---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  steam jacketed boiler (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  home breweries around the word (Jeff Renner)
  We're Baaaaaack! (Pat Babcock)
  Judging Fruited Meads ("David Craft")
  Wheat Wine Gravity Problems ("Colby Fry")
  Re: further to hsa/oxidation silliness (Spencer W Thomas)
  Great Taste Tickets Going Fast ("Bruce Garner")
  Re: Re: further to hsa/oxidation silliness ("Robin Griller")
  Wanna be a beer writer? (Bill Wible)
  Siebel Response-Hot Break-Lyn Kruger ("Rob Moline")


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:15:00 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: steam jacketed boiler

Due to renovations at my worksite, I am now the proud owner of a Vulcan-
Hart SL-30 Steam Jacketed stainless steel kettle!  It is huge: 30
gallon capacity, with ss dome (drop type handle), kettle interior sloped
for smooth product flow out of a tapered 2" draw off valve,...

It has a 15 psi relief valve, steam supply valve...and even a rotatable
fawcett on top...

I suppose that if I can get a good heat source for the steam, it would
make a real good boiler?


Anyone have any experience/ toughts on this ?  I looked on the Vulcan
Web site for specs and the smallest model listed was the SL-40, which
makes me believe that they no longer make this 30....

 ..Darrell



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:50:44 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: home breweries around the word

Brewers

There is a great web site at 
http://pub9.ezboard.com/fbarleysforume.showMessage?topicID=184.topic 
with photos of 82 homebrewers breweries and links to each.  It's a 
remarkable array.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:57:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: We're Baaaaaack!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Ah! After wrastling in the virtual mud with our ISP, NSI and
Dotster (Dotster being the easiest to deal with in the herd), I
am please to say we're a back!

Please advise me of any abnormalities you encounter in accessing
the network in email, or the web. Particularly, missing
webpages, domains that fail or go to the wrong place, or weird
email errors received AFTER 5/29/2002. Thanks!

(Just to fill you in: Our ISP poorly planned the migration, and the HBD
network in total was inaccessible from about 3pm Friday until about noon
Tuesday. DNS records propagation seemed to have completed late Wednesday,
and I was able to restart the mail server this morning.)

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:48:49 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Judging Fruited Meads

Greetings,

I hope everyone had a nice holiday.

I just received my score sheets from the Southern Region AHA.

A prickly pear mead (so many people that have read the book must try this,
I did) was entered in the Other Fruited Mead category. It got a so-so
score.  Both judges knocked it down for lacking fruit aroma and flavor, but
said it was oxidized and had "sherry" flavors. I did not add as much fruit
as I have seen in other recipes, so this makes a little sense. But the
sherry flavors, that is what it should have had.

  Every description of PP Mead I have ever read refers to the sherry
flavors.  It seems neither judge knew what the fruit in the mead was
supposed to be.  I found this to be the case in another more local contest.
I am not complaining, just confused.  If you are judging fruited  mead then
you should know up front what fruit you are looking for.  How else can you
determine how balanced the flavors are?

What is the routine for judging fruited mead?

Regards,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:58:25 -0400
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Wheat Wine Gravity Problems

I recently made a wheatwine with an OG of 1.142 and I used Wyeast wheat blend
and White Labs dry English Ale for the primary hoping to take the gravity down
to 1.040-1.050 and then finish it off with champagne yeast. Each was a quart
starter. I checked the gravity after two weeks and it was 1.070 and no sign of
activity. I added 10grams of champagne yeast and some 'yeast energizer' and
shook for a little bit. (two weeks later) The gravity is still 1.070 and last
night I added 25 grams of rehydrated champagne , 10 tablets of yeast food, 3
tablets of energizer and shook for 20 seconds. Can anyone validate my actions?
Is this the right thing to do to get the gravity down to ~1.020. Any
suggestions? The following is the recipe
21 lbs. Muntons Liquid Wheat Wxtract
4 oz hallertau hops (90 minutes)
Wyeast Blend (weistephan and irish ale)
Whitelabs Dry English Ale
10 grams champagne yeast for finish.
10 grams yeast nutrients.
Thanks
Colby
Roxbury, Pa




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:03:25 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: further to hsa/oxidation silliness 

>>>>> "Robin" == Robin Griller <robin_g at ica.net> writes:

    Robin> The conclusion I would reach from this is: if you want to
    Robin> brew colourless tasteless crap (i.e. megaswill)
    Robin> worry. Otherwise relax and leave your beer alone, it's
    Robin> doing just fine as it is! :)

I don't necessarily agree.  I will illustrate this with an anecdote.

