
>early stage when boilovers are most common.  After the foam stops 
>forming they are less likely, and it's generally suggested that you 
>should wait until then to add hops.

I don't know if there is or is not any benefit to doing this.  I keep the
foam as it's probably protein and it breaks down later in the boil anyway.
But what I /have/ noticed is that my FWH brews, foaming and boil over have
been reduced.  Boiling is less explosive and the foam is only a thin cover
which is easily broken.  Since I can see hop particles moving about in the
wort, I'm assuming that they are helping to bind other crud (technical term)
as well as provide a nucleation point to aid boiling.  I could also be full
of it (crud, that is) since I'm just plain old speculating.  

Has anyone else noticed this difference?  
Does anyone have an explanation?

BTW, this weekend I found that mashing efficiency will drop if you don't
have the mashtun valve closed when you mash in.  Stupid, stupid, sticky
porch...


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"I have made this letter longer than usual,
because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:26:07 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: C02 regulator


>
>Subject: CO2 regulator conversion and Airports
>
>Greetings Beer people tinkerers,
>Has anyone out there ever converted or thought about converting an acetylene
>welding regulator to use as a CO2 regulator for a kegging system?  A friend
>of mine happen to find a regulator while cleaning out his garage and passed
>it on to me; and I, having no immediate use for it in its intended purpose
>(I already have a setup.) immediately began thinking "How can I convert this
>to beer use?"  I realize I would need to change the connecting bushing to a
>CO2 tank compatible one.  Is there anything else that I'm missing in this
>adventure? TIA

I think there are three potential problems.  First, that the components 
necessary to convert would approximate the cost of a new inexpensive C02 
regulator.

The connector is different but if it's old you'll probably want to rebuild 
the regulator as well.  The gas exhaust flare fittings for acetylene are 
fairly standard -- but not the same size people use for homebrewing.  It's 
a much larger fitting.

Next, acetylene has a distinct odor and taste and the regulator may impart 
this to the beer, even in a small amount.

Finally, acetylene gets its name because it has acetone in it.  I don't 
think it's very safe to use equipment that's been in prolonged contact with 
acetone.

I'd find someone who's looking for a oxy-acetylene setup and sell them the 
regulator.  Use the funds to buy a C02 regulator.

Still, the regulator may be new in the box(?) or these may not be viewed as 
hard problems from your end.  The regulator itself should work, but people 
typically run acetylene at higher pressures than people use C02.  You may 
have a hard time getting only 1-2 psi out of a regulator usually used at 20 
psi.


>Somehow the logic escaped me. You are warned.

If you ever find logic being used for airline security, let me know as well.




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:35:40 -0500
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: BSP *is* "Metric"!

Just when you thought that  you had a grip on it ...

BSPT (aka ISO Rc - for conical) threads were adopted  into ISO Standard 7/1
as a "Metric" standard.  ISO R is more common in Asia, and in Europe you
are more likely to find ISO G forms in plumbing.  Even within the ISO
standards, there exist _several_ thread forms which may be considered
"metric".  Some, such as an M5, is kind of interchangeable with the 10-32
UNF thread - for a few turns, anyway.  In the US we refer to the "Imperial"
types as "English" because we need someone to blame...

And we're s'posed to worry about a One World Government?

I'll tell y'all about my bad brew day when traffic is slow ...


Mark (fat-fingering the ancestral name) in Kalamazoo
The Ahrstrom Bryggeri





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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:07:45 -0500
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: brewing techniques and incompetence

Hi all,

My very last comment on this nonsense:

Peter writes: "Mallory lost his business. Poor baby. The cause was his own
incompetence. Why should I sympathize with an incompetent businessman who
steals my money? It is naive to think that Mallory, having lost
his business, is personally broke. Any good accountant will
shield a client's personal assets from business assets. Rest
assured Robin, when BT went belly up, Mallory's pockets were not
empty."

I despair of trying to discuss anything with anyone who actually believes
(1) that the only possible reason for a business to fail is the boss'
incompetence, (2) that if a failed business owes anyone money, then the
owner must have 'stolen' it and (3) that just because the owner's personal
assets are shielded (a point *I* made in this discussion, but Peter thinks
he need to explain it to me!) means that the owner is loaded at the expense
of anyone owed money by the business. 

