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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Monitoring CFC outflow temp?? (Darren Miller)
  buffer solutions; grain absorption rates; immobilized yeast (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Real ale pubs in London. (Walter J Doherty)
  Re: MY INHERITANCE (John Bowerman)
  Making Beer For Test Purposes ("Phil Yates")
  Grain Absorption Rate (Jeffrey Donovan)
  cloudy CAP (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Question: 2 gallon batch in 5 gallon carboy? (Jeff Renner)
  Russian Stout ("Andrew Moore")
  Re: still Re: was HSA ("Larry Bristol")
  Re: MY INHERITANCE (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Siebel Week: Sugar Fermentabilities ("Mike Dixon")
  Re: MY INHERITANCE ("Nathan Rollins")
  SoCal Beverage Stores? (Steven S)
  Classic Ammerican Beers ("John Adsit")
  Siebel Week (brewingbeer)
  Re: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Practical Thermo question (Jeff Renner)
  keg cooling while camping ("Ronnie Anderson")
  Nationa Homebrewers Conference ("Monica Tall")
  National Homebrewers Conference ("Monica Tall")
  Origin of Common Expressions and Practices ("Mike Racette")
  Re: electrical element cover (Martin_Brungard)
  Whole nine yards... ("Schrempp, Michael")
  Re: Classic American Pils & CAP yeast (Jeff Renner)
  trip from Milwaukee, WI to Yellowstone ("Jeremy Lenzendorf")


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:10:29 +0930
From: Darren Miller <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Monitoring CFC outflow temp??

Howdy,
I have just brewed my first batch using a counterflow chiller. My
question is..What is the best way to monitor the output temperature of
the wort? I thought I was doing well with my last batch but found I
actually pitched onto a yeast cake at about 24 degree C. Lucky, I guess,
it was a Belgian Ale.
I am really dreading over or undershooting the temps for my next lager.
Any help would be appreciated.
cheers
Darren


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:48:01 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: buffer solutions; grain absorption rates; immobilized yeast 

Hi,

William Graham <goldencity1 at attbi.com> asked about pH meter buffer solution.

On my website I made a page about pH (partly translated from the English
site)
http://virtual.yosemite.cc.ca.us/lmaki/Chem150/Chapters/Acid_base/acid_base.
htm
The tables are from Tabellenboekje ten dienste van laboratoria (1962).
(Tables for laboratory use).
It is in metric and in Dutch language, but maybe useful (I agree with A.J.
"It is much, much easier to buy buffers").

http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/inhoudsopgavehhbier.htm  look under chemie for
http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/chemieenpH.htm

Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu> asked about Grain Absorption Rates.
What I found for my 90 all grain brews in the last years, was about 1-1,2
liter water per kg malt (0.2641 - 0.317 gal for 2.2046 lb malt). What I did
was determine the weight of all the spent grains (my brews are not that big)
and drying a small sample (approx. 7 %)at 120 degr.C = 248 degr.F. I also
use the results for determine the extraction rate (usually 73-78 %).

I have also one question: does anybody knows a brewery which uses the
technology of immobilized yeast for fermentation?

Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema
http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/ik.html




This message, including attachments, is confidential and may be privileged.
If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete
and destroy the original message and all copies. You should not copy,
forward and/or disclose this message, in whole or in part, without
permission of the sender.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:01:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Real ale pubs in London.

Hello collective,

I'm on my way to London, Paris, and Belgium in June and I'd like to
experience the unique beer/brewery scene in each.  While stays in London
and Paris are rock solid, I'll either be in Brugge or in Brussels in
Belgium.

For London, in which pubs can I get a pint of a real cask-conditioned ale
sent up from the basement by hand-operated beer engine?  I want the real
deal that I've heard about, here!

For Paris, I'm more interested in finding a small, local winery or unique
brewery.

In Belgium, well, I think everybody knows why beer lovers go the Belgium.
Where are the best small, interesting breweries in the Brussels or coastal
areas?

Thanks in advance for the help,

Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:19:15 -0700
From: John Bowerman <bowerman at cvc.net>
Subject: Re: MY INHERITANCE

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

This has scam written all over it.  It sounds a lot like another
come-on/scam that came out of Angola (gee, do ya think ... naaaa) a
couple of years ago -- you would get a sizable reward if you helped
recover the stolen national treasury -- it was fronted by an Angolan
Bank.

Do not kid yourself, this is a come-on, a con, a scam, a flim flam, a
rip off, etc.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:45:28 +1000
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Making Beer For Test Purposes

I thought Steve and Larry had sorted their differences out and I noted that
Larry went so far as saying he was saying the same thing as Steve. But Steve
says he wasn't saying the same thing at all. Larry should learn not to get
himself involved pretending to say the same as Steve and assuming he knows
anything about HSA - Heated Steve Attitude. Sorry Steve, I'm not suggesting
Larry said the same as you and as soon as I locate his address, I'm going to
go around and sock him one with an experimental beer, right on his silly
noggin!!

