HOMEBREW Digest #3858 Wed 06 February 2002

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  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  RE: Question for RIMS Operators/ Liquid Level Gauges (mark alfaro)
  Re: rice solids substitute (John Schnupp)
  Copper copper (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  Jeff's berry beer (Sherfey)
  more water questions (Himsbrew)
  all-grain (Paul Mahoney)
  Re: Rims software / Moving to all-grain ("Drew Avis")
  Re: High finishing CAP into the keg (Jeff Renner)
  Brass in Boiling Kettles? (Andrew Nix)
  EasyMasher & Alt Beer Hopping (Rick)
  Questions on brewing for Nitrogen dispensing ("Scott W. Nowicki")
  RE: Making the Jump (Brian Lundeen)
  Late hop addition ("Brian Schar")
  Re:sanky keg with cornie top ("Kurt Schweter")
  Nitrogen (Pat Babcock)
  Yeast for a CAP ("Erik A. Nelson")
  Not to late!! Homebrew at Real Ale Festival (David Newman)
  Re: HERMS/fermenters ("dunno me")
  RE:Question For RIMS Operators (Bill Tobler)
  RE:  Brass Fitting Question (Bill Tobler)
  re. Brass Fittings (John Palmer)
  Best of Brooklyn V Homebrew Competition ("Kevin Winn")
  Re: HEARMS Controllers and Pressure Vessels (Nate Wahl)
  Re: rice solids substitute (Jeff Renner)
  MCAB-IV Entry Information & Call for Judges ("Chuck Bernard")
  gelatin, etc. ("cwaters")
  High finishing CAP into the keg (Al Klein)
  A personal message from Stephen Mallery of BT (BrewingTechniques)
  Acid levels of mead (rnhobaugh)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:21:09 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at home.com> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report >From: Steve C Cobble <stevecobble at juno.com> >Subject: Yeast questions...... <SNIP> >How important is the amount of yeast used in brewing? Can you add too >much or too little?? How would these affect the final product? Also, when >reactivating dry yeast, would it make a difference to do so with some of >the cooled wort, or just with water, as the 'beer kit' instructs? Steve, for your dried yeast applications, I recommend using 10 grams of 'in-date' properly stored dry yeast. I know most yeasts are sold in a 5 gram sachet, and even some in 7 or 14 gram sachets...but the 5 gram sachet is really a remnant of the yeast packaging handed down from bread yeast manufacturers protocols. 10 grams of dried active yeast should be used for a 'normal' brew of 1.040 or 10 Plato for a 5 gallon batch. Once the gravity increases to 14 or 15 Plato, one should add an extra sachet, and should you get up into the 20 Plato or higher, you can't go wrong with 4-5 sachets. I use huge amounts for my huge beers...typically a kilo to a kilo and a half for 20 to 26 Plato 7 bbl batches. As for rehydration, I know you can get away with merely pitching the yeast onto cooled wort.... but as a homebrewer, I am sure that you want to try for the best circumstances possible,,,,and those require rehydration in 104F (97F-107F) tap water, for 10-15/60, then attemperate with chilled wort for 10-15/60, before adding to your fermenter. More info is available at http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstarrehyd.html >From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com> >Subject: RE: historical beer /yeast >Thought you might enjoy this excerpt from "The Lager Beer Industry in 19th >Century America," by John Hall (no relation), German Life magazine, Dec/Jan, >1996. <SNIP> > There were millions of Germans already in America. But until >1840, all attempts to import the delicate lager yeast had failed, and >thirsty Germans were forced to drink the allegedly inferior British-style >ales, porters, and stout. Curious that this reference of 1840 predates what I had previously learned about Dreher and Sedelmeyer, concerning their work leading to the first lagers in 1841....subsequently to Plzen in 1842...and the first pure cultures of lagers in 1883'ish..... Anybody got any better references than I do? >From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> >Subject: Re: Newbie question [Hydrating/pitching dry yeast] <SNIP> >However, for >economy sake, dried yeast is fine. The yeast companies usually say to >re-hydrate it in warm water like you said, but I think it would depend on >the temperature of the yeast--I don't think I'd put yeast straight from the >fridge into 90 degree water--you don't want to shock it. Economy isn't the best reason for using dried yeast...unless you mean economy of time...and I'm sure you don't mean that...for you are advocating starters...... Certainly the liquid yeast companies have a broader spectrum of styles available, but the best reason for using the available variety of dried yeasts is time saved by not having to use a starter...simply pull the sachet out of the fridge, or freezer for that matter, rehydrate in 104F tap water, attemperate by adding a equal amout of chilled wort, as described above...and pitch. More detailed info can be found in the archives of HBD, and especially at http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate where you might also find other useful info by scrolling up or down. <SNIP> >The Czechs apparently always over-pitch their yeast--and that's good enough >for me! Over-pitching has little downside to home brewers....excess sulphur production and filtering hassles can be problematic for professionals. >From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> >Subject: Suitable beer clarifiers... >I