HOMEBREW Digest #3879 Sat 02 March 2002

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  RE: Diacetyl problem in a Dopplebock (mark alfaro)
  saflager ("Braam Greyling")
  A great disturbance in the force. Like a hundred brewers... (Pat Babcock)
  Souring Beer ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Kegging at 7000' ("Dennis Collins")
  Pressure Canning Wort ("Kevin Eggemeyer")
  Basements and drainage ("Steve Heffner")
   ("Michael R. Roesch")
  SIMPLE MEAD ("George Krafcisin")
  Re: Mash PH/ Water Analysis ("Steve Alexander")
  Guinness "tang" ("Houseman, David L")
  DCL yeast (Daveandbetta930)
  RE: howling savage banter and Golden Promise (Brian Lundeen)
  RE:  Maple Sap Beer ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Beer styles ("Houseman, David L")
  diacetyl (Marc Sedam)
  maple sap (Himsbrew)
  SS washing machine hose wrap beats EZ masher ("Bret Morrow")
  10th Annual Spirit of Free Beer ("phil sides jr")
  Sparkaloid ("Mike Brennan")
  Happy Valley Mill owner (Paul Kensler)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:13:35 -0800 From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com> Subject: RE: Diacetyl problem in a Dopplebock Hi Wally, At my homebrew club meeting this past Tuesday, Dr. Chris White of White Labs discussed this very topic. Dr White suggests that you perform a diacetyl rest just after the exponential growth phase of the yeast when you still have some airlock activity, and while the beer is still on the yeast in the primary. Depending on the diacetyl production characteristics of the yeast strain you are using, the duration of the diacetyl rest should be from 24 hours to a week. Dr White explained that conducting the rest while still in the primary ensures that you have enough viable cells left to reabsorb the diacetyl. The diacetyl rest should be conducted at at 65 degrees F. When the diacetyl rest is finished, the beer should be reacked to secondary and the temperature slowly reduced to lager temp. (5 deg F per day). I'm not sure if adding krausening yeast would reabsorb any diacetyl if the beer was at 32F. You would probably need to bring it up to the diacetyl rest temp range. Mark Alfaro Chula Vista, CA QUAFF California & AHA National Home Brew Club of the Year Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:33:10 +0200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> Subject: saflager Hi all, Have a look at the following website for info about the saflager yeasts. http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/saflager.html Regards Braam Greyling Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: A great disturbance in the force. Like a hundred brewers... ...calling out at once! Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Well, what with all the mergers, collisions and collapses of ISPs of late, this shouldn't surprise me, but the subscription list took a dump of aver 100 subscriber addresses this week. I expected that most of these would have had to do with the Comcast/Mediaone/RoadRunner/home.com/et al fiasco, but surprisingly, a huge share of the dumped addresses were hotmail.msn.com and msn.com addresses! What's up, Mr. Gates? In any case, if you THOUGHT you were supposed to receive a Digest in youe email, but are only reading this on the web, you need to resubsccribe. To those who were spared this great dumpage, a request: If you know your ISP is changing or doing some weirdness, please unsubscribe from the HBD before it happens. It's not a really big thing, but the server is setup to NOT do its usualy job if the volume of that taks reaches certain thresholds. In this case, so many addresses were bouncing that the server refused to maintain the list, thinking something was wrong with our mail transport. THis required tha I go in and review the log files to determine what was occurring in order to manually accomplish what the server can do more swiftly under its automation. It's not a requirement - we usually muddle through - but it's a huge courtesy and convenience to your Janitors when you maintain your email account properly. Thanks! - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:52:15 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Souring Beer Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> mentions souring stout. I like to use a quarter pound of Weyermann's Acidulated malt (saurmalz). It is an easy and very controllable method of souring. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:02:18 -0500 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Kegging at 7000' Floyd writes regarding kegging at high altitudes. Damn Floyd! Where do you live? 7000' is definitely "up there". But I digress...... The pressure issue should be clarified a bit. When brewers talk PSI, what we are saying is that the pressure inside a vessel is X PSI greater than the ambient atmospheric pressure. This is referred to as PSIG where the "G" stands for "gage" (or is it gauge?). When we measure atmospheric pressure, we are talking about "absolute" pressure or the amount of PSI above a perfect vacuum. This is designated as PSIA. At 7000', atmospheric pressure is about 11.3 PSIA and at sea level its about 14.7 PSIA. But because most applications deal with gage pressure, the "G" gets left off and we refer to it