HOMEBREW Digest #3954 Tue 04 June 2002

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  Length of sparge? ("Gary Smith")
  Oh Jeff.... (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Siebel response to responses. ("Steve Alexander")
  What do you drink from? ("B Morey")
  Buzz Off MCAB Winners ("David Houseman")
  Freezer problem (K Mychajlonka)
  Sunshine Challenge Winners (Don Lake)
  Klein marches on... ("James Sploonta")
  metabite/bicarb (AJ)
  Re: Water treatment and Baking Powder (Jeff Renner)
  Compact Corny Fridge (mohrstrom)
  Re: Searching for brew info (Ronald La Borde)
  Corny Tank Plug Thread? (mohrstrom)
  re: cloudy allgrain (Ken Pendergrass)
  Brew info (Bill Frazier)
  Has Anyone Tried the Guinness Draught in a Bottle Widget? ("Ryan and Shelly")
  Guinness Widget problem solved? ("Ryan and Shelly")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:50:47 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: Length of sparge? Greetings, I've been trying to get a good solid handle on sparging. I have read about some batches where no sparging is done ( as in high gravity beer ) & other examples where the sparge can take over an hour. I thought there was a problem with leaching tannins from husks & creating off flavors from prolonged exposure to husks to higher temps & water. I've read enough different "advices" that I'd like to get a mo better understanding of what is important & which is overkill. Any suggestions or great ruminations will surely be welcomed. Cheers, Gary P.S. Congratulations & 3 cheers to Pat on the migration to the new server, everything seems to be working perfectly. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:59:48 +1000 (EST) From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM> Subject: Oh Jeff.... It may be better for Miller to be a part of a brewing conglomerate rather than a company that makes everything from macaroni and cheese to cigarettes, but it pains me to see any US company go overseas. Jeff Ohh Jeff it only really hurts when its a kiwi company who buys out a favourite company. And it really really hurts when they crush a thriving industry as occured to Aussie Brewing in the early 80's! Scotty Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 04:09:54 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Siebel response to responses. re: Siebel Response- Sediment in Brew-Lyn Kruger-2 >The results of the analysis by Siebel Laboratories shows that you have very >many fine granules of protein in your sediment and this is probably the >primary cause of your problem. [...] >Brewhouse procedures and raw materials will influence the amount of protein >that is carried into your beer. Is this sediment consistent with protein precipitated by the addition of gallotannins and tannoids from the dry-hops ? If so then perhaps treating with PVPP or Polyclar or gelatin (polyphenolic reduction) during the dry-hopping will remove this possible cause of sedimentation. ========= Siebel Response: DO levels-Lyn Kruger-4 >The issue isn't really whether you aerate the wort prior to adding the yeast >or once the yeast has been added, but how much of the oxygen dissolves in >the wort. The yeast doesn't care when it's added as long as it gets enough >DISSOLVED oxygen. It's not just how much O2 is dissolved in the wort, but how much is still in the wort when the yeast are ready to use it. Oxygen disappears rapidly from unpitched wort. I have a reference somewhere about saturation levels of DO disappearing from UNPITCHED wort in 7 hours. Lodolo et al (MBAA-TQ v35, pp 139-154, 1999) demonstrate equal fermentation performance with 16ppm O2 at pitching vs 8ppm at pitching+4 hours. It is suggested that this is due to increasing affinity of yeast for O2 in the early hours after pitching. O'Conner-Cox & Ingledew studied the effects of oxygenation timing extensively tho' at laboratory scale (JASC v48, pp26-32) with similar conclusion. The yeast require 'enough oxygen' at a time when they are physiologically capable of utilizing it. An interesting side note .... As far as I know the only controlled (as opposed to empirically derived) yeast oxygenation schedule is a patented process by D.Quain and C.Boulton [see 'Brewing Yeast & Fermentation', pub=Blackwell Sci., 1999]. This process involves keeping a slurry at a fixed DO level and measuring the yeast O2 uptake rate (indirectly). The yeast are ready for pitching or cold storage when the yeast O2 uptake rate reaches a maxima in 2 to 6 hours. This well oxygenated slurry is pitched into UNoxygenated and is reported to be more storage-stable than the unoxygenated slurry, produces less yeast growth(more efficient), more consistent (complete) attenuation profile and comparable esters&fusels. This has been tested at commercial scale (apparently at Bass Ltd) ! If you think this doesn't apply to HB you underestimate the amateur's zeal. - --------- Whether there is a reply or not - thanks to the Siebel staff for all the 'food for thought'. -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:00:59 +1000 From: "B Morey" <bernardmorey at optushome.com.au> Subject: What do you drink from? What everyone's best or favourite glass to drink a fine beer from? I've been using bulls-eye (?) glasses with a handle, but they're heavy. Might get pilsner glasses but the larger ones are a bit tall for the glass rack in the dishwasher. I'd like to find UK-style pub glasses -- with the bulge about 2/3 the way up. Can't find them in Melbourne -- has anyone seen them? Bernard Morey Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 07:21:05 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net> Subject: Buzz Off MCAB Winners While the ribbon categories were posted, we omitted the MCAB winners list; these will be on our web site as well and will be posted within the next couple days. Judge evaluation forms and prizes are being mailed today. