HOMEBREW Digest #3859 Thu 07 February 2002

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  Re: New Temperture Controler Chip. (Dion Hollenbeck)
  brewing techniques and Stephen Mallery (Rick Wood)
  Re: rice solids substitute (John Schnupp)
  using yeast from secondary? (leavitdg)
  Re: Acid levels of mead ("Dan McFeeley")
  robotic pub (russ)
  Re: Easymashers & MCAB ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re: Jeff's berry beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Alt Beer Hopping (Jeff Renner)
  splitting a 5 gallon batch ("Ronnie Anderson")
  CARBOY Shamrock Open - March 16, 2002 ("Mike Dixon")
  Re: gelatin, etc. (Jeff Renner)
  Re: The Jethro Gump Report (Jeff Renner)
  Easy Masher  in Boil Kettle ("cwaters")
  When to start All-Grain ("Larry Bristol")
  Re: FWH/clarification ("Steve Alexander")
  RE: EasyMasher in the kettle and Alt hopping (Paul Shick)
  Acid in Mead (AJ)
  fanciful analogy language (Pat Babcock)
  RE When to start All-Grain / Beer vs Soup (Don Lake)
  Re: HERMS/fermentors ("Mike Pensinger")
  Grain Mill Review Article in Zymurgy (Gregg Ferlin)
  EZ masher ("Rich Medina")
  Shiner Bock Recipe (?) (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Re: Copper copper ("Angie and Reif Hammond")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 05 Feb 2002 20:25:43 -0800 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com> Subject: Re: New Temperture Controler Chip. Pete> The topic of temperature control comes up frequently in this Pete> forum. I just got a notice that Atmel has a new triac driver Pete> chip, a T2117. The notice is at: Pete> Pete> http://mailinglist.chipcenter.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eFwa0Co4RK0Bbs0BWIs0Ay Sounds much like the Rodney Morris design using a zero crossing chip to drive two ICs, 8 resistors and 4 caps and a triac. Worked for up to a 15 amp triac. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck Email: hollen at woodsprite.com Home Page: http://www.woodsprite.com Brewing Page: http://hbd.org/hollen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:01:39 +1000 From: Rick Wood <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: brewing techniques and Stephen Mallery Hello All, With all of the talk about BT and Stephen's message today I thought I would resend the message that I sent back in 1999. Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 06:45:03 +1000 From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Re BT Hello All, All this talk regarding BT, I just had to respond. I received my mailing from BT regarding the three options and it took virtually no thought regarding which option to accept. I accepted the forgive the debt option. I did this not as an act of charity, but as an act of forgiveness and thanks for a job well done. The letter explaining the situation seemed sincere to me. I have no doubt that the people at BT did the absolute best they could have done, under the circumstances. If they were not doing the best that they could, how else could they have produced such a respected magazine? I am sad to see them gone. I hope BT is reincarnated in some way. I must say that if AHA does not do this, they are missing an opportunity! Regards, Rick Wood Brewing on Guam And now several years later, I still wish well to Stephen and want to thank him for the several years of BT that he gave us. I wish it could have continued longer. Regards, Rick Wood Still Brewing on Guam Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:23:40 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: rice solids substitute Jeff wrote me back and said > I confess that I never worry about how much because I add it and then > heat the mash tun and recirculate until I reach to next step (same snip > Hope this helps at least a little. Well, I guess I'm going to do just that. I will just boil some extra water and have it ready in case I undershoot the temp, which seems more likely than and overshoot. Adding some ice for an overshoot is easy too. Guess what I should do is actually complete my RIMS. I have all the components but have never connected everything and tested it. In order to maintain a fully load of beer bullets, I brew in the garage. SHMBO likes the smell of the mash but not the smell of boiling bitter wort. This time of year temps are typically in the 20's. That is another good reason I should finish the RIMS I started about 3 years ago. Having the RIMS would make mash temperature stability a non-issue. The final reason is just because. > > Jeff > -- > Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net > "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 07:34:14 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: using yeast from secondary? I brewed a Hefe several weeks ago, put into secondary 2 weeks ago (without harvesting the yeast) then bottled (and pigged) last night, saving they yeast. What is the scoup on yeast from the secondary? Is it more or less vital than that from the primary? .Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 06:32:11 -0600 From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley at keynet.net> Subject: Re: Acid levels of mead On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 , Russ Hobaugh wrote: >I posted this on the MLD, but got no response, maybe I will have >better luck here. > >I recently bought a wine acid test kit to get more precise in >my approach to mead. It is very simple, but gives no acid >levels regarding mead. It has instructions for red, white, and >fruit wines. Would a mead equate to acid levels of a white >wine? [....] rest of post deleted Hello Russ -- One reason why you may not have gotten a reply on MLD is because many meadmakers don't use acid at all. The meads come out well, balance is good, and acid is not needed. For those who do use acid, exact guidelines for acid additions to meads are impossible because of the wide variations of flavor found in all the different varietal honeys. If you're going to use acid, add it according to taste, but taste it first before you add anything to the mead. It might be just fine as it is, without any additives. Happy meadmaking! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley at keynet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:38:49 -0500 From: russ at rfischer.mailshell.com Subject: robotic pub Next time you're in Berlin, stop by the Automaten Bar to have a drink served by a robot. It is completely automated, no human bartenders It appears to be pretty popular, as they've already got 130 members after 2 weeks without any advertising. Be careful if you order a screwdriver, you might not get what you expect :-) http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,643721,00.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 14:25:26 +0000 From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Easymashers & MCAB In HBD #3858, Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com> asks: >Has anyone ever used an EasyMasher in the kettle to >help filter out break & hops? I've got a 3-tier >system and I pump from the Kettle to the CFC. My >concern is that the EM will clog from the break. I have used an EasyMasher (large converted-keg size) in the boiling vessel several times. The only time I had problems with clogging was when I used pelletized hops (~50% by weight were pellets, the rest whole). Chuck Bernard announced: >Attention all MCAB-IV eligible brewers. . . As of today at 8:05am CST (9:05am RennerianST) the list of eligible brewers still hasn't appeared on the MCAB web site. Will the list be included in the "entry details" to be posted by this weekend? T'would be nice to know, especially for those of us who don't consciously enter competitions with MCAB as a goal. (You'd be surprised-- or maybe not-- how many contests I enter unconsciously. ;-) Joel Plutchak Mashing Easily and Unconsciously in East-central Illinois [275.4, 238.2] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:45:57 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Jeff's berry beer David Sherfey asks me from Warwick, NY >is this berry flavor one that might be used to good effect in another >beer, or was this a distinctly bad "berry" flavor? If good, how much do >you think or guess would be needed in a 5 gallon brew to get to a mild >threshold level? It was distinctly unpleasant in a pilsner, with a bit of roughness to it, but somebody in the brew club was going to try it for a fruit beer. don't know if they did or not. I've just found my notes for this 2/29/96 brew. For 8 gallons I used 1/2 Hallertauer for FWH and 50 grams Cluster (7.2%) for FWH with no additional bitterness hops. I would say this was more than threshold but not in your face. This reminds me that using all of your bittering hops for FWH can work nicely. I did this Columbus hops for an American Pale Ale and was happy with the results, and I tasted a pale lager that Steve Alexander did with noble hops that was quite nice (but out of style for the Helles he was aiming for - too much hop flavor!). Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:57:40 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Alt Beer Hopping Rick Seibt <ale_brewer at yahoo.com> writes from Mentor, OH >I'm brewing an Alt bier next week and need >some suggestions on the hopping. I'm thinking of >First Wort Hopping (merely to experiment with it). >I'll be using 4-5% Saaz or Tett's for the FWH. How >much bitterness should I attribute to my overall IBUS >for this? Is there any easy calculation out there? The original way of FWHing was to simply move the usual flavor hops to FWH and ignore the bitterness that results. I find it worthwhile to at least keep in mind the FWH bitterness contribution so I don't overhop. IOW, don't hop at the maximum for the style. The fWH bitterness is a smooth, clean bitterness, and if you read the original German reports (available somewhere in HBD.org) you'll note that the taste panels generally found the FWH pilsners to have a more pleasing bitterness even though they analyzed higher ppm of isomerized alpha acids (IBUs). So, if you have an alt recipe that you like that has late addition flavor hops, just chuck 'em in the first wort and let 'em ride. I still like to add some aroma hops when I shut off the burner. As I just posted, it can be nice to experiment using only FWHs. In this case you'd probably want to consider the bittering contribution as the same as full boil hops. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:21:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Ronnie Anderson" <lerxst at webmages.com> Subject: splitting a 5 gallon batch I'm taking the all grain plunge this weekend (if my false bottom arrives), and have a question about brewpots. I live on the second floor in an apartment with a gas stove. It takes 30 minutes or more to get 3 gallons of wort to a full boil, so buying a 30 quart pot and trying to boil 6 gallons of wort on one burner will be next to impossible. Since I cannot have propane on the balcony, and am not going to lug 6 gallons of water up and down the stairs, I was planning on buying another 20 qt pot and splitting the wort between the two. So, is it better to sparge into one big bucket and then split the batch between the two pots out of the bucket? Or is sparging directly from the tun to the first pot, then switching the hose to the second pot after the first one is full, ok? If I go with the second option, there will be a gravity difference between the wort in the pots. Won't that make my hop utilization different between the two? Is it worth adding the extra step or not? TIA, Ronnie Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:20:29 -0500 From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net> Subject: CARBOY Shamrock Open - March 16, 2002 To all potential entrants, stewards, and judges... The 6th Annual Carboy Shamrock Open Homebrew Competition will be held March 16, 2002 at the BB&Y Restaurant in Raleigh, NC. The competition is registered with the BJCP, and is a qualifying event for NCBoY. Entry deadline is March 10, 2002 at 5 pm. Online entries are preferred. Entry rules and information can be found at http://www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm A raffle is also being planned, and lunch is provided for judges and stewards. Please contact mpdixon at ipass.net with any questions or to sign up as a judge or steward. Cheers, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:29:20 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: gelatin, etc. Chester Waters <cwaters at cox.net> writes from Omaha, Ne about gelatin >I'd appreciate your suggestions on amount to use FOR >PROTEIN HAZE, whether you see any flavor/hop, or heading/mouthfeel loss >(compared with age-settling), and how/if you sterilize it for use. I'd better not guess on this because I don't remember. I'm sure I've read. Some of our members who didn't bail ChemE before p-chem (as I did) might be able to better answer. I think of it as you do, as a cask fining agent like isinglass. I think it might take a little hops bitterness, but it doesn't seem significant if it does. I don't notice any other changes. I've had several other questions about how I use gelatin. I just dump a packet (1/4 oz., or 7 grams) of no-name grocery store unflavored gelatin in a cup or so of cold water and microwave it until it just starts to form bubbles around the edge, stirring occasionally to avoid lumps. Then when I've racked about 1/3 of the beer, I add some beer (1-2 cups) to the gelatin, then pour it into the keg or carboy. I make sure that the flow of the beer stirs it up (and I always CO2 purge the keg or carboy before I start). In a carboy, you can see the top layer begin to clear with an hour or two. Cold beer (cellar temperature of low 50s F, or 10-12C) helps. BTW, thanks for the nice words. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:47:22 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: The Jethro Gump Report "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at home.com> wrote from Des Moines, Iowa: >the 5 gram sachet is really a remnant of the yeast packaging handed >down from bread yeast manufacturers protocols. Not sure that is the reason as bread yeast is packed in 1/4 ounce (7 gram) envelopes. Rob also asks about Bob Hall's <rallenhall at hotmail.com> excerpt from "The Lager Beer Industry in 19th Century America," by John Hall (no relation), German Life magazine, Dec/Jan, 1996. This relates how lager yeast was brought to Mmilwaukee by Herr Wagner, a brewery worker at Best's Brewery. > Curious that this reference of 1840 predates what I had previously >learned about Dreher and Sedelmeyer, concerning their work leading to the >first lagers in 1841....subsequently to Plzen in 1842...and the first pure >cultures of lagers in 1883'ish..... > Anybody got any better references than I do? The oldest reference I have is "One Hundred of Brewing" (Western Brewer, 1903, reprinted by Arno Press, 1974), p. 207: "The following, furnished by Mr. Charles C. Wolf, of the old firm of Engel & Wolf ... : "The first lager beer brewed in American was that of John Wagner in 1840, who had a small brewery in the rear of his house [in] Philadelphia. ... Wagner brought the first lager beer yeast to this country from a brewery in Bavaria in which he had been a brewmaster." Obviously the memory of an old man in 1903 of dates 60+ years earlier is open to question, but this date is often cited. I wonder how it jibes with the story of Herr Wagner and Milwaukee. Someone with more time could find references to the dates of lager brewing in Europe and the first isolation of pure culture yeast. I have the books right here, just not the time. See Dave Miller's Pilsener book and the Fixes Vienna book (p. 6). Dreher and Sedlmayr introduced lager yeast to their Vienna And Munich breweries in 1841, but the Bavarian monks had been using it before that. As Fix writes, "the success of this change was instantaneous, and news spread quickly." It's clear that the early 1840s represented a sea change in brewing. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:39:00 -0600 From: "cwaters" <cwaters at cox.net> Subject: Easy Masher in Boil Kettle Rick Seibt Mentor, OH asks: "Has anyone ever used an EasyMasher in the kettle to help filter out break & hops? I've got a 3-tier system and I pump from the Kettle to the CFC. My concern is that the EM will clog from the break." Rick: It sure WILL plug up when pulled hard by a pump. What I did is to make a manifold to place two screens on either side of the boil kettle (bend them right up against the sides) and then after the boil (wait after the fire's out 10-15 minutes for the kettle and wort to come to thermal equilibrium) whirlpool/stir and let that settle until still. Most of the break material piles in the center, and any remaining hops (I use whole flower for this reason) that pull down to the screens act as a filter. Start your pump with outflow nearly closed and only open it up as this natural filter settles around the screens. You'll need to throttle down the pump anyway to keep your outflow temp from the CFC where you want it. Works great for me now, but took awhile to figure this out. BTW, I used a Sure Screen (or a name similar - can't remember - identical in every way with the EasyMasher but only about $9. Bet your local HB shop has or can order these. Also, they exactly press-fit into the male end of sweat-fit copper unions, elbows, etc (3/8", I think) . Called a 'street union', I believe. Makes removing the screens for cleaning a piece of cake. Hope this helps. Chester Waters Omaha, Ne. (Renerian Exile) 'People who claim to know everything are particularly irritating to those of us who really do' Ben Rogge (1967) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:20:12 -0600 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: When to start All-Grain Dunn, Drew A. <Drew.Dunn at jhuapl.edu> probes: >I have only brewed a few batches ( a half-dozen or so ) which have been >extract with specialty grains, but I have an itch to try all grain. I >understand the need for extra equipment and add complexity. I look at these >as more fun, not more headache. My brewing buddy (also strictly extract) >argues that there is still so much to explore with extract such as different >yeast strains, hop variety, hop rates, etc. to keep one busy before >stepping up to all grain. Does anyone have an advice? Is it too early to >switch to all-grain? Would I be better off experiment with various aspect >in the extract realm then switch to all-grain after I have a better feel for >them? Opinions are like rear ends --- everybody has one. [There are other similarities, but we will let that pass for now.] And since I am not shy about sharing mine (opinion, that is), particularly since it will probably represent a different view than those that will be presented by others, here it comes. Before saying