As someone pointed out, if Peter actually believes this drivel, he should
sue Mr. Mallory. If not, he should stop slandering people. Enough already. 

Robin



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:18:59 -0600
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: Carboys...

Thank you...I'd never heard of this...and, apparently, neither had my
friends here who taught me to homebrew...I'll pass this on...

Kelly

On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 12:16:11AM -0500, after pounding the keys randomly, 
Peter Torgrimson came up with....
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:28:22 -0600
> From: Peter Torgrimson <petertorgrimson at prodigy.net>
> Subject: Re:   Carboys...
> 
> 
> Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> writes:
> 
> > I found nice rubber coated handles at my brew shop here that clamps
> onto the neck of the > carboy....makes it easy to carry around full or
> empty....
> 
> I also use these handles and they are great.  However, I read somewhere
> that carrying a full carboy by the handle could cause the carboy to
> break at the neck.  Since then, I carry it with the handle, but also
> support it on the bottom.  I am thinking about switching to the milk
> crate solution after hearing about all the gruesome carboy accidents..
> 
> Does anybody have any information about this?  Obviously, carrying it by
> the handle alone puts tremendous stress on the neck area.
> 
> Peter Torgrimson
> Austin, TX

- ------------------
No more Outlook....
Proudly using Mutt on Linux
- ------------------


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:17:06 -0500
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Hop Isomerization Temps?

Thanks for all of the suggestions on retaining hop character,  I've about
got my hopback done, with the exception of the SS braid.  Down to the Farm
'n' Fleet liquidation sale (a bankruptcy with greater personal implications
than Enron's ...) for that.  Still, the question remains:

What is the "floor" temperature for hop isomerization?

 - - - - - -

Henry in Portage, MI asks about "Partial boils in microwave?"

> I'm just tired of being exiled to the
> garage during boils because of the smell,
> then spending hours outdoors in cold weather)?

Henry - suck it up and drive on.  It's 60 degrees in January at 43degN, and
you complain of the cold?  Must have something to do with the low moral
character to be associated with a cmich.edu address.  Freakin' whining
Chips, anyway #;-]


Mark (knowing that Mother Nature will even the score) in Kalamazoo



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:14:57 -0600
From: "Dave Darity" <dave at jamesbaker.com>
Subject: 

Thanks to everyone for the good input on the oxyclean.  I am using as a
"Cleaner" for my plastic.   I am still using bleach for my glass,  I am
using two buckets with different concentrations for sanitizing. 1 Tbsp per
gallon in the first bucket for a minute or two and 1/3rd tsp per gallon in
the second bucket for the rinse.  I have done this for a couple of years now
with no ill effects, at least none my palette picks up.  I am using Idaho
for the stainless steel.  Special thanks to Chris, I was planning to try the
ox clean on my kettle next. Great timing on that post Chris.

As a newsier, I would like to say thanks to the entire group.  What a great
forum.

Many Thanks,
Dave
Edmondson
1079.5, 291.1] Apparent Renner Ian



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:22:30 -0600
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Rantings and Ravings

What a beautiful weekend this was (26-27 January) here at the Double
Luck near Bellville, TX!  Clear blue skies with lows in the 40s and
highs in the low 70s.  I understand it was nice over most of the U.S. 
Where ever you were, I hope it was nice for you, also, and like me, you
were inspired me to get out there and brew up a batch.  I made 10
gallons of Larry's Bristol Cream.  [That's cream ALE, of course --- not
sherry.  More on that in a second.]


- ---CARBOYS---
With all this talk about carboys, I am surprised that I have not seen
mentioned a product that I assume is widely available in "better" 
(whatever that means) homebrew shops.  The product is a harness of
strong nylon straps that fit around a carboy and provides two heavy
duty handles.  I still use one of the neck handles during cleaning when
the weight is low and finer control is needed.  But I use the harness
when a full carboy needs to be moved.  I am sorry that I do not know
the product names, but it should not be too hard to find them.  You can
see a picture of both at:
     http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/process/fermenting.html
     http://www.doubleluck.com/$photos/P8250815.jpg
I highly recommend them (YABADABADO or whatever I am supposed to say).


