---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  RE: Question for RIMS Operators/ Liquid Level Gauges (mark alfaro)
  Re: rice solids substitute (John Schnupp)
  Copper copper (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  Jeff's berry beer (Sherfey)
  more water questions (Himsbrew)
  all-grain (Paul Mahoney)
  Re: Rims software / Moving to all-grain ("Drew Avis")
  Re: High finishing CAP into the keg (Jeff Renner)
  Brass in Boiling Kettles? (Andrew Nix)
  EasyMasher & Alt Beer Hopping (Rick)
  Questions on brewing for Nitrogen dispensing ("Scott W. Nowicki")
  RE: Making the Jump (Brian Lundeen)
  Late hop addition ("Brian Schar")
  Re:sanky keg with cornie top ("Kurt Schweter")
  Nitrogen (Pat Babcock)
  Yeast for a CAP ("Erik A. Nelson")
  Not to late!! Homebrew at Real Ale Festival (David Newman)
  Re: HERMS/fermenters ("dunno me")
  RE:Question For RIMS Operators (Bill Tobler)
  RE:  Brass Fitting Question (Bill Tobler)
  re. Brass Fittings (John Palmer)
  Best of Brooklyn V Homebrew Competition ("Kevin Winn")
  Re: HEARMS Controllers and Pressure Vessels (Nate Wahl)
  Re: rice solids substitute (Jeff Renner)
  MCAB-IV Entry Information & Call for Judges ("Chuck Bernard")
  gelatin, etc. ("cwaters")
  High finishing CAP into the keg (Al Klein)
  A personal message from Stephen Mallery of BT (BrewingTechniques)
  Acid levels of mead (rnhobaugh)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:21:09 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at home.com>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

>From: Steve C Cobble <stevecobble at juno.com>
>Subject: Yeast questions......
<SNIP>
>How important is the amount of yeast used in brewing? Can you add too
>much or too little?? How would these affect the final product? Also, when
>reactivating dry yeast, would it make a difference to do so with some of
>the cooled wort, or just with water, as the 'beer kit' instructs?

     Steve, for your dried yeast applications, I recommend using 10 grams of
'in-date' properly stored dry yeast. I know most yeasts are sold in a 5 gram
sachet, and even some in 7 or 14 gram sachets...but the 5 gram sachet is
really a remnant of the yeast packaging handed down from bread yeast
manufacturers protocols.
     10 grams of dried active yeast should be used for a 'normal' brew of
1.040 or 10 Plato for a 5 gallon batch. Once the gravity increases to 14 or
15 Plato, one should add an extra sachet, and should you get up into the 20
Plato or higher, you can't go wrong with 4-5 sachets. I use huge amounts for
my huge beers...typically a kilo to a kilo and a half for 20 to 26 Plato 7
bbl batches.
	As for rehydration, I know you can get away with merely pitching the yeast
onto cooled wort.... but as a homebrewer, I am sure that you want to try for
the best circumstances possible,,,,and those require rehydration in 104F
(97F-107F) tap water, for 10-15/60, then attemperate with chilled wort for
10-15/60, before adding to your fermenter.
	More info is available  at 
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstarrehyd.html

>From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: historical beer /yeast
>Thought you might enjoy this excerpt from "The Lager Beer Industry in 19th
>Century America," by John Hall (no relation), German Life magazine,
Dec/Jan,
>1996.
<SNIP>
> There were millions of Germans already in America. But until
>1840, all attempts to import the delicate lager yeast had failed, and
>thirsty Germans were forced to drink the allegedly inferior British-style
>ales, porters, and stout.

     Curious that this reference of 1840 predates what I had previously
learned about Dreher and Sedelmeyer, concerning their work leading to the
first lagers in 1841....subsequently to Plzen in 1842...and the first pure
cultures of lagers in 1883'ish.....
     Anybody got any better references than I do?

>From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
>Subject: Re:  Newbie question [Hydrating/pitching dry yeast]
<SNIP>
>However, for
>economy sake, dried yeast is fine.  The yeast companies usually say to
>re-hydrate it in warm water like you said, but I think it would depend on
>the temperature of the yeast--I don't think I'd put yeast straight from the
>fridge into 90 degree water--you don't want to shock it.

     Economy isn't the best reason for using dried yeast...unless you mean
economy of time...and I'm sure you don't mean that...for you are advocating
starters......
     Certainly the liquid yeast companies have a broader spectrum of styles
available, but the best reason for using the available variety of dried
yeasts is time saved by not having to use a starter...simply pull the sachet
out of the fridge, or freezer for that matter, rehydrate in 104F tap water,
attemperate by adding a equal amout of chilled wort, as described
above...and pitch.
     More detailed info can be found in the archives of HBD, and especially
 at  http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate
where you might also find other useful info by scrolling up or down.
<SNIP>
>The Czechs apparently always over-pitch their yeast--and that's good enough
>for me!
     Over-pitching has little downside to home brewers....excess sulphur
production and filtering hassles can be problematic for professionals.