anything else, I will simply state that regardless of anyone's opinion, you should do what you want. There are few absolutes when it comes to homebrewing. This is one of the things that makes it so enjoyable. I happen to feel that the path I took worked out very well for me, and so I present it for your consideration. When I first started brewing (a long time ago in a galaxy far far away), like almost everyone, I started with what I now call "kit" beers. You buy a can of "instant beer" (hopped malt extract) and more or less follow the directions on the can, or (better) those of the homebrew shop proprietor. Before long, I quit buying the kits and moved into what I now call "extract" brewing. You buy bulk malt extract and add specialty grains and hops. And like you, the urge to advance to all-grain was strong, so I tried it. I called that batch "PITA Pale Ale", because it was exactly that - --- a total Pain In The Opinion. It was not that the beer turned out bad. It was just a lot of trouble to make, not really any better than what I had brewed previously, and I knew that the chance of making a batch to match it was nearly impossible. My equipment was lousy, and it just took all the joy out of the process. I decided that all-grain brewing was fraught with factors that would make it difficult to make the same beer consistently. And while I now know that this is not the case, perhaps it was fortunate that I came to this conclusion at that time. I resolved to forego future attempts at AGB, and concentrate on improving my base skills. There were two goals that I deemed important. The first was to be able to formulate my own recipes, starting every brew with the same base (bulk light unhopped malt extract), adding the right specialty grains and hops, and in the right amounts, to make any desired style of beer. The second was to be able to take a batch of beer I liked, and make a second (third, fourth, etc.) batch that came out identical to the first. I wanted to be able to make subtle changes to a recipe (like use a different hop variety) and know that any differences I observed were the result of the change, and not because my brewing process was different. The first goal was achieved by research; the second goal required practice, practice, practice. I got to the point where I looked upon all-grain brewers with a certain amount of disdain. They did a whole lot more work than I and generally, the results were certainly no better. More experienced brewers, I decided, simply made better beer, regardless of whether they make it from grain or extract. [Incidentally, I still feel that this statement is absolutely true.] I was proud of the fact that my extract beers did not have that "all-grain twang". <snicker> And then a curious thing happened. I made a batch of one of my favorite beers using my tried and true recipe. Nothing went wrong in the brewing or the fermentation, but the beer was sour and simply gawdawful, and I had no idea why. I happened to be poking around in my homebrew supply store when another brewer brought in a sample of his latest for comment from the beer guru. This beer was sour and awful and he could not understand what went wrong. Naturally, this got my attention. The proprietor explained that the manufacturer had made a batch of bad extract and this had been used in his (and as it happened, my) beer. It had been infected during the manufacturing process, and although the infection was subsequently killed off, the damage had been done and the extract was sour. [When queried about what they would do about it, the manufacturer simply laughed and responded that we should all be happy that they had made an extract perfect for producing lambics. I do not think the proprietor ever bought anything from that manufacturer again, and I know that I did not.] It hit me like a ton of bricks. One of my primary goals (consistency) was compromised by the fact that I did not have control of the entire brewing process. Over the next few days, I acquired the equipment I needed and my next batch was all-grain. Even though I might still brew an extract based beer from time to time, I have never looked back. After practice, practice, and more practice, I now find that I can control the all-grain process well enough to make the same beer over and over again, just like before. Now, the only aspects of the brewing process that I do not control are the farming of the grains and hops, and malting. [And if I start getting inconsistent results because some maltster gets sloppy ...] And there was a side benefit to all this. Since I had formulated my recipes starting from a standard light unhopped malt extract, it was a snap to convert them to use a standard pale malt. I found that formulation