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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Survival of the fittest...yeast! (bpickerill)
  Re:  Exploding carboy story........ (John Maylone)
  Rochefort clone ("Groenigen,  J.W. van")
  UK Homebrew / Beer In the UK (Tony Barnsley)
  Exploding Cargirls ("Steven Parfitt")
  Reminder BUZZ OFF HB Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Hot Pepper Beer (Paul Kensler)
  indoor propane (glen)
  Tasting Notes - those "other" beverages (Nathan Kanous)
  Back yard mini-pub (Jeff Renner)
  Hops Climates (NM)" <MarkC.Lane at voicestream.com>
  Mini-fridge tap conversion ("TED MAJOR")
  CALLING BEER JUDGES: Upper Mississippi Mash-Out April 27-28 (allan.boyce)
  re: clear Weizen beer/Survival of the fittest...yeast! ("Steve Alexander")
  Sam Smith Imperial Stout recipe ("Schrempp, Michael")
  Why? ("Larry Bristol")
  Re:Cleveland Restaurants ("Kurt Schweter")
  Under-modified malts for decoction (John Palmer)
  Re: Exploding Carboy ("Dave Williams")
  RE: Thermocouple Wire ("Jeff Berton")
  re: decoction (Scott Murman)
  clear Weizen beer (ensmingr)
  Pepper Beer ("Josh Jensen")
  Baaaaa-ha-ha-ha... ("James Sploonta")
  Or how 'bout this one ("James Sploonta")
  Re: Saving Yeast (Nathan Matta)
  Klein sighting? (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Greater Montreal Homebrew Competition ("Aaron Marchand")
  Triple  at  Middle Ages (Darrell.Leavitt)
  NHC Great Lakes - 2nd Call for Judges/Stewards (Joe Preiser)
  All-rye lager ("Jeffrey Gordon")
  clear Weizen beer ("Steve Alexander")


* Maltose Falcons 2002 Mayfaire Competition 
* Entries accepted 4/1/02 - 4/11/02
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com for details
*
* MCAB-IV - April 12-13, 2002 - Cleveland Ohio
* See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info
*
* HOPS BOPS XIX   Entry Deadline 4/17/2002
* Details: http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/   
*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:34:41 -0500
From: bpickerill at mac.com
Subject: Re: Survival of the fittest...yeast! 


On Sunday, April 7, 2002, at 11:27 PM, Request Address Only - No 
Articles wrote:

> Survival of the fittest...yeast!
>

I'd say get a bottle of Omegang and culture up the yeast from the 
bottle.  This
is close to what you are describing.  (High temp is fine with this 
yeast.  Not
sure about atenuation though.)  I have not actually brewed with it yet, 
but I
do find it to be a very nice Belgian style beer.  Some of my brew 
friends have
used it and told me that it does fine at high temps.

- --Brian



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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:49:26 -0700
From: John Maylone <mrkoala at psnw.com>
Subject: Re:  Exploding carboy story........



Steve Jones, <stjones1 at chartertn.net> reported the story of his friend's
exploding carboy, apparently caused by the inverted box resting on the
airlock.  

Containment of the shards and handy carrying handles were the two main
reasons why I popped for some of the Williams Brewing carboy jackets.  The
exposed airlock seems to be another good reason.

John in Tollhouse




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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:25:03 +0200
From: "Groenigen, J.W. van" <J.W.vanGroenigen at Alterra.wag-ur.nl>
Subject: Rochefort clone


Hi all,

I would really like to brew something approaching a Rochefort 8, since in my
humble opinion this is the best Trappist around (although I never tasted the
Westvleteren ales). It also seems to be one of the Trappists with the fewest
clone-attempts - maybe because it is quite difficult to get in the U.S.?
Anyway, there was a discussion a few years back on the HBD where some
information was shared on the supposed ingredients. Did anyone ever try to
brew a clone and if so, with what results? I'd really like to get a recipe.

thanks,

Jan Willem van Groenigen.
Wageningen, the Netherlands, a long way from the center of the brewing
universe....


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:42:45 +0100 
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: UK Homebrew / Beer In the UK

Arnaud Asked

> How do I subscribe to the UK Homebrew discussion list?

After a few problems we had to switch hosts, and then we had to switch hosts
again.

The UK Homebrew List is alive and well living on Smartgroups (Although it
appears to be as slow as a cold slug on valium ATM ;-'> )

To subscribe send a blank email to

mailto:uk-homebrew-subscribe at smartgroups.com

Reply to the mail you receive from the list bot. If you want a daily Digest
then once you have subscribed send a mail to 

mailto:uk-homebrew-setdigest at smartgroups.com

I was somewhat amused to read Jeff Renner's post regarding the 'quality' of
beer in one of the villages he was staying at in the UK. It is only too sad
that there are many 'real ale' pubs in the UK that do not know or care about
how beer should be looked after. As an example during university vacations I
used to work at a real ale pub (Greene King) in a small village in Essex. We
would religiously pull the warm beer from the lines at the beginning of the
evening session, even doing it if the customers requested it. This beer was
poured down the sink of course. Don't be silly of course it wasn't!! It was
taken down into the cellar and 'stored' in a stainless pail. At the end of
the evening the dregs from the drip trays were also added to the pail. The
contents of the pail were then filtered (vial a funnel and filter paper)
back into the cask of best bitter.

