---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Diacetyl problem in a Dopplebock (mark alfaro)
  saflager ("Braam Greyling")
  A great disturbance in the force. Like a hundred brewers... (Pat Babcock)
  Souring Beer ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Kegging at 7000' ("Dennis Collins")
  Pressure Canning Wort ("Kevin Eggemeyer")
  Basements and drainage ("Steve Heffner")
   ("Michael R. Roesch")
  SIMPLE MEAD ("George Krafcisin")
  Re: Mash PH/ Water Analysis ("Steve Alexander")
  Guinness "tang" ("Houseman, David L")
  DCL yeast (Daveandbetta930)
  RE: howling savage banter and Golden Promise (Brian Lundeen)
  RE:  Maple Sap Beer ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Beer styles ("Houseman, David L")
  diacetyl (Marc Sedam)
  maple sap (Himsbrew)
  SS washing machine hose wrap beats EZ masher ("Bret Morrow")
  10th Annual Spirit of Free Beer ("phil sides jr")
  Sparkaloid ("Mike Brennan")
  Happy Valley Mill owner (Paul Kensler)


*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:13:35 -0800
From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com>
Subject: RE: Diacetyl problem in a Dopplebock

Hi Wally,
At my homebrew club meeting this past Tuesday, Dr. Chris White of White
Labs discussed this very topic. Dr White suggests that you perform a
diacetyl rest just after the exponential growth phase of the yeast when
you still have some airlock activity, and while the beer is still on the
yeast in the primary. Depending on the diacetyl production
characteristics of the yeast strain you are using, the duration of the
diacetyl rest should be from 24 hours to a week. Dr White explained that
conducting the rest while still in the primary ensures that you have
enough viable cells left to reabsorb the diacetyl. The diacetyl rest
should be conducted at  at  65 degrees F. When the diacetyl rest is
finished, the beer should be reacked to secondary and the temperature
slowly reduced to lager temp. (5 deg F per day).  I'm not sure if adding
krausening yeast would reabsorb any diacetyl if the beer was at 32F. You
would probably need to bring it up to the diacetyl rest temp range.

Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA

QUAFF
California & AHA National
Home Brew Club of the Year


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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:33:10 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: saflager

Hi all,

Have a look at the following website for info about the saflager 
yeasts. 
   
http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/saflager.html     
    
Regards

Braam Greyling 



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:56:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: A great disturbance in the force. Like a hundred brewers...

...calling out at once!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, what with all the mergers, collisions and collapses of
ISPs of late, this shouldn't surprise me, but the subscription
list took a dump of aver 100 subscriber addresses this week. I
expected that most of these would have had to do with the
Comcast/Mediaone/RoadRunner/home.com/et al fiasco, but
surprisingly, a huge share of the dumped addresses were
hotmail.msn.com and msn.com addresses! What's up, Mr. Gates?

In any case, if you THOUGHT you were supposed to receive a
Digest in youe email, but are only reading this on the web, you
need to resubsccribe. 

To those who were spared this great dumpage, a request: If you
know your ISP is changing or doing some weirdness, please
unsubscribe from the HBD before it happens. It's not a really
big thing, but the server is setup to NOT do its usualy job if
the volume of that taks reaches certain thresholds. In this
case, so many addresses were bouncing that the server refused to
maintain the list, thinking something was wrong with our mail
transport. THis required tha I go in and review the log files to
determine what was occurring in order to manually accomplish
what the server can do more swiftly under its automation. It's
not a requirement - we usually muddle through - but it's a huge
courtesy and convenience to your Janitors when you maintain your
email account properly.

Thanks!


- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:52:15 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Souring Beer

Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>  mentions souring stout.  I like to use a
quarter pound of Weyermann's Acidulated malt (saurmalz).  It is an easy and
very controllable method of souring.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!




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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:02:18 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re: Kegging at 7000'

Floyd writes regarding kegging at high altitudes.

Damn Floyd!  Where do you live?  7000' is definitely "up there".  But I
digress......

