---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  faucet integrity ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re Extract Brew Woes (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Re: HSA Problems - S Alexander's practical suggestions ("Steve Alexander")
  foam (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Lemon Brew (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  I think my brew is infected! (Ross Cohn)
  Re:Power Tools ("Peter Fantasia")
  RE:Omaha & Chicago Recommendations ("Paul Erbe")
  Re:Neck Ring and/or Infection & Extract brew woes ("Peter Fantasia")
  Lemon beer ("TED MAJOR")
  Classic American Pilsners with rice (Gary M Chumney)
  WHY NOT..LEMON BREW ("Smith,Brian H")
  Re: mash/boil oxidation ("Larry Bristol")
  New Orleans Brews ("Dennis Waltman")
  Cool! ("James Sploonta")
  Re: My recirculation, chilling, aeration and yeast pitching method (Jeff Renner)
  Deadline for Sunshine Challenge XIII entries (Don Lake)
  A correction, more on MBO, and (gak) respect (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: HSA Problems (Jim Adwell)
  SoFB Entries being accepted until May 11 ("phil sides jr")
  Re;  Cold Break Removal -  why bother? ("Bill Frazier")
  Big propane tank? (Paul Kensler)


*
* 10th annual Spirit of Free Beer entry deadline is 5/11/02
* Details at http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/
*
* 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002
* Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm
*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:49:42 -0700
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: faucet integrity

Hello,
How bad of an idea is it to leave a plastic picnic faucet hooked up to a 
charged keg?  I've never had a leak, but I always try to remember to unhook 
when I am done dispensing (of course, I forget from time to time).  I have 
visions of finding 5 gallons of beer sloshing around the bottom of my beer 
fridge.  If this is not a realistic worry, then that would be great.

I would really like to have 4 types of beer on tap, but it seems like each 
line will add about another $40... any thoughts on making that less 
expensive?  What about using ball valves?

Thanks,
Mike O'Donnell
Pacific Grove, CA




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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:59:06 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM>
Subject: Re Extract Brew Woes

G'day MAthew and welcome to the madness.

Ok so you have some problems...

>I wasn't surprised when white,
>moldlike dots started appearing in my secondary fermentor.  In fact, other
>than a clearly off-flavor from whatever that was, the beer was surprisingly
>tasty.

>It's my second attempt that troubles me.  I just can't figure out where I
>went wrong, but I suspect it was in the fermentation. 

I would say that the major problem is Sanitation Sanitation Sanitation. If
you are getting mould and the like things are not clean. Scrub everything 
with a good douse of bleach and then treat with Idophor. I would do 
this again and again.... Sanitation is next to Godliness.

If you have taps and the like on the Fermentor unscrew and clean. Clean
any and all hoses and importantly your brewing space. 

Have i sounded anal enough about cleaning. The more anal you are the better
off you'll be.

Scotty




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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 04:24:32 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: HSA Problems - S Alexander's practical suggestions

Gregor Zellmann writes ...

>[...] I would
> like to know more about:
>
[...]]
> > /sulfites in the mash/boil ***
> Could you please report which sulfites you add to your boil/mash and how
> much of them?

I've used campden tablets (a combination of sodium and potassium
metabisulphite) at around 1 to 2 grams in the mash for a 20L batch of beer.
This should produce about 40-80ppm of SO2.   This seems like a *lot* of
metabisulphite to me, but it's below the levels used by winemakers.  Campden
tablets are commonly used by winemakers to develop 100ppm of sulphite in
unfermented wine must.

I've only done this a couple of times - pils beers both times -  and the
method produce a notably light colored beer with good flavor
characteristics.   I haven't performed a controlled test of the method.
Only recently, as I prepared an talk for the recent MCAB did I come to
realize all of the advantages that sulphites bestow.

Sulphites -
 - inhibit certain of the oxidase enzymes in the mash,
 - prevent the Maillard processes and phenolic oxidation that lead to wort
darkening,
 - mask the flavors of aldehydes,
 - reduce the rate of lipid auto-oxidation and carbonyl formation.

They're a cure-all, and except that some people are allergic, can be highly
recommended.  Yeast, particularly certain lager yeasts, produce some
sulphites during fermentation.

In the ASBC paper that Jim Adwell gave the web-link for the other day the
researchers added comparable levels (1.275gm of potassium metabisulphite to
15L of wort) at he beginning of the boil (the ASBC paper has several typos
btw), and the beer had lower trans-2-nonenal potential than a control and
higher levels (1.5ppm) of SO2 in aged beer, and according to the authors
"very good stability".  They measure the results in terms of oxididation
products - oxidized polyphenols, oxidized sulphites(sulphates), carbonyls
and oxidized isohumulone.

