HOMEBREW Digest #3942 Thu 16 May 2002

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Siebel Week (Troy Hager)
  another Question (Fix and Fix) re: DMS (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Siebel Week (Tim McManus)
  Re: Practical Thermo question (stencil)
  Convoluted / finned copper tube source? ("Drew Avis")
  Siebel Week (Troy Hager)
  david croft extract imperial stout ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Siebel Week (Troy Hager)
  Re: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices ("Larry Bristol")
  Siebel Week (Gary Grande)
  Re: Real ale pubs in London. (Petr Otahal)
  Seibel Week ("Eric R. Lande")
  homebrewer to microbrewer (Phcsw)
  HSA debating blues ("Parker Dutro")
  Miscellaneous musings & my second batch ("Leppihalme, Miikkali")
  Ayinger Source Help ("Schneider, Brett")
  siebel week (Heather Furlong)
  HSA Essentials ("mjandrsn")
  Siebel Week: Yeast viability under pressure ("Mike Dixon")
  Siebel Week: DO levels ("Mike Dixon")
  Mind your "p"s and "q"s. ("Dan Listermann")
  Re:  Monitoring CFC outflow temp ("Dennis Collins")
  RE: Origins of Common Sayings.... (Kelly Grigg)
  RIMS question ("Charles W. Beaver")
  measuring CFC outflow temp ("the freeman's")
  Siebel Week ("Lw Hiii")
  Another CAP yeast question (Richard Seyler)
  carboy horrors.. (Himsbrew)
  Siebel Week, Post-Boil Hop Effects (Sherfey)
  hsa silliness ("Robin Griller")
  Monitoring CFC output (Sherfey)
  Siebel response: Cool pitching ("Tobias Fischborn")

* * 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002 * Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm * * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:07:16 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Siebel Week Thank you in advance for this opportunity! My question stems from posts by George Fix last year about a "steady temperature increase" mashing procedure that he used to make many of his award winning beers in the last few years of his life. This procedure entails doughing in the grain at around 100F for 30 minutes and then steadily raising the temperature at a rate of about 1 degree F / minute to mash out temps of 168F or so. The direct quote from his post (from file:3628 Date:Tue, 08 May 2001): "The steady temperature increase mashing procedure described for us by the folks at AB during MCAB II last year does indeed work on the homebrew level, even with Budvar malt. Decoction is always the safest recommendation for such malts, but my experience indicates that the AB procedure is a viable alternative." I just brewed an export to his recipe using the Budvar undermodified malt and this mashing regime. With the 34/70 lager strain this beer dropped nicely with a AA of 76%. It is lagering now and seems to be excellent - well attenuated yet full bodied. Questions: 1. Is this a widely used mashing method? Does Anheuser-Busch (sp?) use this schedule has Fix infers? 2. Obviously this method works well for this malt (his many awards seem to be proof of that), but what about other malt? For example, what would I expect with a more highly modified German Pils malt or American 2-row? Thanks! Troy Hager Technology Specialist Crocker Middle School Hillsborough, CA 94010 650-548-4242 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:14:42 -0400 From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu Subject: another Question (Fix and Fix) re: DMS Thankyou to those who answered the malt question. This forum is a great resourse for brewers! Fix and Fix, pp 49-51 describe DMS (dimethyl sulfide) ....they report on different levels of DMS in ales and lagers (more in lagers) as well as the role of SMM (s-methyl methionine) as a precursor.. They report on the higher amount of SMM in lager malts, compared to pale ale malts,... ok here is the question: does pilsner malt typically have a higher level of SMM than pale malt also?.....and if so, should one, in general, avoid the use of lager and pilsner malts in the production of ales? ..Darrell [545.7, 72.3 Apparent Rennerian] Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:07:52 -0400 From: Tim McManus <tmm4264 at galaxy.net> Subject: Siebel Week Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. Can you describe the proper "care and feeding" of an American Oak cask? I would like to understand how to prepare the cask as a secondary fermentation vessel for high gravity beers, how to prevent infection in the secondary during a 3-4 month aging process, and how to store the cask in between brewing cycles. The motivation behind the first question is due to a failed stout batch I recently used on my lawn. I prepared the cask according to Acton and Duncan's procedure for breaking in an oak barrel from the book "Progressive Winemaking". I left the cask in my basement for approximately 10 weeks. When I opened the cask there was an aqua-blue leather-like surface on the liquid. Some microorganisms had a field day growing in there. Needless to say, I was a bit distraught. I want to prevent this in the future. Thanks! More may follow. -Tim McManus Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:51:12 -0400 From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net> Subject: Re: Practical Thermo question On Tue, 