That's only one of the problems of cask ales in the UK. In Scotland they
came up with the idea of 'pale' mild ale primarily because the landlords
would add the dregs back to the dark mild.

- --
Wassail!
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) (UK Homebrew List Co Manager)
Rennerian Coordinates (I'm Not Lost! I'm A Man, I don't ask for directions)

UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK
              Managed by home brewers for home brewers



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:00:40 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Exploding Cargirls

Steve Jones reported on an acquaintances (wink, wink) carboy exploding after 
having a cardboard box placed over it for light protection.

I am in the habit of wrapping my carboys in old towels to protect them from 
light. This has the disadvantage of also thermally insolating them, but I 
ferment in the basement where it is cool for the most part. I ocasionally 
move them upstairs if it is too cool downstairs and the towels seem to do 
their job even in the dining room where they are exposed to a large south 
facing window.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery,
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian
http://www.thegimp.8k.com
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:39:25 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Reminder BUZZ OFF HB Competition

Second notice of 2002 Buzz Off Homebrew Competition

OK, so those lagers should have been started or very soon need to be.  But
there's plenty of time to get the ales made for this year's Buzz Off will be
held on Saturday, June 1st at Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant in West
Chester, PA.  Entries will be accepted from May 13th through May 29th at
regional homebrew stores and at Victory Brewing Company in Downingtown, PA.
Mail-in entries must go to Victory and be received no later than Wednesday
May 29th.  The Buzz Off is once again an MCAB Qualifying Event for the 2003
MCAB.  Judges please contact us to reserve your position at the judging
tables.  Further details and forms can be found at the Buzz web site at
http://hbd.org/buzz/.   

> David Houseman
> Competition Organizer
> housemanfam at earthlink.net


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 06:07:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Hot Pepper Beer

Colby,
I once brewed a chipotle-rauch beer, roughly based on
a recipe I got from Noonan's Seven Barrel Brewery
Handbook.  Chipotles are smoked jalapenos, and I
really love their flavor and aroma in food - they
complemented the smoked malt nicely (real Bamberg
beechwood smoked brewers malt, not the peated
distillers malt). 

My notes are at home and I can send you the
particulars if you're interested, but the grain bill
was mostly two-row, with crystal and rauchmalt.  I
added the chipotles late in the boil and although the
recipe called for more in the secondary, I skipped
that addition because the beer was plenty hot!  I did
add a small amount of crused black peppercorns to the
secondary.

The beer turned out with a wonderful malty, sweet,
smoky flavor (I love rauchbeers anyway) and was REALLY
hot at first - but the hotness mellowed out after a
month or two of aging and became more balanced.  It
was a dark amber color, a little fruity (I used Wyeast
1272) and bitterness was intentionally on the low
side.  

This was a beer that my friends either loved, or
caused them to start scraping their tongues on their
sleeves.  It made a great addition to chili, and
although I liked the finished product it wasn't
something I was frequently in the mood for a glass of.


I hope this helps,

Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:41:24 -0400
From: glen at pannicke.net
Subject: indoor propane

C.D. Pritchard wrote about indoor propane:

>Roger Deschner posted a good news article on the dangers of propane
>if not used safely...  
>The lessons in both sources- don't bring cylinders inside or pipe in
>high pressure propane and check pipe and (especially) hoses for
>leaks.  

But what am I to do with my propane stove and 100# cylinder?  How
will I cook my food?  Why hasn't my kitchen blown up in the past 50
years?  How can it be that all the other houses in my neighborhood
which use propane to heat not only their stoves, but dry their
clothes, heat their houses and heat their water are still standing?

While the above is intended to be facetious, the following is not.

Propane is just as deadly as natural gas and electricity if used
unsafely - only more spectacular.  Portable cyclinders make it easier
for the novice do-it-yourselfer to fiddle around with it and
disregard proper safety precautions resulting in a higher incident
rate.  The biggest screw up is that people don't check for leaks
every time they hook up to the tank and the valve is not turned off
when not in use. It seems that it's too much of a hassle to check the
two most common causes of accidents.  B-BOOM!!!

Glen Pannicke




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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:45:26 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Tasting Notes - those "other" beverages

Hi Folks,
I just got this from someone else.  I don't know if this group of beer 
geeks actually did a tasting of these beverages but I must admit I had a 
hell of a laugh.  I seems a bit more on target for some of us that the 
Page-a-Day Calendar offers.
nathan in madison, wi

1. Zima - smells like 7-up, alcoholic water, fresca w/ alcohol. Tastes like 
squirt
with an extra squirt.

2. Bacardi Silver - great package, sweet rubbing alcohol, got floor wax? 
fusels.
Will they still be making this when I'm 21?

