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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: CO2 through door (Nate Wahl)
  Tubing - Moving Brews, Where are you? ("Michael R. Roesch")
  Re: Fermentation (Jeff Renner)
  high FG extract beers (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Brewing Software Recommendations? ("Joel Plutchak")
  water analysis (Marc Sedam)
  re: extract wheat woes ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  CO2 thru the door.... ("Smith,Brian H")
  maple sap....in place of water : will the grain convert? (leavitdg)
  Your water analysis. (John Palmer)
  Starkbierfest (Phil Wilcox)
  Chest Freezer Size (Jeff)
  dried lager yeasts ("Robin Griller")
  WLP036 suggestions (Greg Remake)
  Correction on Re: CO2 through door (Nate Wahl)
  Beer in the secondary : how long? (Arnaud VIEZ)
  Old Brown ("David Craft")
  Fermentation (Al Klein)
  RADLER ("Fred Scheer")
  WEIZEN ("Fred Scheer")


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:11:09 -0500
From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Re: CO2 through door

In HBD3876, Doug Hurst asked about using a corny gas-in connect on
either side of a refridgerator door for a disconnectable means of
getting CO2 into the housing.

Great idea!  And yes, those threads on cornies are a rather unique bird.
I finally found through trial-and-error (went to the local hardware
store with fitting in-hand) that these fittings are very close to the
male half of a 3/8" Compression fitting, not a pipe size at all!  The
sealing surface seems to be tapered on the kegs rather than round like
the compression fittings, but with a firm tightening it does seal gas
tight.  Brass smashes.

I ended up making a 'hose washer' that connects up to the brewery garden
hose, for flushing out  keg outlet lines after use.  Very usefull. (But
either have the hoses clamped on the picnic fawcett or open it before
pressurizing with city water pressure!!!) A picture can be seen at:

 http://www.cros.net/cruiser/fittings.jpg

In addition, the lower half of the photo shows a spray nozzle strainer
that I found at the local farm supply store. Its a 100 mesh SS screen,
and there is now a length of 1/4" flared copper tubing slodered to the
flange end; I'm going to try this as a substitute for a more expensive
oxygenating stone. Much more cleanable. They have 200 mesh screens also
available if the bubbles aren't tiny enough.  Thoughts?

Regards,
Nate Wahl
aka Oogie Wa Wa
Oak Harbor, OH


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:38:54 -0500
From: "Michael R. Roesch" <mroesch at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Tubing - Moving Brews, Where are you?

As another person has posted, Moving brews appears to be "shut down"
and not responding to e-mails.  Does anyone have an alternate source
for the high temp Norpene tubing (that does not require a roll purchase)?

Thanks in advance!


Michael R. Roesch
webmaster at valuepricehosting.com
www.valuepricehosting.com



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:48:35 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fermentation

"Snyder,Gary,TSG" <Gary.Snyder at nyscot.ang.af.mil> writes:

>	I am new to home brewing and have a question about fermentation.  I
>am in the process of making an ale with all fuggles hops.  My fermentation
>process started within 3 hours and within 6 hours I had a pretty rapid
>fermentation.  This only lasted about 30 hours then all activity stopped.
>Is this alright?

Welcome to a great hobby and HBD, Gary.  Your fermentation speed is 
not uncommon with some dry yeasts or large starters with any yeast. 
What kind did you use, and how much, and what was the temperature of 
the wort and surroundings?

If you have a secondary fermenter (a glass carboy is most common), 
you can rack your beer to that and let it settle until it's clear. 
Otherwise, you can just leave it in the primary fermenter until you 
bottle it.

I'd guess you are somewhere in NY from your email address.  It's 
always nice to let us know.  You might find that there is another 
brewer you didn't know about right in your neighborhood who could 
help.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:26:01 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: high FG extract beers

There have been quite a few posts recently regarding the
high final gravity of extract beers.  I have had quite a bit
of success using "pilsner enzyme" or "amylase enzyme" (I
suspect they're the same) sold by many HB stores on the
web.  Add this to your fermenter and it will generally knock
down the FG by at least 6-8 points.  I suppose there's a
chance it will drop the gravity too much, but I've never had
that problem nor have the people I've suggested it to.
Seems to end around 1.010.