But Steve did say:
>All of my beers
>are experimental - or so my friends joke

And Steve also said:
>How can any
>kid-at-heart keep from exploring all the control variables.

Well Steve, let me tell you a story. I started out brewing with a great
sense of adventure. I saw the potential for endless experiments and
variation. I also wanted to convince my wife I was the best beer maker in
the world, well sort of. I didn't want to be yelled at for spending all my
time in the garage muckin about with my hobby. So I made her the perfect
beer, a little wheat number. Now I can't make anything else! No variations,
no experiments, no half degree deviations in ferment temps. I gotta keep
making her this beer exactly the same or I'm in real deep sh_t!! I'd love to
make something different, you know, muck around with the controls and
variables as you suggest, but I can't get off the flamin production line!!

What should I do Steve? Kill Jill or run away from home (and take my garage
with me)?

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:25:13 -0700
From: Jeffrey Donovan <jeffrey at promash.com>
Subject: Grain Absorption Rate

Greetings all. One note on the grain absorption rate:

>On May 10,2002 Andrew Nix wrote:
>I checked out Promash (which is what I formulate my recipes in) and they
>use 0.12 gallons of water loss per pound of grains.  Daniels' DGB uses a
>value of 0.20 gallons per lb of grain.  For a 12 gallon batch of beer which
>uses say 20 pounds of grain, Promash says the grain bed will absorb 2.4
>gallons, while Daniels' calcs would give 4 gallons lost.

Yes 0.12 is the default that ProMash uses. However should you disagree with 
the number or have found your own absorption rate to be different you can 
easily reset the default in ProMash to reflect your own findings. You do 
this in the System Settings, Mash System section (there you will find an 
entry for Grain Absorption Rate). I have personally found 0.12 to work for 
me but I certainly don't claim that to be an absolute.

Cheers!

Jeffrey Donovan





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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:46:30 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: cloudy CAP

Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> writes from Cleveland Hts, OH:

>Jeff, I finally have a CAP with almost as much corn character
>as the one you brought to MCAB, but the darn thing refuses to clear!
>It's tough drinking/smelling with my eyes closed!

I am assuming you've lagered this, right?  Lagering at 32 F (0 C) for 
4-6 weeks should clear it pretty well.  A chill haze will develop at 
this temperature, then settle out with time.

The one I brought to MCAB had lagered only 3-1/2 weeks but was nearly 
clear.  I think I was the only one who noticed it was.  It clarified 
the rest of the way in the next week or so.

I kept it at lagering temperature the next three weeks and just 
continued to drink it from thick mugs, which brought the temperature 
up to drinking temps.  The remaining 5 gallons was gone by the sixth 
week of lagering due to house guests for two weeks, first my sister 
and brother-in-law and some of his family, then a CAMRA member 
English homebrewing couple, who seemed to prefer it to a fairly nice 
bitter I'd brewed in their honor.  No complaints here - I love to 
brew and generally can't drink it up fast enough.  Thanks to a party 
with the bitter on hand pump, it's now gone as well, leaving me to 
drink brown malt stout from January!

Anyway, have you tried fining with gelatin?  This is pretty 
effective.  Polyclar is another, especially if it's a matter of chill 
haze that you don't want to wait for.  At the risk of mentioning the 
"O" word, this can also remove some oxidized polyphenolics that can 
contribute to haze, but I'm not entirely clear on that (a pun for 
Mii).

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:48:57 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Question: 2 gallon batch in 5 gallon carboy?

"Ron L" <j4ckstr4w at hotmail.com> asks:

>Is there any harm in making a smaller batch in a larger carboy?  I want to
>try some new things but don't want to be stuck with 5 gallons of mistake. 
>Any ideas would be appreciated.

No problem whatsoever.  As with any fermenter, don't leave the beer 
in it too long after it's done fermenting with a lot of head space, 
although with a carboy and air lock, this is less of a problem than 
with a bucket.

I have a three gallon carboy that I use as a secondary for small batches.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:54:15 -0400
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com>
Subject: Russian Stout

David:

Speaking from my limited experience, a given amount of dark DME will yield 
less fementable sugar than the same amount of light DME. This is due to the 
fact that the "dark" in dark DME is contributed by grains from which little 
or no sugars can be gained (black patent, roasted barley, etc), but which 
contribute to the overall weight.