The pressure issue should be clarified a bit.  When brewers talk PSI, what
we are saying is that the pressure inside a vessel is X PSI greater than the
ambient atmospheric pressure.  This is referred to as PSIG where the "G"
stands for "gage" (or is it gauge?).  When we measure atmospheric pressure,
we are talking about "absolute" pressure or the amount of PSI above a
perfect vacuum.  This is designated as PSIA.  At 7000', atmospheric pressure
is about 11.3 PSIA and at sea level its about 14.7 PSIA.  But because most
applications deal with gage pressure, the "G" gets left off and we refer to
it as just PSI.

So, with that out of the way, 12 PSI at 7000' is the same at 12 PSI at sea
level as far as the tubing lengths, pressure drop, etc.  The beer will act
the same on a given system when tapped at any elevation as long as the gage
pressures used are the same and the beer comes to equilibrium at that
elevation.

However, at sea level, there is an additional 3.4 PSI (14.7 - 11.3) worth of
CO2 dissolved in the beer because of the increased atmospheric pressure.
But if the beer is consumed at sea level, this amount of CO2 will not come
out of solution as foam/bubbles, therefore has no effect on how the kegging
system is set up.  I have no idea whether or not this added CO2 will affect
the taste, but I would say any effect would be minor.  The important this as
far as kegging goes is that 12 PSI is 12 PSI (gage pressure) regardless of
elevation, therefore tubing lengths and pressure drops are the same.

The thing to remember is that if you bottle some beer from your keg at 7000'
and then send it to a competition in San Francisco, the gage pressure in the
bottle will decrease by about 3.4 PSI (14.7 - 11.3), in other words, it
might be a little flat when it gets there.  The increased atmospheric
pressure decreases the gage pressure in the bottle.  The converse is true as
well, the gage pressure of a beer bottled in San Francisco will increase by
3.4 PSI when taken to 7000'.

Hope this helps,

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN




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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:25:06 -0600
From: "Kevin Eggemeyer" <KevinE at AccessTraining.com>
Subject: Pressure Canning Wort

I would like to pressure can some wort for yeast starters.  SWMBO has a book
on canning, but
it does not provide directions for wort.  Can you believe it?!

How long should the wort be processed?  Any other tips?

Kevin Eggemeyer
Wentzville, MO



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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 9:15:2 -0600
From: "Steve Heffner" <potatopotato at earthlink.net>
Subject: Basements and drainage

Hey now,
 
I am also planning a brewery in the basement.  
Note that concrete is a porous substance, and 
when something gets spilled on it, some quantity 
will be absorbed, even if it is washed down.  
This will worsen with successive batches, and 
will create a permanently contaminated brewhouse, 
not to mention your residence.  I read in one of 
my brewing books that this has occurred in 
breweries and that the only fix is to remove the 
concrete.  This is why they use tiled or sealed 
floors in brewpubs.  I further would not want to 
buy a house where the concrete was thusly soiled.
 
I am planning to build a floor above the 
concrete, with furring strips for breathing, 
probably 2 x 4s flat under plywood with linoleum 
on top.  I figure I can use a single piece to 
eliminate seams, and 'wrap' it up the sides a 
foot or so, providing splash control.  I would 
then have to seal one end with a drain to the 
nearby floor drain.  
 
Newer houses have plastic barrier sheeting under 
the floor, and I would just use an epoxy floor 
finish to seal it up.  Note epoxy paint is 
usually only paint.  You would want a genuine 
two-part epoxy sealer, that goes on nice and 
thick as in commercial applications.  I am not 
sure when they started putting the plastic 
barrier in; mayebe someone can shed some light 
on this?
 
Steve Heffner
West End Brewery
La Grange, IL
[210.6, 262.3] Rn, apparently



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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:24:08 -0500
From: "Michael R. Roesch" <mroesch at bellsouth.net>
Subject: 

Greetings fellow brew lovers!