Good luck.

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:26:52 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing Software Recommendations?

Bryan Keary asked:
>Does anyone have any recommendations for brewing software?

   I like one of the "early" web resources, The Beer
Recipator, which currently can be found at The Brewery
web site <http://www.brewery.org/>.  It's a server-side
application so has some of the (minor IMO) drawbacks of
such a system and could use some ingredient database
updating, but it's great for quickly working up and
tweaking a recipe.
   Promash is more complete but I find suffers from the
common Windows malady of click-itis, e.g., too many clicks
needed to do stuff like add a bunch of hops and grains.
It's tough on the tendons.

Joel Plutchak

Effervescently massaging massive muscles mid-tendon, midway
betwixt the cascading corn and somnolent soybeans of glorious
wind-swept East-Central Illinois. (Rennerian coords are so
dry and boring. ;-)






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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:45:03 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: water analysis

Greg Collins (the notorious GMC) has questions about his
water and its effects on dark beer.

Based on the water analysis you should be able to make
beautiful beer of any style without mucking about with your
water.  Maybe a pre-boil to drop some carbonate, but that
still shouldn't be a big deal.

I might suggest that you're over-sparging or perhaps boiling
the specialty grains if you're brewing extract beers.  The
bitterness could be attributed to extracting tannins from
the grains.  If it's best described as bitter and "drying"
on the tongue (like chewing a red grape skin), then it could
be tannins.

Otherwise, I dunno...

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:01 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re: extract wheat woes

  Someone added to the complaint of high terminal gravities when
brewing an extract wheat beer. One commonality jumped out
while reading the second posting; Cooper's extract! Not that it is
a bad extract from my experience but I do know their new dry
malt is 60% fermentable compared to the more typical 70%
of other manufacturers.
  Maybe also related: I was browsing though the Lallemand
site and noticed mention of someone doing a study of
malt extracts and his findings were that some extracts
had 80+% of their fermentables as D-glucose. If I remember
correctly there is a tendency for yeast, when subjected to high
glucose substrates, to lose the power to ferment more complex
saccharides. The study did mention that this maybe was _not_
from adding glucose to the extract but from perhaps excessive use
of bacterial source A-amylase and amyloglucosidase in production
of the extract.
  Just something to think about.
 I never had an attenuation problem with 3068 and Munton's wheat
extract. In fact if I've forgotten to brew a beer promised for a club
meeting, this is one that I know I can knock out in 10 days and
it is met will general acceptance.

NPL


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:55:26 -0600
From: "Smith,Brian H" <bhsmith at bogmil.gylrd.com>
Subject: CO2 thru the door....

Doug,

Why not try a air tool fitting.  Since you want a quick connect on both
sides of the refrigerator thread use the connector used with air tools.
They are relatively inexpensive and very available.  I think I would put the
"male" end on the hose from my CO2 cylinder.  Attach the female end on the
outside if the fridge.  Put the male end on the inside of the fridge and the
female end leading to the kegs.  That way the kegs would stay pressurized
when you disconnect the inside fitting.

Brian Smith
Big Ring Brewery and Winery
Bogalusa, La



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:41:40 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: maple sap....in place of water : will the grain convert?

Hey, I just found a source for some genuine maple sap....and was 
thinking:
could one use maple sap in place of water .... and would it convert the
malted barley...and would one even notice the difference?  I know that
depending upon the type of maple one can boil down 30-50 gallons so as
to just get one gallon of syrup...so I suppose that 3-4 gallons of sap
could equate to a cup or two of maple syrup .....

Has anyone tried this...or has anyone thoughts on the feasability of
this sort of experiment?

 .Darrell


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:48:46 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Your water analysis.