know every brewer has his special technique for clarifying--but I'm >curious as to the collectives' varied views anyway. <SNIP> I've always used BreakBright...now WhirlFloc in the kettle...and have used gelatine and/or DryFine in the secondary and tertiary vessels. These products work great for me. Full Disclosure....DryFine is produced by AB Vickers, distributed by Gusmer. AB Vickers is now owned by Lallemand, though my recommendations are based upon years of highly satisfied usage of Lallemand's yeasts and AB Vickers DryFine....many years before I was associated with Lallemand. DryFine is actually an isinglass for wine products...but my experiments showed it superior for my purposes. YMMV. Cheers! Jethro Gump Rob Moline jethrogump at home.com lallemand-yeast at home.com 515-450-0243 cell 515-282-2739 work American Homebrewers Association Institute for Brewing Studies AHABOA Secretary Master Brewers Association of the Americas Lallemand Head Brewer, Court Avenue Brewing Company, Des Moines, Iowa "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:39:12 -0800 From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com> Subject: RE: Question for RIMS Operators/ Liquid Level Gauges John Fraser asks about the effect of ramp times on a recipe. I have always split the ramp time between the two rest temps. As in your example, a recipe calls for a 30 minute rests at 140 and 158 degrees, I would start ramping to 158 degrees after 25 minutes rest at 140 degrees. When 158 is reached, rest for 25 minutes. This method may not be the best or only way to allow for the ramp time, but it has worked for me for the last five years. My only experience with mashing is using the RIMS, but I suppose there is some ramp time associated with a direct fired mash tun as well. Bottom line is, find what works well for you and don't worry about it. Ed Jones asks about liquid level gauges. I purchased my level gauges at an industrial valve supply. They are brass with black plastic valve handles and tube guards made of brass rod. They are intended for boiler applications, but work well and look good on my HLT and Kettle. For the shiny coffee pot style, I would try contacting Presto or Proctor Silex as they both manufacture those large coffee urns and may be able to supply a gauge. Mark Alfaro Chula Vista, CA Rennerian - Ich habe keine Idee Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: rice solids substitute Jeff is giving Brad advice about using rice and doing a cereal mash when he says, >before (see archives). Basically, take your coarsely ground rice >(try 1/2 pound) and add 1/3 its weight in crushed malt and brewing >water, mash at 153 or so for 20-30 minutes, then bring to a boil and >cook for 20-25 minutes (be sure to stir and add more liquid if >necessary). Then add to your main mash. This will raise its >temperature, so be sure to take this into account when designing your >mash schedule. Which brings me to my question. How does one account for this? I'm going to be doing a brew later this week and will be using 2 lb rice. I plan on doing a cereal mash and was trying to determine how to calculate the temperature increase. Would this be similar to calculating decoction? I'm going to be doing a swill type beer both to get some stock going for the spring and also to use up a bunch of leftover hops from previous batches. The cereal mash will be 2lb rice and .5lb malt. I'm planing the main mash for: 145F 45-60 min 158F 30 min 170F mashout I know the cereal mash will help with the temp boost but how much? I do infusion mashes so I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to have extra boiling water on hand, but having a rough idea will help me plan a little better. TIA, ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:21:43 +0100 From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int Subject: Copper copper Looking aroung the local antique junk market, I spotted a large copper pot with a price tag of 25 euro. It was still there at the end of the market, but at 15 euros, and I am now the proud owner of a +/- 200 litre copper vessel with an antique brass valve attached. It is roughly 80 cm across and 60 cm high (you translate to funny measures) with a flat bottom, no tin or other covering inside. It is almost certainly an industrial strength jam boiler. Any ideas what to do with it? (No, I will not ship it to you.) My first thought is to make it the boiler of an expanded brewery. Would a 170 kBTUburner be enough? Is copper "safe" for this purpose? Should I try to bond a sheet of copper to the bottom to help with heat distribution? How is that done, brazing? Will my wife tell me I am walking down a dangerous path? (I think I can answer that one myself.) As you see, this is very much first thoughts and I would appreciate any ideasor suggestions. (No, I will NOT ship it to you!) Bjorn Thegeby [3987, 81.8] Rennerian, but still five miles from Lembeek, so there. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 05:31:51 -0500 From: Sherfey <sherf at warwick.net> Subject: Jeff's berry beer Jeff, is this berry flavor one that might be used to good effect in another beer, or was this a distinctly bad "berry" flavor? If good, how much do you think or guess would be needed in a 5 gallon brew to get to a mild threshold level? Thanks! David Sherfey Warwick, NY I used Cluster as FWHs in a Classic American Pilsner (CAP) several years ago and got a distinct black currant or berry flavor (not particularly an aroma). This is the flavor of Cluster that is normally boiled away when it is used for bittering, but I found the beer nearly spoiled by it. It was sure "less than desirable" for me! People actually thought I'd used berries in the beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:59:49 EST From: Himsbrew at aol.com Subject: more water questions thanks to all who responded to my water analysis question. Now for another one, according to the jan./feb. issue of BYO, the water analysis for Burton has the following; sulfate- 450-725ppm calcium- 268-295 ppm in the same article it stated that in one gallon of water, one gram of gypsum adds : sulfate-147.4ppm calcium 61.5ppm Now, if my water has 50ppm calcium/13ppm sulfate, does that mean I need to add nearly 30 grams of gypsum to a 10 gallon batch to match the water? Seems way too high! thanks for setting me on track! Jim Cuny HIMSBREW at AOL.COM GREEN BAY WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 06:07:48 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com> Subject: all-grain Brewers: In HBD#3857 Drew Dunn asked about when to go to all-grain. Sorry Drew. It is too late! Just by asking the question, it is clear that you have been bitten by the home-brewing bug. You cannot just do things the easy way; you will need every gadget, gizmo and thingy available. You will spend sleepless nights concocting recipes, methods and techniques. You will ponder H:W ratios for fermenters, whether plastic is better than glass, you will fret about aluminum vs. stainless. You will chant Pivo-isms, you will dispute Alexander's theorems. You will feel the need to buy a GPS so you can calculate an accurate Rennerian coordinate. It is hopeless! Just go buy a 6-pack of BudLite. Seriously, you have many aspects yet to discover with extract. In our brew club (Star City Brewers Guild) we have many experienced extract brewers who regularly take top prizes in our club competitions. I have been all-grain for many years now, but I still whip up an extract batch when time is short. I find that an extract batch takes half the time. It may be difficult to find good, fresh extract at a reasonable price. We are fortunate to have a shop nearby in Blackburg, Va. (Vintage Cellar, no affiliation, yadda, etc.) that offers bulk LME at a great price. But I have already invested in a mill, mash tun (Gott cooler), other gizmos and gadgets, 3 bags of grain, plus many smaller quantities of specialty grains, so it is difficult to justify going back to extract. If you ignore the up-front capital investment, you cannot beat the cost of a 50# bag of grain as compared to the cost of DME. Our club realized a significant cost savings when we purchased bulk grain thru a local shop: 28 bags of grain (2-row, wheat, Munich). I recommend staying with extract a little longer; improve your techniques, experiment with the possibilities that your friend identifies, and pick up the equipment necessary for all-grain over time (at acceptable prices). But I fear, for you, it is too late. You are hooked! Paul Mahoney Star City Brewers Guild Roanoke, Va. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:27:52 -0500 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Rims software / Moving to all-grain John Fraser writes: "While testing my VisualBasic application to control the RIMS & HLT water heaters... Yet, it takes (for my RIMS) about ten minutes (rough guess) to get from 144 degrees to 152 degrees." I knew Visual Basic was slow, but I didn't think it was that slow! Maybe try re-writing in C? ;-) (Sorry, couldn't resist). Drew A. Dunn asks about when to move to all-grain. I'm sure you'll get lots of replies, Drew, but as Yoda would say, "you will know when you are ready." Or is that "ready you are when you know"? Anyway, if you got the brewing bug, take the leap. You can make very good all-grain beer with minimal equipment once you've figured out the basics of the process. However, I'd recommend only trying one new thing at time - if it's your first all-grain batch, don't make it also the first time you use liquid yeast, and the first time you dry hop, and the first time you use a chiller... etc. Cheers! Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:32:06 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: High finishing CAP into the keg "Lyga, Daniel M." <lygadm at pweh.com> writes from Harwinton, CT that he brewed a CAP according to my recipe and it has gone from 1.046 to only 1.018. While that's not an impossibly high FG, and I think it will still make a tasty, it is an indication of a problem. Your brewing technique looks good - good temperatures for the rests. But you say that your OG of 1.046 was low. That combined with your high FG suggests: Thought #1 - have you checked your thermometer at mash temperatures against a calibrated thermometer? There have been several cases like yours in which the brewer discovered his thermometer was way off. This could explain poor extract efficiency and low fermentability. You may be mashing way higher than you think. Another reason, perhaps more likely, is suggested by: > at 1/2 gal. Wyeast 2007(10/24/2001) starter grown over 3 weeks <snip> >ferment at 48 for 20 days >into secondary (1.025) at 45 for about 20 days Thought #2 - That's a very long primary fermentation and an indication that all is not well. I generally get about a ten day ferment with a newly cultured starter, and around seven days with repitched yeast (since I use a lot more yeast). A 1/2 gallon starter is not a huge one for a lager, and you ought to be able to build one a lot quicker than three weeks. I am very suspicious that your yeast was in poor shape from that long period. I like to build my starters up a lot quicker than that. Since you need a lot of yeast for a proper amount of yeast, I decant my starter and add more culture medium (wort) several times. My last starter is often a gallon or more for an eight gallon batch. One more thing: Thought #3 - how well did you aerate your wort? That is another trick to getting a complete fermentation. To recap - check your thermometer, then review your starter procedure and aeration procedure. There are good books and online sources for this. I'll bet it will still be a tasty beer, but you can improve it. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:59:19 -0500 From: Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu> Subject: Brass in Boiling Kettles? I'm reposting this with a different subject to see if I can get some info. The original subject line may not have drawn much attention: Ok, I hope the questions for my new system aren't getting annoying. Here's the latest: On both my boiling kettle and mash/lauter tun (both converted kegs) I am using brass Swagelok bulkhead fittings. I bought brass since it is cheaper than stainless steel. Does a brass fitting in the boiling kettle pose on problems (i.e health)? I know that in some states (notably California) brass ball valves are suggested to not be used in hot water systems as they can cause reproductive problems? I think it has to do with the Zinc content of the water being high? Is there any problem that anyone knows of with using brass fittings in a boiling kettle where temps reach up to 208F (at least at the elevation I am at). I wonder why everyone wants to use stainless fittings and ball valves when they are so expensive and thought maybe the reason was that brass was not to be used in really high temperatures. Drewmeister Andrew Nix Department of Mechanical Engineering Virginia Tech anix at vt.edu http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 07:50:37 -0800 (PST) From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com> Subject: EasyMasher & Alt Beer Hopping Has anyone ever used an EasyMasher in the kettle to help filter out break & hops? I've got a 3-tier system and I pump from the Kettle to the CFC. My concern is that the EM will clog from the break. Second, I'm brewing an Alt bier next week and need some suggestions on the hopping. I'm thinking of First Wort Hopping (merely to experiment with it). I'll be using 4-5% Saaz or Tett's for the FWH. How much bitterness should I attribute to my overall IBUS for this? Is there any easy calculation out there? Thanks for any help. Rick Seibt Mentor, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:21:46 -0500 From: "Scott W. Nowicki" <nowicki at voicenet.com> Subject: Questions on brewing for Nitrogen dispensing I'm in the process of getting set up for converting the beer meister to a Nitrogen (/CO2) draft system, and I'm planning to christen it with an Irish Stout (all-grain) to be brewed in a week or so. I'm suspect you can pretty much push any beer with Nitrogen and it will be fine, but I was just wondering if there are any suggestions on brewing methods or techniques that would make a beer better on Nitrogen. Any suggestions on yeasts? I'm guessing a full-bodied beer would work best, but maybe not? Of course when most people think of Nitrogenated beers it's usually a stout, but what other styles are good on Nitrogen? Offhand I can think of Caffrey's (Cream Ale, I believe). I'm considering an IPA for the next batch. I usually formulate my own recipes, but I'd also love to hear anyone's suggestions for their favorite Nitrogenated stout, IPA, or whatever. Thanks! Scott Nowicki Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:00:30 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Making the Jump Drew Dunn writes: > I have only brewed a few batches ( a half-dozen or so ) which > have been extract with specialty grains, but I have an itch > to try all grain. I understand the need for extra equipment > and add complexity. I look at these as more fun, not more > headache. My brewing buddy (also strictly extract) argues > that there is still so much to explore with extract I don't think anyone moves to all-grain because they feel they have exhausted all the possibilities in extract based brewing. They do it because they want to make beer from scratch. Period. You say you've got the itch. Go for it and enjoy the learning curve. If your buddy stays with extract, you can both be experimenting, but in different areas. Both of you will benefit from the increased knowledge. Cheers Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:16:32 -0800 From: "Brian Schar" <schar at vimedical.com> Subject: Late hop addition Braam Greyling discussed making a hop tea for addition during kegging. I do this myself before bottling, with great results. I boil aroma hops along with the dextrose I use for carbonation, then add this mixture to my bottling bucket. Not only do I get a great hop aroma in my finished product, but also I don't have to worry about adding nasties to my fermenter by simply dropping in unboiled hops. Brian Schar (What the heck is Rennerian?) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:28:31 -0500 From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com> Subject: Re:sanky keg with cornie top Marc talks about a keg with cornie top look at Sabco's yeast brink Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Nitrogen Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Scott Nowicki chimes in with something like "when most people think of Nitrogenated beers"... For practical purposes, there really no such thing as nitrogenated beer. Nitrogen is virtually insoluble in beer at the temperatures and pressures we are dealing with. Nitrogen is used solely to push the beer at a higher pressure without disturbing the carbonation level as CO2 would, and without the staling/spoiling associated with using air... - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:05:40 -0600 From: "Erik A. Nelson" <heimbrauer at mn.astound.net> Subject: Yeast for a CAP I am trying to decide on a good yeast for doing a CAP (Classic American Pilsner). Does anyone have a suggestion? I usually use the white labs, but I can use White labs or Wyeast. I am thinking of WLP German lager, or Pilsen yeast, or possibly the Wyeast American lager, or Bohemian lager. Anyone with experience with this style please let me know. You can email me directly at heimbrauer at astound.net Erik Nelson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:24:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Newman <newmandave at yahoo.com> Subject: Not to late!! Homebrew at Real Ale Festival Fellow homebrewers, It is not too late to enter a beer in the Real Ale Fest homebrew competition in Chicago. Beers can be dropped off up to a few hours before the opening reception and homebrew competition, Thursday, 2/28. There are nice perks to entering a beer, see the links below. If you were planning to, don't wait. Send your registration soon. (By Feb 16th) Email myself - Homebrew Coordinator David Newman newmandave at yahoo.com or Ray Daniels - Festival Coordinator RayDan at ameritech.net festival info http://www.realalefestival.com Homebrew info http://www.realalefestival.com/homebrew.html And entry form with details http://www.realalefestival.com/HBComp02.pdf Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:51 -0700 From: "dunno me" <nicklebender at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: HERMS/fermenters >>David Passaretti writes: DaveP> I am attempting to automate a HERMS (thank you Nate, Bill, CD, DaveP> and others for your input) system and have at my disposal a DaveP> Gefran 3300 PID controller. It has what is called an analog DaveP> output (0-10V). I know nothing about these controllers. Does DaveP> anyone know if there is anyway to use this controller to turn a DaveP> mag drive pump on/off or control a solenoid? I've never used the Gefran 3300 myself but I'm fairly sure I understand what you have. An analog output is a variable voltage from 0 to 10 volts dc(more commonly 4-20 mA or 10-50mA are used in industry). Depending on what you want to control this can actualy be more useful to you than a simple on/off relay. For example if you aquire something like a KB drive from a site like ebay you could use this 0-10 to signal the drive start and stop your pump motor and control the speed. Or the same "Power Block" style of drive to control the voltage aplied to Rims heater. If your real lucky this PID controller may have multiple inputs and outputs and a small set of contacts(often used as alarm contacts) you could use to run lots of stuff. For inputs I sugest you go to the National semiconductors site and have a look at the lm35 and lm34 temprature probes these can easily be configuered to provide a 4-20 input signal to your control. Cheers Doug Craftchick Sudbury, Canada Good HomeBrewing Internet Club http://forums.delphiforums.com/homebrew007/start Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:56:57 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE:Question For RIMS Operators John, I brew with a HERMS, and I just don't count the ramp times. I guess you could call it a "Time out". Depending on temperature of the HLT, my ramp times change. And of course, the closer I get to the temp of the HLT, the longer the ramps get. I just don't worry about it, and have a homebrew. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:39:08 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Brass Fitting Question Andrew, Brass has traces of lead in it, and John Palmer explains it much better than I. It can be used safely in brewing, if you treat it correctly. Look about half way down the article. http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Welding.txt Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:08:04 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: re. Brass Fittings Andrew asked if there were any real concerns about using brass swagelock fittings in his system instead of stainless steel. He notes that California for instance puts a warning on brass ball valves to not be used in hot water systems for fear of reproductive harm. To answer the first question, Any concerns? No. To answer the second query, Hot water issues with brass? No. Brass has two issues with its use in brewing: a. Brass contains a small amount of lead. This small amount is not enough to cause chronic lead poisoning, much less acute poisoning, but the less ingested the better. So, use the de-leading treatment of 2:1 vinegar to hydrogen peroxide solution, soak for five minutes until the parts turn buttery gold but before the solution turns blue, and