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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  SAM ADAMS UTOPIA MMII (TOLLEY Matthew)
  kettledrum kettles (BShotola)
  Bubbles in my tubing ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: BT back isssues.... anybody get any? ("Jodie")
  preserving yeast ("John Misrahi")
  Shipping Ban Overturned in Virginia ("H. Dowda")
  Classic Beer Styles books (Althelion)
  RE: Thermocouple Wire ("Jeff Berton")
  Re:  Why ("Doug Hurst")
  Thermocouple wire (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
  Carboy Shading (S & J)
  Bucket for secondary ("John Misrahi")
  HT yeast (Al Klein)
  Bread Yeast (Al Klein)
  re: Thermocouple Wire (John Schnupp)


*
* MCAB-IV - April 12-13, 2002 - Cleveland Ohio
* See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:21:08 +1000
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: SAM ADAMS UTOPIA MMII


>Is this a thing that an average homebrewer could do? 

I don't know about an 'average' homebrewer, but yep.  There was some
discussion about this on the Australian craftbrewers digest (OzCBD) a while
back (it's OK - we understand it's always yesterday there :>).

There was some skepticism about whether beer yeasts could get that high, or
indeed any yeast.  There were suggestions that they'd distilled it on the
sly, or frozen it a la eisbock.  Some thought it would be sickly sweet -
others suggested that there were a variety of 'completely fermentable'
adjunts they could have used to finish dry and cut overall sweetness.

Then we found the 'mutant yeast from Mars':  White Labs WLP099
(http://www.whitelabs.com/wl/gravity.html), which alleges to obtain a
whopping 24% alcohol.

David Lamotte also offered a very interesting piece from this very forum by
Dr Clayton Cone.  You can read David's post@
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CraftBrewing/message/6156 (no membership
required).  In short, you can get pretty much any old ale yeast up past 18%
with massive starters, 30+ppm oxygen levels, mega nutrients and frequent
stirring.

>plus seven years of aging to get there.  

I thought it was only aged in wood for a year.  From the site:

"...brewed with a fine selection of Noble hops, Hallertau
Mittelfrueh,Tettnang Tettnanger, Spalt Spalter and Czech Saaz. The brew is
then aged in port, scotch and cognac barrels. The brew uses: 2 Row
Harrington, Caramel and Vienna Malts. The aroma offers the distinctive smell
of cinnamon and vanilla with subtle hints of floral, citrus and pine. Sam
Adams Utopias MMII offers a rich taste that is surprisingly light on the
palette, featuring a smooth, lingering finish. Samuel Adams Utopias MMII,
the strongest beer in the world to date, has 24 percent alcohol by volume
and is 48 proof."

Nobody in Oz was game enough to have a go at formulating a recipe - anybody
care to apply some Uhmerkan ingenuity to the problem? :)

Cheers!
 ...Matt...



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:13:55 EDT
From: BShotola at aol.com
Subject: kettledrum kettles

Sankefied Brethren,

Being both a percussionist and brewer, I guess that it was only a matter of 
time before my two passions intersected with a bang. Or is it a bong? 
Whatever... Turns out my favorite bass player (fiddle, not fish) just 
finished making his first batch and didn't much like the results.  After all 
his hard work he ended up with the old homebrew twang. Slug bait. Five 
gallons of plant wash.  I asked him some warm up questions about his 
sanitation, like did he wash after using the bathroom, was the carboy by the 
cat box, did he start his siphon with his nostril, and so on. 

Soon he disclosed that he thought the boys at the music store must have given 
him wrong equipment and/or directions. This piqued my interest. Music Store 
Brewers!? I asked him who were these music store boys and what kind of 
equipment was it that they sold him? He replied that he fermented in a big 
copper timpani bowl that they sold him for TWENTY-FIVE bucks and that they 
had four more.  After catching my breath I muttered weakly that maybe he 
should have boiled in the kettledrum and then fermented in glass, but my mind 
was gone. At that point I couldn't think about his twang at all, I was on a 
twang of my own. I immediately went into a thrall visualizing one of those 
big coppers at my place, on my burner, at a fortissimo roll.  Of all people, 
shouldn't a brewing drummer be boiling his wort in a timp kettle? I want some 
of that fanfare for the common man back in my section of the orchestra!