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 05:47:29 -0700 (PDT) From: K Mychajlonka <mychajlonka at yahoo.com> Subject: Freezer problem I have been reading the digest for over 6-months now (the archives as well) and have found the discussions helpful. I recently moved into a new home and the previous owners left me the upright freezer in the basement per my request. Well I didn't look at it very well, because after moving in I noticed the shelves were fixed and cannot be moved. In other words the coils are integrated into the shelves. My question is can I somehow make this freezer into a lagering fridge without too much trouble? Or should I get rid of it and start searching for one that is better suited for my purpose? I had one Idea of building a son-of-fermentation chamber next to it and using the cold air of the freezer for my "ice jugs", but that would require either a collar on the freezer or cutting a whole in it. Are there any other ideas? Can the shelves be removed somehow without affecting the freezer? I would think that would make a very inefficient freezer, but I am not in the refrigeration business. Thanks for any ideas on the subject. Kyle Waldorf, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 09:08:41 -0400 From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com> Subject: Sunshine Challenge Winners Thanks to all who entered, judged and volunteered with the Thirteenth Sunshine Challenge. We had over 600 entries. Please view the results at http://www.cfhb.org/ Congratulations to regular poster Nathan Kanous who's last minute entry won a gold medal for wheat beer and overall 2nd runner up Best of Show. For the third straight year, the Sunshine Challenge has taken great pride in handing out the actual judging/score sheets to the brewers at the end of the award ceremony. We are the only major competition (we know of ) that does this. We also "promptly" mail out the judge sheets and awards to the out of towners. We look forward to your participation in the 2003 Sunshine Challenge next May. Don Lake Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 09:35:09 -0400 From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com> Subject: Klein marches on... Well, I think this will be my last forray into the world of Klein. I'm debating whether or not to do the same as Mr. B and simply chuck this calendar into the trash. It's frustrating to think that some now believe that this is the way to decribe beer, and that there are beers on this planet that have "fizzy, hoppy mouthfeel that is companionable" - all because some idiot was given the right to drink beer and write about it. (For those who'd rather stay a tad closer to this planet in their beer experiences, might I recommend the style guidelines at http://bjcp.org? THey ain't perfect, but at least they're earthbound...) 5/21 Aass Bock. You KNOW that this ninny included this beer in his calendar for the same reasons he included Estrella Damm: he found the beer's name humorous (at least to his sophomoric sense of humor). Anyway, he says of Aass "It's well-balanced finishing aroma hints of molasses and caramel, but without the cloying sweetness often associated with the style." Excuse me? WHAT cloying sweetness is associated with the aroma of a Bock? Or with the flavor, fo that matter? 5/28 "Lager Lingo": BRavo! He finally got something right, after a fashion. He properly associates AMerican Ultra-Light Pilsener with the Pilsener style, and indicates taht it is only "a faint echo of the bubbly, aromatic, and hop-flowery real thing." 5/31 Castle Lager: How is is a beer's body "firm and taut"? How does it display "gritty texture"? 6/1 "Alexander Keith's India Pale Ale: this beer sounds NOTHING like any IPA I've ever drunk. A "mild sugary sweetness" which "acquires a pleasantly fizzy, hop mouthfeel at the swallow"? "Light and airy all over the mouth"? What the frig does THAT mean? 6/2 Saxer Bock: all I can say here is that, if your Saxer bock was "tart", it was infected. ("A stable hop background provides mouthwatering tartness at the edges of the tongue.") 