Greg from Kentucky asked why his darker beers seemed very bitter and gave
his water analysis. To whit:
PH = 7.0
Hardness = 79
Calcium = 24.6 ppm
Bicarbs = 41 ppm
Sodium = 10.62 ppm
Chloride = 23.1 ppm
Sulfate = 21.7 ppm
Magnesium = ? (too little to fuss with he said)

Jeez that's great water! Gives you a lot of room to add stuff without
screwing it up. If you read Chapter 15 in my online book, you will see that
you get a residual alkalinity of 5.7 pH with a base-malt-only mash. In other
words, you can hit your target mash pH with only base malt like Pilsen can.
But when it comes to dark beers, you need to add some balancing bicarbonate.
Either CaCO3 or NaCO3. That chapter will help you figure out how much to
use.
Good Brewing,
John

- -- 
John Palmer
jjpalmer at realbeer.com

Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:37:12 -0500
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Starkbierfest

Chuck,

You will need to find the Kloster Andechs (http://www.andechs.de/) in
Hershing (a trian, a bus and a short walk up the mountain) south of
Munich. It is the best Doppelbock the world has to offer. Hands down, no
contest. Salvator at the brewery is not better than this, in fact it
tasted like a bock not the doppel I was used to having here in the US. I
was there in March/April of 2000 at the end of starkbier season.  Can't
wait to go back and spend a month in Munchen trying to find all the
breweries. Forschungs Braurie is a real "local" kind of place. 3rd
generation brewpub brewers speak adequate english, gave a tour and
traded Homebrew for their brew--No Filtering! Excellent food. there is a
new edition of The Beerdrinkers guide to munich Buy it! You can read it
on the plane ride over if you stick to it. Excellent Source. Don't go to
Munich with out it.

Prauge: Ah Prauge, most beautiful city in europe.We stayed at the
Pension Andel in the Andel section of town, directly across the subway
stop from Staropomen Brewery. They had a stout online. need i say more?
U-Fleku is a must stop. Beer is like an english/Czech mild very unique.
Atmosphere is very german beer hall. Traveling oommpa band and drunk
loud italian soccer players singing American Pie can be expected, but
any brewery founded on site in 1499 is a worthwhile stop. An excellent
place to hangout in. For dinner go to NOVOMESTSKY PIVOVAR its a train
stop or two out of the aldstat area.  What a cool subway unless your
clostrophobi--the 60 degree downangle 150 yard escalators are a bit
intimidating after a night of revelry.

Pilzen is only 2 hours away and if you want to find the world's best
pilsner Urquel is where you have to go. use their web site to arrange
for a tour with a real brewer who speaks english. We got to go places
the tours dont get to go see. there is no skuniness in Pilzen, and the
diacytel just makes it go down SMOOTH!!!! I can't drink 10 glasses of
water in night, but we had 10 rounds of pils the night we got there. two
of even got up in the morning.  though if your driving to Vienna, Budvar
is on the way...

Budapest: Try the HardRock Cafe. Are you sure you can't trade for Koln?
good luck, my Hungarian uncle tells me its all Continental Pilsner
Lagers...

We had way more fun than should be allowed... I count the 24hours from
Koln to Dusseldorf to Bamburg to Pilsen as the single best day of my
life. 6 world class beers in 4 different Styles drank at their origin in
24 hours.  Munich is the only other place in the world you "Might" be
able to achieve this. I'll give you a hint: If you start or end at
Andechs you will get a 2-fer The Helles has no equal either. and the
Dunkel, it will be a damn good day if you can find a finer Dunkel than
Andechts.  Happy Beer Hunting.

Phil Wilcox



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:53:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff <duckinchicago at yahoo.com>
Subject: Chest Freezer Size

Just wanted to take a quick survey of people that have
chest freezers as to what size they have and what they
think is the ideal size.  I'd like to get at least a
12 cu/ft size, but I'm not sure if that's a big enough
size.  I'd like to be able to fit at least 2 carboys
or some combination of 2 cornies and maybe one carboy.
 My main constraint is that it can't be too big or
else I won't be able to get it in my basement. Private
email is fine or whatever.

Jeff Hertz
Glen Ellyn, IL
(Had my Renn. coordinates on a sticky note that I
lost-will have to figure it out again.)