Are any of you brewing in pots made from old copper timpani bowls, and are 
they generally pure copper, or an alloy of copper, brass, etc., and are they 
safe to boil in? Is there a brand, year, etc., which is all copper? How do I 
go about preparing a kettledrum to be a brew kettle? And would another for a 
fermenter be out of the question? Of course not. I am frothing at the mouth. 
Maybe I will take that stained glass class and have my wife sew me a monk's 
robe...

In an unrelated story.... Saturday while listening to Car Talk I sparged 
grain with the magical creaking whirligig and then stirred up the 6 collected 
gallons and took a preboil hydrometer reading of 1045. I have an aversion to 
messing with cooled wort so I did not take another sample after boiling and 
cooling. I boiled off a gallon of water. What was the gravity of the 
subsequent five gallons of boiled wort?  According to my points per pound and 
extraction rate I should have gotten a 1052 OG after the boil. Thanks. If 
there is a reliable conversion for finding OG from preboiled wort, I can 
shelve my wort thief. 



Bob Shotola
Yamhill Oregon


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:54:15 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Bubbles in my tubing

I have the same trouble.  I believe it has to do with flow rate and path,
and how much higher your tun is from your receiving vessel.  Though we are
aiming for a slow flow rate, the siphon principles may be causing the
bubbles.  At this stage, though, I believe oxygenating the wort is less
devastating as the boil will eliminate much O2; Post boil is the touchy
area.
Parker



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:22:22 -0400
From: "Jodie" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: Re: BT back isssues.... anybody get any?

Dave,

Yes, I ordered and received some back issues--and devoured them!

Jodie Barthlow



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:57:05 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: preserving yeast

Hi all. I have been contemplating the best way to preserve yeast for
extended periods. I am waffling between making slants and freezing yeast.
Now I love the idea of freezing , it is so simple and requires no special
equipment, but several people with much more knowledge than me in the world
of biology have told me that freezing is really really really risky and
asking to contaminate and ruin your yeast. So many people here and on
rec.crafts.brewing seem to do it, but i want to know if anyone has had any
bad results due to it. I am probably going to do slants for some yeasts i
dont want to take chances with, but for others that i can readily obtain and
just want to keep on hand, i would love to be able to freeze them with a
sugar or glycerine solution. (I have looked into it - i'm not asking you
guys for an explanation on how to do it, just if it has worked for you and
if the batches of beer made with the frozen yeast fermented normally).

thanks so much
John
Montreal, Canada




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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Shipping Ban Overturned in Virginia

VIRGINIA WINE AND BEER BAN UNCONSTITUTIONAL
A federal judge has ruled that Virginia's ban on
purchasing wine and beer from out of state is
unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Richard 
L. Williams of the Eastern District of Virginia said
that the state's law violates the Constitution's
commerce clause by discriminating against wineries and
breweries in other states that want to sell to 
Virginia residents.
  
http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001698.html

This district (11th?) covers SC, NC, VA, all with
similar laws.



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:34:07 EDT
From: Althelion at aol.com
Subject: Classic Beer Styles books

I've been an avid brewer of many of the recipes found in the Classic Beer 
Styles books. Most of these books are excellent resources of information of 
not only the beer styles, but also the history, geography, technology, etc. 
behind them. Unlike some beer books written a decade or more ago, I feel that 
these books have not become "dated." However, I'm getting the impression that 
there is a widening gap between the BJCP guidlines and the 
descriptions/recipes in the Classic Beer Style books. Comments?

Alan Pearlstein
Commerce Township, Michigan


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:27:10 -0400
From: "Jeff Berton" <Jeff.Berton at grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Thermocouple Wire

Al Klein wrote:
> Thermocouple wire (the wire used to connect the thermocouple to
> whatever it's connected to, not the wire that makes up the
> thermocouple itself) is just insulated low-voltage wire.  Try Radio
> Shack.  The wire they use for connecting intercoms should be perfect -
> thin and flexible and very cheap.