>From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
>Subject: Suitable beer clarifiers...
>I know every brewer has his special technique for clarifying--but I'm
>curious as to the collectives' varied views anyway.
<SNIP>
     I've always used BreakBright...now WhirlFloc in the kettle...and have
used gelatine and/or DryFine in the secondary and tertiary vessels. These
products work great for me.

     Full Disclosure....DryFine is produced by AB Vickers, distributed by
Gusmer. AB Vickers is now owned by Lallemand, though my recommendations are
based upon years of highly satisfied usage of Lallemand's yeasts and AB
Vickers DryFine....many years before I was associated with Lallemand.
     DryFine is actually an isinglass for wine products...but my experiments
showed it superior for my purposes. YMMV.

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
jethrogump at home.com
lallemand-yeast at home.com
515-450-0243 cell
515-282-2739 work

American Homebrewers Association
Institute for Brewing Studies
AHABOA Secretary
Master Brewers Association of the Americas
Lallemand
Head Brewer, Court Avenue Brewing Company, Des Moines, Iowa

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:39:12 -0800
From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com>
Subject: RE: Question for RIMS Operators/ Liquid Level Gauges

John Fraser asks about the effect of ramp times on a recipe. I have
always split the ramp time between the two rest temps. As in your
example, a recipe calls for a 30 minute rests at 140 and 158 degrees, I
would start ramping to 158 degrees after 25 minutes rest at 140 degrees.
When 158 is reached, rest for 25 minutes. 
This method may not be the best or only way to allow for the ramp time,
but it has worked for me for the last five years. My only experience
with mashing is using the RIMS, but I suppose there is some ramp time
associated with a direct fired mash tun as well. Bottom line is, find
what works well for you and don't worry about it.



Ed Jones asks about liquid level gauges. I purchased my level gauges at
an industrial valve supply. They are brass with black plastic valve
handles and tube guards made of brass rod. They are intended for boiler
applications, but work well and look good on my HLT and Kettle. For the
shiny coffee pot style, I would try contacting Presto or Proctor Silex
as they both manufacture those large coffee urns and may be able to
supply a gauge. 

Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA
Rennerian - Ich habe keine Idee


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:10:54 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rice solids substitute

Jeff is giving Brad advice about using rice and doing a cereal mash when he
says,

>before (see archives).  Basically, take your coarsely ground rice 
>(try 1/2 pound) and add 1/3 its weight in crushed malt and brewing 
>water, mash at 153 or so for 20-30 minutes, then bring to a boil and 
>cook for 20-25 minutes (be sure to stir and add more liquid if 
>necessary).  Then add to your main mash.  This will raise its 
>temperature, so be sure to take this into account when designing your 
>mash schedule.

Which brings me to my question.  How does one account for this?  I'm going to
be doing a brew later this week and will be using 2 lb rice.  I plan on doing a
cereal mash and was trying to determine how to calculate the temperature
increase.  Would this be similar to calculating decoction?  

I'm going to be doing a swill type beer both to get some stock going for the
spring and also to use up a bunch of leftover hops from previous batches.  The
cereal mash will be 2lb rice and .5lb malt.

I'm planing the main mash for:
145F 45-60 min
158F 30 min
170F mashout

I know the cereal mash will help with the temp boost but how much?  I do
infusion mashes so I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to have extra boiling
water on hand, but having a rough idea will help me plan a little better.

TIA,

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:21:43 +0100 
From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int
Subject: Copper copper

Looking aroung the local antique junk market, I spotted a 
large copper pot with a price tag of 25 euro. It was still 
there at the end of the market, but at 15 euros,  and I am 
now the proud owner of a +/- 200 litre copper vessel with 
an antique brass valve attached. 

It is roughly 80 cm across and 60 cm high (you translate 
to funny measures)  with a flat bottom, no tin or other 
covering inside. It is almost certainly an industrial 
strength jam boiler. Any ideas what to do with it? (No, I 
will not ship it to you.)

My first thought is to make it the boiler of an expanded 
brewery. Would a 170 kBTUburner be enough? Is copper 
"safe" for this purpose?  Should I try to bond a sheet 
of copper to the bottom to help with heat distribution? 
How is that done, brazing? Will my wife tell me I am 
walking down a dangerous path? (I think I can answer 
that one myself.) 

As you see, this is very much first thoughts and I would 
appreciate any ideasor suggestions. (No, I will NOT ship 
it to you!) 

