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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Stuck final gravity (Walter J Doherty)
  hop plant in hot cliamte ("santhosh  kumar")
  New York ("Kevin Boyer")
  Fermentap Products ("Colby Fry")
  Re: Fruity Beer ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re: grain storage/vittles vault/gamma container (Rob Dewhirst)
  Juice in brew (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
  RE: malt sack volume? (Bill Tobler)
  Using pH test paper:  How???  plus water chemistry.... (LJ Vitt)
  roasted barley (Paddock Wood Customer Service)
  10 gal. cornies ("Steve Heffner")
  Breiss Roasted Barley ("Rich Beecher")
  Re: Grain Storage (Todd Goodman)
  Rennerian Calculator moved (Brian Levetzow)
  wy3068 ("Steve Alexander")
  Beer to style ("David Craft")
  Using pH test paper:  How??? (Al Klein)


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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:16:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Stuck final gravity

Hello All,

I've got a pretty basic amber ale here that has never achieved am
acceptable FG.  The OG was 1.053 and the fermentation seemed to take off
OK, although not as vigorous as usual, but a few weeks later, and the FG
is stuck at 1.035 or so.

Now let me run by you with my theory, and let me know what you think.
During the primary, the house temperature was about 65F, kinda cold for
my California Ale yeast.  I racked this stuff, after a few days to
secondary, purging the secondary carboy with CO2 before racking.  Then
without checking the FG two weeks later, I kegged it, also purging the keg
with CO2.  It's now been sitting here and the house has been warmer
(70-72F) for a couple more weeks.  I just checked the FG - still at 1.035.
I think it may have been too cold for the yeast at the get-go, and now
maybe there's not enough oxygen for them, or simply not enough yeast left
in the beer.

I'm thinking about re-aerating and pitching a good starter to see what
happens.

My second thought is that, since this was an all-grain brew, maybe the
mash temp was too high, leaving me with a bunch of unfermentable dextrins.
It was a pretty new setup and I'm now unsure about the temperature
calibration.  But the wort tastes sweet - are dextrins sweet?

Anyway, let me know what you guys think about this.

Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ




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Date: 15 Mar 2002 11:05:45 -0000
From: "santhosh kumar" <ptsanthosh at rediffmail.com>
Subject: hop plant in hot cliamte

Hi All,
I wish to planting some hop rhizomes in my back yard.
But we'v no winter,no snow here in South India.
Any one can tell what'l happen for my hop plant
without cold climate?

Santhosh
ptsanthosh at yahoo.com


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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:59:06 -0600
From: "Kevin Boyer" <kboyer at houston.rr.com>
Subject: New York

>on april 4th I will be in new york city for the
>first time, to participate in the tunes of glory=20
>bagpipe parade(10,000 pipers!).
 >I will be staying at the milford plaza on 45th&8th
>(near time square I am told).
>any sugestions for a good brew pub or Irish pub=20
>within walking distance?
>thanks for the pointers..
>jim cuny-Green bay wi

Try Connolly's, at 121 West 45th Street between Broadway and 6th Avenue. 
 Great little place.  Not a huge beer selection, but they've got 
Caffrey's & Guinness on tap for sure.  Wonderful bar food and 
atmosphere.  As an added bonus, one of New York's most famous and best 
bar bands plays there.  They're doing a special show for all the pipers 
in town on 04.06.02.  They're called Black 47; you can check them out at 
www.black47.com.

