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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  HT yeast ("John Misrahi")
  BJCP etc. ("Fred Scheer")
  Re: Copper Kettles (John Palmer)
  re:Subject: Carboy Shading (susan woodall)
  Ice Stabilization (Troy Hager)
  Rare Vos? (leavitdg)
  kettledrum kettles ("Parker Dutro")
  Bubbles in my tubing ("Parker Dutro")
  RE: Bucket for secondary ("Parker Dutro")


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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:37:35 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: HT yeast

On a similar note, has anyone used the Whitelabs Super Gravity yeast? They
say it can hit 25% ABV
John


Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:32:19 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: HT yeast

JZ said:

>Eventually it seems you might get some interesting results and won't have
>much trouble with bacteria. Might be fun.

Trying it with lager yeast might be even more fun.  Imagine being able
to produce a good (or even decent) lager entirely at room temperature.
 - ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9]
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net





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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:56:07 -0500
From: "Fred Scheer" <fhopheads at msn.com>
Subject: BJCP etc.

Alan:
As you know the authors of the BJCP Study/beer guidelines are
not the authors for the Classical Beer Style Books, which are
available at the AOB. Therefore, you will have different opinions on
beer styles. I personally think that the BJCP study guidelines
have to be updated and other chapters have to be completely
re-written. I also hope that the AOB publishes more books on
Classical beers.
Fred M. Scheer
Nashville, TN





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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:57:52 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Copper Kettles

Dios Mio!
Copper boiling kettles for $25!!
Weellll Doggies!

I am speculating that they are not pure copper, they are likely brass 
(Cu/Zn) or bronze (Cu/Sn), but either would be fine. And don't give me that 
whine about lead - it just is not present in a significant amount. 
Although, Bob, if you can find out a manufacturer on the timpini kettles, 
it would be a good idea to identify the alloy conclusively.  Checking my 
desk reference book, musical instruments (probably trumpets and tubas), are 
cited as being made of Low Brass with is 80/20 Cu/Zn, with 0 lead. Could be 
they use the same alloy for these kettles, since most manufacturers don't 
have any imagination when it comes to alloy selection. "Use the same thing..."

That being said, these should make great boilers! How big are they? Do not 
clean them with alkaline cleaners! Use dish detergent and a sponge for 
routine cleaning, and Straight A or PBW for the initial cleaning. You do 
not, repeat do not, want to clean the copper shiny bright between uses. It 
should turn a dull copper color with use. You want the passive oxide layer 
to build up to minimize the dissolution of copper into the wort. Copper and 
zinc are both beneficial to the wort, and with the advent of stainless 
steel in brewing 50 years ago, breweries noticed a big difference in the 
amount of sulfites in the beer that exposure to copper helped take out. But 
you don't want too much of a good thing.


John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:23:04 -0700
From: susan woodall <woodsusa at moscow.com>
Subject: re:Subject: Carboy Shading

I have also used a standard black plastic bag over my fermenter with no
problems what so ever!



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:07:10 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Ice Stabilization

Fellow Brewers,

While re-reading G. Fix's (RIP-we all miss him) Principles of Brewing
Science I ran across the section on Ice Stabilization on p. 149 and the
concept is unique to me (and in the HB world it seems as well - I did some
searches in the archives and found nothing) although it seems to have many
benefits. Beer treated with the "ice" method, Fix says, "tends to have
remarkable flavor stability" and "tends to be very smooth because all the
"rough edges" in their precursors have been removed..." Fix mentions in the
notes to his Dort. Export recipe that was on his site: "we have had
excellent results with the icing procedure discussed in the 2nd edition of
PoBS...". This method is used by the commercial breweries (I'm thinking
that's what "ice filtering" is referring to) but does not seem to be used by
anyone as a homebrewer and although it adds a few more steps in the lagering
process, for those who use a temp. controlled freezer to lager in, it
doesn't seem to be all that difficult. The benefits that are sited in the
book are intriguing and so I'm wondering why haven't I ever heard of people
using this method as HBers.