I'm a member of the "RealBeerTour" beer of the month club.  A couple
of months ago, the selection was "Red Biddy" from the Biddy Early
brewpub in Ireland.  It was a very nice "Irish Red Ale", of which
Jackson wrote:

    Huge, coffee colored, head. Deep, dark cherry, color. Fragrantly
    fruity aroma (cherry ice-cream?). Toasty and jammy, with a suggestion
    of cinnamon. Becoming maltier and smoother.  Herbal notes and a quite
    intense dryness in the long finish.

Well, I didn't necessarily get all that in my tasting, but it was a
very nicely made beer.  Or so I thought.  A month later, I still had
some bottles left.  I opened one and found it to be horribly oxidized,
with wet carboard and cooked pineapple flavor and aroma in abundance.
I don't know at what point in the process the oxidation occurred, but
it sure as heck had a very negative flavor impact.  I'll have to drink
the few remaining bottles well-chilled to kill the flavor. :-)

I've been keeping out of the "HSA" affray, but my take on it is this:
if you're happy with your beer, if your beer doesn't deterioriate
before you drink it all up, then *don't worry* and don't change.  But
if you want to make your beer better and longer-lived, one thing to
look at is potential sources of oxidation in your process.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:53:28 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Great Taste Tickets Going Fast

The Great Taste of the Midwest beer festival tickets are selling twice as
fast as last year. If you buy tickets through the mail get your order in as
soon as possible.

The Great Taste is Saturday, August 10th. One hundred brewers serving over
400 beers. Tickets are still $20. Send a stamped self addressed envelope
with your check to MHTG to MHTG, PO Box 1365, Madison, WI 53701

For more details and photos check the web site.

www.hbd.org/mhtg



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:09:32 -0400
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: Re: Re: further to hsa/oxidation silliness 

Spencer wrote:
 
> I've been keeping out of the "HSA" affray, but my take on it is this:
> if you're happy with your beer, if your beer doesn't deterioriate
> before you drink it all up, then *don't worry* and don't change.  But
> if you want to make your beer better and longer-lived, one thing to
> look at is potential sources of oxidation in your process.

Spencer seems to be reacting a little overly seriously to a tongue in cheek
comment, but as he's missed the point of what I was saying, in response
three points:

(1) I do wish that the person whose messages I don't receive, but who is
apparently posing as me in Spencer's emails and saying that oxidation
doesn't matter would stop! I do recall saying some things about claims made
about HSA in homebrew, but not about oxidation in general. So, of course
Spencer is right: don't allow your beer to come into contact with oxygen
after the beginning of fermentation.

(2) So, some silly brewery probably kills off the yeast in their beer,
exposes the beer to heat fluctuations in long shipping, etc., and anyone is
surprised their beer tastes like crap? STOP killing the beer and it'll
taste fine!!! When will those commercial breweries learn from us
homebrewers and start leaving live beer in their yeast to protect it???? My
god these commercial breweries do dumb things!!!! No wonder they have to
take all the flavour out of the beer in order to make a stable product.

(3) How is the taste of a beer about whose production processes Spencer
knows nothing evidence of HSA? It is not. And yes, he did not specify where
he thought the oxidation happened, but then that means he was not
responding to my argument, which was about the claims made for HSA in
homebrew. Add in that we just finished being told that HSA produces loss of
bitterness and a sweet caramel note (still sounds good to me, if only I
could manage it!!), and a beer having wet cardboard and pineapple flavours
is evidence for ??????

Robin



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:31:48 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Wanna be a beer writer?

See below.  This was sent to me, I don't live
in any of the areas they're seeking.

If anybody is interested, contact these guys.
God knows, many of you are qualified.  One of
you could become the next Michael Jackson!

Bill


ROCKY MOUNTAIN BREWING NEWS CALL FOR WRITERS

Like writing about beer? Live in the Rockies? (Or know
someone who might be interested who does?) How about
writing for the new Rocky Mountain Brewing News?
RMBN debuts this August throughout the Rockies!

We're seeking a cadre of regional craft beer
correspondents in Colorado, Montana, Wyoming,
Idaho, Utah, and northern Nevada. What does it
take? Good writing, excellent people skills,
and a passion for craft brewed beer.