as just PSI. So, with that out of the way, 12 PSI at 7000' is the same at 12 PSI at sea level as far as the tubing lengths, pressure drop, etc. The beer will act the same on a given system when tapped at any elevation as long as the gage pressures used are the same and the beer comes to equilibrium at that elevation. However, at sea level, there is an additional 3.4 PSI (14.7 - 11.3) worth of CO2 dissolved in the beer because of the increased atmospheric pressure. But if the beer is consumed at sea level, this amount of CO2 will not come out of solution as foam/bubbles, therefore has no effect on how the kegging system is set up. I have no idea whether or not this added CO2 will affect the taste, but I would say any effect would be minor. The important this as far as kegging goes is that 12 PSI is 12 PSI (gage pressure) regardless of elevation, therefore tubing lengths and pressure drops are the same. The thing to remember is that if you bottle some beer from your keg at 7000' and then send it to a competition in San Francisco, the gage pressure in the bottle will decrease by about 3.4 PSI (14.7 - 11.3), in other words, it might be a little flat when it gets there. The increased atmospheric pressure decreases the gage pressure in the bottle. The converse is true as well, the gage pressure of a beer bottled in San Francisco will increase by 3.4 PSI when taken to 7000'. Hope this helps, Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:25:06 -0600 From: "Kevin Eggemeyer" <KevinE at AccessTraining.com> Subject: Pressure Canning Wort I would like to pressure can some wort for yeast starters. SWMBO has a book on canning, but it does not provide directions for wort. Can you believe it?! How long should the wort be processed? Any other tips? Kevin Eggemeyer Wentzville, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 9:15:2 -0600 From: "Steve Heffner" <potatopotato at earthlink.net> Subject: Basements and drainage Hey now, I am also planning a brewery in the basement. Note that concrete is a porous substance, and when something gets spilled on it, some quantity will be absorbed, even if it is washed down. This will worsen with successive batches, and will create a permanently contaminated brewhouse, not to mention your residence. I read in one of my brewing books that this has occurred in breweries and that the only fix is to remove the concrete. This is why they use tiled or sealed floors in brewpubs. I further would not want to buy a house where the concrete was thusly soiled. I am planning to build a floor above the concrete, with furring strips for breathing, probably 2 x 4s flat under plywood with linoleum on top. I figure I can use a single piece to eliminate seams, and 'wrap' it up the sides a foot or so, providing splash control. I would then have to seal one end with a drain to the nearby floor drain. Newer houses have plastic barrier sheeting under the floor, and I would just use an epoxy floor finish to seal it up. Note epoxy paint is usually only paint. You would want a genuine two-part epoxy sealer, that goes on nice and thick as in commercial applications. I am not sure when they started putting the plastic barrier in; mayebe someone can shed some light on this? Steve Heffner West End Brewery La Grange, IL [210.6, 262.3] Rn, apparently Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:24:08 -0500 From: "Michael R. Roesch" <mroesch at bellsouth.net> Subject: Greetings fellow brew lovers! I had an inspiration (or was it a hallucination from too much Lambic) last night concerning making hop tea for additions to my batches. Why not use a coffee maker! Mr. Coffee, etc. or one of those glass with a basket units you see in the fancy coffee stores like Barney's. With a good paper filter all you would get was a pure hop tea to add to your wort! Hop Pellets would be ideal for this process. Has anyone tried this? The only concern would be that the hops would expand too much in the filter basket, clogging it up in the Mr. Coffee types, the glass Barnies type that you add boiling water to probably would be the way to go as I believe they have a closed basket. Thoughts? Flames? Regards Michael R. Roesch webmaster at valuepricehosting.com www.valuepricehosting.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:29:51 -0600 From: "George Krafcisin" <gkrafcisin at mindspring.com> Subject: SIMPLE MEAD I'm planning on making a gallon of simple dry mead, with 3 pounds of generic honey from MoreBeer, yeast nutrient from the same and a champagne yeast from White Labs.I'd like to make this as simple as possible, and let the yeast do the work. I have two questions: 1) I plan to finesse the sterilization balance between boiling (and losing all the volatile goodies) and chemical sterilization with sodium bisulfite (keeping the goodies but adding an inorganic chemical to the mix). What if I just soak the foil/plastic honey package in 180 F water for a half hour, then add it to cooled preboiled water to make up what should be a sterile must? Would that retain the volatiles that would otherwise be lost? Or would that just introduce plasticizers from the packaging? If that is the case, how about putting the honey in a sealed glass container and gently heating it to 180 in a water bath? 2) I would like to adjust the must pH, if