3. Skyy Blue - Grapefruit juice with a splash of drano, citrusy, really, 
really
sweet.  Would serve to people I don't care about.

4. Smirnoff Ice - Turkish bathhouse soap in flavor and aroma, lemonade with
alcohol and sweet and sour mix, sprite with soap.

5. Mike's Hard Lemonade - This is worse than sucking sweat off of donkey
*^#%s.  Flavor better than aroma.

6. Hooch Ice - Smells like $#%, tastes like $ at *.  Smells like 
diapers.  Tastes like
Ben Gay smells.  Bad aftertaste lingers. It was cool of your older brother 
to pick
this up for us.

7. DNA Fruit Fantasy - Peachy aroma, bad fuzzy navel, Athletes foot and
mouth.  Peaches and cream.  Rotten peaches with new york seltzer.

8. Thick Head Lemonade - Smells like someone went poo in my margarita.  Bad
candy-apple margarita.  Buttery. Good example of fusels.

9. Sublime Lemon - Smells like a rotting pumpkin, sugary. Rotten to the core.
Bad Lemonade.  Did you see my LBC tatoo?  My mom doesn't know about it
yet.

10. Caribbean Twist Lime - Unholy color.  Looks like anti-freeze.  Lime otter
pop.  Take out the sugar and add tequila.  Bitter lime life saver.

11.  Sublime Tangerine - Sunny delight with alcohol. Rotten tang.  Breakfast
drink for the alcoholic in your life.

12 Caribbean Twist Pineapple - I would rather drink anti-freeze.  Imitation
pineapple jolly rancher with soda water.  Pine Sol Apple.

13. Two Dogs Orange Brew - Bad Orangina, tasteless and odorless were the
high points.  Cloying sweetness. I don't feel drunk.

14. Twisted Tea - Smells like Lipton with lemon flavor, can't taste the 
alcohol.
Lipton w/liquor.  By far the best of the lot.

15.  Sparks 6.0 - Iodine color cough syrup with alcohol. Smells like red bull.
Putrid color.  Malt flavored red bull. Wired and drunk, what a wonderful trend.

16.  Sublime Raspberry - Pink Lemonade, flower aroma, no raspberry flavor.
Like a starburst.  Does this really have alcohol in it?

17. Caribbean Twist Watermelon - Way Way too sweet, Jolly rancher, cotton
candy.  Like my grandmother's perfume in the 1960's, bubblegum.

18. St. Ides Mixed Berry - Hey Kool Aid Man!!!

19. Tequiza - Morning after drinking flavor in my mouth, smells like lucky
charms.  Bready, lightly musty.

20. The entire dump bucket from the whole tasting mixed together - better than
most, too much watermelon, Yeah, well, what did you expect?



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:30:40 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Back yard mini-pub

Just posted on Oz CraftBrewing] Digest:

>    Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:05:27 +0930
>    From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
>Subject: What a shed!
>
>Check out what this enterprising company has done. I could see 
>myself in one of these :-)
>
>http://www.keenmacpubs.com/home.htm

I second this recommendation.  Incredible!  This Irish company is 
manufacturing mini-pubs for your back yard.  Check it out!

I wonder what my deed restrictions and the zoning commission would 
have to say about this.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:04:25 -0700 
From: "Lane, Mark C. (NM)" <MarkC.Lane at voicestream.com>
Subject: Hops Climates

I live in the desert southwest.  Is there any data (or anybody with
experience) that show the effect of raising hops in desert climates?  Does
heat have any effect on the various hops parameters (alpha-acid content,
co-humulone levels, etc.)?  My house (and subsequent "garden") is at an
elevation of 5500' AMSL.  Temeperatures in the summer typically range from
the mid-90's to low-100's.  Rainfall is slim, but I water well twice a day.
I planted new cascade, centennial, chinook, and horizon rhizomes last year -
this year is their second year of growth.  I had a decent crop of Cascade
and Horizon hops, but the Centennial and Chinooks (I surmise) received too
much sunlight and didn't grow well.

Anybody with any information on climate effects?  Thanks in advance.

Mark Lane
Albuquerque, NM


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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:38:51 -0400
From: "TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net>
Subject: Mini-fridge tap conversion

Hi all--

I have a 4 cu-ft mini fridge that I'm using as a serving 
fridge. With the door shelves removed, it holds one 5-gal 
keg and the CO2 bottle. Currently, I have the tap mounted 
on a shank through the front door, which means the tap is 
rouighly at knee height. It works fine, but aesthetically 
it is a bit lacking, and I'm tired of stooping to serve a 
beer.

I'd like to mount a tower on top, but I'll have to run the 
beer line through the freezer compartment. I've considered 
insulating between the beer line and the freezer wall, but 
I doubt whether that will prevent the line from freezing.

Has anyone else dealt with this situation before? Any 
clever (or not-so-clever) solutions to share?

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:48:09 -0500
From: allan.boyce at usbank.com
Subject: CALLING BEER JUDGES: Upper Mississippi Mash-Out April 27-28

Calling all Beer Judges (or wanna-be Beer Judges!)