Some of the same Belgian authors published a study in (JIBv105pp269-274,
Noel et al) in which they take a commercial beer and treat it with various
"stabilization" chemicals and then age the samples both naturally  at 20C
and also at 40C with some O18 isotopic oxygen in the headspace.  Cold-side
aeration.

Sulphite (13ppm of SO2) strongly protected polyphenols from oxidation.
PVPP treatment reduced the levels of polyphenols, but increased the level of
sulphite oxidiation.
Ascorbic acid additions caused a huge increase in sulphite and polyphenol
oxidiation !  The mechanism is the same one that is involved when reductones
from dark malt appear in beer.  Ascorbic and reductones are anti-oxidants -
but if they are oxidized and given a tiny amount of Cu or Fe - then they
actually catalyze the oxidation reactions.
- ----

> > / CO2 or nitrogen in the mash/boiler headspace.
> This suggestion obvioulsly *would* minimize contact of O2 and mash/wort,
but
> isn't it a bit expensive [...] How stabil are "cushions" (sp?) of CO2 on
mash (stiring)
> and wort (stiring, evaporation)?

'Cushions' of non-O2 gas are certainly imperfect barriers, but if used with
a lidded mash and a partially lidded boil I would expect that you would
decrease the amount of O2 at the wort surface considerably.

> > / make a mash/boil 'float' to reduce surface area.
> Possible while mashing. But doesn't one want a vigourous boil with an
> evaporation of around 10 % of the wort volume? A "float" on the wort
surface
> would greatly reduce the evaporation rate, no? I hate DMS  related, cooked
> vegetable taste in my beers (and I know what I'm talking about here)!

I agree DMS is very bad.  I had a lager at a brewpub last week that tasted
like DMS soup - just terrible.

A partial surface cover should not reduce the boil-off rate.  Boil-off is
directly related to the amount of water vapor that must be removed to keep
the wort at the boiling point.  If the boiloff is reduced and the heat in
and out otherwise is held constant - then pressure must build up which is
not possible.   My hunch is that boiling wort might boilover the float and
so have access to more oxygen.

> > / use a lid
> Same as above

Probably a better approach for the boiler than the 'float'.  A lid can
reduce boiloff by condensing vapor (and heating the lid) and adding this
back to the wort.  Still commercial brewery boilers have a vapor outlet that
is only a few percent of the boiler wort surface area.  Very small vapor
aperatures compared to homebrew.  I think that a partial lid with an
insulated top would be ideal.  This would cause the lid to heat quickly and
reduce the amount of lid recondensation.  The insulated lid would probably
get too hot to condense much DMS.

> > / use fresh crushed malt
> Easy for me

A couple studies show more lipid oxidation the longer the time from crush to
mash-in.  Despite this there is a trend in the US for microbreweries to use
pre-crushed malt.  I guess it doesn't matter if you the last of it by day 28
after pitching.

> > / remove break
> Pretty easy too


> Which of the mentioned methods are you using with your brews?

I've experimented with sulphite addition and it seems practical and it also
seems to have an clear effect on the beer color - so I have some confidence
that this is effective.  I intend to use this more.

I have for some years used a lidded mash tun and a partly lidded boiler
(with a sheet of insulation material).  I think this helps too.

I mash in a sanke, then I push a copper manifold to the tun bottom, and
recirculate wort till clear, then pump it (while adding sparge water to the
mash tun) into the boiler.  I think that this prevents a certain abount of
oxygen exposure.

I probably don't practice adequate break removal !  A manifold, CFC and
recirculating pump make break separation convenient,  but allows all the
cold break and some of the hot into the fermenter.  An insertion chiller and
a racking cane probably are better for break removal.  This could be solved
by using a secondary fermenter but that is sometimes inconvenient too.
Sometimes (not often) I've chilled unpitched wort to near freezing
overnight, and the cold break formation is impressive.   I *think* this
level of break removal can be a good thing for the wort flavors - but the
yeast enjoy the trub lipids and particles so there is a corresponding loss.

 A few years ago Andy Walsh (under the pseudonym Arnold Chickenshorts)
posted about adding a CO2 cushion to the mash-tun when the crushed malt was
added and using lids.   I use this cushion at times, but I am uncertain
about its effectiveness.

 -S




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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:09:46 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: foam

Ricardo;

  there is an anti foam chemical that some use,...and I am sure that if you
look through the past issues this year you will see it discussed.,...or
someone will post it again.

 I always have a blow-off tube, clean and ready for moments like that.  It
is merely a tube that has been sanitized, that one
fits into the hole where the airlock would go. The other end can go into a
plastic gallon jug, also sanitized...filled 1/2 way up
with water and just a touch of chlorox....this way the blow-off goes into
the jug...and not all over the floor, or the ceiling, which
has been my experience several times...when I wasn't paying attention.  Of
course, the temperature of fermentation is important here as well, for
example, for some of the Trappist/Abbey strains of WhiteLabs, as I recall
staying under 65F
is important...