Bjorn Thegeby
[3987, 81.8] Rennerian, but still five miles from 
Lembeek, so there.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 05:31:51 -0500
From: Sherfey <sherf at warwick.net>
Subject: Jeff's berry beer

Jeff, is this berry flavor one that might be used to good effect in another 
beer, or was this a distinctly bad "berry" flavor?  If good, how much do 
you think or guess would be needed in a 5 gallon brew to get to a mild 
threshold level?

Thanks!
David Sherfey
Warwick, NY

I used
Cluster as FWHs in a Classic American Pilsner (CAP) several years ago
and got a distinct black currant or berry flavor (not particularly an
aroma). This is the flavor of Cluster that is normally boiled away
when it is used for bittering, but I found the beer nearly spoiled by
it. It was sure "less than desirable" for me! People actually
thought I'd used berries in the beer.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:59:49 EST
From: Himsbrew at aol.com
Subject: more water questions

thanks to all who responded to my
water analysis question. Now for another
one, according to the jan./feb. issue
of BYO, the water analysis for Burton
has the following;
sulfate- 450-725ppm
calcium- 268-295 ppm
in the same article it stated that in
 one gallon of water, one gram of gypsum adds :
sulfate-147.4ppm
calcium 61.5ppm 
Now, if my water has 50ppm calcium/13ppm
sulfate, does that mean I need to add 
nearly 30 grams of gypsum to a 10 gallon batch
to match the water? Seems way too high!
thanks for setting me on track!
Jim Cuny
HIMSBREW at AOL.COM
GREEN BAY WI
 



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 06:07:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com>
Subject: all-grain

Brewers:
   In HBD#3857 Drew Dunn asked about when to go to
all-grain.
   Sorry Drew. It is too late!  Just by asking the
question, it is clear that you have been bitten by the
home-brewing bug.  You cannot just do things the easy
way; you will need every gadget, gizmo and thingy
available.  You will spend sleepless nights concocting
recipes, methods and techniques.  You will ponder H:W
ratios for fermenters, whether plastic is better than
glass, you will fret about aluminum vs. stainless.
   You will chant Pivo-isms, you will dispute
Alexander's theorems.  You will feel the need to buy a
GPS so you can calculate an accurate Rennerian
coordinate.
   It is hopeless!  Just go buy a 6-pack of BudLite.
   Seriously, you have many aspects yet to discover
with extract.  In our brew club (Star City Brewers
Guild) we have many experienced extract brewers who
regularly take top prizes in our club competitions.  I
have been all-grain for many years now, but I still
whip up an extract batch when time is short.  I find
that an extract batch takes half the time.  
   It may be difficult to find good, fresh extract at
a reasonable price.  We are fortunate to have a shop
nearby in Blackburg, Va.  (Vintage Cellar, no
affiliation, yadda, etc.) that offers bulk LME at a
great price.
   But I have already invested in a mill, mash tun
(Gott cooler), other gizmos and gadgets, 3 bags of
grain, plus many smaller quantities of specialty
grains, so it is difficult to justify going back to
extract. If you ignore the up-front capital
investment, you cannot beat the cost of a 50# bag of
grain as compared to the cost of DME.
   Our club realized a significant cost savings when
we purchased bulk grain thru a local shop: 28 bags of
grain (2-row, wheat, Munich).
   I recommend staying with extract a little longer;
improve your techniques, experiment with the
possibilities that your friend identifies, and pick up
the equipment necessary for all-grain over time (at
acceptable prices).
   But I fear, for you, it is too late.  You are
hooked!

Paul Mahoney
Star City Brewers Guild
Roanoke, Va.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:27:52 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rims software / Moving to all-grain

John Fraser writes:
"While testing my VisualBasic application to control the RIMS & HLT water
heaters... Yet, it takes (for my RIMS) about ten minutes (rough guess) to
get from 144 degrees to 152 degrees."

I knew Visual Basic was slow, but I didn't think it was that slow!  Maybe
try re-writing in C? ;-)  (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Drew A. Dunn asks about when to move to all-grain.  I'm sure you'll get lots
of replies, Drew, but as Yoda would say, "you will know when you are ready."
Or is that "ready you are when you know"?  Anyway, if you got the brewing
bug, take the leap.  You can make very good all-grain beer with minimal
equipment once you've figured out the basics of the process.  However, I'd
recommend only trying one new thing at time - if it's your first all-grain
batch, don't make it also the first time you use liquid yeast, and the first
time you dry hop, and the first time you use a chiller... etc.

Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:32:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: High finishing CAP into the keg

"Lyga, Daniel M." <lygadm at pweh.com> writes from Harwinton, CT that he 
brewed a CAP according to my recipe and it has gone from 1.046 to 
only 1.018.