I had an inspiration (or was it a hallucination from too much Lambic) last 
night concerning making hop tea for additions to my batches. Why not use a 
coffee maker!  Mr. Coffee, etc. or one of those glass with a basket units 
you see in the fancy coffee stores like Barney's.  With a good paper filter 
all you would get was a pure hop tea to add to your wort!  Hop Pellets 
would be ideal for this process.  Has anyone tried this?  The only concern 
would be that the hops would expand too much in the filter basket, clogging 
it up in the Mr. Coffee types, the glass Barnies type that you add boiling 
water to probably would be the way to go as I believe they have a closed 
basket.

Thoughts? Flames?

Regards

Michael R. Roesch
webmaster at valuepricehosting.com
www.valuepricehosting.com



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:29:51 -0600
From: "George Krafcisin" <gkrafcisin at mindspring.com>
Subject: SIMPLE MEAD

I'm planning on making a gallon of simple dry mead, with 3 pounds of generic
honey from MoreBeer, yeast nutrient from the same and a champagne yeast from
White Labs.I'd like to make this as simple as possible, and let the yeast do
the work.  I have two questions:

1)      I plan to finesse the sterilization balance between boiling (and
losing all the volatile goodies) and chemical sterilization with sodium
bisulfite (keeping the goodies but adding an inorganic chemical to the mix).
What if I just soak the foil/plastic honey package in 180 F water for a half
hour, then add it to cooled preboiled water to make up what should be a
sterile must?  Would that retain the volatiles that would otherwise be lost?
Or would that just introduce plasticizers from the packaging?  If that is
the case, how about putting the honey in a sealed glass container and gently
heating it to 180 in a water bath?

2)      I would like to adjust the must pH, if necessary, using lemon juice
rather than adding yet another chemical (phosphoric acid, for example).  I
have no idea of how many milliequivalents of acid there are in ReaLemon
bottled juice, or in real lemons, for that matter. I also have no idea of
what buffering reactions might occur in the must.  Assuming only a minor pH
adjustment, should I add lemon juice in drops, teaspoons, tablespoons, or
fractions of cups?

George Krafcisin
Glencoe, IL



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:36:42 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Mash PH/ Water Analysis

Greg Collins writes ...

> There
>has been similar posts to this same problem without much mentioned about
>causes or cures. I wish that I had saved the links as I searched the
>archives, [...]

I wrote a while back that I saw a pattern of newbie all-grainers who are
getting harsh (not astringent) flavors from fairly middle of the road
recipes.   My hunch was that pH was to blame, or some aspect of their water
chemistry.   After talking to a few it didn't sound like their grist bills
were odd.

Greg - your water sounds great - but there could be some unspecified ion
that is giving you trouble.   A few ppm of iron can give you some miserable
flavors for example.  Some muni water supplies have a lot of phenolic
content which only slowly reacts with chlorine to give band-aid flavors.

>This
>bitterness I'm talking about is not astringent. It's a jaw-locking, harsh
>flavor that has nothing to do with the mouth puckering, dry, grape peeling
>taste that is characteristic of astringent off flavors. Now how's that for
creative taste descriptions?

I like it - and it does make me *suspect* iron as a possibility.  In high
quantity iron taste like a rusty-nail, but in smaller quantities it's
different but no more subtle - harsh, and jaw-locking match.  Small amounts
of iron seems to ruin some of the positive flavor attributes of beer.rather
than add a specific flavor of it's own.

>This beer is cosmetically fine. It's clear, no ring at the top of the
>bottle, doesn't foam when opened.  To me the taste is more characteristic
of
>some kind of chemical rather than bacterial. Maybe I'm leaving some
>sanitizer behind somewhere....
 ...
>- -- Sanitizer (Clorox/ Iodophor)

I good possibility.  First make sure you are properly diluting these - it
only sakes a few ounces of bleach or a couple tablespoons of iodophor to
make 5gal of sanitizing solution.  John Palmer's on-line book will have
specifics.   Bleach and iodophor can't be mixed of course.  When I had safe
chlorinated tap water I'd use bleach solution to clean and sanitize - but
then rinse three (yes 3) times with water before using the vessel for wort.
My current procedures with my less trusted well water still use three rinses
after using diluted bleach solution - but the last is properly diluted
iodophor.