Therefore, if your recipe calls for a certain weight of light DME, you need 
to increase the over-all quantity of extract to compensate for the 
unfermentables in the dark DME, in order to reach the target gravity. I 
would guess that a 15%-20% increase would do the trick; perhaps others have 
a more precise recommendation. I suspect, however, that a precise 
substitution is only possible when the exact make-up of the dark DME is 
known. This comment also applies to the reduction in specialty grains: only 
by knowing the dark DME composition can you make a precise compensation. Art 
or science? You choose.

Best wishes,

Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia



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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:37:13 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: still Re: was HSA

On Mon, 13 May 2002 06:09:53 -0400, Steve Alexander wrote:

>Oxidation ("signs of oxidation") isn't a matter of taste.  It is at least
>theoretically a measurable objective quantity and there are many different
>proxies used to measure oxidation - ITT and ORP measures are commonly used
>for acidic foods like beer and are available at brewing labs like Seibels.

The amount of any given chemical "X" that is present in my beer might
also be measured to a very precise degree.  If it is below my threshold
of taste, then regardless of how precisely it can be measured, I STILL
cannot taste it.  Precise measurement does not equate to taste.  You
can insist that the results of oxidation are not a matter of taste if
you want.  No matter how much I insist that my grandmother is a
tractor, however, I am not able to get her to pull a plow through the
"north 40".

>I refuse to applaud when someone like Alistair says "my beer has no
>oxidation" based solely on flavor.  These same people usually do not
>understand the wide range of oxidation flavor consequences possible and have
>no unoxidized sample for comparison.  They are making claims of a factual
>basis while in a state of nearly perfect ignorance.

For all we know, there may be witches living in our beer.  We cannot
see them, cannot hear them, cannot smell them, and cannot taste them,
but all this is no proof that they are not there.  There are all kinds
of flavor consequences possible, and we have no witch-free sample for
comparison.  In spite of this stunning and solid lack of evidence, I am
not interested in going on a witch hunt.  Not until such time that they
begin to manifest themselves into something that I detect.

Your definition of "ignorant" would seem to be "anyone who disagrees
with you".  I do not care about the amount of oxidation (or witches)
present in my beer as long as it does not affect its flavor, does not
have unpleasant side effects, and does not represent a health risk. 
>From what I have read from others, I am not alone in this regard, but
there I go spouting opinion again.  As far as the other goes, I cannot
speak for "Alistair" [sic], but I personally neither need nor have I
asked for your applause.

>> Steve, I know that this is a technique used for test purposes.  But
>> every time I have seen a side-by-side data comparing accelerated aging
>> versus natural aging, such as in the reference we have been discussing
>> so much of late, there are marked differences between them.
>
>I'm not surprised that you are confused, but I'm more troubled that Pivo is.
>He seems to think there is some other control sample available for
>comparison.

Why are you not surprised that *I* am confused?  Are you saying, Steve,
that I am incapable of understanding such matters?  I am curious.  Do
you actually think about the things you say before you say them, or do
you make insulting comments by choice?

Never mind.  I am not actually that curious, and the answers are
unimportant.  I will not be losing any sleep worrying about your
opinion of me.

Meanwhile, table III (Relationship Between Nonenal Potential of Worts
and the Flavor Stability of Corresponding Beers) from the article
"Nonoxidative Mechanism for Development of trans-2-Nonenal Beer" shows:

				Accel.	Natural
Wort		Boil	Ferm.	Aging	Aging

With CO2	0.3	1.4	0.22	0.27
Good hot break	3.9	3.3	0.40	0.98
Bad hot break	4.5	5.1	0.65	2.69

Who needs a control sample when one can look at data like this?  The
differences between accelerated and natural aging are striking.  One
does not even need to know what "trans-2-Nonenal" means to see the
differences.  This is hardly an isolated example where natural and
accelerated aging produced significantly different results.  Small
wonder that I am "confused" as to the validity of such a procedure.

>The most telling difference between our positions is summed up in your own
>words, "I do not make my beer for test purposes [...]".    All of my beers
>are experimental 

As I have already stated, I make beer because it is fun to do so.  You
apparently make beer for the technical data that can be gleaned from
the process.  I see nothing wrong with either of these reasons,
although at this point it would not surprise me to hear that you
disagree.  When in a disagreement with someone, I have a natural
tendency to look for "common ground" upon which we can both agree. 
Even where it exists, however, it cannot be found unless both parties
are willing to look for it.

While I do not perform experiments that subject my beer to conditions
that are outside the norm just to see what happens, I certainly do look
for ways to improve my brews.  I am only interested in problems I
detect under NORMAL conditions.  When I find one, I attempt to
determine the cause of that problem, and then identify the appropriate
corrective measure(s) so that the problem does not reoccur.  If I were
to determine that oxidation was the cause of some problem in my beer,
then at least I would now know of some steps I could take to address
it.  Your insistence that all homebrewed beers are oxidized does not
get the "north 40" plowed any quicker.  Maybe they are; maybe not. 
Perhaps the witches are hiding the problem from me.  Unless such
oxidation falls within the range of my senses, I really do not care if
it is there or not.