Rocky Sullivans down on Lex is a neat place as well, but a wee bit out 
of walking distance.  www.rockysullivans.com


Kevin Boyer
Houston, TX



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:50:47 -0500
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Fermentap Products

A couple of days ago I asked a question about the use of a bazooka tube for a
masher in a sanke keg. BUT I was looking through Fermentap's products and
found a useful/inexpensive item #WEL300 or WEL130 (B3 stock #). Apparently it
is a SS false bottom/ ballvalve combo that only requires one hole (11/16") and
is about the same price as a ballvalve/bazooka tube combo from Zymico. This
looks like a better product than the bazooka tube because the false bottom is
closer to the bottom and therefore a higher eff. (or so they claim) Does
anyone have any experience with this/ recommendations? I am not trying to
knock Zymico, I think what they do for the homebrewing community is great. I
am trying to be a smart consumer and like most homebrewers trying to get the
best bang for a buck! Any replies private or otherwise are greatly
appreciated.
Colby Fry
Orrstown, Pa



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:09:59 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fruity Beer

In HBD #3890, Caryl Hornberger wrote:
>Anyone ever try adding cherry flavored "Juicy Juice" concentrate
>(100% Juice of Apple, Grape, Cherry ) to their beer to give it a
>cherry flavor?  I did and now my beer smells like bad rot.

   Never used that kind of stuff in beer, but used a similar
thing (peach/apple/white-grape), along with real cherries, in
a mead I recently bottled.  It worked fine-- I taste a decent
amount of peach along with the cherry, though one taster dubbed
it "juicy fruit" mead.  Nothing approaching "bad rot" in it.
Joel Plutchak, [275.4,238.2] A.R.
Just another fruity East-Central Illinois brewer



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:59:31 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: grain storage/vittles vault/gamma container

At 12:35 AM 3/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>At your local pet food store, you can get various sizes of a thing called a
>Vittles Vault, which comes in a variety of sizes corresponding to big bags
>of pet food.  It's made of heavy plastic & has a wide screw-on lid that
>seats tightly.

If this is the "vittles vault" by gamma plastics, it looks like it's the 
exact same thing as the "gamma seal containers" sold by US plastics 
suggested in HBD #3889.



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0500
From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
Subject: Juice in brew

Caryl Hornberger wrote:
"Anyone ever try adding cherry flavored "Juicy Juice" concentrate 
( 100% Juice of Apple, Grape, Cherry ) to their beer to give it a 
cherry flavor? I did and now my beer smells like bad rot."

I haven't used Juicy Juice, but in a 5-gal batch of wheat extract 
brew I used a gallon of Ocean Spray cranberry juice cocktail, half 
in primary, half in secondary. No special treatment of the juice - 
just opened and dumped. No off odors during fermentation, and it 
looks and tastes fine. 

The juice (sweetened with corn sugar) makes 
it too sour and <wine-y?> for my taste - next time I'd use half as 
much juice for a more subtle tartness and flavor. Maybe use it only 
for priming.

Jim Steinbrunner
Midland, MI


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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:09:19 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: malt sack volume?

Dave Housman said,
    " I spent $5.80 for 13 (maybe 15) gallon rubbermaid
containers and lids at K-Mart....snip"  I looked at all the containers at
Walmart and K-mart, and in my opinion, they just don't cut it.  They are not
made well and the lids don't fit very good.  I live in South Texas, with
lots of humidity and bugs.  I didn't want to have to make the choice of
wether or not to brew when you open up the grain container and 2 or 3 moths
fly out.  The gamma seal containers I bought are well made, are air and
water tight, and are just the right size to fit on the shelf under my work
bench. You get what you pay for.  I guess I just didn't want a 6 dollar
container.  Oh yea, these only come in granite. :>)

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:57:55 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Using pH test paper:  How???  plus water chemistry....

In HBD#3890, Daniel tells about his problem with PH papers.


>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:04:02 -0400
>From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
>Subject: Using pH test paper:  How???  plus water chemistry....

>So I finally got some pH test paper, and figured that it might improve
>my brewing.  It seems like I can't figure out how to get a decent
>reading with the stuff (!).  Either that or my water chemsistry is
>pathological...

>I have Precision Labs Inc (of West Chester, OH 45069) test strips, part
>no. 4662, for testing pH range 4.6-6.2.  On the label inside the bottle
>it says "for best results follow closely directions on carton".  
>Problem

>The colour changes from 4.6 to 6.2 are subtle, to say the least. 
>Approximately a light tan at 4.6 to a medium brown at 6.2.  To a guy 
>who
>feels that about sixteen colours is all one really need to get through
>life with, and thinks that "taupe" is more likely to be a bird or a
>plane than a colour, well you can probably see my problem....