If you are interested and live in the Rockies
(All Brewing News writers cover the regions
where they live), send an email to:
rmbneditor at brewingnews.com
requesting the application package. We'll send
you the Call for Writers document with complete
guidelines for submission. Do it right away!
We will be going to press in early July.

If you think you know someone who might be
interested, forward them this email.

Learn more about the Brewing News at:
http://www.brewingnews.com.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:38:03 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Siebel Response-Hot Break-Lyn Kruger

Brewers,
     Lyn Kruger has had some problems configuring her 'puter to respond and
has asked me to forward these for her. More timely delivery to you has been
delayed by the recent re-positioning of the HBD.....which brings us to
truths un-assailable by any...the value of the HBD....Thanks Pat Babcock!
Rob

QUESTION:
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:21:37 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Siebel Week
This question is about hot break.
I have been brewing all grain for about 5-6 years and have done mostly
single infusion batches. My water is very soft and I usually add a few grams
of CaCl2 to treat my brewing liquor. Most of my beers have been ales made
with either domestic 2-row or English pale ale malt. I have read about the
importance of a good hot break and in the past have seen smallish particles
of break material form in the first few minutes of the boil. These particles
have been pretty small - no more than 1/16" and usually less. I have tried a
variety of boiling procedures anywhere from a very high violent roll
(evaporation rates near 20%/hour) to a covered low roll (evaporation rate
closer to 8%/hour) but have not noticed much difference in the amount or
size of the break material in the wort.

I have started to brew lagers with more frequency and have purchased some of
the Budvar undermodified Czech malt. Recently I used it for the first time
in a Dortmunder Export using G. Fix's recipe. This recipe calls for a
dough-in at 104F for 30 minutes and then a steady rise at 1 degree F /
minute to mash out at 168F. When I started the boil I immediately noticed
these HUGE corn-flake sized particles that formed at the beginning of the
boil - I couldn't figure out what they were at first but quickly realized
that they indeed were mammoth sized hot break. I had never seen anything
like it! I have read about egg-soup sized hot break and this is exactly what
it looked like.
At the end of the boil I chilled it down to about 50F - and got a great cold
break as well. After pumping to my fermenter I examined the break material
and it was quite impressive in volume with large lightly colored clumps of
particulate matter left behind.
My questions:
1. Does the amount of rolling action of the boil (higher temperatures) have
anything to do with the production of break material as many HB books tend
to say? For example, general HB advice is that you must boil hard to get a
good hot break. In my experience this does not seem true - my hot break
usually occurs right at the beginning of the boil. I have actually talked to
professional brewers that have said, "Boil the hell out of it!" Other
sources say a boil of about 7-10%/hour evaporation rate is optimum and there
is a balance between DMS reduction/break formation and thermal
loading/excessive Maillard reactions. How does all this affect the quality
of the break in the boil?
2. Why the big difference from what I have seen in the past to what I saw
with this batch?
3. Was it the cause of the undermodified malt or the mashing regime?
4. If I had used German Pils or American 2-row with this same mash procedure
would I see the same type of break?
5. Finally, it seems logical that since break material is the coagulation
and therefore separation of tannin and phenolic materials (among other
things) in and from the wort... that more break and larger particles of
break material equals better beer... Is this a true statement?
Thank you for your time!
Troy Hager

RESPONSE
 Troy:
 You are quite correct that most of the hot break forms very rapidly.
Protein coagulates very quickly when it is heated. The main reasons for a
"good rolling boil" is to get aggregation of the precipitated protein and to
encourage DMS stripping from the wort. Generally about 8 % evaporation per
hour is a good target (about 15% total evaporation). Excessive boiling can
lead to the aggregates of protein breaking apart, darkening of the wort and
"bready/cooked" flavors.
 It is advantageous to have larger break particles because they can be separ
ated from the wort more efficiently.

Undermodified malt will contain both more protein and larger protein
molecules than a well modified malt. When these larger protein molecules
coagulate one would expect larger particles of break. I would suspect that
using a well modified malt, using the same mashing procedure, you would
observe your "regular" break.

Better beer relies on both obtaining a good break during boiling, but also
removing this break. The two operations really go hand in hand.

Lyn Kruger
Siebel Institute of Technology



Return to table of contents

---