14 May 2002 10:28:30 -0400, Jeff wrote: >stencil <stencil at bcn.net> writes: >>I want to cool a kegful of beer [ ... ] > > >The is sufficient thermal mass in five gallons of beer that I think >you could drop the temperature of a fridge 5 deg. F per day without a >problem and the beer temperature would lag a bit behind that. This >is more or less what I do. > >Jeff I agree fully and would go that route if I could; but my 35F chill box is shared by numerous things that I perceive as not wanting to run back up to 50F just to take aboard a new passenger. Similarly, the cool locker, an insulated space under a workbench up against a below- grade north wall, is not adjustable. The specific 1- degree- a- day figure was pulled out of, um, the air and is subject to revision. gds, stencil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:47:36 -0400 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Convoluted / finned copper tube source? Brewers & gadgeteers: is anyone aware of a source for the "convoluted" copper tube used in the high-efficiency CFCs (such as the PBS (RIP) MaxiChiller, and the St. Pat's chiller)? A Canadian source would be especially useful. A search through the HBD archives reveals one post about this in 1999, but the source has no web site. It's a real head-scratcher, as there are all kinds of heat exchangers out there that use this tubing (Edwards Engineering, Packless, etc), but I can't find anyone retailing this stuff. I suspect I'm using the wrong search terms. I'd like to use some to build an efficient HERMS coil / immersion chiller. Cheers! Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It's a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:55:09 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Siebel Week Thanks in advance for doing this! My question is about yeast viability and pitching amounts. Much has been discussed about these issues and it is well known that most commercial breweries maintain viability of 95% or more in the yeast that they pitch as well as pitching the correct volumes. With lots of very fresh yeast available and fully equipped labs it is not a big deal to test for and maintain such standards. At the homebrew level it is a bit more trouble. Many discussions on the HBD as well as in many books and studies have stated that pitching less that 90% viable yeast will be detrimental to the finished product. Specifically George Fix in his books have stated that to him and his experience pitching a large amount of healthy yeast is the number one factor in making high quality beer. Questions: 1. How important is viability? For example if I pitched twice the volume I needed for my 5 gal batch, let's say 10 oz. of yeast slurry, but it was only 50% viable, could I expect to produce a high quality beer from this? I guess another way to state it is - How do dead yeast cells effect beer quality? 2. Let's say that I have the same 10 oz. 50% viable yeast slurry but I step it up with a 1 gal starter. Now I have increased the viability percentage but still have a lot of dead yeast cells in the mix. Would they have an effect on the finished product? Would it be advisable to wash this slurry to remove most of the dead cells before stepping it up? 3. Is lag time, assuming sanitization procedures are very good, a good indicator of the health of the yeast? 4. Finally, as a homebrewer without a hemacytometer to count yeast - I would like to get a general idea of the viability of a sample. I follow standard procedures for diluting and staining with methelyne blue but just use a slide and cover plate viewing at 400X. If I see less than 1 out of every 10 cells that stain blue - I should be in the ballpark of >90% viable cells correct? Again, thanks for your time! Troy Hager Technology Specialist Crocker Middle School Hillsborough, CA 94010 650-548-4242 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:13:51 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: david croft extract imperial stout David asks about his extract plus grains imperial stout. You can substitute dark for light just like you did if you have the dark around and want to use it. Using light just allows you to better control the levels of chocolate, roasted, etc that you taste. As you said, the dark generally has some black patent, roasted barley, and chocolate malts in it when manufactured. This info is generally not too easy to obtain especially in terms of % in the extract. The 9 lbs total looks a bit lightweight for my impression of imperial stout but thats just me. I'd also skip the Victory unless unless you're minimashing. The dark crystal can also be quite strong especially at the higher levels. Perhaps consider more hops or perhaps lighter crystal to help balance (or a mixture of crystal colors). In fact, some of the commercial imperial stout makers even recommend no crystal due to the high malt flavor you're likely have anyways. have fun with it. I just tapped my imperial stout that I brewed January 2001 and kegged March 2001. Not an extract batch, but I have done an extract batch a ways back using the Wyeast irish stout yeast. Pete Czerpak Albany, NY PS. Just tried a bottled Fuller Golden Pride (barleywine - 8.5% ABV) last night. The same intense caramel flavor present in Fullers ESB is there as well. Good beer and a bit more hops (more balanced then) than than the "normal" englishstyle barleywines I've tasted. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:21:37 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Siebel Week This question is about hot break. I have been brewing all grain for about 5-6 years and have done mostly single infusion batches. My water is very soft and I usually add a few grams of CaCl2 to treat my brewing liquor. Most of my beers have been ales made with either domestic 2-row or English pale ale malt. I have read about the importance of a good hot break and in the past have seen smallish particles of break material form in the first few minutes of the boil. These particles have been pretty small - no more than 1/16" and usually less. I have tried a variety of boiling procedures anywhere from a very high violent roll (evaporation rates near 20%/hour) to a covered low roll (evaporation rate closer to 8%/hour) but have not noticed much difference in the amount or size of the break material in the wort. I have started to brew lagers with more frequency and have purchased some of the Budvar undermodified Czech malt. Recently I used it for the first time in a Dortmunder Export using G. Fix's recipe. This recipe calls for a dough-in at 104F for 30 minutes and then a steady rise at 1 degree F / minute to mash out at 168F. When I started the boil I immediately noticed these HUGE corn-flake sized particles that formed at the beginning of the boil - I couldn't figure out what they were at first but quickly realized that they indeed were mammoth sized hot break. I had never seen anything like it! I have read about egg-soup sized hot break and this is exactly what it looked like. At the end of the boil I chilled it down to about 50F - and got a great cold break as well. After pumping to my fermenter I examined the break material and it was quite impressive in volume with large lightly colored clumps of particulate matter left behind. My questions: 1. Does the amount of rolling action of the boil (higher temperatures) have anything to do with the production of break material as many HB books tend to say? For example, general HB advice is that you must boil hard to get a good hot break. In my experience this does not seem true - my hot break usually occurs right at the beginning of the boil. I have actually talked to professional brewers that have said, "Boil the hell out of it!" Other sources say a boil of about 7-10%/hour evaporation rate is optimum and there is a balance between DMS reduction/break formation and thermal loading/excessive Maillard reactions. How does all this affect the quality of the break in the boil? 2. Why the big difference from what I have seen in the past to what I saw with this batch? 3. Was it the cause of the undermodified malt or the mashing regime? 4. If I had used German Pils or American 2-row with this same mash procedure would I see the same type of break? 5. Finally, it seems logical that since break material is the coagulation and therefore separation of tannin and phenolic materials (among other things) in and from the wort... that more break and larger particles of break material equals better beer... Is this a true statement? Thank you for your time! Troy Hager Technology Specialist Crocker Middle School Hillsborough, CA 94010 650-548-4242 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:43:36 -0500 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices On Tue, 14 May 2002 10:02:12 -0400, Jeff Renner wrote: >Actually, none of these "origins" holds up to scrutiny. I used the >Oxford English Dictionary (O.E.D.) and other sources. Jeff, you ignorant slut! I am not surprised that <YOU> would be confused by such a dubious source, although I am more concerned about the efforts of an infinite number of monkeys that have appeared at my door trying to sell me an original manuscript about some Danish King. These are not matters that can be scrutinized so easily. They are solid facts that have been obtained by trained researchers working for the Discovery Channel, hermetically sealed, and stored in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnal's front porch since noon yesterday. What is more, they were stored there at 40C! So as you can plainly see, they are not some collection of half-baked opinions issued by a group of academic linguists (none of which are cunning to even the slightest degree) that, if they had the slightest hint of ability, would be out in the business world making money instead of pandering to some professor who spends his nights as a voyeur in a East End bordello attempting to create the world's largest collection of smegma. >OOPS, sorry, I thought I was someone else. Hmmm... Must be contagious. >>The whole nine yards >See http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/nineyards.htm and >http://www.uselessknowledge.com/word/yards.shtml for discussions of >this phrase. I'd heard it explained as the capacity of a cement >truck. Interestingly, the O.E.D. finds the first reference in print >to be 1970, surprisingly late. Here is an anecdotal data point. My father-in-law was a tail gunner on a Mitchell bomber in the Pacific during