>If your unwilling to expend this tiny effort towards understanding favor 
>shifts then you really have no honest interest in the subject.

Well, at least we agree on SOMETHING.







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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:42:37 -0400
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: Re: MY INHERITANCE

Cruel site of the day a few days ago:
http://www.savannahsays.com/kizombe.htm
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy at bergsman.org
http://bergsman.org/jeremy


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:43:26 -0400
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: Siebel Week: Sugar Fermentabilities

Sometime back I tried to do some research on fermentabilities of different
sugar sources and did not have much luck.  The sources I found were not very
specific on certain sugars and left out others altogether.  Some "sugars"
would of course vary by water content so I added in some average water
contents, but the average fermentability percentage of each sugar is what I
am after.  Also if you can tell me what the extract potential (p/p/g) is for
each sugar, and density of each sugar. Several of these I know, but I am
very interested to see what you have to say.

Here is the list I am interested in knowing the fermentability percentage,
extract potential, and density of:
Cane Sugar
Corn Sugar
Light Brown Sugar
Dark Brown Sugar
Invert Sugar (20% water)
Honey (17% water)
Molasses (25% water)
Maple Syrup (33% water)
Treacle (20% water)

Thank you very much for this opportunity.

Cheers,
Mike





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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:50:49 -0400
From: "Nathan Rollins" <solarahawk-fun at carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: MY INHERITANCE

Hello Fellow Brewers,

As a representative of the Better Business Bureau in Charlotte NC, I need to
make sure everyone understands this email is a variation on an old scam,
generically referred to as the Nigerian Scam Letter.  These scams vary in
their wording and "sob story", but the story is always from an African
country in turmoil, the person in the letter has a large sum of money they
cannot access for some reason, and they ask for someone to act as a banking
"channel" for the funds to be routed to the States.  They want the American
to provide them with a bank account number so they can transfer this large
sum of money, and they promise to give the American contact a cut of the
funds.

The reality is when they have been given the account numbers and other
pertinent information, they are able to clear the account of all the funds
in it.  These scam artists are particularly fond of targeting businesses
because there is a greater likelihood of a significant balance in the
account which they can remove.

For more information on these scams, you can go to the national BBB website:
www.bbb.org,
  the Consumer Scams Page:
  http://www.bbb.org/pubpages/scamspage.asp,
  and the Advice Page for Businesses on the Nigerian Scam Letter:
  http://www.bbb.org/library/ba-nigerian.asp.


Nathan Rollins
Charlotte, NC

- -------------------------------------------
Just started brewing a few months ago and loving it!)
Drinking: Bavarian-style Hefeweizen (my 4th batch of beer)
Secondary Conditioning: Scotch Strong Ale (Batch #5)
Getting ready to Brew: Standard Dry Mead
(Now I just need to figure out where to put these long-term fermentors)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:54:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: SoCal Beverage Stores?

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Howdy gang,

 Are there any beverage/package/liquor stores in the L.A/Pasadena area who
carry any all of the following?

Mead
Barley Wine
Belgian Ales (Chimay, etc)

Going to Pas and want to pick up some items we cant get here in GA.


Steven St.Laurent	403forbidden.net	[580.2,181.4] Rennerian
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE84RcuCiajR6RR+KARAm+aAJ91vmYHaY8bCdYKAxjzYEISgEBnsQCePiMS
DBFZaBUUarm2HSijB9OyoX4=
=Z8/1
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:01:50 -0600
From: "John Adsit" <jadsit at attbi.com>
Subject: Classic Ammerican Beers

Randy wrote:
>The earliest recollection I have of drinking American beer (I am an
> American) was when I was about 12 years old (1969
>
> And again tonight, when I was having a Heiney from the can, I thought, "
If
> I could taste this right next to an American pils of the sixties, or
> earlier, I bet it would be right in the ballpark". Am I way off here? Jeff
> Renner? Jack Schmidling? Others? What do you say?
>
I don't claim Jeff's expertise, and I certainly should let him answer this,
but I do remember (vaguely) 1969, when I was a college student tasting all
the "great" American beers. (It's been said that if you can remember the
60's, you weren't there.)

I believe the conversion from classic style to the blandness we came to
expect in American beers took place long before that.  The change took place
primarily in the 1950's, with the advent of mass marketing via television. I
actually saw a special on this on the History Channel.  They said that first
Miller and then Budweiser tried to take advantage of this new advertising
medium to claim a national market. They had to brew a national beer to do
that, one that would be acceptable to all palates, including their newest
target: women.