While that's not an impossibly high FG, and I think it will still 
make a tasty, it is an indication of a problem.  Your brewing 
technique looks good - good temperatures for the rests.  But you say 
that your OG of 1.046 was low.  That combined with your high FG 
suggests:

Thought #1 - have you checked your thermometer at mash temperatures 
against a calibrated thermometer?  There have been several cases like 
yours in which the brewer discovered his thermometer was way off. 
This could explain poor extract efficiency and low fermentability. 
You may be mashing way higher than you think.

Another reason, perhaps more likely, is suggested by:

> at  1/2 gal. Wyeast 2007(10/24/2001) starter grown over 3 weeks
<snip>
>ferment  at  48 for 20 days
>into secondary (1.025) at 45 for about 20 days

Thought #2 - That's a very long primary fermentation and an 
indication that all is not well.  I generally get about a ten day 
ferment with a newly cultured starter, and around seven days with 
repitched yeast (since I use a lot more yeast).

A 1/2 gallon starter is not a huge one for a lager, and you ought to 
be able to build one a lot quicker than three weeks.  I am very 
suspicious that your yeast was in poor shape from that long period.

I like to build my starters up a lot quicker than that.  Since you 
need a lot of yeast for a proper amount of yeast, I decant my starter 
and add more culture medium (wort) several times.  My last starter is 
often a gallon or more for an eight gallon batch.

One more thing:

Thought #3 - how well did you aerate your wort?  That is another 
trick to getting a complete fermentation.

To recap - check your thermometer, then review your starter procedure 
and aeration procedure.  There are good books and online sources for 
this.

I'll bet it will still be a tasty beer, but you can improve it.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:59:19 -0500
From: Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu>
Subject: Brass in Boiling Kettles?

I'm reposting this with a different subject to see if I can get some 
info.  The original subject line may not have drawn much attention:

Ok, I hope the questions for my new system aren't getting annoying.  Here's 
the latest:

On both my boiling kettle and mash/lauter tun (both converted kegs) I am 
using brass Swagelok bulkhead fittings.  I bought brass since it is cheaper 
than stainless steel.  Does a brass fitting in the boiling kettle pose on 
problems (i.e health)?  I know that in some states (notably California) 
brass ball valves are suggested to not be used in hot water systems as they 
can cause reproductive problems?  I think it has to do with the Zinc 
content of the water being high?

Is there any problem that anyone knows of with using brass fittings in a 
boiling kettle where temps reach up to 208F (at least at the elevation I am 
at).  I wonder why everyone wants to use stainless fittings and ball valves 
when they are so expensive and thought maybe the reason was that brass was 
not to be used in really high temperatures.

Drewmeister
Andrew Nix
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Virginia Tech
anix at vt.edu
http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 07:50:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: EasyMasher & Alt Beer Hopping

Has anyone ever used an EasyMasher in the kettle to
help filter out break & hops?  I've got a 3-tier
system and I pump from the Kettle to the CFC. My
concern is that the EM will clog from the break.  

Second, I'm brewing an Alt bier next week and need
some suggestions on the hopping.  I'm thinking of
First Wort Hopping (merely to experiment with it). 
I'll be using 4-5% Saaz or Tett's for the FWH. How
much bitterness should I attribute to my overall IBUS
for this?  Is there any easy calculation out there?

Thanks for any help.
Rick Seibt
Mentor, OH



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:21:46 -0500
From: "Scott W. Nowicki" <nowicki at voicenet.com>
Subject: Questions on brewing for Nitrogen dispensing

I'm in the process of getting set up for converting the beer meister to
a Nitrogen (/CO2) draft system, and I'm planning to christen it with an
Irish Stout (all-grain) to be brewed in a week or so.  I'm suspect you
can pretty much push any beer with Nitrogen and it will be fine, but I
was just wondering if there are any suggestions on brewing methods or
techniques that would make a beer better on Nitrogen.  Any suggestions
on yeasts?  I'm guessing a full-bodied beer would work best, but maybe
not?  

Of course when most people think of Nitrogenated beers it's usually a
stout, but what other styles are good on Nitrogen?  Offhand I can think
of Caffrey's (Cream Ale, I believe).  I'm considering an IPA for the
next batch.

I usually formulate my own recipes, but I'd also love to hear anyone's
suggestions for their favorite Nitrogenated stout, IPA, or whatever.

Thanks!
Scott Nowicki





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:00:30 -0600 
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Making the Jump

Drew Dunn writes:

> I have only brewed a few batches ( a half-dozen or so ) which 
> have been extract with specialty grains, but I have an itch 
> to try all grain.  I understand the need for extra equipment 
> and add complexity.  I look at these as more fun, not more 
> headache.  My brewing buddy (also strictly extract) argues 
> that there is still so much to explore with extract 

I don't think anyone moves to all-grain because they feel they have
exhausted all the possibilities in extract based brewing. They do it because
they want to make beer from scratch. Period. You say you've got the itch. Go
for it and enjoy the learning curve. If your buddy stays with extract, you
can both be experimenting, but in different areas. Both of you will benefit
from the increased knowledge.