WWII. On one occasion I can remember, in spinning one of his tales, he used that phrase in the specific context of emptying his gun at an enemy plane. Certainly no proof of anything, but I would be willing to wager that the term came into use before 1970. >>Free sheets to the wind ... "Three [sic] sheets to the wind" is an >>often used (meaningless?) variation. >Again, OED makes no mention of this putative original phrase, only >mentioning under sheet (sail): Interesting, as this is the one about which I was most certain. Circa 1970, I used the "three sheets to the wind" phrase in a conversation and was soundly corrected by an individual whose opinion on such matters I respected. I find it strange that I cannot now quickly locate any reference to what I have always "known" to be the correct expression. I will, as time is available, continue to search. >Well. Larry, I hope I have convinced you and that you are not going >to continue to dwell in the land of ignorance! I have never even been to Michigan! Larry Bristol Bellville, TX AR=[1093.6,223.2] http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:40:28 -0500 From: Gary Grande <ggrande at execpc.com> Subject: Siebel Week Question: I was discussing how I mash (in a Rubbermaid cooler) with a coworker and she expressed concern about what sort of compounds could be leeched into the final beer from the plastic of the mash tun. According to her, even those plastics that claim to be "safe" for heating can still contribute harmful elements. The harmful element may have been some sort of estrogen, but was definitely something that could cause/contribute to the formation of cancerous cells. Any ideas? I received no replies when I originally posted this to the HBD. Thanks! -Aaron Aaron, I recommend you direct this question directly to the Rubbermaid manufacturer. The walls of a cooler are intended to sustain liquids at relatively cool temperatures. As far as I know, the interior surfaces are not formulated for direct contact with hot slurries. Chemical reaction is a concern, as well as surface erosion. It may be an acceptable vessel, but only the people who know exactly what is in it can say so with confidence. Gary Grande Siebel Staff Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:26:30 +1000 From: Petr Otahal <potahal at utas.edu.au> Subject: Re: Real ale pubs in London. G'day Wally, I was in Brugge and London in September last year. I can recommend these places: In London I really enjoyed The White Horse, which is in Parsons Green. You can catch the tube to the Parsons Green tube station and walk a few hundred meters and be there (sorry cant remember the street name but turn right when you leave the tube station and you should get there). This pub had many real ales on tap, I wasn't able to taste them all (unfortunately) but the ones I did taste were well kept. In Brugge I visited 't Brugs Beertje a beer cafe at 5 Kemel Straat in Simon Stevin Plein, needless to say you can taste quite a number of beers there (they have several hundred to choose from). It was quite a cosy little place, always full with a lively atmosphere. Also did a tour of the Halve Maan (Half Moon) brew pub and tasted their only beer, Straffe Hendrik (Strong Henry) which was very good (deceptive in its strength) and our tour guide had quite a good sense of humour. I made good use of Michael Jackson's Pocket Beer Book during my travels in Europe. Half fun touring and tasting Cheers Petr >Hello collective, > >I'm on my way to London, Paris, and Belgium in June and I'd like to >experience the unique beer/brewery scene in each. While stays in London >and Paris are rock solid, I'll either be in Brugge or in Brussels in >Belgium. > Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:31:27 -0400 From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Seibel Week Thanks for this opportunity and maybe I can get a straight answer on this: My question is about First Wort Hopping. This sounds like a good idea, but questions keep popping up that make me hesitant to try it. I've read that when doing FWH that you should add 1/3 of your hop bill to the kettle as you are laudering. Is this the bittering, flavoring or aroma hops or some combination? If it is the aroma hops, do I need to add more at the end of the boil to account for the loss of the volatile oils during the boil? If it is all three, should the total hopping rate be reduced to account for the increased bitterness extracted from the greater amount of hops boiled for the full boil? Any other info that could put my mind at ease about FWH would be appreciated. Also, is FWH a superior concept or is it just something different that is on a par with the more common hopping schedule? Thanks in advance. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:35:07 EDT From: Phcsw at aol.com Subject: homebrewer to microbrewer I've invested in re-opening a local 7 BBL brewpub. It closed 9/01 due to poor service. The brewer is gone, so now I'm seriously wanting to be the brewer. I know it's much more than what I'm used to, but I'm not working and this would be an exciting new career for me. I've homebrewed (all-grain) for 12 years. Any tips, guidance, lessons learned would be appreciated. The former brewer said he'd share his recipes/notes with me. And I have the opprtunity to train with a succesfull brewer before we open... Am I crazy? I believe I can produce quality beers because I have the desire and the knowledge of what they taste/look like. Thanks for all advice. Roger Dellinger AHA & IBS Member Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:36:31 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: HSA debating blues So I have spent a good amount of these twilight hours reading the extensive posting regarding HSA. Opinions and passionate arguments disguised as civilized Q&A. Impressed by the logical thought exercised by all slants of the "discussion", I am reluctant to make the following statement: I speak only for myself, perhaps for a handful of others, when I say that I'm bored and tired of reading the same re-worded argument over and over. I suppose I could scroll through the HSA posts, but then I feel I would be neglecting my education ;) But seriously, the repetitiveness has become a little ridiculous, and I'm now in the habit of mentally flagging the HSA posts and skipping right over them. Guys are more than free to have their own personal debates, definitely. I hope I don't come across as nagging or uppity, I could really care less about how people handle themselves on a discussion board (within reason). I am only hoping to draw attention to the matter and perhaps hasten a conclusion to the arguing. That said, everybody have a good night, take it slow, and thanks to everyone who participates in the discussions here. I have learned quite a bit from all the "arguing" that goes on. Parker Dutro Portland Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:11:43 +0300 From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme at quartal.com> Subject: Miscellaneous musings & my second batch Phil agonizes over his wheat beer's success: > What should I do Steve? Kill Jill or run away from > home (and take my garage with me)? I'm not Steve nor do I pretend to be him on television, but here's my advice anyway: - option 1: Build another garage and another brewery in it. Teach Jill to brew her own wheat beer. Experiment in your own garage brewery while Jill brews wheat in the other. - option 2: Brew a HUGE batch of Jill's favorite wheat beer. Do your own experiments before she manages to drink all the wheat and starts to ask for more. Jeff 'Punster' Renner experiences a hazy moment: > At the risk of mentioning the "O" word, this can also > remove some oxidized polyphenolics that can contribute > to haze, but I'm not entirely clear on that (a pun for > Mii). If you're still not entirely clear on that, you should lager yourself at 32 F (0 C) for 4-6 weeks. Cool, huh? Larry Bristol marveled: > For all we know, there may be witches living in our beer. For all I know, there ARE witches living in my beer. Why would I even want to brew a witchless beer? To drag this back to HBD's main topic, my father gave me another fermenting bucket and I decided to brew another ale at the same time as the first one is brewing. I bought Glen Brew's Bitter Ale extract and used Wyeast London Ale liquid yeast, which was quite fresh (dated Feb 2002). I incubated the yeast for three days, but didn't have the patience to make a starter. I just opened the swollen bag and poured the contents in the fermenter. This time I took even more consideration on sanitation and aerating the wort than with the first batch. The airlock started bubbling after 24 hours. Yeah! Through the semi-transparent plastic fermenter I can see a layer of yeast about two inches thick in the bottom of the bucket. Seems like the yeast is doing fine and multiplying. Back to witchcraft and mythology: I decided to name this second batch "Nix Bitter". A "nix" is a mischievous water spirit in German mythology. I live in a house between two lakes. There's a strait named "Devil's Strait" between the two lakes. So I figured a name related to water and a demon would be only appropriate. (The black ale is going to be named "Shite Black".) - Miikkali Lohja, Finland "If we eliminate the psychotics, where is the future of the arts?" - Jim Baker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 07:27:02 -0400 From: "Schneider, Brett" <Brett_Schneider at bose.com> Subject: Ayinger Source Help Recent talk about CAPs has turned the light on in the yeast bank - my last attempt with the Ayinger I had saved away was problematic and now I have none. Anyone out there willing to be my source for a slant of Ayinger and possibly be willing to mail me one? I'm just west of Boston. Direct contact email appreciated. Thanks - Brett Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 04:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Furlong <sphex74 at yahoo.com> Subject: siebel week Dear Dr.Wardrop or Dr.Fischborn, I have a culture of Lactobaccilus deb. that I would like to grow on a slant and plate for further use. What is the optimal ph which I need to make the agar and what should I use as a buffering agent? I have tried to look this up on the web and only found out that the ph should be somewhere between 6.1-6.9, also is there anything else I should know in keeping an ongoing culture of this? My second question is should I pitch the Lactobacillus before the yeast or after, will the ph of the wort be troublesome for the yeast if the bacteria is given a head start? Thank you Richard Furlong sphex74 at yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 05:26:53 -0800 From: "mjandrsn" <mjandrsn at w-link.net> Subject: HSA Essentials If the gentlemen debating the finer points of HSA would limit themselves to their insults, we wouldn't have to wade through all those tedious details for the choice bits. The debate is futile: One insists on being right, the other just wants to be happy. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:41:41 -0400 From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net> Subject: Siebel Week: Yeast viability under pressure After many discussions about yeast viability as pressure increases with fellow brewers, and having tried a single rudimentary experiment to find the pressure at which fermentation stalls or stops, I wondered what the real answers would be. At what average pressure (psi), if any, is yeast activity during fermentation basically stopped or stalled? Does that pressure vary with different yeast strains and different strengths of wort? If that pressure was set on a vessel at the onset of fermentation, would the wort not ferment? Thank you very much for this opportunity. Cheers, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:55:16 -0400 From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net> Subject: Siebel Week: DO levels I have a question regarding the DO (dissolved oxygen) levels in wort after aeration/oxygenation and pitching. In a properly aerated/oxygenated wort, adequately pitched for the strength of the brew, at what point is the DO level essentially zero or unmeasurable? Cheers, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:21:07 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Mind your "p"s and "q"s. I have always thought that this expression originated in the printing world. Lower case "p" and "q" could easily get mixed up considering that they would appear backwards on the face of removable type. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:27:25 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Monitoring CFC outflow temp Darren, I also use a counterflow chiller and have used the following method to measure the temp of the exiting wort. I attach a plastic hose to the outlet of the chiller to carry the wort into the carboy (and so does everybody else). Right where the hose bends downward into the neck of the carboy I have drilled a small hole that is just a little smaller than the probe on my bi-metal thermometer. I then insert the thermometer probe into this hole. The hole being slightly smaller than the probe creates a seal and the exiting wort flows over the probe which gives the exiting wort temperature. I have a picture at: http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/CounterFlowWortChiller.html Hope this helps, Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:47:50 -0500 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: RE: Origins of Common Sayings.... Hehehe...I don't know...but, it sure works.... I've learned that from living in New Orleans.... :-) Just finished doing my 2nd batch of all grain...was happy to see it bubbling away in less than 10 hours after pitching yeast!! Kelly > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:24:02 -0600 > From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com> > Subject: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices > > These are really good, Larry. Definitely worth forwarding on to others. > > I always wondered where the expression "Hair of the dog that bit you" came > from when associated with having a beer (or whatever) the morning following > a little binge drinking. Anyone know where this one originates? - ------------------ "Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." - ------------------ - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQENAjyfn4YAAAEH+waMyqOmkhFrbfJqfg4A68a9HuqtQ+Z4djHRRRb59udOrPi4 JvQiwiDILQ11f3Akz+C7x5/0uHc5Bgdgd7CDBYLCEis+404vHH2fXRFgdqyO8bin pVE2qh511umyZ8Rka5NQdNIspBKy7rpZ+zd8qKM2OAHsRkzhfAaRfMn20ZzqEpa3 zvN62QLHYSjOdhqq1sJo5pS9Vff0/fglcTSyUEWctsrLRqp+IBxn0deA4zKHR7eA uSpSyyyV0KwsE4fIJQQG5ji59trSSPOFkS+j6ITrcpiDT7rJfK8z+sYQUovC5/2u WrwCHAEIQa1QZEkGTJ5gE75qt5T8HxQEh634t+EABRG0C0tlbGx5IEdyaWdniQEU AgUQPJ+fhh8UBIet+LfhAQGqAAf1Gn9P49yPKjhClsOHoW1JWi9gNTfNwx+ROL3R 61pfMlPrb4Q5UN7lYkR7mip0R9CYk5Se8POOxTVAc2KGzQB/xmuYcDPmxuNK4BQ/ vN7PSkrVmoU5kC8KKMOmx0msJWYqo4k6AONtCYP8jHEqgcaBnqE89arVL4/2cAPf rfyzsdJBFZK4ww5bh2iMVSzrgs1H48I4l8TKX6vlg98n7fr8W/T3tgC22M+9O4u+ lR0yozce862Lx+b8+tw3w6OvxBQfhQXTbLHSQWE9ueSAofQQsichSsGxpCB/0c7s Hw9CzQAQvyS7PLvPBOz63Qyea5h93YJuAzDijk9smvlvxVI0 =8qS0 - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:56:46 -0500 From: "Charles W. Beaver" <cbeav at netnitco.net> Subject: RIMS question With the recent resurgence in the RIMS thread, I decided to automate my RIMS system. I had been running a manual RIMS meaning that I was recirculating, but would kick on the burner periodically to apply a little heat to maintain mash temp. I already had the controller and just needed to add the heater. I used a 4500 W (wired to 110v) heater in line and found that even with full time hearing the temp drifted down. I am mashing 28 lb of grain in 7.7 gall of water. Questions - How can I tell if I need more heater power or greater flow. I estimate that I am pumping about 2 liters / minute. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:07:22 -0500 From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net> Subject: measuring CFC outflow temp Darren asks about how to measure the outflow temp from his counterflow chiller. I added an analog thermometer to the outflow side of my chiller on "the perfesser". Please see the attached pic. The probe for the thermometer is placed in the outflow wort stream. http://www.mirageport.com/potsus/brew%20gear/chiller.jpg By throttling either the outflow from the boiler or the cold water input to the chiller, the temp can be regulated quite precisely. Hope this helps. Bill Freeman aka elder rat K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser" Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:10:14 -0500 From: "Lw Hiii" <feedfwd at hotmail.com> Subject: Siebel Week There have been recent discussions of the value/toxicity of micronutrients like zinc and copper. Is there any guideline or published data for maximum and minimum limits or optimum targets for any number of minerals or micronutrients? For the past year or so, I seem to be seeing more fines packing into a thick cake (tieg?) on the top of my lauter than before. I have started "raking" the top inch or 2 of my lauter with a butter knife in more or less a tic-tac-toe pattern once every few minutes or so to improve permeability. Nothing I an aware of has changed. I use the same process, step infusion in a gott cooler, same grains (or at least same supplier), same mill. So I wonder if malting changes are contributing to this or if I am an anomoly. Also, is there a better way to rake the grain? Thanks Jethro for making this happen and thanks Siebel and others for your contributions to making our brewing better! Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Seyler <seyler at arches.uga.edu> Subject: Another CAP yeast question I have been listening to Jeff R. describe CAPs for years now, and will finally make one in my next batch. The yeast that I use is whatever my local brewpub has at the time. The two lager yeasts that I have to choose from are a California Common (CC), within the next week, or a Czech pilsner yeast, available in a few weeks. My first question is whether one of these yeasts would be largely preferable to the other for a CAP. Since I would like to do a CC in the near future, I am tempted to use the steam yeast but wonder: Though 2112 can be used at higher ferment temps, is it vigorous enough to work at lower, normal lager temps? Also, my intention is to brew the CC directly after the primary ferment of the CAP and rack the wort directly onto the sediment of the CAP primary. As these two styles are in the same gravity ballpark, is there any wisdom in brewing one or the other batches first? That is, would it be better to use CAP dregs to start a CC, or use CC dregs to start the CAP, or no difference? Thanks, Tad in Athens, GA [576.9, 177.4] App.Ren. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:53:22 -0400 From: Himsbrew at aol.com Subject: carboy horrors.. Just another horror story from one of the"it won't happen to me crowd".. I was emptying a carboy of sanitizer over my plastic utility sink, in preperation of racking my Rye Pale Ale (thanks to whoever it was who posted that recipe!!) well as you can guess, the wet carboy slipped from my hands. As my mind raced, I watched the carboy torpedo right thru the bottom of my utility sink, and connect with the cement floor underneith with obvious results.. To add insult to injury, I had a dozen bottles of schwartz bier happily carbonating in that side of the sink,(it didn't place in the national competition anyway :-( ),they followed the carboy to it's early demise.. I promise, next time I will be wearing shoes!! jim cuny green bay wi.. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:19:44 -0400 From: Sherfey <sherf at warwick.net> Subject: Siebel Week, Post-Boil Hop Effects In homebrew systems using a post-boil counterflow chiller for cooling, the wort sits for quite awhile at hot temperatures, possibly 30-45 min. or even longer. Immersion chiller systems cool the wort in bulk and reduce the kettle temperature much quicker, but there is still some time that the wort sits at elevated temperatures, depending on the elegance of the system and the efficiency of the brewer at that point in the process. I would like to know what effect this "hop rest" of 5 minutes or longer has on the bitterness and hop flavor that survives fermentation, and in particular the effect on late hop additions from 15 min. remaining boil time through knock-out additions. How would the resulting bitterness be factored into the IBI formula? Please compare the (effects) difference between rolling-boiled hops and hot-soaked hops. Thanks so much for your time in answering our questions this week! David Sherfey Warwick, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:03:05 -0400 From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net> Subject: hsa silliness Hi all, In an effort to lighten things up and given that no one else seems to have noticed how silly some of the claims re hsa have been, I'll quote something the esteemed Steve A. said a couple of weeks ago: "You've never had an ale pick up sweet caramel notes, never had a beer lose IBUs over time," Can you imagine a group of homebrewers in a london pub having pints of Fuller's esb? All are marvelling at its lovely taste, including caramel notes, while Steve fumes: 'See the caramel flavours shows Fuller's have an hsa problem!' I'm thinking that the guy here who has been trying for ages to get that Fuller's flavour, should be hsa-ing the heck out of his beer and artificially aging it to get what he's after! Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:03:27 -0400 From: Sherfey <sherf at warwick.net> Subject: Monitoring CFC output I use the method mentioned by George DePiro a year or two ago and highly recommend it. Very simple. Just stick the probe of a small quick-read dial thermometer into the outflow line and read away. The plastic seals around the probe nicely and will only leak if there is pressure caused by (Doh!) closing the flow below the probe while a full throttle kettle spigot is open above. Hope this helps... David Sherfey Warwick, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:21:41 +0000 From: "Tobias Fischborn" <fischborn at hotmail.com> Subject: Siebel response: Cool pitching Jeff asked..... Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:36:50 -0400 From: Jeff Renner Subject: Siebel Week Thanks, Rob, for arranging this again this year. A question about pitching lager yeast. Is it better to pitch at fermentation temperatures (9-12C) or at warmer temperatures, say 20C, and then chill? What are the ramifications of each, and in the case of the latter, if it is a possibility, when should you chill to avoid off flavors? Jeff On similar theme...... Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:01:22 -0500 From: "Betty and Mike Kilian" Subject: Seibel Week I there a preferred method for introducing yeast into the cooled wort? Is it preferable to pitch the whole mass into the fermentor or introduce it slowly inline? If it is introduced inline, would the process work better closer or further downline from the fermentor? Thanks for this great opportunity! Mike Kilian Forbes: I think anything that avoids over-stressing the yeast is probably best. When we do lager fermentations we normally pitch the yeast into room temp wort then start cooling the wort to 10C. This allows a better attemperation of the yeast/wort rather than throwing it in at 10C and let it get on with it. I have no real data to back up the off flavour part but lag phase is normally shorter when the yeast/wort is cooled together rather than yeast pitched into cool wort. If the wort is already cooled then slowly inline might be a good alternative. Under good conditions we have removed some of the cool wort and added it slowly to the yeast before then pitching the yeast into the wort. Of course if your yeast is coming from the fridge then introducing it to the cold wort should be much simpler. Tobias: In addition to Forbes........ In my opinion the best way to pitch lager yeast is to pitch at cold temperatures. That means the yeast should be adapted to cold temperatures previous to pitching to avoid stress. The temperature difference should be not greater than 10C. In the ideal case the yeast has the same temperature as the wort. If you are using crop yeast, it is already refrigerated during storage or if you repitch direct the yeast is at fermentation/lagering temperature. If you propagate your own yeast, it would be best to cool the yeast down to fermentation temperature one day before pitching. Dry Yeast is an exception. It is recommended to rehydrate the yeast at higher temperatures and pitch it soon after rehydration. So in this case the yeast has to be used at higher temperatures. The first option is to pitch the yeast into the wort and cool both down to fermentation temperature. This has to be done carefully and gradually to avoid to stress/shock the yeast. This might not always be possible depending on your cooling equipment. The second option is to use wort already at fermentation temperature to gradually cool down the yeast. This should be done in steps no greater than 10C. The advantage of pitching cold is that it is easier to handle and less risky. A good lager yeast pitched at cold temperature should start fermenting after 12-18 hours. If you cool your yeast with the wort there is a chance that you do it too fast, which results in long lag-phase, or you do it too slow, which can result in undesirable flavours. When to start cooling, if you pitch at high temperatures? As soon as possible but gradually. To introduce the yeast slowly inline is resulting in a better mixing of wort and yeast than just dumping the yeast into the fermenter. A common practice with fermenters that hold more than one brew is to introduce the whole amount of yeast inline with the first brew and than add the following brews (drauflassen). The inline introduction of the yeast can be done close to the fermenter. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 05/16/02, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96