necessary, using lemon juice rather than adding yet another chemical (phosphoric acid, for example). I have no idea of how many milliequivalents of acid there are in ReaLemon bottled juice, or in real lemons, for that matter. I also have no idea of what buffering reactions might occur in the must. Assuming only a minor pH adjustment, should I add lemon juice in drops, teaspoons, tablespoons, or fractions of cups? George Krafcisin Glencoe, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:36:42 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Mash PH/ Water Analysis Greg Collins writes ... > There >has been similar posts to this same problem without much mentioned about >causes or cures. I wish that I had saved the links as I searched the >archives, [...] I wrote a while back that I saw a pattern of newbie all-grainers who are getting harsh (not astringent) flavors from fairly middle of the road recipes. My hunch was that pH was to blame, or some aspect of their water chemistry. After talking to a few it didn't sound like their grist bills were odd. Greg - your water sounds great - but there could be some unspecified ion that is giving you trouble. A few ppm of iron can give you some miserable flavors for example. Some muni water supplies have a lot of phenolic content which only slowly reacts with chlorine to give band-aid flavors. >This >bitterness I'm talking about is not astringent. It's a jaw-locking, harsh >flavor that has nothing to do with the mouth puckering, dry, grape peeling >taste that is characteristic of astringent off flavors. Now how's that for creative taste descriptions? I like it - and it does make me *suspect* iron as a possibility. In high quantity iron taste like a rusty-nail, but in smaller quantities it's different but no more subtle - harsh, and jaw-locking match. Small amounts of iron seems to ruin some of the positive flavor attributes of beer.rather than add a specific flavor of it's own. >This beer is cosmetically fine. It's clear, no ring at the top of the >bottle, doesn't foam when opened. To me the taste is more characteristic of >some kind of chemical rather than bacterial. Maybe I'm leaving some >sanitizer behind somewhere.... ... >- -- Sanitizer (Clorox/ Iodophor) I good possibility. First make sure you are properly diluting these - it only sakes a few ounces of bleach or a couple tablespoons of iodophor to make 5gal of sanitizing solution. John Palmer's on-line book will have specifics. Bleach and iodophor can't be mixed of course. When I had safe chlorinated tap water I'd use bleach solution to clean and sanitize - but then rinse three (yes 3) times with water before using the vessel for wort. My current procedures with my less trusted well water still use three rinses after using diluted bleach solution - but the last is properly diluted iodophor. >There was a request for some additional information on ingredients and >general process, so here that is: Is it all-grain - right ? How much *total* water (mash+sparge) do you use per pound of grist ? How much hops in ounces ? The total water should be under 1gal/lb. You should use a high alpha bittering hops for bittering purposes since too much total hops in a brew can give herbal vegetable flavors. >Also, there was no comment on the mash ph of 4.9 that I mentioned. Is it >fair to assume that this range is ok? 4.9 is low, but it's not low enough to cause problems. You'll still get a good conversion at this pH and tho' you can extract excess phenolics using either too high or too low a pH, I don't think that's the issue here. I would ask how you measure pH. Cheap meters and wide range paper strips aren't really accurate to more than a couple tenths and if your pH is really 4.5 that could be the problem. I'd shoot for a pH closer to 5.3 or 5.4 if I were you using Alan Meekers suggestion. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:01:46 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Guinness "tang" Mark mentioned that "Guinness 'tang'" in today's HBD. Frankly I just don't recognize any sourness in fresh Guinness. I've had Guinness on at least three continents and at St. James Gate in Dublin. There the Guinness was at it's freshest and I detected no sourness or "tang." So what is that some people are detecting and trying to emulate by souring beer? Is it a lower pH from the use of black, roasted barley? Is it an off-taste from trying Guinness that is not fresh? Is this "tang" a typical homebrewing momily or reality? Has anyone tried fresh Guinness on draught and/or cans side-by-side with what you believe to be a Guinness with a "tang" and your own homebrew that targeted the Dry Stout style? I've been judging beer for a long time and this is one area that keeps coming up that I just don't really believe to be a fact, but am willing to learn... David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:21 EST From: Daveandbetta930 at cs.com Subject: DCL yeast Drew Avis was wondering where to get DCL yeast. B3 carries the stuff at morebeer.com. Dave Phelps Baltimore,MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:22:09 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: howling savage banter and Golden Promise Drew Avis writes: > As for the RauchCAP - I plan to send a bottle to Brian > Lundeen to ensure it's not