rinse. De-leading the brass provides for a more corrosion-resistant surface anyway. b. Brass is not compatible with commercial caustic CIP cleaners. They cause blackening and corrosion of the brass. That's why commercial brewers use only stainless steel, which the CIP cleaners were designed for. This means that homebrewers perceive that brass parts are not okay for use in brewing, which is not true. Our use of brass parts is such that we can dis-assemble and clean as necessary, and that we can use other friendlier cleaners which won't effect the brass. Several years ago, California passed Prop 65 which says that any chemical or substance known to cause (cancer, reproductive harm, etc.) (in any application) is used in any other application, it must carry a warning sticker if the manufacturer wants to avoid liability for its use. Or something like that. Thus, any brass item which contains lead carries that warning. Any bicycle containing beryllium as an alloy constituent probably has a warning, neverminding the fact that beryllium is only a hazard if inhaled as a dust. I don't think they have gone so far as dihydrogen oxide warnings, but they aren't far off. Cheers! John Palmer Monrovia, CA How To Brew - the online book http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html Homepage http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer Let there be Peace on Earth. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:37:57 -0500 From: "Kevin Winn" <krewbrew at mindspring.com> Subject: Best of Brooklyn V Homebrew Competition The Malted Barley Appreciation Society will be hosting its fifth annual homebrew competition, Best of Brooklyn V, on February 23, 2002 at the Brooklyn Brewery. This AHA sanctioned event will continue the tradition of providing quality judging and rewarding brewers with a prize for first, second, and third place in each category. There will again be a First Time Contestant's Best of Show. Entries will be due by February 15, and several drop off points will be provided. You can now register to enter or judge online. Visit our website at http://hbd.org/mbas/bob2002.html or contact Kevin Winn at krewbrew at mindspring.com for more information. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:48:30 -0500 From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net> Subject: Re: HEARMS Controllers and Pressure Vessels Brewers! David Passaretti asked about using his "Gefran 3300 PID controller. It has what is called an analog output (0-10V)." Temperature controllers come in two varieties; analog and relayed output. The analog ones are meant to control analog devices like variable position air/motor operated valves, motors (via input to speed controller) and things that can be finely adjusted. Relayed output devices turn things either on or off, like solenoids, SSRs, and well, relays (bistable devices, technically)! An analog controller will 'throttle' a device to a mid-position to maintain a temperature, while a relayed device will have its On vs. Off time varied to meet the system demands (heat input needs to equal heat losses at steady state). While an analog controller may output the equivelant of say 33% 'power' or HLT coil valve position signal to maintain a constant temperature, for instance, a relayed device would be 'on' 33% of the cycle time set into the controller (a few seconds to a few minutes depending on the process). If the cycle time was 10 seconds, it would be 'on' (valve open) for 3.3 seconds, 'off' (closed) for 6.7, and repeat. Same resluts, different equipment. On-Off devices like solenoid valves do take a beating, cycling a lot, but then again they are a lot cheaper and easier to work with than throttling valves; fewer moving parts, possibly directly energized through the controller contacts, etc. Likewise, its a whole lot easier to turn an electric element on and off with a big relay or an SSR than to try to make its output vary proportionally with an incoming analog signal. The short version, David, is that your controller may be difficult to use. Its not just a matter of hooking it up directly to a solenoid valve, starting a pump circuit or turning on a heating element. You will have to rig up something; using the 1-10 V signal to position an RC type servo hooked up to a manual 3-way valve comes to mind. Or you could rig up something to trigger another relay to operate a solenoid valve or whatever as your controller passes upwards through 5 volts output. Just some ideas. I hope this at least helps clear things up. On a related note, there seems to be a lot of confusion about how PID controllers work and how to apply them to brewing; I'm tinkering with writing a blurb on the topic to put on the web or publish or something if anybody is interested. Regarding the thread on sealing up a (modified) sanke/cornie keg with a quart of water in it and then heating it to 25 pounds pressure; very bad idea. Its not a vessel designed for steam pressure/temperature, nor is the relief valve sized for this purpose. Especially with a vessel that apparently was severly modified and has probably not been pressure tested at all, much less to any code. Or any vessel not designed for that purpose, for that matter. 25# steam may sanitize nicely, but its at about 250 degrees and can release about 1000 BTU per pound. Using this potential bomb would be MUCH scarier than handling a loaded glass carboy, IMHO... Regards and Hoppy Brewing, Nate A piece below and somewhat to the right of Mr. Renner, I believe... PS, a few of us are road-tripping from Ohio up to check out Dragonmead sometime this Saturday afternoon; no details yet, but if anyone is in the area... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:48:31 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: rice solids substitute John Schnupp wrote from Georgia, VT about adding cereal mash to the main mash: >I know the cereal mash will help with the temp boost but how much? I do >infusion mashes so I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to have extra boiling >water on hand, but having a rough idea will help me plan a little better. I confess that I never worry about how much because I add it and then heat the mash tun and recirculate until I reach to next step (same schedule as yours). I think typically adding 22% corn (plus the necessary malt) raises it from 146 to about 152F, but it's hard to say because the temperatures in the mash vary from spot to spot so much. The big boys add enough cereal mash to hit their next step, but I don't like to use that much adjunct. Hope this helps at least a little. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:42:47 -0500 From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com> Subject: MCAB-IV Entry Information & Call for Judges Attention all MCAB-IV eligible brewers. . . MCAB-IV will take place in Cleveland, OH April 12 & 13, 2002! While we continue to plan the remainder of the technical conference, our web page guy has promised me that the entry details will be posted on the MCAB web site by this weekend (www.hbd.org/mcab). All the necessary information including entry registration forms, bottle requirements, entry deadline, and ship to address can be found on the website. Questions concerning entries can be addressed to mcab-entry at mindspring.com. Only entry related questions to this email please. In the near future we should have the remainder of the information concerning the technical conference up on the web site. We will also need judges for the event. We're looking at a Friday judging session, a session Saturday morning, followed by Best of Show judging Saturday afternoon. We are trying to avoid conflicts between the judging session and the technical presentations. Although we hope you can be available, you do NOT need to be available for all sessions to judge. A judge registration form should also be posted by the end of the week. Questions concerning judging at MCAB should be directed to mcabjudge at mindspring.com. Chuck Bernard bernardch at mindspring.com Medina, OH Cleveland Organizing Committee - MCAB-IV Competition Director, MCAB-IV Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:04:14 -0600 From: "cwaters" <cwaters at cox.net> Subject: gelatin, etc. Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:50:07 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Suitable beer clarifiers... I am constantly amazed by the efficacy of gelatin. I had 8 gallons of bitter that I brewed with Crisp Maris Otter, which often throws a haze. Two weeks in the secondaries and it was still hazy, so I racked it to two new carboys with a packet of gelatin. The next morning it was crystal clear Jeff: I'd second your observation on Maris Otter, but I like the overall flavor, etc. and continue to use it. I rarely use fining agents since I'm not that impatient and my IPA's. etc., eventually drop clear with time. I've always thought of gelatin in the same light as isinglass - mostly for use to clarify beers made with low-flocculent yeasts, and not effective against chill-haze proteins, but I heard you talk and post on gelatin before, so I'm to ready to try it. I'd appreciate your suggestions on amount to use FOR PROTEIN HAZE, whether you see any flavor/hop, or heading/mouthfeel loss (compared with age-settling), and how/if you sterilize it for use. Wish you were closer so I could join you 2/23, even though I'm pretty proud of my own CAP's (your recipe!); Nothing better than to see the master at work. BTW - Thank you for your always thoughtful comments and help on this digest, your resurrection of CAP and CACA's, and your ready help of so many beginners' questions (I should post responses too, but I don't have your energy or patience). I believe I may speak for the collective and state you've been a true resource to us all. Chester Waters, M.D. - -Omaha, Ne. (Renerian exile) 'People who claim to know everything are particularly irritating to those of us who really do' Ben Rogge (1967) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:09:30 -0500 From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net> Subject: High finishing CAP into the keg Daniel Lyga asked about creating further attenuation after racking to a Corny keg: Put a tube on the gas in connector of the keg, with an airlock on the other end of the tube. (You'll have to tie that end of the hose to something above the level of the beer in the keg - I use a leg of the table the keg sits under, and a couple of twist ties. You might just tie it to a higher shelf in the fridge.) Cornies make nice secondary fermenters - you can chill, carbonate and serve with no further racking. - --- [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al - rukbat at optonline dot net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:24:42 -0800 From: BrewingTechniques <brewtech at earthlink.net> Subject: A personal message from Stephen Mallery of BT I have recently become