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:20:47 -0500
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: dried lager yeasts

Hi all,

As Dr. Pivo has some experience with saflager yeast and as it sounds like
he has subjected it to some torture, perhaps he would be kind enough to let
us know what his experiences have been with it (i.e. what temperature
ranges it is happy in etc.).

Robin



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:49:07 -0600
From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu>
Subject: WLP036 suggestions

Hello all,

I've got an altbier fermenting and would like to use the WLP036 Dusseldorf 
Alt yeast cake for another batch of something.  Any suggestions for 
all-grain recipes that would make good use of this yeast?  This yeast is 
reportedly the same as Wyeast 1338 Euoropean Ale.  My understanding is that 
it finishes relatively sweet and can be fruity, although these aspects are 
somewhat controlable.  If you've had good results using this yeast before, 
I'd appreciate your comments.

Cheers,

Greg



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:18:19 -0500
From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Correction on Re: CO2 through door

HBD'ers

My sincerest apologies, but I left a word out of a previous post.  The
threaded part of cornies that the In/Out fittings go on are very close
to male 3/8" FLARE fittings, not just plain compression fittings as
stated.

I hope that didn't cause too much consternation!

Now I'm thinking of what to do with a hardpiped corny, since flare nuts
and tubing should also fit....

Regards,
Nate Wahl


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:57:50 +0100
From: Arnaud VIEZ <arnaud at viez.net>
Subject: Beer in the secondary : how long?

Hello happy brewers,

My beer (Newcastle Brown from "Brew European beers at home" by Wheeler &
Protz) is in the secondary since December 25th. The gravity was then
1015.
On January 21st the gravity was 1011, on February 26th it was 1006.
But it is still fermenting, bubbling at a relatively low rate.
The last sample was bright, smelling good, reasonably yeasty taste.
My question : can I bottle now without fearing bottle bombs, or do I
wait until all activity ceases?

Thank you in advance.



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:50:06 -0500
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Old Brown

Greetings,

Could someone review this recipe off of the Recipator Database and tell =
me what they think.  I am looking for the certain sourness and can it be =
acheived by souring part of the mash?  I hestitate to introduce bacteria =
(on purose) into my brewery!  Also would raspberries work as well as =
cherries.  We have a hard time finding sour cherries around here!

I tried to contact the author of the recipe, but his email bounced. Here =
is the link to the recipe.

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?group=3D27&item=3D314

Regards,

David Craft
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:06:09 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Fermentation

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 00:10:07 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Gary Snyder asked:

>I am new to home brewing and have a question about fermentation.  I
>am in the process of making an ale with all fuggles hops.  My fermentation
>process started within 3 hours and within 6 hours I had a pretty rapid
>fermentation.  This only lasted about 30 hours then all activity stopped.
>Is this alright?

The speed of fermentation depends on the temperature of the wort and
the type of yeast, but I've had Munton's dry yeast run about that fast
if the temperature was close to 70F, and produce a pretty good ale.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:56:21 -0600
From: "Fred Scheer" <fhopheads at msn.com>
Subject: RADLER

Radler is mostly made with "LIMONADE", which is
either 7 UP or a German locally produced
LIMO, based on lemons and lots of sugar
and high carbonated. LIMONADE has
~ 5.5 - 6 g CO2.
So, if you want a German Radler drink,
7 UP or Sprite will do.
Good Luck
Fred Scheer






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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:13:28 -0600
From: "Fred Scheer" <fhopheads at msn.com>
Subject: WEIZEN

I'm not sure if the bottle conditioning yeast is the same
as the PRIMARY fermentation yeast in the case of
Schneider Weisse. We have to think as to
the job the yeast has to perform: PRIMARY FERMENTATION
vs. BOTTLE CONDITIONING of weizen bier.
While I was in Frankenmuth, MI (about 50 miles north
of Renner) I analyzed lots of the German Weizen beers
for the yeast in the bottle. With ERDINGER, for example,
I found it was a bottom-fermented yeast, to be exactly
it was the old 34/70 strain I found. With the other Weizens
which I analyzed, mostly I found a mixture of yeasts, sometimes
Bottom and Top fermenting yeast mixed together.
See ya,
Fred Scheer




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