- ---CO2 MEMORY---
There is no such thing.  CO2 does not know how it got dissolved. 
Assuming it is in a state or (more or less) equilibrium, it will not
act differently whether the beer was forced carbonated by shaking,
force carbonated the "slow" way, or by natural fermentation in a sealed
container.  If the temperature and pressure do not match the amount of
dissolved CO2 ...


- ---RECIRCULATION---
I have a question to pose to the collective.  After years of brewing
using gravity flow, I recently acquired a fancy brewing system that
includes a pump that can be used (among other things) for recirculating
the wort during the mash.  It normally works smoothly, but I have
encountered a problem with this a couple of times (including this last
weekend while making the cream ale).  It occurs to me that I might be
using this system incorrectly.  (Go figure.)

I seem to be getting excessive amounts of grain and husks going through
the recirculation system initially.  The grain bed typically sets up
nicely, and this is no longer a problem after a few moments, but it can
make for some unpleasantness at the start of the mash.  I am usually
concerned about getting the temperature just perfect at this time, and
do not like this distraction.  Looking back at it, the problem it
caused this weekend is humorous, but I was not amused at the time.

It seems that the grains and husks went thought the plumbing, the pump,
and the heat exchanger just fine.  But when they reached the manifold
at the top of the mash tun (a copper ring with holes to "gently"
sprinkle the liquid on top of the grain bed), it began to clog.  In
fact, it clogged all but one of the holes.  And wort was essentially
squirting thought that one hole, eroding a trench into the grain bed! 
Fortunately, I caught this in time and cleared the clogged holes.  The
grain bed then set up just fine and I got nice clear wort for the rest
of the mash and sparge.

So, the question is:  What do you do to prevent excessive grains and
husks from going through the recirculation system?  Do you start the
pump right after dough-in, or is there some secret I have not
uncovered?  I suppose I could drain liquid from the mash tun until the
runnings are clear (like I used to), but surely there is a high tech
solution to go along with this high tech recirculation thingy.

Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:29:52 -0500
From: "dennis" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Threads and such....

I've seen several posts lately on threads.  I thought I would interject my 2
cents worth on this topic.

When a thread is called out, it's usually a size (some kind of diameter), a
thread pitch (threads per inch), and a thread type or form.  For instance,
1/2 - 13 UNC is 1/2" diameter, 13 threads per inch, Unified National Coarse.
UNC threads have fewer threads per inch than UNF (F=Fine) threads.  Metric
thread callouts are different, they list a basic diameter in millimeters,
and a thread pitch in millimeters (mm/thread), like M5 x 0.8, which is
Metric (M), 5 mm diameter, and 0.8 mm per thread.

An NPT thread callout would be 1/2 - 14 NPT, which is 1/2" basic size, 14
threads per inch, National Pipe Thread.  NPT threads do not have a coarse or
fine series, so any particular NPT size always has a specific thread pitch.
Because of this, sometimes the thread callout has the thread pitch omitted
like 1" NPT, or 3/4" NPT.  All NPT threads that you will find at Home Depot
or most any catalog are tapered about 1.5 degrees (both male and female).
There is such a thing as straight pipe threads, but they usually require an
O-ring to seal.  They have the same thread pitch and thread form as the
tapered NPT threads, they just aren't tapered.  The diameter on NPT callouts
is weird, because there is nothing measurable on a 1/2" fitting that would
tell you it's 1/2".  1/2" means that it's used for 1/2" pipe which is
slightly larger than 1/2" on the inside diameter of the pipe.  A 1/2" thread
is really about 0.83 inches on the major diameter of the male thread.  So
don't get out your dial calipers and measure an NPT fitting expecting a
measurement to match the fitting size callout.

As to thread type or form, the only difference between NPT, UNC, UNF, BSP,
Whitworth, Metric, etc. is whether or not the thread is tapered, and the
actual form or shape of each thread.  Some threads are taller, some have
rounded peaks, some have squared off peaks, etc.  What happens sometimes is
that when different thread forms are close in basic size and are close in
thread pitch, they are actually interchangeable.  For example:

A #10 - 32 UNF screw and an M5 - 0.8 screw can screw into the same threaded
hole.
A 1/2" BSP and a 1/2" NPT fitting will seal in the same threaded hole.