I think that the bottles that foam are due to either over-carbonation from
too much corn sugar added at bottling time,
or the yeast had not finished,,,ie you bottled too soon...?

Good luck and Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell
[545.7, 72.3 Apparently Rennerian]

      A Hearty Thanks to the Janitors For Keeping This Forum Alive!



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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:15:08 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: Lemon Brew

Jason asks about a Lemon Brew.  I have not done so, but last year I brewed
a Hefe and put a good dose of lemon extract in the bottling bucket, just
for kicks, and it came out very good...something like a
Hefe-lemonade...sort of...nice for a hot summers day drink!

 ..Darrell


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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 06:10:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ross Cohn <artnculture at yahoo.com>
Subject: I think my brew is infected!

Hi all,
So I have been fermenting this mead for a year now and
recently I noticed something on the surface and some
particles on the sides at the water level.  It doesn't
look fuzzy, but it's not bubbles, and the particles
are like little bits and pieces.

Could this be yeast culture that has risen with the
temperature change in NJ or is this some kind of
infection?  Is there some way I can test to see what
it is?  I am tempted to try and "taste test"  but that
whole "dying from botchulism" thing really doiesn't
appeal to me.

yeeesh,
Ross
  
- --- Request Address Only - No Articles
<homebrew-request@hbd.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> HOMEBREW Digest #3924		             Thu 25 April
> 2002
> 
> 
> 	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
> 		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
> 
> 
>
***************************************************************
>        THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU
> BY: 
> 
>           Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
>         http://www.northernbrewer.com 
> 1-800-681-2739
> 
>     Support those who support you! Visit our
> sponsor's site!
> ********** Also visit
> http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********
> 
> 
> Contents:
>   Yahoo! Group for contest announcements and results
> posting (Robert Marshall)
>   Inline Water Heaters (Steven J. Owens)
>   Re Barley Wine (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line
> Telesales Representative)
>   Prison beers . . . (Ray Daniels)
>   Atlanta Micro's and HB Shops ("Mark Nelson")
>   Re: Hello again! ("Chad Gould")
>   Mango wit - suggestions? (IndSys, SalemVA)"
> <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com>
>   Re: High Pressure Lager Yeast L 36 ("Gregor
> Zellmann")
>   Cleaning the taps and lines ("Berggren, Stefan")
>   Here's a hot one: brewing in the bottle? ("James
> Sploonta")
>   Hops brew pubs (DHinrichs)
>   Re: HSA stuff ("Larry Bristol")
>   Atlanta brews ("Dennis Waltman")
>   Sunshine Challenge Competition - Top Ten Reasons
> (Don Lake)
>   Koehler (Paul Mahoney)
>   Diacetyl Please ("Bates, Floyd G")
> 
> 
> *
> * 10th annual Spirit of Free Beer entry deadline is
> 5/11/02
> * Details at http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/
> *
> * 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002
> * Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm
> *
> * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
> * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
> *
> * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
> *
> 
> Send articles for __publication_only__ to
> post@hbd.org
> 
> If your e-mail account is being deleted, please
> unsubscribe first!!
> 
> To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message
> with the word
>   "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org
> FROM THE E-MAIL
>   ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR
> UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
> IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you
> cannot subscribe to
>   the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not
> correct your address
>   for the automation - that's your job.
> 
> The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation
> is copyright 
>   HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by
> their authors. ASK 
>   before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble.
> Digest content 
>   cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or
> profit.
> 
> More information is available by sending the word
> "info" to 
> req at hbd.org.
> 
> JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen
> (janitor@hbd.org)
> 
> 
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Robert Marshall <robertjm1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Yahoo! Group for contest announcements and
> results posting
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Just a quick note. A few months ago
> I created a new Yahoo! Group for
> announcements of homebrew competitions,
> as well as the results of those
> competitions. At the present time its 
> pretty anemic.
> 
> Sure, its a duplicate of anything
> announced here, but free publicity
> is free publicity.
> 
> If you feel like announcing your contest
> feel free to join!
> 
> The url of the group is:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_contests
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Robert Marshall
> NNY Brewing Co. (NO, not N. New York, No-Name-Yet!)
> [6653.5, 339.5] Apparent Rennerian
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:32:18 -0400
> From: puffmail at darksleep.com (Steven J. Owens)
> Subject: Inline Water Heaters
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
>      This is an odd question, but bear with me... we
> go camping for
> two weeks every year (Pennsic).  Calling it
> "camping" is a bit
> inaccurate... it's more like a two-week party in the
> woods.  I know a
> lot of homebrewers who brew up a lot of batches just
> for this trip.
> 
>      By camping standards, it tends to be quite
> luxurious.  For the
> last ten years or so, people have been bringing
> their own shower
> arrangements, driven off the piped-in water provided
> on site.  For the
> last five years or so, RV water heaters for hot
> showers have been
> quite popular, heaters like this:
> 
>      http://www.bigdiscountrv.com/water_heaters.html
> 
> 
> 
>      Last year we decided to finally get one for our
> camp.  Most of
> the water heaters people use are much like normal
> water heaters - they
> have a holding tank, heat up the water into the
> holding tank, when you
> shower you draw water off of the holding tank.  But
> we came across
> this more expensive, on-demand Paloma water heater:
> 
>     
>
http://www.globaltownewarehouse.com/HomeProducts/paloma/palomachart.htm
> 
>      It costs about twice what the other model
> costs.  I tend to like
> the idea of on-demand systems, for all sorts of
> reasons, but the extra
> $200 for a gadget I'll use 2 weeks out of the year
> is a big down side.
> The the thought occurred to me; I've been wanting a
> RIMS for
> years. Maybe this puppy could serve double-duty.  
> 
>      What do you folks think about the Paloma's
> suitability for a RIMS
> system?  (or conversely, do you have any suggestions
> for an inline
> RIMS heater that could also serve as a portable,
> propane-driven shower
> heater?)
> 
> 
=== message truncated ===