Careful -- connecting an ordinary copper wire to the constantan side
of John's thermocouple introduces another temperature-sensitive 
junction.  It only works if this additional second junction is, in 
fact, the reference junction (as I noted in HBD#3910), if he's using 
a reference junction setup at all.

When I did such things, I ran the constantan side of my thermocouples
into copper-constantan reference junctions, which were immersed in
an ice reference unit.  Then the copper sides of the thermocouple
pairs were wired into an insulated isothermal area (to minimize
thermal gradients) containing all of my electrical connectors.  
Only then can the wire from there to the DC millivoltmeter be 
ordinary wire.

John may be using a different method (he didn't say), such as 
an electrical bridge to compensate for the reference temperature.
In that case he should not introduce another junction and should
instead use the bonafide copper-constantan extension wires like he
wanted.

Regards,
Jeff Berton
North Royalton, OH




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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:49:00 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re:  Why


Why do I brew?  It all started back in college about 14 years ago (that
long already?).  Back in those days I was drinking whichever beer was
cheapest - usually Huber - but had an inkling there were tasty beers out
there.  Guinness was one I liked every now and then.  

I took an introductory Botany class called Plants & Man at the
University of Wisconsin.  The possibly sexist name aside, this was an
extremely interesting class taught by a professor who, perhaps because
he was British ;), was a little on the eccentric side.  His lectures
were swirling stories about the interconnection of the plant kingdom
with the rise of civilization.  It was all very intriguing.  Especially
interesting to me were his assertions that agrarian culture, which
resulted in settlements and later cities, arose out of a need to
maintain a grain stock for brewing beer - not for bread.  We later were
given the assignment of a term paper or project.  Not being the one to
pass up an opportunity to *not* write a term paper, I chose to complete
a project.  One of the options was beer brewing.

I went to the local homebrewing shop, which I'd walked past hundreds of
times but never noticed, and purchased a basic brew kit.  I didn't even
know the difference between hops and barley but I knew I liked Guinness
so my first beer was a stout.  I turned in a description, some photos of
the process, and one six pack as my project.  Needless to say, my grade
in that class was an A.  I remember that first beer to be overly
carbonated, with a thick pile of yeast and trub at the bottom of each
bottle.  But it had the rich maltiness of a heavy stout which I really
liked.

I was hooked.  I continued to brew.  I knew that if I brewed again, my
next beer would be better than the first.  It was.  Every time I brew
now, I feel that the next batch will be even better than the last.  The
continuous drive to improve is one reason I brew.

I also like the fact that making beer is something I can do myself.
It's a handcrafted product of my creation.  This is why the woodworker
carves wood and the glass artisan blows glass.  It may also be why some
people would want to make beer completely from scratch (dirt).  I can
have something which is not a machine made commercial product, brewed,
without human interaction, by some mega corporation done simply because
there is a profit to be made.  My beer is of a higher quality.  I can
choose *not* to cut corners like the mega brewer does.  I can use
ingredients of my choice.  Taking complete ownership and turning out a
quality product, is one reason I brew.

There is also the slightly subversive reason I brew.  I find it somehow
mischievous to brew beer.  I'm making alcohol, a heavily regulated drug,
and am not taxed for it.  In some countries, outside of the United
States, this is a huge cost savings over commercial beer.  Actually, at
this point, I am able to brew two cases of beer for only about $7.00, so
it is a cost savings.

I, like others, have an avid amateur interest in science.  Brewing tunes
me into the scientific.  From enzyme activity to water analysis, to
yeast metabolism, and beyond, there is a lot happening.  I can study
this with as much depth as I'm comfortable with.  There's a never ending
potential of scientific detail to learn about.  I also think lab
equipment is really cool.  This gives me an excuse to play with it.

Brewing is a great focal point for fellowship.  Getting together with a
couple of friends to brew beer can create a strong social connection.
It's a lot better than sitting around simply drinking beer.  You're
working together to create the beer.