On the issue about NPT nuts, yes, there is such a thing, even though the
male thread is tapered.  It's just that the NPT nut is threaded so that the
threads are cut slightly oversized and can accommodate the 1.5 degree taper
on the male thread over its entire length without engaging the taper.

Someone asked yesterday about the threads on a hot water heater element.  If
the element is threaded (as opposed to a flange mount) these are usually NPT
threads, and they are straight threads, not tapered.  The elements are
supplied with a little rubber gasket that is used to seal the element.  The
male thread on the element is a 1" NPT thread.  If there isn't a mating
female thread on the thing you want to screw the element into, you can get
1" threaded conduit rings that will thread onto the element.  These are
found in the electrical section of Home Depot and are typically used to
secure electrical conduit to junction boxes.  They are thin rings threaded
with the NPT thread form, but not tapered.  Insert the element (with the
gasket) through the hole into the vessel or box, then slip the ring over the
element and screw it down onto the threads on the element which compresses
the rubber gasket on the other side of the wall, making a seal.  The conduit
ring is made from galvanized steel, so it will rust.

Sorry this is long, I hope it helps more than it confuses.  Clarifications
available upon request.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
[3554 furlongs, 3.18 Radians] Apparent Rennerian
"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice."




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:55:19 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: skunky beer

I thought this made the rounds a month or so ago, but the
exact reaction for skunky beer has been discovered by
research at my esteemed employer (UNC-Chapel Hill).

"Mechanism for Formation of the Lightstruck Flavor in Beer
Revealed by Time-Resolved Electron Paramagnetic Resonance",
Colin S. Burns, Arne Heyerick, Denis De Keukeleire,and
Malcolm D. E. Forbes, Chemistry-A European Journal.

Search for "beer and Forbes" in any search engine and you'll
find the press release.  Some of his info on beer itself is
a bit off, but the chemistry is solid.

Cheers!

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:13:45 -0500
From: "Frank J. Russo" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: How do I Krauesen my lager??

I hate to have things get complicated.  Here is what I do to Krauesen my
beers:

I withhold 1-2 liters of my unfermented wort.  I usually freeze it.  When I
get ready to bottle, 2 days earlier I thaw out the frozen wort.  This I add
to my bottling carboy then rack the fermented beer onto it.  Allow it to set
an hour and bottle.


Frank Russo
ATF Home Brew Club
New Bern NC
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for the good men to do
nothing."



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:27:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Beers <beersal at yahoo.com>
Subject: stuck ferment

Hi all, 
Brewed a robust porter a week ago ( extract/steeped
grain, WLP002 ). OG was 1.056, bubbling nicely after 6
hrs. Racked to secondary 6 days later, gravity of
1.020, tasted fantastic! Now it sits in the secondary
flat, no activity. A wee bit of pressure in the
airlock, but very little bubbling. Rousing the carboy
doesn't help either. Should I pitch some more yeast??
I was thinking of getting some more yeast, making a
starter and using a small portion to "wake up" this
porter, and step up the remaining in the starter and
brew another porter or stout. Any suggestions? Private
e-mail ok.  TIA, Al

=====
Bath City Brewery
Brewing in Mt. Clemens, MI
[48.4, 21] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:39:20 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Weight Watchers

Hi,
  I joined Weight Watchers over the weekend & was wondering if anyone has
come up with a formula for figuring out the WW points in home brew?
Thanks,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:49:44 -0600
From: Dan.Stedman at PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Minneapolis pubs & stuff



JZ asked about Mpls pubs & I've got three recommendations:

Great Waters in downtown Saint Paul is a great brewpub with both regular and
cask-conditioned, hand-pulled ales. Yummy food and not too crowded or loud,
too...

On your way back to Mpls from Great Waters, stop at The Northern Brewer homebrew
shop - it's the best shop in the Twin Cities hands down. They might even give
you a sample of their latest kegged homebrew, though I think they had to stop
doing that (which is too bad, IMHO).