>There was a request for some additional information on ingredients and
>general process, so here that is:

Is it all-grain - right ?  How much *total* water (mash+sparge)  do you use
per pound of grist ?  How much hops in ounces ?  The total water should be
under 1gal/lb.  You should use a high alpha bittering hops for bittering
purposes since too much total hops in a brew can give herbal vegetable
flavors.

>Also, there was no comment on the mash ph of 4.9 that I mentioned. Is it
>fair to assume that this range is ok?

4.9 is low, but it's not low enough to cause problems.  You'll still get a
good conversion at this pH and tho' you can extract excess phenolics using
either too high or too low a pH, I don't think that's the issue here.   I
would ask how you measure pH.    Cheap meters and wide range paper strips
aren't really accurate to more than a couple tenths and if your pH is really
4.5 that could be the problem.  I'd shoot for a pH closer to 5.3 or 5.4 if I
were you using Alan Meekers suggestion.

 -S




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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:01:46 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Guinness "tang"

Mark mentioned that "Guinness 'tang'" in today's HBD.  Frankly I just don't
recognize any sourness in fresh Guinness.  I've had Guinness on at least
three continents and at St. James Gate in Dublin.  There the Guinness was at
it's freshest and I detected no sourness or "tang."   So what is that some
people are detecting and trying to emulate by souring beer?  Is it a lower
pH from the use of black, roasted barley?  Is it an off-taste from trying
Guinness that is not fresh?   Is this "tang" a typical homebrewing momily or
reality?  Has anyone tried fresh Guinness on draught and/or cans
side-by-side with what you believe to be a Guinness with a "tang" and your
own homebrew that targeted the Dry Stout style?  I've been judging beer for
a long time and this is one area that keeps coming up that I just don't
really believe to be a fact, but am willing to learn...

David Houseman


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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:21 EST
From: Daveandbetta930 at cs.com
Subject: DCL yeast

Drew Avis was wondering where to get DCL yeast. B3 carries the stuff at 
morebeer.com.

Dave Phelps

Baltimore,MD


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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:22:09 -0600 
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: howling savage banter and Golden Promise

Drew Avis writes:

> As for the RauchCAP - I plan to send a bottle to Brian 
> Lundeen to ensure it's not poisonous before I try it myself - 
> maybe he'll be able to comment on the flavour of this yeast.  

If I could survive the RodentBock, I can survive anything. Although I was
careful to give it a good visual inspection for the usual parameters:
coloUr, clarity and small brown nuggets. ;-)

I'll try to control the Kleinisms in my review.

Ryan Willis asks:

> I was wondering if anyone has the information about 
> Golden Promise 

Apart from sounding like an act that is likely illegal in most States, the
Crisp Malting page at the Cargill site states:

Golden Promise is the Scottish equivalent of Maris Otter. Brewers north of
the border claim that its flavour is much superior to Maris Otter for that
authentic Scottish taste.

Also, Paddock Wood quotes 36 ppg and 2.6 SRM. You can also read a review
there from the President of the Edmonton Homebrewers Guild. 

