HOMEBREW Digest #3931 Fri 03 May 2002

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  HSA or MBO (Paul Mahoney)
  Re: mash/boil oxidation (Joel Plutchak)
  Re: faucet integrity (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Trub as Fertilizer? (Steve C Cobble)
  re: Lemon beer (John Schnupp)
  Re: Pinkus Munster Alt Clone (Rick)
  Big Brew/Virtual BrewTM (Richard Foote)
  RE: roggenbier ("Dennis Lewis")
  Lemon beer (Roger & Roxy Whyman)
  Re: (gak) respect ("Larry Bristol")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:41:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com> Subject: HSA or MBO Brewers: Thanks to S. Alexander, et al for their informative posts on this topic. In particular the practical suggestions for avoiding this problem. In previous HBDs there was a discussion about using campden tablets in your brewing water to remove or minimize chloramines. It appears that many municipal water systems are using this substance in their water, and this poses some problems for our brewing. I have been crushing .5 to 1 campden tablet and adding it to my brewing water (8 gallons) the night before a brew session. I do not know how many grams this is (the tablet is approx. the size of an adult aspirin), but it appears that this may be excessive, based upon the posted comments. But I do not detect any sulfite "bite". Perhaps a vigorous boil eliminates this problem. So I guess I have been unknowingly reducing this problem! Woo-Hoo! I also appreciate the other practical suggestions. I do not want to re-open old debates, but I have been partially covering my boils for years. When I remove the lid I take care that the condensation on the inside of the lid does not fall back into the boil pot (DMS worries). The discussion about the indicators of oxidation was most helpful. I was stuck in the "sherry, cardboard taste" phase. The other indicators forced me to re-evaluate my flavor assessments. For example, I had associated the increasing threshold of caramel tastes with an excessive use of crystal or Vienna malts, not with oxidation. Thanks for the informative and helpful postings. Paul Mahoney Roanoke, Va. Star City Brewers Guild Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:31:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: mash/boil oxidation "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> wrote: > However, I really do not think it is merely the name (the condition > formerly known as HSA) to which people object. It is, rather, the > relative severity of the problem that causes the disagreement. MBO > clearly impacts some more than others, and is apparently also a major > cause of sleep disorders among homebrewers. Some homebrewers see a > problem they want to correct while others do not understand what all > the fuss is about. A third category: people who understand what the fuss is about but know from experience it's just not worth fussing with. > First, if you perceive that your beer shows objectionable signs of > oxidation, then by all means you should take steps to correct that > problem, as well as any insomnia that might result. > Second, when one of the many people tells you that their beer does not > show signs of oxidation, then congratulate them rather than insisting > that this cannot be true. ...maybe they just know something that > you do not. Spot on. Tilting at little windmills is great for those who want to build Quixotic legends around themselves, but I don't know that it does a lot of good for many others. Seems to me there's a nice way that already exists to see how much effect HSA (sorry Brian, the new term hasn't taken hold yet ;-) has on real life (home)brewing. One great thing about George Fix was that he used his beers and an existing blind evaluation process to gather data about them-- the sanctioned homebrew competition. Take a look around at the winners of homebrew competitions. Find out who uses mash and boil floats, CO2 blankets, campden tablets in the mash/boil, etc. See if it correlates with good scores in competition. I'll volunteer my data to the cause. Joel Plutchak, [275.4, 238.2] Apparent Rennerian Brewing scientifically-proven horribly oxidated yet curiously tasty peer-reviewed beer in East-Central IL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 10:48:23 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: faucet integrity "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> asks >How bad of an idea is it to leave a plastic picnic faucet hooked up to a >charged keg? I've never had a leak, but I always try to remember to unhook >when I am done dispensing (of course, I forget from time to time). I have >visions of finding 5 gallons of beer sloshing around the bottom of my beer >fridge. If this is not a realistic