aware of the discussion on HBD about BrewingTechniques and me, personally. Normally I would never think to post what I am about to, but I feel the extraordinary discussion merits a few clarifications. I ask the janitor for this chance to set the record straight and hopefully to set the flames to rest. I will keep the post here focused to the points the HBD community seems to find relevant. - I folded BT in July-August 1999 because readership and ad sales were in decline, we were incurring an increasing operating debt, and advertisers were not paying their bills. At closing, I had over $40,000 in unpaid and uncollectible ad sales. - I organized the redemption of unpaid subs with back issues, but couldn't complete it because by that time I didn't have the $4,000 in postage required to fulfill these orders. I was surrounded by debt; the only zero balance was my checking account. - BT was an S-corp, which offers fewer protections than C-corps. All BT debts flowed back to me as an individual. - In April 2000 I filed personal bankruptcy (Chapter 7). I lost everything of any value, including my home of 13 years. - Bankruptcy does not discharge all categories of debt, leaving me to this day tens of thousands of dollars in debt. - Two years later, I have sorted out bankruptcy, a divorce, and custody. I have new employment, new housing, kids full time, and a new supportive relationship. I am now finally able to address my remaining debts to BT subscribers and other creditors. - I contracted Consumer's Edge Network (CEN) to handle the fulfillment of back issue orders. Our agreement included the use of office space and a phone line during the liquidation process (hence the phone in my name). CEN uses eFax (hence the non-Oregon area code). BT hasn't had a fax number since the BT office closed over two years ago. - CEN is responsible for all communications, fulfillment, finances, accounting, complaints, etc. - All money goes into an escrow account managed by CEN; my name is nowhere on it. All money is being dedicated to mailing subscribers' back issues and paying BT's remaining debts. - CEN says, "CEN has conducted the closing and liquidation of stock for three other companies, all in the state of Florida where Consumer's Edge Network was based for eight years. We have relocated and are currently licensed and registered with the state of Oregon for the past year. Liquidation of a business is an unusually specialized service and is not often advertised. Not only have we liquidated companies, but we have also renegotiated debt and debt consolidation, as well as finalized the accounting for tax purposes for these companies." - I caught CEN in the middle of a change in web hosts, so they are using the BT website for their web pages (http://brewingtechniques.com/CEN). CEN maintains several email accounts for its various business activities, but c.e.n. at netzero.net is dedicated to the BT liquidation effort. I appreciate the concerns that former subscribers must have with BT's demise and my subsequent silence, and I apologize for all the distress and trouble this may have caused. I hope to show in this message that I did not walk away with bags of cash, but I have been dealing with an immense amount of trouble stemming from BT's financial failure as well as major upheaval in my personal life. Yet I am trying to resolve the remaining loose ends fully and responsibly. I ask that members of this forum -- which was near and dear to me for years -- not stoop to spreading rumors or projecting scandals that don't have basis in truth. BT's exit may not have been perfect, but it was the best I could do under the circumstances (probably the best anyone could have done under the circumstances). Certainly it was not fraud. You just can't make beer with no ingredients. If you have a complaint or question of a personal nature, please register it with me directly (brewtech at earthlink.net). CEN is in charge of the back issues, and I prefer all communications to go to them. But I would rather be contacted by those who have a personal issue with me than to have my name and what used to be a decent reputation dragged through the mud in a public forum. To the many people who supported me during the good times, and especially those who continue to support me during these more difficult times, I extend my heartfelt thanks. Now go brew some beer! Thanks for giving me whatever positive space you have. I hope BrewingTechniques served you well in the past and that its archive can continue to serve you in the future. Cheers, -stephen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:08:38 -0500 From: rnhobaugh at juno.com Subject: Acid levels of mead I posted this on the MLD, but got no response, maybe I will have better luck here. I recently bought a wine acid test kit to get more precise in my approach to mead. It is very simple, but gives no acid levels regarding mead. It has instructions for red, white, and fruit wines. Would a mead equate to acid levels of a white wine? I assume a fruit wine would be the same as a fruit wine. I tested a sack mead I have fermenting: 19 lbs of honey and lime zest. The guidelines for white wine would mean adding 5 teaspoons of acid blend per gallon, or 18 tsp for 4.5 gallons of mead! This sounds like a lot. Anyone use one of these, or have any recomendations? TIA Russ Hobaugh Goob Dog Brewery Birdsboro, PA Return to table of contents
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