Cheers
Brian


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:16:32 -0800
From: "Brian Schar" <schar at vimedical.com>
Subject: Late hop addition

Braam Greyling discussed making a hop tea for addition during kegging.  I do
this myself before bottling, with great results.  I boil aroma hops along
with the dextrose I use for carbonation, then add this mixture to my
bottling bucket.  Not only do I get a great hop aroma in my finished
product, but also I don't have to worry about adding nasties to my fermenter
by simply dropping in unboiled hops.

Brian Schar
(What the heck is Rennerian?)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:28:31 -0500
From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com>
Subject: Re:sanky keg with cornie top

Marc talks about a keg with cornie top
look at Sabco's yeast brink


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:18:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Nitrogen

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Scott Nowicki chimes in with something like "when most people
think of Nitrogenated beers"...

For practical purposes, there really no such thing as
nitrogenated beer. Nitrogen is virtually insoluble in beer at
the temperatures and pressures we are dealing with. Nitrogen is
used solely to push the beer at a higher pressure without
disturbing the carbonation level as CO2 would, and without
the staling/spoiling associated with using air...

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:05:40 -0600
From: "Erik A. Nelson" <heimbrauer at mn.astound.net>
Subject: Yeast for a CAP

I am trying to decide on a good yeast for doing a CAP (Classic American 
Pilsner).  Does anyone have a suggestion?  I usually use the white labs, 
but I can use White labs or Wyeast.  I am thinking of WLP German lager, or 
Pilsen yeast, or possibly the Wyeast American lager, or Bohemian 
lager.  Anyone with experience with this style please let me know.

You can email me directly at heimbrauer at astound.net

Erik Nelson




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:24:47 -0800 (PST)
From: David Newman <newmandave at yahoo.com>
Subject: Not to late!! Homebrew at Real Ale Festival

Fellow homebrewers,
It is not too late to enter a beer in the Real Ale Fest homebrew
competition in Chicago. Beers can be dropped off up to a few hours 
before the opening reception and homebrew competition, Thursday, 2/28.

There are nice perks to entering a beer, see the links below.

If you were planning to, don't wait.
Send your registration soon. (By Feb 16th)

Email myself - Homebrew Coordinator
David Newman   newmandave at yahoo.com
or Ray Daniels - Festival Coordinator
RayDan at ameritech.net

festival info
http://www.realalefestival.com
Homebrew info
http://www.realalefestival.com/homebrew.html
And entry form with details
http://www.realalefestival.com/HBComp02.pdf



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:51 -0700
From: "dunno me" <nicklebender at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: HERMS/fermenters

>>David Passaretti writes:

DaveP> I am attempting to automate a HERMS (thank you Nate, Bill, CD,
DaveP> and others for your input) system and have at my disposal a
DaveP> Gefran 3300 PID controller. It has what is called an analog
DaveP> output (0-10V). I know nothing about these controllers. Does
DaveP> anyone know if there is anyway to use this controller to turn a
DaveP> mag drive pump on/off or control a solenoid?

I've never used the Gefran 3300 myself but I'm fairly sure I understand what 
you have. An analog output is a variable voltage from 0 to 10 volts dc(more 
commonly 4-20 mA or 10-50mA are used in industry). Depending on what you 
want to control this can actualy be more useful to you than a simple on/off 
relay. For example if you aquire something like a KB drive from a site like 
ebay you could use this 0-10 to signal the drive start and stop your pump 
motor and control the speed. Or the same "Power Block" style of drive to 
control the voltage aplied to Rims heater.
If your real lucky this PID controller may have multiple inputs and outputs 
and a small set of contacts(often used as alarm contacts) you could use to 
run lots of stuff. For inputs I sugest you go to the National semiconductors 
site and have a look at the lm35 and lm34 temprature probes these can easily 
be configuered to provide a 4-20 input signal to your control.

Cheers
Doug Craftchick
Sudbury, Canada

Good HomeBrewing Internet Club

http://forums.delphiforums.com/homebrew007/start





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:56:57 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:Question For RIMS Operators

John,
    I brew with a HERMS, and I just don't count the ramp times.  I guess you
could call it a "Time out".  Depending on temperature of the HLT, my ramp
times change.  And of course, the closer I get to the temp of the HLT, the
longer the ramps get.  I just don't worry about it, and have a homebrew.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:39:08 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Brass Fitting Question

Andrew,
    Brass has traces of lead in it, and John Palmer explains it much better
than I. It can be used safely in brewing, if you treat it correctly.   Look
about half way down the article.

http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Welding.txt

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:08:04 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: re. Brass Fittings

Andrew asked if there were any real concerns about using brass swagelock 
fittings in his system instead of stainless steel.
He notes that California for instance puts a warning on brass ball valves 
to not be used in hot water systems for fear of reproductive harm.
To answer the first question, Any concerns? No.
To answer the second query, Hot water issues with brass? No.