In previous years, Jeff has talked also about gradual changes to brewing
practices (including lagering time) during this time period designed to save
$$$.

In 1969, the American market was pretty much closed to foreign beers.  You
simply could not get anything but American beers.  You could get the big
market beers (Miller, Bud, Schlitz) and some more local beers.  (In my area,
that would be Schaeffer or Utica Club; in the west, Coors was the biggest
local beer.)  I remember that a bar a few miles away from us had a strange
beer that they had "imported," and we all drove out to get our first taste
of Rolling Rock.  When we wanted to get adventurous, we would cross the
Canadian border for some Molson or Labatts.  We all thought the Canadian
beers were a big improvement.

Then came the false imports, like Lowenbrau and Tuborg, that were actually
made in America by the national breweries.

It was not long after that that true foreign beers started to enter the
market.  Canadian beers became available. Mexican beers, and yes, Heineken,
appeared in store shelves.  Everyone I knew felt all these beers were better
than the American beers we had grown up on.

If you want to get back to the taste of the true American Pilsner, I think
you have to go back to a time that is beyond the memories of almost anyone
involved in HBD.

John Adsit
Boulder, CO
jadsit at attbi.com





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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:04:49 -0500
From: brewingbeer at boxfrog.com
Subject: Siebel Week

I represent a commercial brewery that is developing sediment in bottles of 
beer.  The sediment is only occuring in those beers that are dry hopped, 
specifically Pale Ale and IPA. 

A sample has been analyzed by Siebel Laboratories which shows:
Skins:  Few
Flakes:  Few
Strings:  Few
Fine Granules:  Very Many
Oxalate Crystals:  Some
Yeast - Abnormal:  Some
Bacteria:  Few 

The beer is dry hopped by adding hop pellets to the fermenter after the beer 
has reached 34 degrees F and the yeast has been drawn off.  After several 
days the hops are removed and the beer filtered with a DE filter. 

The beer remains bright in the bottle for two weeks before the formation of 
a very fine sediment begins.  After eight weeks the sediment is more 
considerable, the particles form larger clumps, but the beer remains 
brilliant and tastes fine. 

We have gone to successively tighter filtrations to no avail. 

We suspect the abnormal yeast and bacteria are being added with the hops in 
the fermenter, but they do not seem to be the cause of the sediment. 

How do we eliminate this sediment without ending our practice of dry 
hopping? 

brewingbeer at boxfrog.com


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:02:12 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices

"Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> of Bellville, TX writes:

>I have always had a fascination with the origins of certain common
>expressions and practices.  Here are a few of the more widely known
>ones, having to do with beer, drinking, or some such.  I would love to
>hear any others you know!

Larry, you stupid, ignorant twit!  Don't you know that these 
apocryphal definitions are what are called "folk etymologies"?!  This 
is what comes from drinking oxidized beer!!

OOPS, sorry, I thought I was someone else.

Actually, none of these "origins" holds up to scrutiny.  I used the 
Oxford English Dictionary (O.E.D.) and other sources.

>Mind your P's and Q's

Here is what the O.E.D says:

"Note. As to the origin of these nothing has been ascertained. An 
obvious suggestion is that [one possible origin] refers to the 
difficulty which a child beginning to read has in distinguishing the 
tailed letters p and q."

It gives other possible, less convincing origins, which are also 
discussed at http://www.uselessknowledge.com/word/pq.shtml


>Wet your whistle ... It was common for a whistle to be baked into 
>the ceramic beer mugs

Seems unlikely.  I mean, really, how common could that have been? 
Again, from O.E.D., entry for "whistle":

"2. colloq. A jocular name for the mouth or throat as used in 
speaking or singing; chiefly in phr.

to wet (erron. whet) one's whistle, to take a drink.

[first reference in print] C. 1386 Chaucer Reeve's T. 235 So was hir 
ioly whistle wel y-wet


>The whole nine yards

See http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/nineyards.htm  and 
http://www.uselessknowledge.com/word/yards.shtml for discussions of 
this phrase.  I'd heard it explained as the capacity of a cement 
truck.  Interestingly, the O.E.D. finds the first reference in print 
to be 1970, surprisingly late.


>Free sheets to the wind ... "Three [sic] sheets to the wind" is an
>often used (meaningless?) variation.

Again, OED makes no mention of this putative original phrase, only 
mentioning under sheet (sail):

"three sheets in the wind: very drunk.

a sheet in the wind (or wind's eye) is used occas. = half drunk.