of new (now all grain) recipes was no more complicated than it had been. [This is significant because, IMHO, recipe formulation is a serious pitfall for inexperienced all-grain brewers.] So it sounds like I agree with your brewing buddy. Make incremental steps towards AGB by working with the specialty grains you need when brewing from a base malt extract. Learn how to infuse hot water into those specialty grains and control the temperatures. Learn to maximize the amount of "goodness" you get from those grains by rinsing them properly, without leaching out tannins. Guess what! The best results are achieved by using the same techniques you would use if ALL the malt was grain. And you need exactly the same equipment albeit on a smaller scale perhaps. You just do not have to wait for starch conversion in specialty grains. Most of all, enjoy what you do and how you do it. Make beer that you really like no matter what it takes! Larry Bristol Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:39:37 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: FWH/clarification Jeff Renner writes ... > >Maybe a pils with aroma of Northern Brewer rather than Saaz, is less > >than ideal, but it's not "less than desirable". > >[...] Cluster as FWHs in a Classic American Pilsner (CAP) several years ago > and got a distinct black currant or berry flavor (not particularly an > aroma). This is the flavor of Cluster that is normally boiled away > when it is used for bittering, but I found the beer nearly spoiled by > it. It was sure "less than desirable" for me! People actually > thought I'd used berries in the beer. I see- if it's UNdesirable you try it on your friends instead of the sewer ? ;^) ... black currant ... A couple weeks back everyone was dumping on a beer writer who was describing beers in the sort of fanciful analogy language used in describing wines. I don't know the writer and have no opinion of his descriptive abilities, but I do know this. Nearly all printed descriptions of beer component flavors are so pitifully inadaquate that it's a bit like communicating with grunts and nods. You can't even find basics like whether a yeast produces 4VG or high esters or if a hop is citrusy without talking to someone who has used it. Better descriptions are desparately needed. Al Korzonas provided the only good comparative descriptions of speciality malts, hops and yeasts I've seen in his book "Homebrewing: Volume 1", and trustworthy Al also described Cluster (and Brewers Gold, Northdown & Phoenix) as having a black currant flavor. "Black current" is an unfortunate description since most Americans aren't familiar with the flavor. It's not blackberry, and most of the North American products labelled black current are really "Ribes oderatum" or a cross of black current (Ribes nigrum) and other species. Well that's probably close enough but not the same. To add to the confusion Europeans are likely to describe an off-note in beer as "Ribes" when they are referring to the mercaptan-ish aroma of the plants leaves. Anyway Cluster is rather low in the three essential oils mentioned, but my hunch is the flavor you are referring to may be geraniol and related compounds. I'm a little surprised this survives the boil, but perhaps I'm missing something or the explanation of FWH is incomplete. > I think I'd stick to the finer aroma-type hops for FWH - noble hops, > Goldings, Cascade, etc. Of course - and correct selection of hops flavor/aroma that match style is very important when the beer calls for prominant hop flavor aroma, but most accidental substitutions aren't disasterous. === Chester Waters makes some good points about wort clarification ... especially that gelatin and isinglas are essentially similar - that is they are solubilized proteins which can adhere to yeast. Also that time will cure most hazes eventually. The other common HB fining agents - PVPP and polyclarAT are plastic protein-like molecules that are more likely to bond to polyphenols than to yeast. Carageenen (Irish Moss) is a complex carbohydrate with an even more complex mode of action in the boiler. Haze is a complex problem and without some advanced measurement techniques a nearly intractible problem. Every fining agent works under some circumstance, but some hazes are not likely to respond to any fining agent. I do think that Chester (and maybe JeffR) missed one crucial point when Jeff wrote ... >Two weeks in the secondaries and it was still hazy, so I >racked it to two new carboys with a packet of gelatin. The next >morning it was crystal clear Racking introduces oxygen which acts to oxidize and polymerize phenols which in turn form larger haze particles which sediment faster. The gelatin adds additional protein which also