We're looking for a few good tasters.
The Upper Mississippi Mash-Out Beer, Mead and Cider Competition needs
you!

We will be doing two sessions of judging on Saturday, April 27 at 3pm
and 7pm, and another session on Sunday, April 28 at 1:30pm.  The
location is Harwell's Steak House and Brewery in Shakopee.  We have
need of BJCP-certified judges, but you are welcome to help if you
would like to learn how to judge - inexperienced judges will be
teamed with Certified judges.

This is the first year of this contest, cosponsored by the Minnesota
Home Brewers Association and the St.Paul Homebrew Club.  Please help
us to make it a great success!

For more information, go to http://www.mnbrewers.com/mashout.

Contact us at mash-out at nbrewer.com if you are interested.





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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:34:27 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: clear Weizen beer/Survival of the fittest...yeast!

Pete Ensminger writes ...

>There's nothing wrong with a clear Hefe Weizen!
>
>I lived in southern Germany for 2 years and consumed hundreds of
>bottles of Hefe Weizen from many different breweries. In all
>cases, the beer was clear in the glass as long as my pour did not
>disturb the yeast (Hefe) on the bottom of the bottle. Never saw
>protein haze.

I'm think you're right about the lack of protein haze Pete, but
in my 5 weeks in S.Germany I was never served a clear hefe.
They were universally served turbid - from yeast I assume.

Kunze discussed hefe-weizen production using a 35C-37C
(121F-125F) mash-in. for proteolysis.  This low-120Fs rest is
normally avoided because it can kill head and body
(and haze)  when using modern barley malt ...  I have
no idea how to square this with George dePiro's
comments.  George is of course quite well known for
his weizen's at the Albany Pump Station.

>Accidentally clear Hefeweizen can be caused by several factors:
>
>1.  Protein rest during mash (unnecessary with almost all modern malts)


For bottle carbonation Kunze gives three methods. A
6-7% speise addition of sterilized "first worts".
Alternatively "casting wort" or a bottom fermentation
krausen.  The first wort speise *seems* to be the
preferred method, tho' I don't recall ever hearing
much about this on HBD.

===============

Casey writes ...

>Essentially, I would like to create a yeast that doesn't create so many
>fusel alcohols and off flavors at high temperatures (around 100-105).

Crazy - but a great idea IMO.

>Perhaps those yeast that are less active and have just fallen out would
>be the best candidates in a batch (as opposed to the active ones
>still in suspension...but I welcome corrections) and I would harvest
>several generations weeding out those that remain active.

I think this is probably not a valid selection mechanism.  You'll be
selecting yeast for flocculence, not temperature performance.
Yeast flocculate when they are unable to grow - so you
are selecting metabolic losers (aka loosers).

>Should I slowly raise the
>temperature or just go straight to the 100 range? I will most likely be
>using a space heater in some enclosure, so I can control it with
>accuracy.

Just a suggestion but how about a water bath and an aquarium heater.
Much cheaper, easier and more stable I think.

Ale yeast can often stand 100F, and they typically prefer higher
temps(80F+) for growth. 37.5C-39.8C(99.5F-103.6) is the
upper limit growth temp for ales,  and 31.6-34C(89F-93.2) for
lager strains.  I'd start weeding out the riff-raff by fermenting at
98F-100F.

>What would be the best way to get the yeast with this desired
>characteristic

Hard to say.  Ale yeast generally generate more fusels and esters than lager
strains but can stand higher temps.   Fusel production is a by-product of
two difference pathways related to amino acids & yeast protein production.
If yeast have too little amino acids in the wort they end up 'manufacturing'
the precursors, and some of these precursors end up as fusels.   If the
amino levels are high however, the cell pools quantities of these precursors
so more amino acids are produced.   This ability is strain related.
Incidentally the fusels aren't some little metabolic accident.  It appears
that yeast generate fusels in order to balance their internal redox state.
Mostly this is accomplished by generating glycerol, but it may be the
bio-logic behind fusels too.

I *think* you might have some luck finding a candidate yeast for high temps
if you start looking among the ale yeast known to be capable of handling
high alcohol levels - since some of the same stresses apply.  Another
interesting possibility is using wine yeast for brewing.  I once made a
wit-like beverage using champagne yeast and it was really quite good.  I
suspect some have better temperature performance re fusels and upper growth
temps than most ale yeast.

As for selection - perhaps if you chose yeast that perform well in a high
temp, low amino acid media (like part wort and part sugar  at  100F) while
attenuating it well (still in suspension near attenuation limit) maybe you'd
have part of the solution.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:00:41 -0700 
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: Sam Smith Imperial Stout recipe

Had a bottle of Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout this weekend. Mighty tasty. I
promoted it to the top of my "make this next list". I have the coarse
numbers from a book (OG = 1.027, FG  = I forget, Hops = 9 IBU). I'm looking
for a recipe.

Thanks,
Mike Schrempp
Gig Harbor, WA


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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:08:58 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Why?