For those who don't know what I am talking about here are the basic details.
At some point in the lagering process - timing isn't very clear in the book
although he mentions commercially it is done right after the centrifuge -
the beer is lowered to about -4C (about 25F) where the beer starts to freeze
and small ice crystal form taking up about 5% of the volume of the beer.
This means that only a small increase in the alcohol level of the beer will
result. Ice stabilization is different than the well known "ice beer"
methods traditionally used in high-alcohol bock beers which remove a
significant amount of water with significant increases in alcohol and is
therefore is classified as a distillation process. Ice stabilization is not.

After the ice crystals form they are removed through filtration or other
methods used in commercial breweries. The benefits sited in the book are:

"First, it acts on both haze-active phenols and proteins. Thus, it is a
substitute for PVPP and silica gels. Test brews have shown there is about a
5% decrease in simple phenols, tannins, and haze-forming proteins over what
is normally achieved in fining procedures using PVPP or silica gel. Yet
remarkably, data presented in the next section shows that there is about a
threefold increase in chill-haze proofing. This result is indirect evidence
that slight ice formation is more selective in the removal of haze-forming
compounds than exogenous absorbents."

He goes on to say that the method will significantly reduce the beer's
oxidation state as well. He says that a beer that is treated with the ice
stabilization method and polished up with a 3-5 micron filter will remain
*very* haze proof and stable.

Is there anyone out there that has tried this or has any insight into this
method? Also, Fix says that in the single-tank version, "a general rule is
that 72 hours at -3C will keep ice formation below 5%..." My question is
would there be any detriment in lagering for a longer period at this
temperature. What if the last 2-4 weeks of lagering time was done down in
the 27-25F range and then separated from the ice?


Troy Hager
San Mateo, CA
 



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:51:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Rare Vos?

Anyone have a recipe for Rare Vos from Ommegang Brewery?  I just tried a 
bottle that has been sitting for several months....and it is wonderful!  Amber
in color,...I know how to do that, I guess...some special B?...but I think that
for me the challenge is the correct yeast...It is rather dry/ hard to describe..
 ...Belgian in style...perhaps I can use the Quebec Belgian Yeast that will 
arrive next week form Northern Brewer?.....

Suggestions would be very welcome.

 ..Darrell


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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:41:27 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: kettledrum kettles

Bob,
Hey, I wish I was answering your inquiry on copper drums, but I'm not.  I
don't think copper is a wise idea for fermenting, or cooking, but I won't go
into why I feel this way because I am usually misinformed and end up
sounding dumb.  I noticed, however,  you mentioned that you're a
percussionist, and live in Yamhill, Oregon?  I am a Portlander, and also a
drummer, so I thought I'd just give a shout out to a native!  Oh yeah, did I
mention I'm into homebrewing, too?  Anyway, it's off the subject so I won't
continue to babble.  Best of luck in the banging (or is it bonging?) and
brewing and all.  Keep smackin' those skins.
Parker Dutro
Portland, Oregon



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:51:29 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Bubbles in my tubing

Well, after a bit of reading I have learned that anytime wort above 80 deg.
is aerated, it can adversely affect the beer and contribute to early
staling.  All concerns are minute, though, anless you happened to be pumping
pure O2 into the wort or plan to save your beers for more than a couple
years.  Sorry for the misinformation.
Parker



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:57:01 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE: Bucket for secondary

John,
It is possible to use a food grade bucket as a secondary fermenter, but the
plastic will allow oxygen into your beer, and this will harm it.  As for the
measure of damage it might cause, I don't know.  Any long term beer storage
really should be in glass or stainless steel.  To rack into another plastic
container would reduce the sediment in your bottles, but my suggestion if
you can't get a carboy would be to wait until you know the beer is done
fermenting in the primary (use a hydrometer, please)  and bottle straight
out of the primary.  I know a lot of guys that will do this occasionally,
and have no problems, but the initial fermentation MUST be done, otherwise
when the yeast begin converting the corn sugar to CO2 the remaining sugar
from the wort will make bottle bombs.  I you are kegging, you have less to
worry about.  Good luck.



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