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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:22:38 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:Power Tools

Bravo Larry, my hat is off to you! Well said.

Pete Fantasia
NJ


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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:32:35 -0500
From: "Paul Erbe" <Paul.Erbe at mullinconsulting.com>
Subject: RE:Omaha & Chicago Recommendations

Eriq asks:

>After I've passed through Omaha, I will be settling in 
>the Chicago area, and I'd also like recommendations of a 
>HB supply store, preferably in the Northwest Suburbs.

Having been a home brewer for around 10 years and living in
the NW suburbs of Chicago the entire time I think I can
manage a response here.

I would classify the shops in Chicago as adequate.  I find
myself mail ordering a number of things on a regular basis.
The most convenient NW shop is Brew & Grow on Bode Road in
Schaumburg. If you are a little further north there is a Health
food store in Crystal Lake that has a good selection.  Ted Enright
who posts regularly at the B&V works there part time.

There are also shops on the west and south side but they can be a 
haul from the NW.

Paul Erbe
Mt. Prospect, IL


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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:47:03 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:Neck Ring and/or Infection & Extract brew woes

Both the problems mentioned are related to sanitizing deficiencies. With
that said let me point out the obvious. Sanitizing does no good if the
equipment (bottles, pots for aerating) are not scrupulously clean. I have
had the ring in the neck problem and I traced it to a home cultured Chimay
strain that would stick to  the sides of the bottles and refuse to be rinsed
out. The bottles had to stand with a bleach solution overnight to be truly
clean. If you add one step or bleach solution to a bottle and it foams that
usually means the bottle is not really clean and needs more cleaning.

On extract woes I would ask if your aerating pots were clean and sanitized
and did you leave your wort chiller in the boiling wort 10 - 15 minutes to
sanitize before beginning cooling? It is really important to make sure all
the gunk is cleaned out of a glass primary. I use a really strong bleach
solution and let it sit a few days. How active was your starter and what was
the lag time? Check each step of your process and you'll find the culprit.
Hang in there and if all else fails check the lambic posts out. LOL

"Cleanliness is next to goodliness"

Pete Fantasia
NJ


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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:19:52 -0400
From: "TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net>
Subject: Lemon beer

Some years ago, a co-worker of mine shared a bottle of 
lemon beer that he brewed. It was quite tasty. I don't 
remember the recipe details, but it was a basic 5-gallon 
batch of extract ale with a bottle of grocery-store lemon 
extract added at bottling.

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:15:04 -0400
From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com>
Subject: Classic American Pilsners with rice