Then keep heading west to Sherlock's Home in Minnetonka, which is west of Mpls
off of 62 & Shady Oak Rd. It has what Michael Jackson considers to be the best
English ales in the country. All brewed on the premises and only two blocks from
my house (lucky me!). Their food is also very English, so if you like Fish 'n
Chips or Bangers and Mash, then you will be very satisfied!

Dan in Minnetonka





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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:19:24 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Oxyclean as a sanitizer


Chris,

Don't know what happened to your brew kettle, but I've been using OxiClean 
to clean cornie kegs for over a year and I've never seen anything like what 
you describe.  I'll keep an eye out for that kind of reaction, but for now 
it's so far, so good.

         ---------->Denny Conn
                 Eugene  OR

At 12:39 AM 1/28/02 -0500, Chris wrote:
>Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:27:14 -0600
>From: Chris <chris at webesota.com>
>Subject: Oxyclean as a sanitizer
>
>Dave Darrity asked about OxyClean as a sanitizer, and he got several
>responses.  Let me add my $0.02
>
>DON'T USE THIS PRODUCT ON STAINLESS STEEL!!!!
>
>I learned the hard way.  It seems to clean plastic and glass very well, but
>oh my it did a number on my brew kettle.
>
>I filled my 10-gal stainless kettle with a weak solution of OxyClean and
>water, amused myself by watching it bubble for a little while and went to
>bed, knowing that my keetle would be sparkling shiny clean in the AM.
>
>Yikes -- I woke up and found a black film covering the inside of my kettle,
>and I fear it's ruined.  I've scrubbed and scrubbed, and it looks like I've
>gotten most of the corrosion/oxidation/whatever it is (?), but I've been
>afraid to use the kettle again.
>
>If I can't use it, I'm out about $120 for a new one... boo hoo hoo.
>
>OxyClean doesn't have any bleaches in it, but it sure acted like a bleach
>on my stainless.
>
>chris carson
>Eden Prairie, MN




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:28:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Digest Netiquette

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Hiya, folks! We seem to be in a "Boom Time" as far as Digest
content goes. Due to this, a gentle reminder of some 'gest
netiquette with an eye to the preservation of bandwidth:

 o When quoting another post, please only quote those sections
   of the subject post  germaine to your new information
 o Where possible, paraphrase in brief rather than quote

And the time-worn saw:

 o If you contribute to an unwanted thread, no matter what the
   content of your message is, you are helping to perpetuate it

And its corallary:

 o The best way to kill an unwanted thread is to ignore it

Up, up and AWAY!!!

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:31:13 -0600
From: Gene Collins <GCollins at cranecarrier.com>
Subject: Re: Acetylene regulator

GP Kea asks about converting a acetylene regulator to use for CO2>

I don't think this can be done unless you are willing and able to braze a
new connector onto the regulator body. Acetylene uses a male left-handed
connector (to over-ride stupidity, no doubt) and a CO2 tank requires the use
of a female right hand thread, usually with a plastic sealing washer.

Secondly, for those who have been around acetylene gas, it is the most vile
smelling stuff imaginable. I am not sure if this odor wouldn't absorb into
the rubber components present inside of the regulator.

My advice, buy a CO2 regulator and save the acetylene regulator for cutting
the pieces for your future brewing equipment.

Gene Collins
broken Arrow, OK



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:53:19 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Aussie Pale Experiment

Has anyone (except maybe A.J.) considered that the water
chemistry used to brew the beer could effect such things?
My experiments with mash hopping have shown the process to
shine with my extremely soft water, but to have no
appreciable effect with waters hardened with minerals like
gypsum and CaCO3.

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:53:36 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: various responses to HBD#3850

On BT...

I don't think the sign of a good business owner is one who
becomes destitute to save their business.  You incorporate
to insulate yourself from business risk.  Sometimes the best
decision is the one to pull the plug.  Having written a few
things for BT (and having gotten to know their
Editor--Deb...you out there?) I can say that they did their
best with the given conditions.  It appears that Stephen is
trying to make good on past promises.  Peter should try the
newly available channel to get restitution.  Getting
vindictive over $45 seems a little strong.   And, as for the
CEN name change, did anyone ever consider that you'd HAVE to
set up a new organization to do this as New Wine Press
(original publisher of BT) has ceased to exist?  Quit
bitching about it and see if you can get what you feel is
rightfully yours.  You may have to flush the $45.  It's
certainly not pocket change, but I'd bet that more money has
been wasted on bad restaurant meals in a year.