There are two malts I definitely want to try for my pale ale brewing, Golden
Promise and Gambrinus ESB. Unfortunately, I still have nearly a full bag of
DWC pale to use up. Hmmm, no-sparge mashing is looking like a good option,
right about now.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:26:22 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE:  Maple Sap Beer

I have fermented maple syrup as a wine or mead, a "made" if you like.   1
gallon of maple syrup, 1 gallon of water, some yeast nutrient and an
appropriate yeast of your choice.  This results in a very maple-y, mead-like
beverage that ages into a fine sherry-like drink with diminished maple
character.   Use the lesser grades (B for example) of maple syrup since
these actually result in more flavor contribution.  My process didn't put
all the syrup into the fermenter at once, but rather diluted the first 25%
with about 50% of the water and once fermentation was going strong, I added
another 25% of the syrup diluted with less of the water and then finished up
with the remaining syrup and water.  I did heat the syrup/water to about
180oF for 20 min to pasteurize it but didn't boil in order to retain as much
flavor and aroma as possible.  A local grocery chain sells honey and maple
syrup in bulk by the pound so it wasn't as expensive as buying individual
bottles off the shelf.  I agree with Dan that just adding maple syrup to a
beer doesn't add much maple character, it is lost in the end.  But maple
wines are a joy.

David Houseman


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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:39:22 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: Beer styles

Guido Deboeck comments and asks:
"The BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program, Guide to Beer styles for
Home Brew Beer Competitions) defines some 26 beer style categories
(e,g, american lager, european pale lager etc) and within each 3 - 4
beer styles.

Does anyone know what this is based on?  Some BJCP categories are
tightly defined (e.g the stout  contains dry-, sweet-, oatmeal- and
foreign extra stout) however not all stouts are in this category
(e.g. russian imperial stout is under barley wines) or are very broad
(e.g. fruit beers, which can be based on almost any type of beer with
fruit added to it...)

Does anyone know about a more rigorous classification of beer styles?"

Well, the BJCP style guide is based on years of knowledge by BJCP judges who
are also brewers.  The original beer style definitions were generated other
authors and later codified by the AHA/BJCP into a style guide used for
homebrew competitions.  The AOB maintains a somewhat similar and parallel
set of style guides used for their professional brewers in competitions,
such as the GABF and WBC, intended for the commercial brewers.  The classic
styles as produced by brewers in their regions speak for themselves.  Some
are just ad hoc definitions as the beers have developed.  Some have been
written into laws as appellation to regions (Koelsch for example).  Yes,
some of the BJCP style definitions are tightly defined.  Some are more
loosely defined.  Some are more generic, some (like California Common) are
more specific.  The categorization of the styles reflected the opinion of a
BJCP committee comprised of knowledgeable judges, experienced in homebrew
competitions.  Individual competitions are free to shuffle the category deck
to suit the competition, combining categories based on the number of entries
received in each.  Individual competitions may create and add their own
local styles (Spooky Beer for example).  Or they may limit a competition to
one or more specific styles (individual club only competitions for example).


I suggest that Guido spend some time talking with some experienced BJCP
judges and competition organizers to learn more about this subject or check
out the BJCP web site at www.bjcp.org.

David Houseman




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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: diacetyl

Wally is trying to get a lager-like lager.  Good idea,
methinks!  :-)

Your idea of pitching actively fermenting yeast is good.
You could also just do a diacetyl rest by allowing the
fermenter to warm up to room temperature, hold for two days,
then chill again. In theory you're supposed to increase and
decrease the temperatures gradually.  All I can say is that
I've taken a carboy out of the chest freezer, left it at
room temps for 2-4 days, then dropped it back in the freezer
and came out with clean & tasty lagers.

Or perhaps a combination of the two...

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:09 EST
From: Himsbrew at aol.com
Subject: maple sap

darrell asked about using sap, here is my story.
My brew buddies and I brewed a lightly 
hopped amber ale last year, we used 26gal. of
sap reduced to 12 gal. of sap.(for a 10 gal brew)
The brew was beautiful!! best brew in 9 yrs.of 
brewing. the beer was an extract/partial mash 
with a og. of 1.070 (with regular water it would
have been near 1.055)
the beer had a slight maple taste with a more 
dominant "earthy" tone..
we are sapping now in green bay and we will 
definately re-brew this!
In fact there are a few bottles left that will 
meet there maker this weekend during a sap boil!!
try it Darrell!!
jim cuny
green bay wi


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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:54:10 
From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com>
Subject: SS washing machine hose wrap beats EZ masher

Greetings,

Previously, I had asked for info on using the stainless steel mesh from 
around a washing machine hose to act as a 'filter' on the outflow of the 
boiling kettle.  I was currenlt using the EZ masher and now have switched to 
this SS mesh.  While I accussed Jeff R. of using it, it actually was CD 
Pritchard.  CD uses about a 5 foot long piece.  Mine is a lot shorter, but 
works just as well. (said the Bishop to the actress).  I used a 2 foot long 
section.  It worked far, far better than my EZ masher.  I'm concluding that 
size does matter.