Brass has two issues with its use in brewing:
a. Brass contains a small amount of lead. This small amount is not enough 
to cause chronic lead poisoning, much less acute poisoning, but the less 
ingested the better. So, use the de-leading treatment of 2:1 vinegar to 
hydrogen peroxide solution, soak for five minutes until the parts turn 
buttery gold but before the solution turns blue, and rinse. De-leading the 
brass provides for a more corrosion-resistant surface anyway.
b. Brass is not compatible with commercial caustic CIP cleaners. They cause 
blackening and corrosion of the brass. That's why commercial brewers use 
only stainless steel, which the CIP cleaners were designed for.  This means 
that homebrewers perceive that brass parts are not okay for use in brewing, 
which is not true. Our use of brass parts is such that we can dis-assemble 
and clean as necessary, and that we can use other friendlier cleaners which 
won't effect the brass.

Several years ago, California passed Prop 65 which says that any chemical 
or substance known to cause (cancer, reproductive harm, etc.) (in any 
application) is used in any other application, it must carry a warning 
sticker if the manufacturer wants to avoid liability for its use. Or 
something like that. Thus, any brass item which contains lead carries that 
warning. Any bicycle containing beryllium as an alloy constituent probably 
has a warning, neverminding the fact that beryllium is only a hazard if 
inhaled as a dust. I don't think they have gone so far as dihydrogen oxide 
warnings, but they aren't far off.
Cheers!


John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:37:57 -0500
From: "Kevin Winn" <krewbrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: Best of Brooklyn V Homebrew Competition

The Malted Barley Appreciation Society will be hosting its fifth annual
homebrew competition, Best of Brooklyn V, on February 23, 2002 at the
Brooklyn Brewery.  This AHA sanctioned event will continue the tradition
of providing quality judging and rewarding brewers with a prize for first,
second, and third place in each category.  There will again be a First Time
Contestant's Best of Show.  Entries will be due by February 15, and several
drop off points will be provided.

You can now register to enter or judge online.  Visit our website at
http://hbd.org/mbas/bob2002.html or contact Kevin Winn at
krewbrew at mindspring.com for more information.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:48:30 -0500
From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Re: HEARMS Controllers and Pressure Vessels

Brewers!

David Passaretti asked about using his "Gefran 3300 PID controller. It
has what is
called an analog output (0-10V)."

Temperature controllers come in two varieties; analog and relayed
output.  The analog ones are meant to control analog devices like
variable position air/motor operated valves, motors (via input to speed
controller) and things that can be finely adjusted.  Relayed output
devices turn things either on or off, like solenoids, SSRs, and well,
relays (bistable devices, technically)!

An analog controller will 'throttle' a device to a mid-position to
maintain a temperature, while a relayed device will have its On vs. Off
time varied to meet the system demands (heat input needs to equal heat
losses at steady state).

While an analog controller may output the equivelant of say 33% 'power'
or HLT coil valve position signal to maintain a constant temperature,
for instance, a relayed device would be 'on' 33% of the cycle time set
into the controller (a few seconds to a few minutes depending on the
process).  If the cycle time was 10 seconds, it would be 'on' (valve
open) for 3.3 seconds, 'off' (closed) for 6.7, and repeat.  Same
resluts, different equipment.

On-Off devices like solenoid valves do take a beating, cycling a lot,
but then again they are a lot cheaper and easier to work with than
throttling valves; fewer moving parts, possibly directly energized
through the controller contacts, etc.  Likewise, its a whole lot easier
to turn an electric element on and off with a big relay or an SSR than
to try to make its output vary proportionally with an incoming analog
signal.

The short version, David, is that your controller may be difficult to
use.  Its not just a matter of hooking it up directly to a solenoid
valve, starting a pump circuit or turning on a heating element.  You
will have to rig up something; using the 1-10 V signal to position an RC
type servo hooked up to a manual 3-way valve comes to mind.  Or you
could rig up something to trigger another relay to operate a solenoid
valve or whatever as your controller passes upwards through 5 volts
output.  Just some ideas.

I hope this at least helps clear things up.

On a related note, there seems to be a lot of confusion about how PID
controllers work and how to apply them to brewing; I'm tinkering with
writing a blurb on the topic to put on the web or publish or something
if anybody is interested.