Daniel, i have used the same Precision Labs PH strips.  I go by with them.
However, I now use a different brand to make it easier.  
ColorpHast pH 4.0 -7.0  The colors are easier to read.  They are more
costly, but worth it.  You get 100 strips for a $18.00 compared
to $2.79 on the label the Precision labs strips vial I have.

Actually, I still use the Precision labs strips  to see if I am close
to the desired PH.  Then I use the colorPhast.

I got mine at Northern Brewer.  You can probably find a store that
carries them in your area.

Some people go with digital PH meters.  

Leo Vitt
Rochester, MN



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:47:24 -0600
From: Paddock Wood Customer Service <experts at paddockwood.com>
Subject: roasted barley

Folks have asked about Breiss roasted barley and unpleasant flavours.
Breiss uses 6-row malt for this and other specialty malts.

http://www.breiss.com/Products/rb.htm

Perhaps the increase of husk is the real issue. Because of harsh astringent
flavours 6-row Vienna, Munich etc should also not be used. European 2 row
malts, which can be used for 100% of the grist The flavour from dark roasted
husks in a 6-row roasted barley would be more astringent than that from a
2-row.

Readily available Roasted Barley for Stouts:
The British 2-row roasted barley should all be good. Beeston's Roasted
Barley is certainly very popular with UK stout makers, and our select choice
for roasted barley.

cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
experts at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 9:52:11 -0600
From: "Steve Heffner" <potatopotato at earthlink.net>
Subject: 10 gal. cornies

Hey now,

Does anyone have accurate dimensions for a ten gallon corny?

 -inside diameter, top and bottom
 -inside height
 -corner radii / end shape

Also, where these may be available?
Thinking about this vessel's possibilities...

TIA,
Steve
La Grange, IL
[210.6,262.3] Rn, apparently



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:52:07 -0500
From: "Rich Beecher" <rbeecher at hotmail.com>
Subject: Breiss Roasted Barley

15 March

Greetings All,

   The use of Breiss' "Roasted Barley" in stout was remarked on in the last 
digest. Their website (below) shows that they also make a "Black Barley", 
which is similar to the "Roasted Barley", but more heavily roasted (500-500L 
vs. 275-325L). They also make a "Black Malt" (475-525L). I suspect that a 
combination of the three might give the best results, depending, of course, 
on one's taste. In fact, their product description for the "Roased Barley" 
recommends using it in combination with other dark components to obtain the 
desired color & taste.

http://www.breiss.com/products.htm

Best Regards,
Rich Beecher
Martinsburg, WV  USA

(In Reply To)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:46:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at yahoo.com>
Subject: Breiss Roasted Barley in Stout





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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:46:36 -0500
From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Grain Storage

Brian wrote:
> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:25:06 -0800
> From: "Brian Schar" <schar at vimedical.com>
> Subject: Grain storage
> 
> At your local pet food store, you can get various sizes of a thing called a
> Vittles Vault, which comes in a variety of sizes corresponding to big bags
> of pet food.  It's made of heavy plastic & has a wide screw-on lid that
> seats tightly.  I store cat food in one, and have never had a problem with
> spoilage or insect infestation, even when faced with an ant invasion one
> year that got into darn near everything else.  I would think you could store
> grain in one of these pretty safely.
> 
> Brian Schar
> Menlo Park, CA
> Rennerian calculator is off-line!

Having purchased a large number of these Gamma Lock containers from US
Plastics as well as a Vittle's Vault I can say that these are exactly
the same thing.  However, US Plastics has them for substantially less
than the pet stores (Petco in my case).

Todd
Westford, MA


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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:57:48 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at comcast.net>
Subject: Rennerian Calculator moved

A recent post from Brian in Menlo Park, CA, indicated that the Rennerian
Calculator was offline.