Have you ever asked yourself that question?  Have you ever really asked
yourself why you brew beer?

I brewed my very first batch of beer in April of 1982.  So I took two
vacation days last Thursday and Friday to celebrate this 20th
anniversary.  First, I brewed up a beer that has a very special meaning
to me.  Then, as I sat on the platform of the "Station" containing my
brewery, relaxing, enjoying a Dos Hombres Dominican Presidente cigar,
and a pint of my Scotch ale (one of the few beers I know that can stand
up to such a cigar), I reflected on the most recent brewing session,
and what I was going to change for the next one.  Then something
occurred to me, "Change for the next one?  After 20 years of brewing
you STILL do not have it down, do you?  Why do you keep doing this? 
Why do you brew beer?"

Heady stuff...

There is no question as to why I started brewing.  A friend of mine,
just returned from a job in Scotland, told me of the wonderful beers he
had enjoyed there.  We went out looking for imports, and I discovered
that there was a lot more to beer than domestic mega swill, the only
beer I had ever known.  The beer scene in 1982 Texas was rather dismal,
but we did manage to find Guinness stout, Belhaven Scottish ale, and
Fuller's ESB, all in bottles.  I still enjoy these excellent beers, but
even then, I wanted more variety.  In order to satisfy that desire, I
began learning to brew my own.

Of course, the beer scene has changed since then.  I have changed since
then.  My brewing methods have changed since then.  I no longer have to
brew to get variety.  So... why?

It seems to me that there are a lot of different reasons why people
brew.  Some do it professionally, as commercial brewmeisters, authors,
or shop merchants.  To some, it is the technical challenge of knowing
exactly what is happening chemically, biologically, and/or physically. 
To others, it might be the satisfaction derived from performing a skill
at a high proficiency.  Still others enjoy the socialization that comes
either directly from sharing the brewing experience with others, or
indirectly from sharing the brewing results with others.  And of
course, some simply like the beer for itself.

As I reflected on my question, I soon realized that none of these
reasons really explained why I brew.  Perhaps I brew for a little bit
of all these things combined.  But I could see that this was neither a
complete nor satisfactory answer.  I am not a brewing professional; I
am not even a technical brewer.  I do not claim a high degree of skill.
 While others are welcome, I brew alone more often than not.  I am
happy to say that my beer is quite popular, but even if no one else
liked it, I would still brew it.  There definitely is more to it than
these factors.

The key question for why I brew was, "After 20 years you STILL do not
have it down, do you?"  I dug out my notes and reviewed 20 years of
brewing history.  There it was all laid bare - those first beer kits,
the extract brews, the first partial mash, the first all-grain attempt,
the first successful all-grain attempt <grin>, the first lager attempt,
and on and on and on.  With all of those changes, were any two batches
really the same?  Probably not!

About a year ago (after a mere 19 years of brewing), I regarded myself
as a pretty decent brewer.  I was certainly happy with the beer I was
making.  I enjoyed the beer knowledge, the process, the socialization,
and the beer itself.  In spite of this, I changed everything - a new
location, new brewing water, 10 gallon batches instead of 5, all new
mash equipment and an unfamiliar mash/lauter system (Hermes), a new
fermentation vessel, and so on.  In spite of all the false starts and
near disasters resulting from all these changes, I am having fun.  In
fact, I am downright giddy about brewing.  It almost feels like it was
1982 again and I am learning to brew all over again.

20 from now, I hope that I will still be having fun.  I hope I will
still be learning new things, new tricks, new ways to influence the
outcome of my efforts.  I hope I will still question every little step
in the process.  And I hope that I will have the courage to throw away
all of the comfortable habits and equipment and start all over again. 
Because I am now learning things that never occurred to me before. 
Because I am having fun, and this is the reason I brew.

[Just in case you have not figured this out by now, I am inviting the
members of the HBD community to express their reasons for brewing.]


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX   AR=[1093.6,223.2]
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:14:19 -0400
From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com>
Subject: Re:Cleveland Restaurants

go to Great lakes Brewery (I think that's the name )-
adjacent to the west side market
for that matter go to the market - I think they are open on Saturday - 
the market is one of the few things I make sure to go to when I'm
back there




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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:22:55 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Under-modified malts for decoction

I just wanted to voice a thought that came from a conversation I had with 
Don O'Conner of St.Pat's at this past years AHA NHC.
We were discussing the O'Conners tour of the Czech Republic where they 
visited several malting houses and breweries. This was the trip that 
acquired the under-modified malt, I believe.
Anyway, In recounting his discussion of the malts and decoction with the 
Czech maltsters, Don was musing that they had said that they fully malted 
it to the best of their ability. But that the hard northern barley 
varieties had tough husks and needed a "winter" to help the barley 
germinate.  The result of this discussion was that Don and I realized that 
Czech or Continental malts are not so much under-modified, but are *harder* 
to modify. And this difficulty led to the development of the decoction 
mashing technique to better utilize the malt.
To say this another way, European maltsters don't intentionally 
under-modify the malt, they malt it to the best of the barley's capability 
to be malted. Certain hard northern barley varieties are more difficult to 
germinate and malt and therefore require a more intensive mashing technique 
(decoction) to achieve the best extraction.