interacts with the polyphenolics involved in a protein haze. Protein haze is an optic effect when a high enough concentration of particles of the 'right' size appear. The particles are protein+phenol complexes with polyphenols acting as 'glue' connecting several protein molecules. After haze has formed the only solutions that I am aware of involve adding proteases to reduce the protein sizes, or alternatively to increase the complexes enough to cause them to sediment quickly. Adding proteases will impact beer in othe ways. You can increase the complexes by adding enough tannoids (polyphenols) to cause these complexes to grow. Unfortunately it's difficult to gauge the amount of tannoids needed. A too small addition may increase the amount of haze rather than decreasing it. It's not uncommon for example for a clear beer to form a protein haze when dry hopping increases the polyphenolic levels. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:55:30 -0600 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: EasyMasher in the kettle and Alt hopping Hi all, Rick Seibt asks about using an EasyMasher in his kettle to filter out the hops, hoping to avoid plugging up his counterflow chiller. Rick, this works really well with whole hops, setting up a nice filter bed that holds out the hot break, too. It's a bit dicey with pellet hops, which seem to combine with the hot break to clog up the works. If you use all whole hops, you're home free. You can get away with about 50% pellets, 50% whole hops in standard beers, but with high gravity beers, the excessive hot break seems to rule out using any pellets at all. Rick also asks about hopping schedules for Altbiers, paticularly about FWHing with this style. Rick, this works really nicely for alts, especially if you use mostly Munich malt for the grist. There's no general consensus on the IBU contribution from FWH, but many, including me, calculate it at the same utilization level as a 25 minute boil addition. For my alt recipe, I've been using 95% Weissheimer Munich, 5% crystal (40-50L,) about 10 IBUs of Spalt Select FWH, and 40 IBUs of Spalt at 60 minutes, with the Wyeast 1007 German ale yeast, at an OG of about 1.052 or so. The competing factors of assertive bitterness, tons of Munich malt and a yeast that tends to give a dry, clean finish is quite interesting. A recent batch won a first at the Ohio State Fair last summer. Rick, I see you're from Mentor, Ohio. Have you made it to a SNOBs (Society of Northeast Ohio Brewers) meeting yet? Check out the web page at www.beersnobs.org if you're interested. Paul Shick Cleveland Heights, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:23:29 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Acid in Mead The simple fact with respect to the acidity of mead is that there isn't any to speak of. Even though honey measures at a quite low pH there isn't any buffering capacity to back it up. Thus your test kit is telling the truth. For all intents and purposes the only acid you'll find in mead is the acid you add. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:09:19 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: fanciful analogy language Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... S.A. quips... > A couple weeks back everyone was dumping on a beer writer who > was describing beers in the sort of fanciful analogy language > used in describing wines. You do him a great honor. No, the descriptive phrases used are more akin to the sort of fanciful analogical language used in Monty Python skits. Your point is well taken - but I'd hate to get score sheets back with this yahoo's prose splattered all over it :^) - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:57:31 -0500 From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com> Subject: RE When to start All-Grain / Beer vs Soup > Is it too early to switch to all-grain? Would I be better off >experiment with various aspect in the extract realm then >switch to all-grain after I have a better feel for them? The methods of homebrewing beer are very similar to different methods of making soup. There are basically three ways to make each. The easiest way to make soup is to take a can of soup and heat it up. The soup is usually decent but no one will be raving about it. The intermediate way is take a can of soup and add your own vegetables, noodles and/or seasoning. It's sort of your own, but someone else made much of it. The final way to make soup is to cook your own stock and add your own ingredients. The first and second methods have limited risks of failure but have limited rewards. Also the question that begs to be answered is, "did you really make it yourself or just heat it up?" Making soup from is scratch is