Regarding the thread on sealing up a (modified) sanke/cornie keg with a
quart of water in it and then heating it to 25 pounds pressure; very bad
idea.  Its not a vessel designed for steam pressure/temperature, nor is
the relief valve sized for this purpose.  Especially with a vessel that
apparently was severly modified and has probably not been pressure
tested at all, much less to any code.  Or any vessel not designed for
that purpose, for that matter. 25# steam may sanitize nicely, but its at
about 250 degrees and can release about 1000 BTU per pound. Using this
potential bomb would be MUCH scarier than handling a loaded glass
carboy, IMHO...

Regards and Hoppy Brewing,
Nate
A piece below and somewhat to the right of Mr. Renner, I believe...

PS, a few of us are road-tripping from Ohio up to check out Dragonmead
sometime this Saturday afternoon; no details yet, but if anyone is in
the area...


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:48:31 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: rice solids substitute

John Schnupp wrote  from Georgia, VT about adding cereal mash to the main mash:

>I know the cereal mash will help with the temp boost but how much?  I do
>infusion mashes so I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to have extra boiling
>water on hand, but having a rough idea will help me plan a little better.

I confess that I never worry about how much because I add it and then 
heat the mash tun and recirculate until I reach to next step (same 
schedule as yours).  I think typically adding 22% corn (plus the 
necessary malt) raises it from 146 to about 152F, but it's hard to 
say because the temperatures in the mash vary from spot to spot so 
much.  The big boys add enough cereal mash to hit their next step, 
but I don't like to use that much adjunct.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:42:47 -0500
From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
Subject: MCAB-IV Entry Information & Call for Judges

Attention all MCAB-IV eligible brewers. . .

MCAB-IV will take place in Cleveland, OH April 12 & 13, 2002!

While we continue to plan the remainder of the technical conference, our web
page guy has promised me that the entry details will be posted on the MCAB
web site by this weekend (www.hbd.org/mcab).

All the necessary information including entry registration forms, bottle
requirements, entry deadline, and ship to address can be found on the
website.  Questions concerning entries can be addressed to
mcab-entry at mindspring.com.  Only entry related questions to this email
please.

In the near future we should have the remainder of the information
concerning the technical conference up on the web site.

We will also need judges for the event.  We're looking at a Friday judging
session, a session Saturday morning, followed by Best of Show judging
Saturday afternoon.  We are trying to avoid conflicts between the judging
session and the technical presentations.  Although we hope you can be
available, you do NOT need to be available for all sessions to judge.

A judge registration form should also be posted by the end of the week.
Questions concerning judging at MCAB should be directed to
mcabjudge at mindspring.com.


Chuck Bernard        bernardch at mindspring.com
Medina, OH
Cleveland Organizing Committee - MCAB-IV
Competition Director, MCAB-IV



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:04:14 -0600
From: "cwaters" <cwaters at cox.net>
Subject: gelatin, etc.

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:50:07 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Suitable beer clarifiers...
I am constantly amazed by the efficacy of gelatin.  I had 8 gallons
of bitter that I brewed with Crisp Maris Otter, which often throws a
haze.  Two weeks in the secondaries and it was still hazy, so I
racked it to two new carboys with a packet of gelatin.  The next
morning it was crystal clear

Jeff:
    I'd second your observation on Maris Otter, but I like the overall
flavor, etc. and continue to use it. I rarely use fining agents since I'm
not that impatient and my IPA's. etc., eventually drop clear with time. I've
always thought of gelatin in the same light as isinglass - mostly for use to
clarify beers made with low-flocculent yeasts, and not effective against
chill-haze proteins, but I heard you talk and post on gelatin before, so I'm
to ready to try it. I'd appreciate your suggestions on amount to use FOR
PROTEIN HAZE, whether you see any flavor/hop, or heading/mouthfeel loss
(compared with age-settling), and how/if you sterilize it for use.
    Wish you were closer so I could join you 2/23, even though I'm pretty
proud of my own CAP's (your recipe!); Nothing better than to see the master
at work.
    BTW - Thank you for your always thoughtful comments and help on this
digest, your resurrection of CAP and CACA's, and your ready help of so many
beginners' questions (I should post responses too, but I don't have your
energy or patience). I believe I may speak for the collective and state
you've been a true resource to us all.

Chester Waters, M.D.  - -Omaha, Ne.
(Renerian exile)

'People who claim to know everything are particularly
irritating to those of us who really do'
Ben Rogge (1967)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:09:30 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: High finishing CAP into the keg

Daniel Lyga asked about creating further attenuation after racking to
a Corny keg:

Put a tube on the gas in connector of the keg, with an airlock on the
other end of the tube.  (You'll have to tie that end of the hose to
something above the level of the beer in the keg - I use a leg of the
table the keg sits under, and a couple of twist ties.  You might just
tie it to a higher shelf in the fridge.)  Cornies make nice secondary
fermenters - you can chill, carbonate and serve with no further
racking.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:24:42 -0800
From: BrewingTechniques <brewtech at earthlink.net>
Subject: A personal message from Stephen Mallery of BT

I have recently become aware of the discussion on HBD about
BrewingTechniques and me, personally. Normally I would never think to
post what I am about to, but I feel the extraordinary discussion
merits a few clarifications. I ask the janitor for this chance to set
the record straight and hopefully to set the flames to rest.