worry, then that would be great. Good question, but not to worry. I've never had one leak, nor have I ever heard of one leaking. However, what has happened to me is a leak between the hose and the faucet. I got lazy and didn't use a hose clamp on my solera ale a few years ago. The friction fit was so tight I got away with it until the pressure from the continuing lactic fermentation in the keg got so high it started spewing inside the cellar beer closet. My daughter was dog sitting while we were on vacation and for some reason checked the closet - probably to get a beer, and discovered it. Much to her credit, she knew what to do. She released pressure and removed the hose. I am better at using hose clamps now. Jeff - -- ***Please note my new address*** Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:19:32 -0400 From: Steve C Cobble <stevecobble at juno.com> Subject: Re: Trub as Fertilizer? Anyone with experience or suggestions relating to using trub or spent grain, as fertilizer in the garden? Would I kill my tomatoes or give them a boost? Or should I let them break down with the rest of my grass clippings/mulch/organic waste pile till next year....Justa thought Steve Cobble [650.2, 86.6] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Lemon beer This little thread on lemon beer couldn't be better timed. I just racked a 10 gallon batch and I have to honestly say this is the first bad, IMO, beer I've brewed in several years. I've been using the same basic recipe so I'm not exactly sure what went wrong. I've adding the zest and juice of one lemon to each 5 gallon primary. I also add the zest and juice of one lemon to the secondary. The batch I brewed last year had a "pithy" flavor to it. Almost like I got too deep when peeling the zest off of the lemon. This year it is much worse. This year it also tastes very dry. Kind of a pucker sensation. Last year was the first time I brewed this at my current location. It might be the well water, but I doubt it as I have successfully brewed other beers, even some that had a similar recipe. I have not changed my technique (at least not to my knowledge). I did change my false bottom to one of the curved ones from More Beer but that should not have caused this. Also I did get a little better extraction than I anticipated. I seem to get better extraction with 10 gallon batches than I do with 5 gallons. It is not undrinkable but it is not one of my best brews by far. Most of the posts I've seen have suggested adding the lemon at bottling time. I think next time I will try that and see how it works. ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:25:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pinkus Munster Alt Clone >I don't know much about the Alt's so I really don't >know if it isclose to the original German style, or >what. Mike, Sorry I don't have a clone recipe, but Pinkus' version is to style, however it is much different from the Duesseldorf style Alts that predominate the Alt category. Really any beer brewed with German Alt yeast, fermented warm and undergoing a lagering process can be called an Alt. The Duesseldorf style is much darker (copper to brown) and has more bitterness (40-60 ibu). If you really want to brew a Pinkus clone, make sure you find a recipe for that beer. Regular Alt recipes will give you a much different beer. Rick Seibt Mentor, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:00:04 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Big Brew/Virtual BrewTM Brewers, Fell free to join us at http://members.prestige.net/dbeergut/video.html for our annual Virtual BrewTM live coverage of Big Brew 2002! That's right. Coming to you live and in living (well mostly) color from the back deck of the dbeergut Brewery! Just one of the many fine home breweries of the Chicken City Ale Raisers Home Brewers' Club of NE Georgia. This year's features: -Ceremonial toast to start the festivities -Live video and chat -A special performance by "HSA and the Agitators" -Special cameo appearances by Jennifer Connelly, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Jennifer Anniston and Jenny the Wonder Mule Okay, maybe I got carried away there toward the end. See you at Big Brew. Rick Foote Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:06:22 -0400 From: "Dennis Lewis" <DBLewis at LewisDevelopment.com> Subject: RE: roggenbier Hi all. Rob Dewhirst reminded me that I never followed up with my story of the roggenbier (like Bavarian weissbier, except rye malt in place of the wheat malt) from last summer/fall. So here it is, and after you read it, I'm sure you'll understand why I've tried to forget it.... > I was researching this style in the HBD archives and saw your messages. > > Did you ever make this? I couldn't find a followup