Probably just demonstrating a keen grasp of the obvious, but hopefully this 
will be helpful to some.
Cheers!
John

John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:34:53 -0400
From: "Dave Williams" <willird at shands.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Exploding Carboy

Greetings brewers, (and you too Mark)
In HBD #3909, Steve Jones relates the story of his friend's  exploding carboy.  
Evidently the airlock clogged but the stopper was held snugly in place by the 
weight of the inverted carboy box used to shield the fermenting beer from light.
Now, beer and hop spooge on the ceiling is only marginally better than beer 
soaked into the carpet.  But any method of shielding your beer from light that 
doesn't result in an exploding carboy will at least allow you to keep most of 
your beer and your carboy. 

When I need to shileld a carboy from light, I take a standard paper grocery 
bag (remember those?), cut a 2" dia hole in the center of the bottom, invert 
the bag, and slide it over the top of the carboy.  The airlock and part of the 
neck of the carboy stick out of the hole and the carboy never explodes (or, 
at least, none have so far).  The bag is a snug fit on the fives, so this may 
not work for six or seven gallon carboys.

Cheers,
Dave Williams 
Head Brewer
The Back Pocket Brewery
"Brewing by the seat of our pants since 1994"  





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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:50:25 -0400
From: "Jeff Berton" <Jeff.Berton at grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Thermocouple Wire

John McGowan writes:
> A reconfiguration of my RIMS has caused my thermocouple
> (Cole-Parmer, T-Type,EW-08439-84) to be approximately
> two feet further from my PID.  Consequently, the cord
> between the thermocouple and the PID is now two feet
> too short as well. I called Cole-Parmer to ask if they
> sell thermocouple extension wire. They do -- in 100
> foot rolls! A bit much (in both length and cost) for
> my needs. They also offer a neat 5 foot extension cord,
> but that costs nearly the same as the thermocouple itself.
>
> Does anyone out there have a spare four feet of 20 gauge
> T-Type thermocouple wire they could part with?


If your setup uses a reference junction, you can use ordinary copper wire,
as long as you want, for the run to the voltmeter.  This introduces no
additional junctions.

Jeff Berton
North Royalton, OH



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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:00:08 -0400
From: Scott Murman <smurman at segosha.net>
Subject: re: decoction


Renner, Alexander, Moline... nice to see the Auld Garde hasn't fallen
yet.  inspired me to post rather than skim.

i've decocted many beers.  not necessarily because of any flavor
benefits, but because it's fun.  i encourage everyone to try it.  just
remember to use an old cheap pot to boil those decoctions.

i would say that following the "classic" decoction schedule is not
only a waste of time, but quite possibly will lead to poor results.
the problem of course is our famous modern well-modified malts.  using
a RIMS setup or similar, you can step through the low temps pretty
quickly, but with decoction mashing by necessity you have to leave the
mash sit for an extended time.  doing so at low temps would be risky.
the schedule i've favored for some time now is this:

mash in at your normal mash temp around 150F.

let set for 45 min., then pull a thick decoction (about 1 gal. of
volume).  and i do mean thick.  as in let the water all drain out.  i
think it was George de Piro that coined the phrase "enzyme soup" for
the mash, and that's what it is.  leave the enzymes in the mash tun
and remove the grain.  don't worry, there's still plenty of starch and
sugar trapped in there.

boil the decoction with about 1/2 qt of added H2O for about 15
minutes, or until you get tired, or run out of beer, or ...  (notice
how you conveniently avoided having to bring the decoction to mash
temps and let it sit?  clever, aren't ye)

add the decoction back to hit your mash-out temp near 165F.

continue as usual.

i'd also recommend that pressure-canning that last qt. or two of wort
that sets in the bottom of the tank (squeeze them hops!), and then
adding it to the 2nd'ary is also a great way to get Mssr. Maillard
cooking in your brews.

 -SM-
Redwood City, CA
i'm gonna brew again soon.  really.  soon as my Pilsener runs out.


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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 13:09:29 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: clear Weizen beer

Not sure exactly what Steve Alexander means by "I was never served a clear
hefe". Whenever I ordered a Hefe Weizen at a bar in Germany, I was given an
opened bottle with a traditional Weizen glass and poured the beer myself.