        I was asked for some history about the comment that I made abut
using rice instead of corn for my American pilsners and how I got started
making them.  I got started making the Classic American pilsners the
correct way when I read a pamphlet about decoction mashing by Allen Toby
from Berkeley Press.  It had not been long after the strike that affected
all of the major breweries in the late middle 1970's.  I had kept notes
on the flavor differences that I had noticed and found the beers lacking
in both bitterness and malt; in other words beer had become A MALT POP. 
I began looking again for ways to obtain better beer.  Job changes and a
new child stopped the brewing process for a while ( read lack of money
and space).  Moved into a larger residence and had a basement with a
spare refrigerator.  I went with the family to a local fair and there
before my eyes was what I had been waiting, home brew making in public. 
Ron Downer had a display that had kits, different kind of grains and
hops.  I was drawn into the area like a moth to the flame.  I was going
to make some real beers.  I made a few beers following Fred Eckhardt's
Lager Beer book.  Then I took the plunge to all grain brewing.  Never
forgetting the beer I missed.  The first two beers were the single
infusion mashes, then a couple of lagers using the step infusion mash, a
couple of decoction mashes and then the split mash using a cereal boil
and decoction mash.  Most of the malts we had at this time was 6-row
malts with some 2-row malt.  I had bought a Corna Grain mill at this
time, I hated to by grain  pre crushed.  I did some modifications to it
to hold more grain and used a drill to mill the grains I used in mashing.
 The mill was set with a feeler gage to where I  made crush of the
different grain sizes.  I set it for 2-row malt at 0.044", the setting
for 6-row was at 0.035" and other cereal grains at 0.025".  I loved the
weekends that I got to make what I called real drinking beer for summer. 
Since that period of time I have upgraded my recipes and began using some
6-row malt in a modified cereal mash instead of a boil for two hours with
a small amount of citric acid.

Old Budweiser  2.6 SRM     20.8 IBU

3.5#          6-row lager malt
3.5#          Pilsner malt
3.5#          medium grain rice

0.5 oz        Cluster pellets  at 6.8 % alpha acid for 60 min
0.25 oz.     Hallertau Tradition pellets at 3.5 % alpha acid for 30 min
0.25 oz.     Tettnanger pellets at 5.6 % alpha acid for 15 min
0.25 oz.     Czech Saaz pellets at 3.9 % alpha acid for 5 min.

Old Michelob   4.6 SRM     21.7 IBU

2 #          6-row lager malt
1 #          Vienna malt
3 #           Pilsner malt
0.5 #        10 Lov. crystal  malt
2 #           medium grain rice

0.5 oz.      Hallertau Tradition pellets at 3.5 % alpha acid for 60 min
0.25 oz.    Hallertau Tradition pellets at 3.5 % alpha acid for 30 min
0.25 oz.    Tettnanger pellets at 5.6 % alpha acid for 20 min
0.25 oz.    Hallertau Tradition pellets at 3.5 % alpha acid for 15 min
0.25 oz.     Czech Saaz pellets at 3.9 % alpha acid for 5 min.


        For all of the above recipes I treated Knoxville water with 1/2
teaspoon of Calcium Chloride in the mash water at approximately 1.35
quarts per pound which was about 3.5 gallons of water.  The rice was
boiled with about 1/4 pound of 6-row malt and 3/4 gallon per pound.  The
temperature was raised in the boil to a rest at 138 for 10 min then to a
rest of 158 for 20 minutes.  then to boiling for 30 min. 

        I used a modified infusion decoction method for the mash.  I
mixed the malts with about 1 pint per pound to wet the grains and for a
short mix and rest at 95 degrees F for 25 minutes to soak up all the
water to achieve a thorough wetting of all the grains.  I then infused
about half of the remaining water at 168 degrees to have a rest at 122
degrees for 15 minutes.  I then added the rest of the water at boiling to
achieve a rest of 144 degrees F for 20 min.  If I have timed everything
properly I add the rice mixture to the mash and achieve the rest of 155
degrees F. for 40 minutes.  Check the conversion of the starches and if
all is converted, I then remove most of the liquid and bring to a boil
for 10 minutes and add back into the mash tun to rest a about 168 degrees
for 20 minutes.  I recirculate the first runnings to get a relatively
clear run off and begin the sparge with about 3 to 3 1/2 gallons of
sparge water at 175 degrees F.  I collect about 6.5 gallons of sweet wort
to begin the boil.  Once boiling has begun start the hop additions.  Boil
for a total of one hour adding Irish moss during the last 10 min of the
boil.  I usually give the wort at this time a stir to begin the settling
of the hops and trub.  Force cool to about 54 degrees and remove the wort
off the remaining break material and pitch with your favorite American
Lager Yeast from a starter of at least a quart of yeast slurry.
        Ferment for a week at 50 degrees then raise the temperature to 60
degrees F. for a rest for 24 hours.  Then lower the temperature to 34
degrees at the rate of three degrees F. per day and lager for 30 days. 
After 30 days I usually prime these beers with a cup of light DME for
bottling or use 3/4 cup of light DME for kegging.



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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:22:32 -0500
From: "Smith,Brian H" <bhsmith at bogmil.gylrd.com>
Subject: WHY NOT..LEMON BREW

Jason,

I tried to make a copy of Saxon breweries "Lemon Lager" a few years ago.  My
advice, be careful how much lemon you add.  Mine tasted, as one neighbor put
it,  "...like a glass full of Lemon Pledge."