poisonous before I try it myself - > maybe he'll be able to comment on the flavour of this yeast. If I could survive the RodentBock, I can survive anything. Although I was careful to give it a good visual inspection for the usual parameters: coloUr, clarity and small brown nuggets. ;-) I'll try to control the Kleinisms in my review. Ryan Willis asks: > I was wondering if anyone has the information about > Golden Promise Apart from sounding like an act that is likely illegal in most States, the Crisp Malting page at the Cargill site states: Golden Promise is the Scottish equivalent of Maris Otter. Brewers north of the border claim that its flavour is much superior to Maris Otter for that authentic Scottish taste. Also, Paddock Wood quotes 36 ppg and 2.6 SRM. You can also read a review there from the President of the Edmonton Homebrewers Guild. There are two malts I definitely want to try for my pale ale brewing, Golden Promise and Gambrinus ESB. Unfortunately, I still have nearly a full bag of DWC pale to use up. Hmmm, no-sparge mashing is looking like a good option, right about now. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:26:22 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: Maple Sap Beer I have fermented maple syrup as a wine or mead, a "made" if you like. 1 gallon of maple syrup, 1 gallon of water, some yeast nutrient and an appropriate yeast of your choice. This results in a very maple-y, mead-like beverage that ages into a fine sherry-like drink with diminished maple character. Use the lesser grades (B for example) of maple syrup since these actually result in more flavor contribution. My process didn't put all the syrup into the fermenter at once, but rather diluted the first 25% with about 50% of the water and once fermentation was going strong, I added another 25% of the syrup diluted with less of the water and then finished up with the remaining syrup and water. I did heat the syrup/water to about 180oF for 20 min to pasteurize it but didn't boil in order to retain as much flavor and aroma as possible. A local grocery chain sells honey and maple syrup in bulk by the pound so it wasn't as expensive as buying individual bottles off the shelf. I agree with Dan that just adding maple syrup to a beer doesn't add much maple character, it is lost in the end. But maple wines are a joy. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:39:22 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Re: Beer styles Guido Deboeck comments and asks: "The BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program, Guide to Beer styles for Home Brew Beer Competitions) defines some 26 beer style categories (e,g, american lager, european pale lager etc) and within each 3 - 4 beer styles. Does anyone know what this is based on? Some BJCP categories are tightly defined (e.g the stout contains dry-, sweet-, oatmeal- and foreign extra stout) however not all stouts are in this category (e.g. russian imperial stout is under barley wines) or are very broad (e.g. fruit beers, which can be based on almost any type of beer with fruit added to it...) Does anyone know about a more rigorous classification of beer styles?" Well, the BJCP style guide is based on years of knowledge by BJCP judges who are also brewers. The original beer style definitions were generated other authors and later codified by the AHA/BJCP into a style guide used for homebrew competitions. The AOB maintains a somewhat similar and parallel set of style guides used for their professional brewers in competitions, such as the GABF and WBC, intended for the commercial brewers. The classic styles as produced by brewers in their regions speak for themselves. Some are just ad hoc definitions as the beers have developed. Some have been written into laws as appellation to regions (Koelsch for example). Yes, some of the BJCP style definitions are tightly defined. Some are more loosely defined. Some are more generic, some (like California Common) are more specific. The categorization of the styles reflected the opinion of a BJCP committee comprised of knowledgeable judges, experienced in homebrew competitions. Individual competitions are free to shuffle the category deck to suit the competition, combining categories based on the number of entries received in each. Individual competitions may create and add their own local styles (Spooky Beer for example). Or they may limit a competition to one or more specific styles (individual club only competitions for example). I suggest that Guido spend some time talking with some experienced BJCP judges and competition organizers to learn more about this subject or check out the BJCP web site at www.bjcp.org. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: diacetyl Wally is trying to get a lager-like lager. Good idea, methinks! :-) Your idea of pitching actively fermenting yeast is good. You could also just do a diacetyl rest by allowing the fermenter to warm up to room temperature, hold for two days, then chill again. In theory you're supposed to increase and decrease the temperatures gradually. All I can say is that I've taken a carboy out of the chest freezer, left it at room temps for 2-4 days, then dropped it back in the freezer and came out with clean & tasty lagers. Or perhaps a combination of the two... - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:09 EST From: Himsbrew at aol.com Subject: maple sap darrell asked about using sap, here is my story. My brew buddies and I brewed a lightly hopped amber ale last year, we used 26gal. of sap reduced to 12 gal. of sap.