Of course, the traditional way of pouring a Hefe Weizen is to pour in the Hefe.
But if you poured carefully, you could leave the Hefe at the bottom of the
bottle and get a clear beer with no protein haze. These were fresh German Hefe
Weizen beers, not the old and stale Hefe Weizens imported from Germany that are
typically sold here in the US, which, BTW, are also clear when poured carefully
from the bottle.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr

Steve Alexander wrote:

> Pete Ensminger writes ...
>
> >There's nothing wrong with a clear Hefe Weizen!
> >
> >I lived in southern Germany for 2 years and consumed hundreds of
> >bottles of Hefe Weizen from many different breweries. In all
> >cases, the beer was clear in the glass as long as my pour did not
> >disturb the yeast (Hefe) on the bottom of the bottle. Never saw
> >protein haze.
>
> I'm think you're right about the lack of protein haze Pete, but
> in my 5 weeks in S.Germany I was never served a clear hefe.
> They were universally served turbid - from yeast I assume.
>
> Kunze discussed hefe-weizen production using a 35C-37C
> (121F-125F) mash-in. for proteolysis.  This low-120Fs rest is
> normally avoided because it can kill head and body
> (and haze)  when using modern barley malt ...  I have
> no idea how to square this with George dePiro's
> comments.  George is of course quite well known for
> his weizen's at the Albany Pump Station.
>



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:32:59 -0700
From: "Josh Jensen" <jupitermoonbrew at hotmail.com>
Subject: Pepper Beer




I made a pepper beer about a year ago that turned out great. I got
a lot of good info from a Brew Your Own back issue. The recipe was
a good IPA I made in the past, with the addition of Ancho Chili
peppers. The good thing about Anchos is their mild heat. From reading
and talking to other homebrewers, I learned the worst thing you can
do is make it too hot. What's the point if you can't drink it?

I used three medium sized Anchos at 15 min left in the boil. To treat
them I roasted them over very low stove top flame until parts of it
were charred black. Then I put them in ziplock bags, and they "sweated"
off part of their skins. Then I diced them, careful to leave the seeds
out. I suppose you could add the seeds for more heat, but since this
was my first try, I went with a cautious approach.

My friends all liked this beer, and no one thought it was too hot. It
had a powerful chili pepper aroma though, so when you smelled it, you
were positive it was going to burn your taste buds off. But the taste
was nice and subtle. It went well with the IPA. Let me know if you want
the actual recipe.

Josh Jensen
Los Angeles, CA



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:56:19 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Baaaaa-ha-ha-ha...

Klein demonstrates his familiarity with beer through the following:

'Leute is the Flemish for "joy" and "bok" means "male goat."  This 
self-styled "bok-bock" was first brewed in 1927 on a farm where several 
goats lived.'

Bravo. Nowhere does he mention the uncanny coincidence that the goat 
symbollizes bock beers everywhere...

(Can't Leute also be translated as "gay"? So this could simply be a gay male 
goat? Uh, never mind...)



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:01:52 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Or how 'bout this one

"The telltale sugary mouthfeel (hyuk!)comes from (giggle) glucose sugar 
(cough, har, har, heee) which (get this!) is not ordinarily found in bocks, 
(gasp! Har, hyuk), or (this is killing me!) in other beers, for that 
matter." Bwahh-ha-ha-ha. Heee, heeeeeeee. Gasp! Haw, heee, heee, hyuk! 
Whimsical descriptive language. Yeah, right. More light abject lack of 
understanding of the subject matter...



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:20:28 -0400
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Saving Yeast

Bob Barrett says:

>bottom of the fermenter.  I use carboys as fermenters.  Then
>my brewing partner, aka my wife Kim, takes a new ziploc 1 gal.
>freezer bag and opens it up so I can dump the liquified slurry
>from the carboy into the bag.  Kim then will get most of the air
>out of the bag and seal it.  We keep the slurry in the fridge
>until we are ready to make a starter for our next batch.  There

2 questions, Bob.  First, how do you (if you do) sanitize the lip
of the carboy?  I was thinking that I might use a kitchen torch to
do this, but I'm never very comfortable applying a great deal of
direct heat to glass.  For some reason I'm always afraid that it
will cause the glass to crack.  Perhaps I'm just wrong on that.  My
second question is about storage.  I've been thinking about trying
this exact technique, but I was wondering whether I would be better
off using the freezer or the fridge.  Does anyone out there have
any words of wisdom about freezing yeast slurry?

========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, USA
[652.2, 86.4] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:28:47 -0400
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: Klein sighting?

Regarding Anderson Valley IPA:

Hop Ottin' starts with a strong floral aroma, which winds into a deep and
complex body.  In an intriguing balance, honey-drenched malts coat rich hop
undertones.  At length, the hops prevail, with a satisfyingly crisp finish.

(From the bottle.)
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy at bergsman.org
http://bergsman.org/jeremy


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:08:19 -0400
From: "Aaron Marchand" <aaron_marchand at hotmail.com>
Subject: Greater Montreal Homebrew Competition

I am proud to announce the 3rd annual Greater Montreal Homebrew =
Competition.There are 3 homebrew shops in the area that are implicated =
though none are directly sponsoring it. they are Mout Internationale, La =
Cachette du Bootlegger and Vinotheque.=20
    entries can be dropped off from the 15th to the 30th of April at =
Mout internationale or at La Cacahette du Bootlegger in=20
st Anne-de-Bellevue. The awards ceremony should take place May 20th =
(Victoria day Monday) at Brutopia brewpub on Crescent st.=20

We have 8 categories and are hoping to accept 85 + entries (based on =
last years entries). The competition is BJCP and AHA sanctioned and is =
listed on their internet list of competitions,as well as on the on the =
CABA website ( www.realbeer/caba ).
    There will be prizes generously donated by Hopunion, White labs, =
Wyeast, Gambrinus Malting, BYO magazine and Listermann, amongst others.=20
Any judges interested in attaending please contact me for arrangements.