Brian Smith
Big Ring Brewery and Winery
Bogalusa, La



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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:29:08 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: mash/boil oxidation

On Wed, 1 May 2002 00:25:40 -0400, Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
wrote:

>Finally, may I suggest we get rid of the acronym HSA, since so many people
>have such a strong objection to it. Let's call it MBO instead. This should
>accepting the validity of the science. "See, I knew there was no such thing
>as HSA, now this MBO thing, well... There's something that's got me lying
>awake at night..." ;-)

A rose by another name, Brian?  <grin>

Your suggestion makes good sense to me.  I think we all know by now
that HSA (hot-side aeration) is a poor choice of terms.  MBO (mash/boil
oxidation) is a much better description of the potential problem.  I
will use that term in future, with apologies to those who think this
stands for "Management by Objective". <shutter>

However, I really do not think it is merely the name (the condition
formerly known as HSA) to which people object.  It is, rather, the
relative severity of the problem that causes the disagreement.  MBO
clearly impacts some more than others, and is apparently also a major
cause of sleep disorders among homebrewers.  Some homebrewers see a
problem they want to correct while others do not understand what all
the fuss is about.

In that regard, I would also like to make two suggestions to the
readers in general:

First, if you perceive that your beer shows objectionable signs of
oxidation, then by all means you should take steps to correct that
problem, as well as any insomnia that might result.  The research
article that has been the topic of much discussion of late clearly
shows that the source of oxidation problems is the mash/boil side,
rather than (as many, including myself, previously thought) the
processing or packaging side.  Many suggestions have been made by
various individuals to help reduce the effects of MBO.

If your beer does not show these signs, then continue to do what you
are currently doing, consider yourself lucky (perhaps), and sleep
soundly.  Don't fix something that ain't broke!  Oh, but keep an eye
(ear, nose, and throat) on your beer in case this situation should
change in future.

Second, when one of the many people tells you that their beer does not
show signs of oxidation, then congratulate them rather than insisting
that this cannot be true.  Maybe they have already taken steps to
correct the problem, maybe they are just lucky, maybe they do not know
the signs for which to look, or just maybe they know something that you
do not.


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX   AR=[1093.6,223.2]
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:43:19 -0400
From: "Dennis Waltman" <PDWALTMAN at sablaw.com>
Subject: New Orleans Brews

I am going to the Elite Information Systems
 Conference in New Orleans in less than a week
 .  The conference is in the Hilton Riverside hotel.
  I'll be at the hotel without a car.  Does anyone 
have any recommendations on brewpubs/stores
 to visit in the evenings while I'm there?  What is
 the alcohol limit in Louisiana on beer?
 
I'm partial to stouts and Belgian beers, but hops
 are fine too, if that gives one any help.
 
thank you in advance,
 
 

Dennis Waltman
Elite Information Systems Specialist
Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP







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The information contained in this message from 
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is confidential and intended only for the named 
recipient(s).  If you have received this message 
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distributing or using the information.  Please 
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and delete the original message.



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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:50:23 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Cool!

I am deeply flattered by Brian's detective work! But, like Scott, I'm afraid 
I couldn't match what Pat and Karl have put into the HBD and, therefor, 
could not claim to be either one.

On another note, Klein has been a little less assinine these past couple of 
days. Hence the quietude.



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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:39:52 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My recirculation, chilling, aeration and yeast pitching method

One of the things you learn after you've read HBD for a while is who 
has better info than others.  I just want to be sure everyone 
understands I've got feet of clay and put my trousers on one leg at a 
time (trying not to get clay on the insides of the trousers).

So, first, a correction that was simply an error from trying to write 
too fast (we have English house guests for a week who are homebrewers 
and CAMRA/real ale types, so you can imagine I'm not spending as much 
time at the keyboard as usual.  Real ale and CAP  in the evenings; 
wonderful leisurely breakfasts with multiple cups of tea right up 
until I'm late starting work).

So, I wrote:

>With both ales and lagers I
>pitch at around 70F, but I reach fermentation temperature within
>minutes for ales and tens of minutes for lagers, so they aren't warm
>for long.

This really isn't quite true.  I sometimes pitch at fermentation 
temps (65-68F for ales, 48-50F for lagers), but also sometimes do as 
above, but not at as high as 70F for lagers.  More like 58F or so, 
with the yeast already at about pitching temperatures.  It takes 
perhaps 40 more minutes for the wort to reach 48-50F (those last few 
degrees are the toughest), so I am hopeful that the yeast isn't 
shocked.

Alan Meeker sent me some corrections/thoughts on some of the other 
things I misremembered (like when yeast is most active and how long a 
generation takes), and I am cc-ing him this in hopes he will post 
these.

I also need to check with A.J. DeLange to verify my memory of his 
experiment with yeast uptake of dissolved oxygen in wort.

Now, work beckons!