[first reference in print] 1821 Egan Real Life i. xviii. 385 Old Wax 
and Bristles is about three sheets in the wind. "

See also http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm


>Honeymoon

I've also heard this origin, but it seems forced, and since OED makes 
no mention of it, I doubt it.  See 
http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-hon1.htm, which says in part:

"Those of you with romantic constitutions had better look away now. 
There are many invented stories about the origin of this word, mostly 
so sickly that I cringe at repeating them. ...  Putting it simply, it 
was that charmed period when married love was at first as sweet as 
honey, but which waned like the moon and in roughly the same period 
of time. Cynical, I know, but that's etymology!"


>Holding a Wake ... Lead cups

Nah.  Surely apocryphal.  Lead poisoning is cumulative and would not 
produce the acute symptoms described.  OED mentions only it being a 
vigil (although I have heard, too, that it was to make sure that the 
person was well and truly dead;  it was certainly hard to tell before 
modern medicine:

"3. The watching (esp. by night) of relatives and friends beside the 
body of a dead person from death to burial, or during a part of that 
time; the drinking, feasting, and other observances incidental to 
this. Now chiefly Anglo-Irish or with reference to Irish custom. Also 
applied to similar funeral customs in other times or among 
non-Christian peoples."

//

Well. Larry, I hope I have convinced you and that you are not going 
to continue to dwell in the land of ignorance!

Geez, I seem to have wasted an hour at this!

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:28:30 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Practical Thermo question

stencil <stencil at bcn.net> writes:

>I want to cool a kegful of beer from its currrent 50F to its ultimate
>lagering temp of 35+/-2F.  I want to do it slowly, like, one degree a
>day.

I don't have an answer to your question on how to do this, but I have 
a question of my own - why do you want to do this?  It's good not to 
drop the temperature too fast to avoid shocking the yeast, but this 
seems unnecessarily cautious, and wasteful of time.  It will take you 
more than two weeks to drop the temperature.  yeast is tougher than 
that.

The is sufficient thermal mass in five gallons of beer that I think 
you could drop the temperature of a fridge 5 deg. F per day without a 
problem and the beer temperature would lag a bit behind that.  This 
is more or less what I do.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:35:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ronnie Anderson" <lerxst at webmages.com>
Subject: keg cooling while camping

This year I'll be returning to the BURP Mashout (3 day camping
event), and am thinking about building a jockey box for my kegged
beer (5 gallon corney). Last year the temperature was over 90F
during the day, and I'm curious about what is going to happen to my
beer if I don't keep the keg cool:
 - Assuming the temperatures will be about the same this year, will
the beer spoil?
 - Am I going to be able to get the beer temperature down enough to
serve without cooling the keg?
 - If I need to keep the keg cool, any thoughts on the most
efficient/portable way, ideally using as little ice as possible?
 - If it does need to be cool, what is the ideal temperature for the
keg so that I don't get glasses full of foam when pouring from the
jockey box?
Oh, last year I had a 6 gallon bucket with the keg in the center and
ice surrounding it, and a picnic(?) hand tap. About 1/3 of the keg
was sticking out of the top. Worked ok, but I went through quite a
few bags of ice.
TIA,
Ronnie




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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:53:58 -0600
From: "Monica Tall" <monica at aob.org>
Subject: Nationa Homebrewers Conference

Howdy folks!

Join the American Homebrewers Association
for this year's National Homebrewers Conference --
the largest homebrewers conference in the world!

It's time to gear up with your pint glasses for a "Big Texas Toast".

What: American Homebrewers Association
        2002 National Homebrewers Conference
When: June 20 - 22, 2002
Where: Wilson World Hotel
	Irving, Texas U.S.A

Visit http://hbd.org/nhc2002/index.htm or contact
the Association of Brewers at 888.822.6273 or
+1.303.447.8016 for more information.

Celebrate with your "microbrethren" while drinking beer made be homebrew
clubs across the United States.

Event Highlights:

*Last-round judging of the National Homebrew Competition
*Three days of homebrewing lectures and seminars
*Nightly events featuring beer made from clubs across
the United States.

Featured Speaker: Peter Koestler, Weihenstephan-trained brewmaster with
Gambrinus
He'll talk about:
	*Texas bock history
	*Texas brewing and its German influences
	*Comparing Texas and German bocks
	*And much more about his published German-brewing studies

Other speakers:
        *Two-time Homebrewer of the Year Charlie Gottenkieny
        *Great American Beer Festival gold medal winner Jason Courtney
        *Charlie Papazian, President of the Association of Brewers
	and author of "The Home Brewer's Companion"
        *Louis Bonham, Scott Birdwell, Fred Eckhardt, Chris White,
	David Logsdon

Event Sponsors:
*FlavorActiV
*Rogue Ales
*Beer, Beer and More Beer
*BJ's Restaurant and Brewhouse
*White Labs
*Wyeast Laboratories





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:04:05 -0600
From: "Monica Tall" <monica at aob.org>
Subject: National Homebrewers Conference

Howdy folks!