When I was undergoing ISP transition from  at home to  at comcast, I feared
that Comcast may not have their act together, thus threatening the
continued hosting of the calculator on my personal pages.

A gracious and willing HBD janitor (Pat) answered the call.  The
"Official" Rennerian Calculator location is now on the HBD web site,
http://www.hbd.org, under the HBD FAQ section, 2nd to last entry.

I did manage to get a 'mirror' of the calculator up, located at
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/levetzowbt/homebrew/rennerian.html
Don't go hunting for other beer-related stuff, 'cause there isn't 
any (yet).

Beer me.
- -- 
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:33:41 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: wy3068

AJ deLange writes...

>I'm not much of a geneticist but the POF gene which lends the clove
>flavor is heterozygotic (is that the right term?) I.E. its a single gene
> - not a pair) and thus is lost is succesive uses.
[...]

I don't have enough practical experience with 3068 to say,  but it like most
weizen yeast the results are finicky.    I've gotten unexpectedly mild 4VG
from a batch but later gotten higher levels from the offspring of the same
slurry.  I'm currently a fan of YKC's weizen yeast.

I'm not prepared to challenge AJs assertion - but something sounds wrong
about it.   If the decarboxylating POF gene was lost so fast and completely
it would almost certainly be history.  Instead I read that ALL S.cerevisea
carry a POF gene but it is not active in most brewing yeast.  I'm not enough
of a geneticist to suss out how the polypoid yeast and vegetative
reproduction would play into the numbers.

Before plating out your yeast and regrowing a slurry be sure to check that
your wort has enough ferulic acid precursor to 4VG to give the clovey
flavor.  Raw grains have more ferulic than malt, and wheat has much more
than barley.  An enzyme active around 43C releases ferulic from malt - so a
rest may improve the 4VG level dramatically.

More practical than a genetic analysis I think you should look to your yeast
harvesting methods too.   Many weizen yeast are autolysis prone and crummy
flocculators - if some of these traits are closely associated with POF
expression then it would be easy to select less POFy yeast.

There may also be undocumented environmental conditions that impact
expression of the POF gene.  I know a pro brewer who claims he can balance
the weizen esters and phenolics by varying pitching rates and fermentation
temps - he  great brewer but I'm a bit skeptical.

Oh yeah - those medicinal infection flavors are due to wild yeast
decarboxylating cinnamic acid to styrene in a similar chemical maneuver.

Maybe George dePiro - master of the weizens will respond.(cc:)

 -S




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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:48:53 -0500
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Beer to style

Greetings,

I am curious what the judges out there think of when seeing a beer recipe
not to style.  For instance a Bitter that clocks in at 1.041 when the
guidelines call for a maximum SG of 1.038?  The slightly stronger beer
should taste better and potentially mask some flaws. Do judges in the AHA
contest see recipes?  Would an ordinary bitter be kicked up to Special
Bitter?  What about a Bock at 1.060 when it should be 1.068?  Not that I am
speaking from personal experience.  :>)

I ask this as I try to formulate recipes for myself that I also might
enter............We have to balance what we like with what the guidelines
call for.  Brewing to the guidelines certainly gets results from I can
tell............But then again we have to have a standard to work from.

Regards,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:49:18 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Using pH test paper:  How???

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:10:09 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Daniel Chisholm said:

>Second question: my pH seemed to be stubbornly high for last night's
>brew.  Untreated water read off the scale high (not surprising).  My
>mash, made with untreated water, after half an hour also read high off
>the scale (I think.  Or was it 6.2?  Could it be 5.8?  Certainly not
>lower than that, but it could be anywhere from 5.8 to more than 6.2). 
>Adding 8 grams of CaCl2 to the mash and stirring valiantly yielded....
>no change.  Adding 1/4 tsp 10% phosphoric acid yielded.... no change. 
>Adding 1 tsp. 88 % lactic acid yielded.... no change. 

You weren't reusing the same part of the same test strip every time,
were you?
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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