Perhaps the most important reason I brew is the spiritual connection I
have with it.  Brewing is an ancient art, dating back into pre-history.
People have been brewing almost as long as there have been people.  When
I brew, I feel a strong connection to that history.  I find learning
about historic brewing practices to be extremely interesting.  Beyond
that, brewing gives me a sense of connection to the natural world.  I'm
using whole ingredients and living organisms and turning them into what
ancient humans considered a majickal beverage.  Perhaps it is.  Alcohol
is a potent drug which when used with caution, thought, care, and
respect can enhance this sense of spiritual connection.  I'm sure the
monks felt this way.

So, this many years later, I'm a more avid brewer than ever.  My
practices have been refined and I've advanced into all grain.  I still
don't see any end to the potential in this hobby.  There's always a
great sense of excitement when I first taste a newly completed beer.  It
always tastes good.

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian
 




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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:43:22 -0400
From: "Hampo, Richard (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
Subject: Thermocouple wire

John Mcgowan asked about thermocouple wire and Al replied in error. 
You cannot just use any wire for hooking up thermocouples. If you do, 
then there will be an additional thermocouple junction generated at the 
dissimilar metal joints (where the thermocouple meets the extending wire). 
The data acquisition unit normally has a compensation for this "cold junction". 

In general, you should use the same type of wire to extend a thermocouple 
(make sure you don't mix the two wires up). You may get away with using 
regular wire if the temperature of the point that the thermocouple wire 
joins the extension is the same temperature as the point where the data 
acquisition system gets the extension wire but that is kind of a "kludge".

Good Luck,

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing
Plymouth, Michigan USA




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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:44:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: sjr101 at webtv.net (S & J)
Subject: Carboy Shading

   Hey fellow Brewers,
   Next time you go to the grocery store, ask for paper, not plastic.
After you put your groceries away, split the seam at the bottom a little
bit. Put the bag over your carboy and let the neck and airlock stick out
through the split.
   Of course you homebrewers downunder just use a Kangaroo or Croc skin!
        Stranded in tropical SE Fla.
                        Scott Ross   



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:20:48 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Bucket for secondary

Would it be a terrible idea to use a bucket without an airlock for a
secondary? its for an english ale, the thing is we are out of carboys (well,
free ones).. its currently been in primary for a week in a bucket. i figure
i can either rack to a secondary bucket or leave it in the primary, rack to
bottling bucket and then bottle. what's the consensus here? i've done the
latter with ales, and the only downside was more sediment in the bottles.
ive never used a bucket for a secondary.

thanks
John
Montreal, Canada





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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:32:19 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: HT yeast

JZ said:

>Eventually it seems you might get some interesting results and won't have
>much trouble with bacteria. Might be fun.

Trying it with lager yeast might be even more fun.  Imagine being able
to produce a good (or even decent) lager entirely at room temperature.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:32:19 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Bread Yeast

>Colby Fry asked:

>There is a local Amish bakery store near my house and they sell bread yeast by
>the pound (red star) at a inexpensive price ~.50 an ounce. Since beer need
>nutrients and dead yeast can supply them, I was curious if the bread yeast
>(pitched during boil) will help feed the yeast?

Why take chances when yeast nutrient costs about the same thing?  (I
assume you meant 50 cents, not half a cent.)
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Thermocouple Wire

From: Al Klein said,
>Thermocouple wire (the wire used to connect the thermocouple to
>whatever it's connected to, not the wire that makes up the
>thermocouple itself) is just insulated low-voltage wire. 

Wrong.  A thermocouple is a junction of two dissimilar metals.
Any two metals in physical contact will create a thermocouple
junction.  

I am not certain of the metals use in a T-type.  If you use
splice in a piece of copper wire you will actually create 4
additional TC junctions.  

You must use the correct wire type so that when the wires in
the splice are connected they will be the same metal.  If the
metal in the two wires is the same there will not be an 
additional TC junction created.  


=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee



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