Jeff

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:11:07 -0400
From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com>
Subject: Deadline for Sunshine Challenge XIII entries

You still have time, but don't wait.  The deadline for entries for the
13th Annual Sunshine Challenge is Monday, May 6th.  Last year we had
almost 700 entries.

You can get the forms and shipping information at www.cfhb.org.

1st round judging will start Friday, May 10th.  We do need judges.  If
you can judge, please contact Ron Bach at bachian at juno.com

Don Lake
Orlando, Florida



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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:03:59 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: A correction, more on MBO, and (gak) respect

First, some idiot wrote:

> Finally, may I suggest we get rid of the acronym HSA, since 
> so many people have such a strong objection to it. Let's call 
> it MBO instead. This should accepting the validity of the 
> science. 

This paragraph makes a lot more sense if we use the full sentence, which
was:

This should end the semantic quibbling, and allow the nay-sayers to save
face while accepting the validity of the science.

At least, I hope it comes out in full this time.

Alastair wrote:
> 
> Ignorant?  If I am ignorant of the effects of oxidation, then 
> so are all the certified, national and grand master BJCP 
> judges who mistakenly think my beer is any good 

Curiously, I don't have a problem with this concept. It sounds to me like
there is a widely held belief that oxidation manifests itself as sherry or
cardboard. Many judges may also still be ignorant of all possible effects of
oxidation. One must also consider who got what beer of yours, and at what
stage of life it was at. The point we must keep coming back to is, time is a
factor. For many brewers, aging is not an issue, for me it is, hence my
continued interest (to the point of nauseating you all) in this topic. 
> 
> given, it becomes apparent that ignoring the potential 
> effects of HAS has no perceivable impact on the beer's 
> quality, even after several months.

I didn't include this to get into an argument (although I could providing
you pay me), just to note that you appear to be a victim of auto-correction,
too. Yet one more good reason to switch from HSA to MBO: my auto-correcting
feature doesn't change that to MOB. ;-)

BTW, for those who inquired about adding sulfites, IIRC the research Steve
quoted used a rate of about 1.5 g per 5 gallons in the boil. Personally, as
the only known brewer in all the universe who is actually doing this on a
regular basis and which therefore grants the status of Self-Proclaimed
Expert to me on the subject, I throw 2 g per 5 gallon batch size into the
mash, and since I figure I lose some of that to absorption, I am going to
start adding an additional gram or two into the kettle, where it seems to be
needed even more. I use potassium metabisulfite powder. So far, no sulfite
stink that I can detect from this treatment. 

Now, I'm seriously considering taking leave of this group. When someone like
Larry Bristol can come in here and start spewing phrases like "spirit of
mutual respect" and things of that sort, I can only feel that this forum is
on the slippery slope to civility, and that's a thought that chills me to
the bone. If I want that sort of thing, I'll hang out in the CraftBrewing
Digest, where those obnoxiously polite and pleasant Australians hold court.
Please people, remember... We're beer drinkers. As such, a certain level of
crass rudeness is expected of us by society as a whole. 

Cheers,
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 17:09:39 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jim at jimala.com>
Subject: Re: HSA Problems

Here is what 'Mr. Wizard' of Brew Your Own magazine had to say about HSA in
his June 1999 column, which pretty much mirrors my thoughts and experiences
concerning HSA.  You can read the entire column, which is published online at

http://byo.com/mrwizard/752.html 

I cite this here because I am too lazy to create my own screed, or to
paraphrase Mr. Wizard and pass it off as my own work. :)  

Mr. W. and I are of one mind about HSA, though.