On traveling with beer...

Just took a flight from RTP, NC to Newark and brought back
some Dogfish Head Raison D'Etre and Victory HopDevil with no
problems.  They didn't even question it, even though I was
once again singled out for the "extra-special" search.  With
a last name like "Sedam" I expect it every trip.  I kinda
like the look on their faces when the 6'5" pale guy walks up
to the counter, tho'.

On pumpkin beer...

I would be surprised if the Europeans had a lot of
experience with pumpkin beers, but the colonists figured it
out shortly after arriving here in 1620.  A few hints:
- -- use "pie pumpkins" and not those overblown jack o'
lanterns; pie pumpkins are sweeter and give more meat than
the other pumpkins
- -- split open the pumpkins and roast until done as you would
with any other squash; if you poke it with a fork and it's
soft all the way through, it's done
- -- treat the pumpkin meat as you would any other adjunct; it
needs to be mashed properly in order to get all the pumpkin
goodness out of it.  I've heard of people roasting and
boiling the pumpkin in the wort, but this would just seem to
leach the starches in the wort
- -- lastly, if you're making a dark beer consider putting a
quarter pound of brown sugar in the hollow of each pumpkin
half.  I just made a pumpkin porter this way and it was
pretty well divine.
- -- if someone wants beer to taste like pumpkin pie then
ignore all of this and add some cinnamon, nutmeg, and
allspice to the boil about 5 mins before the end.  Nasty
stuff, IMHO, but some like it.

On krauesening lagers...

I've crunched the numbers a bunch of different ways and
always come up with the same conclusion--a 2 quarts of 12P
(1.048) wort gives enough sugar to carbonate at about 2
volumes of CO2.  As for WHEN, I pitch the stuff as soon as
you see evidence of fermentation.  I usually pitch when the
krauesen foam just starts to form on the top of the wort
(used this way, it's called speise).  Oh, and use the yeast
from your primary to do this.  If this isn't possible, I
always keep handy a supply of quality dry lager yeast
available for just this work.  A teaspoon of dry yeast is
plenty to carbonate.

Finally...

I don't think it would be a complete posting if I didn't say
that I use Dan's sparge arm and like it when I use it.
Don't always, but am happy when I do.  As for temperature
drops...I boil all my sparge water just before using it and
then attach the sparge arm.  I don't cover the mash either.
When the temp drops to around 190F in the bucket I cover the
mash and continue sparging. Works fine.  No astringency.  No
wuckas.  And Dan is a hell of a retailer.  Even replaced the
silicone stoppers for the ends because *I* lost them.

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:22:37 -0500
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Dunkel

Greetings,

I am formulating a Dunkel recipe,  5 lbs Munich, 5 lbs Pilsner, .25 lb
black, .5 lbs Chocolate, .5 lbs dextrine.  Question,  is this too much dark
malt.  Should I eliminate the black?  I see many recipes with little or no
dark malts, mostly all Munich. However the commerical example I have seen
have enough dark malts to make them quite dark.  Debittered black malt? Any
thoughts?

It is a shame that Ray Daniels book doesn't cover Dunkel.........nor
Belgians.  I just purchased it, the many other styles it covers are well
done. Volume 2 perhaps?

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC

Apparent Rennarian 478.4, 152





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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:47:43 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: one-step as a sanitizer

Several people responded to my comments about One-step as a sanitizer.
The concern some have... Do they have a problem and don't know it?

I should say.. Only change sanitizer if you know you have a problem.

Some off flavors that come from poor sanitation:
Phenolics - Can come in the form of band aid, sourness, medicinal.
Lactic sourness is the problem I had when I used One-step.
Lactic can be a desired character, and fits into some styles.
But I was attempting to make clean lagers and ales.
Acetic(sp?) - This is a vinegar like spoilage.