(for a 10 gal brew) The brew was beautiful!! best brew in 9 yrs.of brewing. the beer was an extract/partial mash with a og. of 1.070 (with regular water it would have been near 1.055) the beer had a slight maple taste with a more dominant "earthy" tone.. we are sapping now in green bay and we will definately re-brew this! In fact there are a few bottles left that will meet there maker this weekend during a sap boil!! try it Darrell!! jim cuny green bay wi Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:54:10 From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com> Subject: SS washing machine hose wrap beats EZ masher Greetings, Previously, I had asked for info on using the stainless steel mesh from around a washing machine hose to act as a 'filter' on the outflow of the boiling kettle. I was currenlt using the EZ masher and now have switched to this SS mesh. While I accussed Jeff R. of using it, it actually was CD Pritchard. CD uses about a 5 foot long piece. Mine is a lot shorter, but works just as well. (said the Bishop to the actress). I used a 2 foot long section. It worked far, far better than my EZ masher. I'm concluding that size does matter. The SS mesh was taken from 3/8 inch tubing I bought off a bulk roll at Sears Hardware (no affil. I just seem to go there a lot) and was slid over a 3/8" flexible copper line that was only open on the very end. The cost for the SS mesh was minimal. Just my $0.02 on the subject. Cheers, Bret Morrow, Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:19:36 -0500 From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com> Subject: 10th Annual Spirit of Free Beer The tenth annual Spirit of Free Beer (SoFB) homebrew competition will be held at Old Dominion Brewery which is just outside Washington DC on May 18 and 19, 2002. Entries will be accepted from April 27 thru May 11th and will include all BJCP categories. Once again, SoFB is an official qualifying MCAB event. A minimum of two BJCP judges will evaluate each entry. Traditionally the total retail value of the three prizes for each of the 16 to 20 competition categories has been at least $75.00, so there is a potential for a lot of loot. Anticipated grand prizes this year include brewing winning entries at local brewpubs, brewer-of-the-day at breweries, and more loot. Just to tempt any potential judges or Stewards, a catered lunch with barbeque cooked on site will be provided. This is an event not to be missed. For more information visit the BURP website at http://www.burp.org. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD [420.7, 122.4] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:34:34 -0600 From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Sparkaloid I have a mead which finished fermentation fairly well. I placed it in my fridge to try to drop the yeast, since I liked the sweetness balance present and I could taste some yeast in my sample. After a week it was still fairly cloudy so I did some research and found that sparkaloid is a great clarifier for wine and meads. So I added some right in the carboy and left the whole thing in the cooler. Two weeks later I figured it was time to put it in the keg. I took the carboy out and examined it. Yikes! About two inches is crystal clear and the rest looks like a cumulous nimbus cloud with some assorted gobs of goo floating around hither and yon. Is sparkaloid supposed to do its work at room temp. Did I shoot myself in the foot by leaving it in the fridge. My instincts tell me to leave it at room temp for a week and re-evaluate. Can anyone provide some guidance on my dilema? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:15:52 -0500 From: Paul Kensler <pkensler at comcast.net> Subject: Happy Valley Mill owner For the past few years, I've been using and tinkering with an old mill I bought used off a guy. It was sort of like owning an old car in that I spent more time working on it than I did using it. Unfortunately it was more like owning somebody's parents' 70's-era wood-paneled station wagon instead of something cool. I guess somebody with some basic carpentry skills and tools could have fixed it up pretty easily, but I have very few of either. So with my illicit earnings from a office football pool (by the way, I was laid off from that job a couple weeks later - not for gambling - so I took my winnings and didn't have to keep paying into the pool!), I decided to buy a brank spanking new mill. I bought a Valley Mill and I love it. It works great, and I no longer have all the same old headaches on brew day, caused by thinking "dammit, I SHOULD'VE spent more time working on the mill...". I ordered it through a (for the DC area) local shop - 4 Corners Homebrewing (www.homebrewsupply.com). Although the mill came with a missing part, they took care of me promptly and professionally, and I am a very satisfied customer of both the mill and 4 Corners Homebrew. JASC, NAYYY, YMMV. Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
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