more risky and certainly more time consuming. But if you are going to call yourself a "soup chef", only one of those methods seems to make sense. So to more directly respond to your question; yes, your friend is right in that you could expand your experience in the domain of mini-mash. However, by no means do you have to explore that area before you can jump head first into the world of all-grain mashing. The best time to switch to all grain is when you have the bug to do it. Although I am now mainly an all-grain brewer, I have been known to throw together a mini-mash w/extract batch when I am short on time or energy. Don Lake Orlando, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:56:38 -0500 From: "Mike Pensinger" <Beermkr at bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: HERMS/fermentors >>David Passaretti writes: DaveP> I am attempting to automate a HERMS (thank you Nate, Bill, CD, DaveP> and others for your input) system and have at my disposal a DaveP> Gefran 3300 PID controller. It has what is called an analog DaveP> output (0-10V). I know nothing about these controllers. Does DaveP> anyone know if there is anyway to use this controller to turn a DaveP> mag drive pump on/off or control a solenoid? My suggestion is to hook the controller up on the workbench and hook a multimeter to the output. If the output jumps from 0 to 10V then you can use it to drive a solid state relay. I use this sort of setup on my system to drive both the heaters and the mash pump via a Pulse Width Modulator. Mike Pensinger beermkr at bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr/ Norfolk Virginia - [551.4, 132.9] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:18:39 -0800 (PST) From: Gregg Ferlin <gferlin at yahoo.com> Subject: Grain Mill Review Article in Zymurgy I recall a reveiw published in Zymurgy in the last 12 to 18 months on grain mills. I think it covered 4 popular mills. I now can't find the issue amongst my collection. Anybody remember it and what issue it was in? I've already searched the archives, I just want to re-read the article before I make my purchase. Gregg Ferlin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:55:54 -0500 From: "Rich Medina" <gothambrewer at bigfoot.com> Subject: EZ masher Lurk mode off.... Rick Seibt Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com> writes in HBD # 3858, "has anyone ever used an EasyMasher in the kettle to help filter out break & hops? I've got a 3-tier system and I pump from the Kettle to the CFC. My concern is that the EM will clog from the break." I have tried using the EZ masher as you have described. Much to my chagrin the few times I have used this device it has either clogged from the pelletized hops or bent from the weight of the immersion coil creating a crimp on the SS mesh. While I am sure it does a respectable job at mashing, it is a bonafide PITA to have 10+ gallons of chilled wort trickling into a carboy! I suppose you can use leaf hops with your EZ masher and since you have a CFC you won't have to worry about bending the SS mesh but I would recommend using something less susceptible to clogging i.e. a false bottom. Lurk mode on! Rich Medina Gothambrewery, NYC gothambrewer at bigfoot.com You can observe alot just by watching - Yogi Berra Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:35:42 -0500 From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu Subject: Shiner Bock Recipe (?) I recently drove through a good deal of Texas, and was challenged to attempt to brew a Shiner Bock. Does anyone have a good, all-grain recipefor this brew? ..Darrell [Plattsburgh, NY, 545.7, 72.3 Rennerian/ 44.41.58 N. Lat, 73.27.12 W Lon] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:46:56 -0500 From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Copper copper >Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:21:43 +0100 >From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int >Subject: Copper copper >Looking aroung the local antique junk market, I spotted a >large copper pot with a price tag of 25 euro. It was still >there at the end of the market, but at 15 euros, and I am >now the proud owner of a +/- 200 litre copper vessel with >an antique brass valve attached. >It is roughly 80 cm across and 60 cm high (you translate >to funny measures) with a flat bottom, no tin or other >covering inside. It is almost certainly an industrial >strength jam boiler. Any ideas what to do with it? (No, I >will not ship it to you.) Bjorn, You might check to see if your measures are funny. A round pot 80 cm in diameter and 60 cm tall has a volume of about 300000 cc or +/- 300 litres! Reif Hammond Durham, NH Return to table of contents
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