"The topic of HSA can be divided into two areas: 1) aeration prior to wort
boiling and 2) aeration after wort boiling. Malt enzymes, such as
lipoxygenases and polyphenol-oxidases, that catalyze oxidation reactions
are present in the mash and wort prior to wort boiling. In my opinion, this
is where the HSA concern makes sense.
The second class of HSA is wort aeration after boiling. The only real
consequence I have seen cited about aeration after the boil is an increase
in wort color. Keep in mind that very hot wort, wort right after the boil,
does not permit much oxygen into solution and under normal brewery
conditions this probably won't cause much wort darkening. 
Anheuser-Busch (A-B) uses a device called a volatile stripper that forces
hot air over thin films of wort after wort boiling to remove undesirable
aromas such as DMS (dimethyl sulfide, which smells like cooked corn).
Although A-B has adopted the philosophy of minimizing oxygen pick-up during
mashing, mash transfer, and wort collection, the company still uses the
wort stripper to make very pale-colored beers.
Personally, I believe the body of scientific evidence surrounding HSA in
relation to mash and wort oxidation prior to boiling is believable.
Luckily, the problem is easy to control. Basically, don't splash too much
during mash-in, transfer from the mash pot to the lauter tun, and wort
collection. This seems so simple that most people don't see the big dilemma. 
Every serious homebrewer needs to visit an old brewhouse for a different
perspective. Many older mash mixers used in commercial breweries had large
baffles to aid in mixing. These baffles cause a lot of splashing,
especially if the mash agitator is moving very quickly. Next the mash was
pumped to the lauter tun. Almost every lauter tun built prior to 1970 was
filled from the top. This literally resulted in mash being dropped at a
high velocity from about five feet from the false bottom during filling -
lots of splashing! Finally the wort was typically pumped into the top of
the brew kettle, where it would cascade up to 20 feet to the kettle bottom,
resulting in yet more splashing.
Today, mash mixers are designed with special agitator blades to minimize
splashing during mash heating. Lauter tuns are filled from the bottom to
ensure a very quiet fill. Some experimental lauter tuns even operate under
a slight overpressure from carbon dioxide. New brew kettles are filled from
the bottom, and the worry about splashing has been designed out of the
modern brewhouse. Even the beautiful and traditional wort grant has been
replaced by wort collection piping systems that eliminate any exposure of
wort to oxygen during transfer from the lauter tun to the brew kettle.
After wort boiling, most breweries use whirlpool vessels to separate hops
and trub from wort, and even these vessels are constructed to minimize
splashing during filling.
As long as homebrewers exercise a little care, the likelihood of having HSA
problems is very slim. The truth is that commercial brewers are concerned
about HSA and that companies that manufacture brewhouse equipment have
responded to these concerns by changing their designs of the past. 
The confusing part for the homebrewer is that many writers who write for
homebrew publications also work in the commercial-brewing arena, and
commercial-brewing concerns frequently become homebrew concerns. "

Note especially the last paragraph.

Cheers, Jim


Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://brewery.jimala.com


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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:23:08 -0400
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com>
Subject: SoFB Entries being accepted until May 11

Blaise Pascal once said "I cannot judge my work while I am doing it. I have
to do as painters do, stand back and view it from a distance, but not too
great a distance. How great? Guess."  I think the same can be said of
brewing beer.  To be able to judge your finished beer you need to stand
back.  But how far?  The Brewer United for Real Potables (BURP) has taken
the guess work out for you.

Entries are now being accepted for the 10th Annual Spirit of Free Beer home
brew competition.  Let our BJCP judges provide you with feed-back on the
product of your work, your beer.  The comments you receive may help you
improve your beers of the future.  Let us not forget the great prizes you
can also win by entering the Spirit of Free Beer.  Here is a sample of the
prizes that will be awarded:

Brewing ingredients for a year, courtesy of Fordham Brewing Company;
Sierra Nevada Mirror, courtesy of Sierra Nevada;
Immersion Chiller, courtesy of Koch's Koncepts;
Gift Certificates, courtesy of; the Brickskeller; Brewer's Art; Bistrot
Belgique Gourmande; Jay's Brewing; Manor Fest Brewing;

Bags of grain, courtesy of Summit Station and Maryland Homebrew;
Hops and yeast, courtesy of Hop Union and White Labs;
Lots of glass wear and brew wear from various sponsors;
Plus we have many local breweries that will be brewing winning beer recipes,
along with the winners.
I could go on, but I won't.
Entries are being accepted through May 11.  For entry information, forms,
and drop off locations please go to the SoFB home page at
http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/index.html.

Thank you for making the SoFB one of the best home brew competitions in the
country.


Phil Sides, Jr.
Silver Spring, MD



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:33:47 -0500
From: "Bill Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  Cold Break Removal -  why bother?

Sebastien Riopel asks "Cold Break Removal - why bother?"
I remove about 3/4 to 1 inch of cold break from my wort by settling after
cooling with an immersion chiller.
Then I pump over to the fermenter.  My routine is to brew three beer with
the same yeast, using the yeast cake from one beer for the next.  By
removing the cold break from each beer I reduce the amount of trub that's
present in the yeast cake.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas



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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Big propane tank?

Just outside the house, next to the BrewDeck (tm), I
have a really big propane tank (75 gallons?) that the
previous owner installed to supply the gas fireplace. 
We never use the gas fireplace and I'm tired of
refilling / replacing propane tanks for my all-grain
brewing sessions...  you can see where this is
going...

Anyone have any advice on using that big tank to power
my typical propane burners (and maybe even the gas BBQ
grill)?  The propane company that fills the tank told
me "officially" that it shouldn't be done because its
dangerous, but quickly added that lots of people do
it.  

I took a look at the tank and its got copper tubing
going into the tank, and it looks like the same type
fitting as the burner hose that I screw into the
little propane tanks.  My biggest question is, can a
standard regulator handle the big propane tank or do I
need some special equipment?


Thanks,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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---