Thank-you,

aaron_marchand at hotmail.com


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:13:26 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: Triple  at  Middle Ages


Sorry, this is a shameless plug for a fellow homebrewer and friend, Mike
McDonough,
 who is working with
 Middle Ages Brewing Company,
in Syracuse, NY , to do a Tripel  on their Peter Austin system:

(I had to break the url up ):

http://syracuse.com/
living/poststandard/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1017225953302582.xml


God bless good beer, and those who are able and willing to brew it!

 ..Darrell




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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:33:50 -0500
From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at attbi.com>
Subject: NHC Great Lakes - 2nd Call for Judges/Stewards

This is the second call for judges and stewards for the Great Lakes
region of the NHC 1st Round.  We're rapidly approaching the big weekend
so now is the time to sign up if you've been putting it off.

Below is the text from the initial call.

Please note that we will more than likely require judging on Friday
evening and/or Sunday morning in addition to all day Saturday.  Please
indicate your availability and preference for these sessions.

	Thanks,

	Joe Preiser
	Judge Coordinator.

- ------Original Message------

Call for judges and stewards for the AHA National Homebrew Competition
1st Round judging to be held at the Rock Bottom, 1 West Grand Ave. at
State in Downtown Chicago.  Judging this year will be held on the
weekend of April 26-28 with primary judging on Saturday, April 27
beginning at 9:00 a.m.  This year we have reacquired 1 state (Ohio)
which puts our projected count at over 500 entries. We'd love to
complete the judging in as short a time as possible but can only do this
with adequate judge and steward support.

Lunch will be provided by Rock Bottom's award-winning chef Chip Fegert
and beer will be supplied by their equally award-winning brewer Pete
Crowley.  If that's not enough, we "may" even go out for a beer or two
after the judging is completed on Saturday.  The Rock Bottom is a scant
few feet away from the Grand Ave.  stop of the Red Line "L".  It is also
a brisk walk or a quick cab ride from the 3 downtown Metra Stations. 
Nearby parking is also available.

Contact Joe Preiser at joe at chibeer.org or 630.759.4569 to confirm your
attendance.

Please note whether you will judge or steward and WHICH DAYS you will be
available.  Out-of-towners may also inquire as to the availability of
beds-for-brewers.  Join us for some great homebrew, food and commercial
beer. See you there.

jeff sparrow
jeff at chibeer.org
national homebrew competition - site coordinator


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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:32:11 -0700
From: "Jeffrey Gordon" <jgordon805 at hotmail.com>
Subject: All-rye lager

There's been some discussion about rye
beers lately.  I thought I would share
the recipe for a recent experiment.

Brewed a beer with 11# malted rye as
the grist exclusively. (5gal)
I added 1 1/2 ounces of amalyse
enzyme to aid in conversion though
I'm not sure it was actually
necessary.

The original gravity was 1.048 which
was right about where I wanted it to
be.  I'm using whitelab pilsener
yeast and it's bubbling away actively.

A few notes:  I sparged incredibly
slowly and didn't use rice hulls.
In total the sparge took about two
hours.  It did not stick at all.  I
chose to go slowly.

The wort was... different than the
product of most of my other brews.
This was sort of thick and
gelatinous.  It tasted different
too.  Spicy.

Jeffrey Gordon



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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:48:06 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: clear Weizen beer

Peter Ensminger writes ...

> Not sure exactly what Steve Alexander means by "I was never served a clear
> hefe". Whenever I ordered a Hefe Weizen at a bar in Germany, I was given
an
> opened bottle with a traditional Weizen glass and poured the beer myself.

Interesting - I've been wrenching my memory and I believe I was only
*served* beer in the bottle (glass on the side) at three places.   A Thai
restaurant, a Spanish chain restaurant in Stuttgart, and a bar/restaurant
about 50 miles south.     All others - from upscale white tablecloth places,
to brewery franchise places  to 'round the corner bars and brewery vans at
local fall festivals - the beers came pre-poured and the hefe-'s cloudy.

> Of course, the traditional way of pouring a Hefe Weizen is to pour in the
Hefe.

"Tradition" to an American is the odd stuff your grandmother did 60 years
ago..  It's not that sort of tradition.  Serving hefe's clouded w/yeast
(and/or haze) is standard, normal, conventional - at least in the areas I
frequented.

> But if you poured carefully, you could leave the Hefe at the bottom of the
> bottle ....

Yes Pete, I completely agree.  Fresh hefe's are clear in the bottle or
nearly so.  I had some from markets there -  but no one seems to serve them
clear.

 -S




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---