report. > > rob I posted something a few days later, but basically it was a huge brewday from hell. My idea was to make a 'weissbier' but use rye malt instead. Following Michael Jackson's reports, I made a 60% rye, 20% pils, 20% light crystal mash. Don't recall if I tried to decoct or not....probably should have. At the very least, I did a full temp mash. The mash was very oily feeling. If you got a few drops on your hands it felt extremely slippery, not just sticky. The runoff never really cleared, nor did it ever stop passing chunks thru the lauter tun even with a pound of rice hulls in a 5 gallon batch! I have a pump for recirculating and I recirced for almost an hour. I got terrible extraction out of the process too, like 27 ppg vs my usual 32+ for a decocted weissbier, which I attributed partly to a poor crush on the rye because it is quite a bit smaller than wheat malt. So, the boil goes ok, then I drop in my immersion chiller and chill to 70F. My finish volume seems sort of high, but my notes were sketchy. I checked the SG at the end of the boil and it was around 10.5P instead of the 13.5P that it should have been. Turns out the my immersion chiller had a pin-hole leak that added about a gallon to the final volume. Drat! So, I pitched the yeast and fermented anyway. I wasn't about to boil again--it had already been a 10 hour day. It tastes ok--not very interesting because it tastes watered down. The rye does add a spicy character, but the phenolics from the yeast really compete with it. There's no obvious sign of infection from the additional water, but how do you tell when you have a weissbier yeast anyway.... The beer is a very interesting orangey-pink color with a pinkish tan head. Much different that anything I've ever seen. My recommendations for future attempts: 1. Reread this post and make a different beer ;-) 2. Decoct at this mash at least twice to help clear the lauter faster 3. Shoot for at least a 13.5P brew (like 1.057) to help the malt flavors compete with the yeast. 4. Crush the rye separately from the other grains, resetting the gap on my JSP mill to much, much narrower. Would I do it again? Probably not. So I'll use the extra rye that I have laying around to spice up pale ales and bitters. Dennis Lewis "When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." --Henny Youngman [175.3mi, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:42:57 -0600 From: Roger & Roxy Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com> Subject: Lemon beer A few years ago, I made a couple of wheat beers and added lemon grass. One, I added 5 oz. in the last 5 min. of the boil in a 15 gal batch. In the other, I "dry hopped" 1.7 oz in a 5 gal keg. I think I liked the dry hopped version the best, but that was a few years ago and my memory is starting to slip. Anyway, get the lemon grass from a natural food market, cut off the stem and throw away, chop the bulb into small pieces and your set. I actually place 3rd in a local contest with one of them. Good luck, Roger Whyman Parker,CO Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:22:20 -0500 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: (gak) respect On Thu, 2 May 2002 00:13:54 -0400, Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> wrote: >Now, I'm seriously considering taking leave of this group. When someone like >Larry Bristol can come in here and start spewing phrases like "spirit of >mutual respect" and things of that sort, I can only feel that this forum is >on the slippery slope to civility, and that's a thought that chills me to >the bone. If I want that sort of thing, I'll hang out in the CraftBrewing >Digest, where those obnoxiously polite and pleasant Australians hold court. >Please people, remember... We're beer drinkers. As such, a certain level of >crass rudeness is expected of us by society as a whole. Jeez, Brian! I call myself a cunning linguist right here in front of God and the whole collective, and you worry about the digest not having a certain level of rash crudeness? [Wasn't that what you said? Sometimes I mix up parts of words, you know. Doc says I'm lesdixic.] And anyway, my tongue was no where near my cheek at the time! [Do you think maybe I have gone about as far as I should go with this one?] Please don't leave us! Every group needs one person (and only one, but thanks to all the others who are volunteering about now) who can tell anyone that they are full of s**t and make them laugh about it! I nominate you! And another thing. My wife is mad at me because of the telephone message I took for her today. "Someone from the Guyana College called. They said to tell you your Pabst Beer was normal." What the hell is her problem? Return to table of contents
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