Join the American Homebrewers Association
for this year's National Homebrewers Conference --
the largest homebrewers conference in the world!

It's time to gear up with your pint glasses for a "Big Texas Toast".

What: American Homebrewers Association
        2002 National Homebrewers Conference
When: June 20 - 22, 2002
Where: Wilson World Hotel
	Irving, Texas U.S.A

Visit http://hbd.org/nhc2002/index.htm or contact
the Association of Brewers at 888.822.6273 or
+1.303.447.8016 for more information.

Celebrate with your "microbrethren" while drinking beer made be homebrew
clubs across the United States.

Event Highlights:

*Last-round judging of the National Homebrew Competition
*Three days of homebrewing lectures and seminars
*Nightly events featuring beer made from clubs across
the United States.

Featured Speaker: Peter Koestler, Weihenstephan-trained brewmaster with
Gambrinus
He'll talk about:
	*Texas bock history
	*Texas brewing and its German influences
	*Comparing Texas and German bocks
	*And much more about his published German-brewing studies

Other speakers:
        *Two-time Homebrewer of the Year Charlie Gottenkieny
        *Great American Beer Festival gold medal winner Jason Courtney
        *Charlie Papazian, President of the Association of Brewers
	and author of "The Home Brewer's Companion"
        *Louis Bonham, Scott Birdwell, Fred Eckhardt, Chris White,
	David Logsdon

Event Sponsors:
*FlavorActiV
*Rogue Ales
*Beer, Beer and More Beer
*BJ's Restaurant and Brewhouse
*White Labs
*Wyeast Laboratories






Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:24:02 -0600
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices

These are really good, Larry. Definitely worth forwarding on to others.

I always wondered where the expression "Hair of the dog that bit you" came
from when associated with having a beer (or whatever) the morning following
a little binge drinking. Anyone know where this one originates?



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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:34:36 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: Re: electrical element cover

I have an electrical element cover on my RIMS that appears to be simpler
and more effective than what I have seen posted here so far.  It combines
simplicity, ease of maintenance, and cost into one easily constructed unit.
I think most RIMS operators will find this connection perfect for their
use.

I used an air conditioner extension cord for the electrical wiring on my
RIMS.  These cords are about 6 feet long and rated for 15 amps.  I cut the
extension in half, leaving me with a set of male and female plug-ends and
wiring that is nicely sealed and insulated.  The male plug-end wires into
my control panel and connects to a standard wall outlet.  The pump is wired
in with a wire-nut connection.  That leaves me with a female plug-end and
wiring for the element connection.  I need male connectors on the element
to use this.

I created male connector prongs to mount on the element using 1/2-inch hard
copper tubing.  I wish I had a picture of the assembly, but I will just
have to describe the configuration here.  If there are readers that have
difficulty visualizing this assembly, I can bring a digital camera home and
send a picture directly to anyone that needs it.

Cut the copper tube into (two) 1.1- to 1.25-inch lengths and hammer each
one flat.  This is your prong material.  Clamp a piece of flattened tube in
a vise with 5/8-inch of the tube length in the jaws.  Hammer the copper
over to form a 90 degree bend in it.  Make two of these copper pieces.

The 5/8-inch leg is going to be the electrical prong, the other leg will be
drilled and screwed to the element post.  The US standard electrical plug
prongs are 5/8-inch long, 1/4-inch wide, and spaced 1/2-inch apart.  A US
standard water heater element screw lugs are spaced about 1-inch apart, but
they are situated diagonally across the end cap.  I found that I could
orient the prongs at the proper 1/2-inch spacing with a little jockeying.
Once you figure out how the copper pieces will be oriented on the heater
element, you can mark the excess metal that will need to be cut off to
leave you with the 1/4-inch prongs located parallel to each other at the
1/2-inch spacing.  You will also have to cut or grind the base of the
copper pieces to clear the various humps and obstructions on the heater
element.  After the pieces fit in the proper alignment while sitting on the
element posts, you can drill the copper pieces so that they can be attached
to the element posts with the screws.

Now the female plug will fit right on the male prongs that you mounted on
the element.  The female plug still leaves some energized metal exposed.
To cover those areas, one of those rubbery carboy vent caps will work
perfectly.  Cut the cap so that it fits tightly over the female plug unit.
I suggest gluing the cap to the female plug using Goop adhesive, it has a
tenacious grip.  The carboy cap will fit over the element end, covering all
exposed electrical areas.  The finished assembly allows quick disconnection
from the element.  The prongs stay out of the way so that you can still fit
a water heater wrench on the element for ease of removal.

This will solve the element connection and cover problem.