The SS mesh was taken from 3/8 inch tubing I bought off a bulk roll at Sears 
Hardware (no affil. I just seem to go there a lot) and was slid over a 3/8" 
flexible copper line that was only open on the very end.  The cost for the 
SS mesh was minimal.  Just my $0.02 on the subject.

Cheers,
Bret Morrow,
Hamden, CT





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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:19:36 -0500
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com>
Subject: 10th Annual Spirit of Free Beer

The tenth annual Spirit of Free Beer (SoFB) homebrew competition will be
held at Old Dominion Brewery which is just outside Washington DC on May 18
and 19, 2002. Entries will be accepted from April 27 thru May 11th and will
include all BJCP categories. Once again, SoFB is an official qualifying MCAB
event. A minimum of two BJCP judges will evaluate each entry. Traditionally
the total retail value of the three prizes for each of the 16 to 20
competition categories has been at least $75.00, so there is a potential for
a lot of loot.  Anticipated grand prizes this year include brewing winning
entries at local brewpubs, brewer-of-the-day at breweries, and more loot.
Just to tempt any potential judges or Stewards, a catered lunch with
barbeque cooked on site will be provided. This is an event not to be missed.
For more information visit the BURP website at http://www.burp.org.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Silver Spring, MD
[420.7, 122.4] Rennerian



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:34:34 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Sparkaloid

I have a mead which finished fermentation fairly well.  I placed it in my
fridge to try to drop the yeast, since I liked the sweetness balance present
and I could taste some yeast in my sample.  After a week it was still fairly
cloudy so I did some research and found that sparkaloid is a great clarifier
for wine and meads.  So I added some right in the carboy and left the whole
thing in the cooler.   Two weeks later I figured it was time to put it in
the keg.  I took the carboy out and examined it.  Yikes!  About two inches
is crystal clear and the rest looks like a cumulous nimbus cloud with some
assorted gobs of goo floating around hither and yon.  Is sparkaloid supposed
to do its work at room temp.  Did I shoot myself in the foot by leaving it
in the fridge.  My instincts tell me to leave it at room temp for a week and
re-evaluate.  Can anyone provide some guidance on my dilema?



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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:15:52 -0500
From: Paul Kensler <pkensler at comcast.net>
Subject: Happy Valley Mill owner

For the past few years, I've been using and tinkering with an old mill I
bought used off a guy.  It was sort of like owning an old car in that I
spent more time working on it than I did using it.  Unfortunately it was
more like owning somebody's parents' 70's-era wood-paneled station wagon
instead of something cool.  I guess somebody with some basic carpentry
skills and tools could have fixed it up pretty easily, but I have very few
of either.

So with my illicit earnings from a office football pool (by the way, I was
laid off from that job a couple weeks later - not for gambling - so I took
my winnings and didn't have to keep paying into the pool!), I decided to buy
a brank spanking new mill.  I bought a Valley Mill and I love it.  It works
great, and I no longer have all the same old headaches on brew day, caused
by thinking "dammit, I SHOULD'VE spent more time working on the mill...".

I ordered it through a (for the DC area) local shop - 4 Corners Homebrewing
(www.homebrewsupply.com).  Although the mill came with a missing part, they
took care of me promptly and professionally, and I am a very satisfied
customer of both the mill and 4 Corners Homebrew.

JASC, NAYYY, YMMV.


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD




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