Some people prefer a mild lactic bite in their homebrew.  Fine.  They
are producing the beer they want to.  Some traditional styles have
lactic characters (Belgian Browns, lambics, Berliner Weiss) 

How do you know if you have a problem?
Find someone who has experience tasting and identifying problems in
beers.  The Beer Judge Certification Program's (BJCP) purpose is
to train and recognize judges who are qualified to judge beer and
make comments that should help you.  I would suggest you find some
a homebrew club if there is one close to you, and ask if they have
members who are qualified beer judges.  Another way is to submit a 
beer to a BJCP or AHA sanctioned competition - This will give you
returned written comments in an anonymous way.
This could also backfire -- You like a beer.  Someone points out a 
problem. Then every time you drink it, you only notice the problem 
now, and no longer enjoy the beer.

Bottom line - make beer the way you want



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:11:23 -0400
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: re: Partial boils in microwave?

"Henry Van Gemert" <hvangeme at edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu> wrote:

> I've been involved in a project to make a single gallon of beer and was
> thinking how easy this would be to do if I only was boiling a quart of water
> with extract/hops, then adding water to top the wort out to a gallon. I
> could even use a large measuring cup in a microwave or such.

FWIW, I've used my microwave oven to boil wort in one litre Mason jar
(call it one US quart).  I've had as many as four jars, each with 800ml+
of wort (darn near one US gallon total) boiling, for five to ten
minutes.  I did this for canning wort, because I don't have a pressure
cooker.

Admittedly this is not the same as brewing in the microwave - foaming is
less of an issue.  You still get that lovely (or maritally (martially?)
contentious! ;-) boiling wort smell, though....

An interesting thing about boiling in a microwave oven - since the
heating is extremely gentle and uniform, it is possible to superheat the
liquid (i.e., get it above the boiling point before it begins to
bubble).  When it does boil, it can be fairly violent (read: sploosh,
and cleanup....).  I have not yet figured out a solution to this.

> Is there a special reason for bringing wort to a boil, besides the hop
> extraction, or will there be other, more sinister, effects of using
> microwaves to do this (I'm just tired of being exiled to the garage during
> boils because of the smell, then spending hours outdoors in cold weather)?

I don't think there's anything sinister about microwaves, but I don't
think it'll solve the smell problem.

Making a hop tea (with water) could be a low-smell way of extracting
flavour and aroma from the hops.  Perhaps you could use hop oil or
isomerized extract for bittering?  If so, then you could perhaps limit
your wort boil to five minutes or so, just for sterilizing the wort (and
minimizing smell production).


- -- 
 - Daniel
Fredericton, NB  Canada


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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:57:56 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray at netdoor.com>
Subject: Brewed and bottled....How long will it take?

OK. I just bottled my first home brew! Its a Nut brown ale. How long do I
need to let it sit in the bottles before its ready to drink?

Thanks,

Tray



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:15:27 -0600
From: "marc_hawley" <marc_hawley at msn.com>
Subject: two cents worth of misc

Scoop? Yes I scoop. I figure that stuff is "hot break" and needs to come out
of there sooner or later.

Buggy malt? Sure I'd use it. I ate the worm in the tequila. Maybe a little
protein rest would be in order. Bug juice barley wine!

Hop aroma. I've never had much luck with hop additions late in the boil. I
suppose thay have some effect, but ...
For me, I can say say that mash hopping with pellets definitely does add hop
flavor and dry hopping in the secondary definitely works.

Oat Aroma. Last weekend, I made "Toasted Oat Nut Brown Ale". I put a couple
of pounds of instant oats on a cookie sheet in the oven at 340 F for 20
minutes. Nothing. So I turned on the broiler and scortched those little
suckers. The worts tastes pretty good, actually. Anybody else ever try to
toast oats?

40 C Rest. I am a big believer in the George Fix 40 C rest. It makes a big
difference in efficiency and other benefits not so easy to measure. The
trick with highly modified malts is to bump quickly through the 113 - 131
range to avoid the "thin and headless" syndrome. (Reminds me of my first
wife.)

 ...Marc Hawley, just a hunt and peck typist, but not bad for such a big
pecker.




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---