There has also been some discussion on the proper heater chamber
orientation.  I find that orienting the chamber on a 45-degree angle is a
good compromise for keeping most of the element submerged while keeping the
threaded end elevated.  Having the threaded end up reduces the possibility
of leakage.  I'm not sure leakage is really a problem.  Another HBD'er has
already correctly pointed out that there is not much fluid pressure in a
RIMS.  The availability of 45-degree elbows is the reason I suggest the
45-degree orientation.

My system has the heater chamber inlet at the bottom.  The outlet port is
as high as possible on the chamber, with the outlet pipe pointing up.  This
way, the amount of air trapped at the top of the chamber is reduced.  I
guess, if you were really concerned with reducing the trapped air pocket,
mounting the chamber horizontally would be pretty good too.  You might have
more leakage concern with this though.  I agree with some others, that
mounting the chamber with the threaded end down, is asking for trouble.

I hope you find these RIMS tips helpful.  I can send a photo of my assembly
to anyone who requests.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:04:25 -0700
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: Whole nine yards...

Interesting bits about language, but one is not right. "The whole nine
yards" is also a sailing term. Back in the times of square rigged sailing
ships, many a ship had three masts and each mast had three yardarms (or
yards). A sail could be hung from each of these yardarms. When all the sails
were up, the ship was in maximum sail, or "giving it the whole nine yards".
The number of phrases with nautical origin that are still in use today is
huge but I won't waste bandwidth with more.

Mike Schrempp
Gig harbor, WA  


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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:09:14 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Classic American Pils & CAP yeast

Randy Ricchi <randyr at up.net> writes from somewhere in Michigan's 
Upper Peninsula (what we here in Michigan call the U.P.):

>I was having a Heiney from the can, I thought, " If
>I could taste this right next to an American pils of the sixties, or
>earlier, I bet it would be right in the ballpark". Am I way off here? Jeff
>Renner? Jack Schmidling? Others? What do you say?

Others have suggested that there is essentially no difference between 
a Dutch Pilsner and a CAP.  Certainly my CAPs are bigger flavored 
than a Heinie, but it's been years since I've had one that wasn't 
skunked.  Guess I should try it again.

I was drinking American lagers in the late sixties and even by then 
they were pretty well watered down, at least the ones from here in 
Michigan and the midwest.  I guess maybe Brooklyn ones were hoppier. 
I favored Schlitz at the time, but had no idea why, then I stopped 
liking it.  I've heard since that they changed the recipe and/or 
procedure and its popularity plummeted, not just with me.  But I 
think it was a bit hoppier than other brands.

BTW, I have heard that Schlitz restored the old recipe, and I find 
that it is a cut above other American lagers in hops flavor and 
bitterness.  You can actually taste bitterness.  As I recall it took 
a gold medal at the GBBF some years ago in its category.  It's what I 
look for when I'm buying beer for a picnic of non beer geeks.

>While I'm on the subject of CAP's, what's the consensus on the best yeast
>for a CAP? The Christian Schmidt strain seems logical, and I'm under the
>impression that Wyeast 2272 is that strain. Any comments? Thanks.


I agree it would seem to be a good choice.  I haven't used it myself. 
My first CAP I brewed with 2035, August Schell, supposedly, even 
though I have seen a warning that it is not a pilsner yeast.  I liked 
it.  I use Ayinger yeast most of the time, but really, any clean 
lager yeast should be a good choice, although I would stay away from 
the ones that emphasize malt over hops.  I used the Danish strain 
once and liked it's clean, crisp hoppy flavor.

Jeff

PS - this may be a new record for the number of posts in one day by one person.


- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:23:43 -0500
From: "Jeremy Lenzendorf" <jlenzendorf at progeng.com>
Subject: trip from Milwaukee, WI to Yellowstone

SWMBO and I will be taking a trip in June from near Milwaukee, WI to
Yellowstone National Park and then back by a different route.  Our trip will
be fairly flexible as we will be driving and taking a week or so to do it.
She has given me free reign to explore possible beer destinations that may
be on the way.  So, my open ended question is:  Can anyone suggest possible
pit stops along a route near the main hiways from Wisconsin through
Minnesota, South Dakota Wyoming and possibly coming back through Colorado,
Nebraska and Iowa?  Any suggestions are welcome, we will be mapping out a
route in the coming weeks.  Private replies would be fine.

Also, I'm an intermitten brewer in West Bend.  I'm not sure that I can
devote a lot of my ever shrinking amount of free time to a club, but I'd be
interested in hearing from anyone in the area that has info on any north of
Milwaukee.

TIA,
Jeremy
West Bend, WI

Jeremy Lenzendorf
Project Engineer
Progressive Engineering, Inc.
http://www.progeng.com



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---