I will keep the post here focused to the points the HBD community
seems to find relevant.

 - I folded BT in July-August 1999 because readership and ad sales
were in decline, we were incurring an increasing operating debt, and
advertisers were not paying their bills. At closing, I had over
$40,000 in unpaid and uncollectible ad sales.

 - I organized the redemption of unpaid subs with back issues, but
couldn't complete it because by that time I didn't have the $4,000 in
postage required to fulfill these orders. I was surrounded by debt;
the only zero balance was my checking account.

 - BT was an S-corp, which offers fewer protections than C-corps. All
BT debts flowed back to me as an individual.

 - In April 2000 I filed personal bankruptcy (Chapter 7). I lost
everything of any value, including my home of 13 years.

 - Bankruptcy does not discharge all categories of debt, leaving me to
this day tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

 - Two years later, I have sorted out bankruptcy, a divorce, and
custody. I have new employment, new housing, kids full time, and a
new supportive relationship. I am now finally able to address my
remaining debts to BT subscribers and other creditors.

 - I contracted Consumer's Edge Network (CEN) to handle the
fulfillment of back issue orders. Our agreement included the use of
office space and a phone line during the liquidation process (hence the
phone in my name). CEN uses eFax (hence the non-Oregon area code). BT
hasn't had a fax number since the BT office closed over two years ago.

 - CEN is responsible for all communications, fulfillment, finances,
accounting, complaints, etc.

 - All money goes into an escrow account managed by CEN; my name is
nowhere on it. All money is being dedicated to mailing subscribers'
back issues and paying BT's remaining debts.

 - CEN says, "CEN has conducted the closing and liquidation of stock
for three other companies, all in the state of Florida where
Consumer's Edge Network was based for eight years. We have relocated
and are currently licensed and registered with the state of Oregon
for the past year. Liquidation of a business is an unusually
specialized service and is not often advertised. Not only have we
liquidated companies, but we have also renegotiated debt and debt
consolidation, as well as finalized the accounting for tax purposes
for these companies."

 - I caught CEN in the middle of a change in web hosts, so they are
using the BT website for their web pages
(http://brewingtechniques.com/CEN). CEN maintains several email
accounts for its various business activities, but c.e.n. at netzero.net
is dedicated to the BT liquidation effort.

I appreciate the concerns that former subscribers must have with BT's
demise and my subsequent silence, and I apologize for all the
distress and trouble this may have caused. I hope to show in this
message that I did not walk away with bags of cash, but I have been
dealing with an immense amount of trouble stemming from BT's
financial failure as well as major upheaval in my personal life. Yet
I am trying to resolve the remaining loose ends fully and responsibly.

I ask that members of this forum -- which was near and dear to me for
years -- not stoop to spreading rumors or projecting scandals that
don't have basis in truth. BT's exit may not have been perfect, but
it was the best I could do under the circumstances (probably the best
anyone could have done under the circumstances). Certainly it was not
fraud. You just can't make beer with no ingredients.

If you have a complaint or question of a personal nature, please
register it with me directly (brewtech at earthlink.net). CEN is in
charge of the back issues, and I prefer all communications to go to
them. But I would rather be contacted by those who have a personal
issue with me than to have my name and what used to be a decent
reputation dragged through the mud in a public forum.

To the many people who supported me during the good times, and
especially those who continue to support me during these more
difficult times, I extend my heartfelt thanks.

Now go brew some beer! Thanks for giving me whatever positive space
you have. I hope BrewingTechniques served you well in the past and
that its archive can continue to serve you in the future.

Cheers,

 -stephen



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:08:38 -0500
From: rnhobaugh at juno.com
Subject: Acid levels of mead

I posted this on the MLD, but got no response, maybe I will have
better luck here.

I recently bought a wine acid test kit to get more precise in 
my approach to mead. It is very simple, but gives no acid 
levels regarding mead. It has instructions for red, white, and
fruit wines.  Would a mead equate to acid levels of a white
wine? I assume a fruit wine would be the same as a fruit
wine.  I tested a sack mead I have fermenting: 19 lbs of 
honey and lime zest.  The guidelines for white wine would
mean adding 5 teaspoons of acid blend per gallon, or 18 
tsp for 4.5 gallons of mead!  This sounds like a lot.  Anyone
use one of these, or have any recomendations?  TIA

Russ Hobaugh 
Goob Dog Brewery
Birdsboro, PA


Return to table of contents

---