6/3 Estrella Damm; "This Dammm beer..." See what I mean? Grammar school stuff. His description puts your tongue in traction... Well, that's enough for me. The calendar is headed for the incinerator, as I find it difficult to look at without reacting to it here on the HBD. I also regret having laid down money to buy the thing, thus supporting Klein in productiong of more such drivel. If I have brewing questions or input, you may see my email address again, but I think I'll settle back into lurk mode. I can see why Mr. B threw his out and stopped commenting on Klein: it gobbles time wholesale... -JS Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 14:51:42 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: metabite/bicarb In 0.08 of a second John obtained misleading information. One campden tablet contains about half a gram (depending on the manufacturer) of sodium or potassium (depending on the manufacturer) metabite which contain somewhat differnt amounts of sulfur dioxide. A level teaspoon of metabite powder is clearly more than half a gram - it's probably a couple of grams. Again the equivalent sulfur dioxide is dependent upon whether it is the sodium or potassium salt. Take a campden tablet and crush it. Then put the powder in a teaspoon. Is it even close to level? Thus the difference between an archives search and a posting has been illustrated. In the archives you will find info as erroneous as that which is posted to the live HBD and, if you search dilligently, any "rebuttal" of the erroneous information which may have been posted. In the live thread you are, if a religious reader, perhaps more likely to see the thread as a whole. The other thing the archives won't give you is the most current information or thinking on a subject. Mind you I'm not discouraging or disparaging archive searches. I think anyone interested in a subject should use the archives as a potential source but after reading them and drawing a conclusion it would be wise to throw the findings into the arena and see what the lions think. On to baking soda. No, it's not used in brewing. Baking soda, ( sodium bicarbonate), baking powder's main constituent, can be used to increase alkalinity though it isn't often employed for that purpose as chalk (calcium carbonate) seems to be preferred. The carbonate in chalk is, of course, converted to bicarbonate in the mash so I think the main reason people avoid baking soda is that sodium is at best a "don't care" ion while calcium is certainly beneficial. None of the other stuff in baking powder (which is designed to evolve CO2 gas in baked goods - thats what the monobasic phosphate is in there for) does any good in brewing though none of them would do any harm either. Remember that the reason gypsum is added is to increase the calcium available for pH reducing reactions in the mash at the expense of sulfate levels which may be detrimental to hops. Baking powder contains "acid" in the form of the phosphate but that is there to react with the alkalinity of the bicarbonate. As the gypsum in baking powder is a minor ingredient a teaspoon of baking powder would not have the pH reducing effect of a teaspoon of straight gypsum. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 11:17:08 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Water treatment and Baking Powder "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> writes from Greensboro, NC >Has anyone tried Baking Powder for an all around water treatment. I am >shying away from gypsum because of the sulphur content. Our water is very >soft . By sulfur, I assume you mean sulfate. Gypsum is calcium sulfate. >Baking Powder is............Sodium Bicarbonate, cornstarch, sodium aluminum >sulfate, calcuim sulfate, and monocalcium phophate. I am not looking for >big additions, just a teaspoon for a 6 gallon batch. This seems to cover a >broader range of minerals than gypsum. It is a broader range of minerals, but not really useful ones. You shouldn't add salts without a good reason. Since your water is very soft, you no doubt want to add calcium ions for the mash. But the majority of b.p. cations (the positively charged ones) is sodium, not calcium, and this isn't really of much use in brewing. Furthermore, I suspect that the large amount of bicarbonate will raise your mash pH - also not what you want. Then there is sodium aluminum sulfate, which has the sulfate you say you are trying to avoid, to say nothing of the aluminum, then our friend calcium sulfate (gypsum), and finally something rather useful, mono-calcium phosphate. This will add a calcium ion plus something there is lots of in a mash already, a phosphate ion. But it won't be adding much. I think that for ales, especially pale ales, gypsum is a fine addition to boost your calcium to at least 50ppm. The sulfate, within reason, adds a nice bite to the hops, and you can go higher for a good, crisp IPA. For lagers, calcium chloride seems a good choice as the sulfate is reputed to add a harshness to the hops bitterness. It's what I use. I like the idea of mono-calcium phosphate, though. A.J. has mentioned this in the past, I think, as a logical way of getting calcium ions in the mash water without unwanted anion (the negatively charged ones) partners. I wonder what its availability is. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:29:04 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: Compact Corny Fridge Thanks to Pat and Karl for defeating the Forces of Darkness, and getting the HBD back on-line! I'm in search of a compact refrigerator that can hold two cornies side-by-side. What I've been able to locate so far seem to be just a tad narrow. I assume that the door liner will need to be removed. For the most part, I use Spartanburg Challenger VI kegs (anyone know of a cheap source for the gray plastic relief valves for these?) If you have had success with one of these critters, please provide brand and model info. I'm having a vision that I'll add a top with a faucet tower and drip tray for a "built-in" look in the kitchen. Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Searching for brew info >From: mailto:jadsit at attbi.com > >I opened Google,...and in the case of Camden tablets, >one of those >quotations told >me that "One level teaspoon of sodium metabisulphite >= 1 Camden >tablet," so >I didn't even have to leave that page to find what I >wanted to know. >... > The key point is this: when you use your >computer, >you >could easily have an answer to some questions in less >time than it >takes to >type an email that asks the question. In less time >than it takes to >write, >"I don't know what a Camden tablet is..." you can >know what a Camden >tablet >is. Information and opinions will be given freely by anyone - but in all cases you must consider the source. Your sodium metabisulphite teaspoon-full would be equal to 12 Campden tablets. Each Campde tablet contains 1/2 gram of sulphite crystals. ===== Ron Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA New Orleans is the suberb of Metairie, LA www.hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:26:51 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: Corny Tank Plug Thread? Has anyone identified the female thread on a ball-lock corny's tank plug (connector)? Thanks! Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:52:23 -0400 From: Ken Pendergrass <kenp794 at earthlink.net> Subject: re: cloudy allgrain Kelly, I think your ferment is normal and as Jeff suggested it will settle out when fermentation is finished and will further settle out in secondary. I have seen this a number of times in my brews. My impression is that with a really high pitch rate there can be quite a bit of circulation generated in the vessel. Which will keep clumps of yeast cells suspended until fermentation slows. This is easy to see in glass. I don't like to use any type of clarifier for a number of reasons. First, I guess, is that I just don't expect or care if my ales have the clarity of a Bud. I don't think beer ever was that way prior to filtration. I feel chill haze to be an acceptable factor in a fine handcrafted, bottle conditioned ale. Ken In Ypsilanti which is really near Jeff. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:29:37 -0500 From: Bill Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Brew info John Adsit searched Google for "Camden" and was told "One level teaspoon of sodium metabisulphite = 1 Camden tablet," John - I know you're not interested in Campden Tablets per se but the information you were given on google is totally wrong. Campden tablets are said to contain about 0.44grams of sulfite and when one is added to a gallon of wine will give about 50ppm sulfur dioxide (From Vines to Wines by Jeff Cox ~ one of my favorite wine making books). Rather than depend on Jeff's information I weighed a few Campden Tablets down in my wine cellar. I found them to weigh 0.55 grams and according to the label they contain 55% sulfur dioxide. One of these Campden Tablets in a gallon of wine would produce about 80 ppm sulfur dioxide. (Because of differences in various sources and batches of Campden Tablets I use potassium metabisulfite for wine making and weigh precise amounts.) A teaspoonful of sodium metabisulphite will weigh at least 5 grams, depending on your spoon and how you measure. If you add one teaspoonful of sodium metabisulphite to a gallon of wine you'll end up with close to 900 ppm sulfur dioxide. This would ruin any wine and if you gave it a good sniff could induce an asthmatic attack. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:17:29 -0500 From: "Ryan and Shelly" <furstenau at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Has Anyone Tried the Guinness Draught in a Bottle Widget? I am very curious about the Guinness draught bottles that have the "rocket widget." My first question is, does Guinness actually inject this widget with Nitrogen and then put it into the bottle. If so, how do they keep the Nitrogen in the widget before the bottle is closed? One of my theories is that if they actually put Nitrogen in the widget, then by holding the widget upright the Nitrogen would stay in the widget because Nitrogen is lighter than air. (N2 molecular weight of 28, air approximate molecular weight of 28.84 (79% N2 at 28 molecular wt., 21% O2 at 32 molecular weight, disregard other gases in air as a very small percentage.) The second theory is that they don't put Nitrogen into the widget, but it simply holds air. After all, air is 79% Nitrogen. So, you actually have a 79% Nitrogen filled widget without even filling it with Nitrogen. Does anyone else have more information on this? Has anyone actually tried pulling one of these widgets out of the Guiness bottle and putting it in a bottle of their next home brew? If not, I plan to try this with my next batch. It just happens to be an Irish Stout and I will be bottling in another week or so. If anyone is interested, I will keep you posted. Ryan Omaha, NE USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:25:17 -0500 From: "Ryan and Shelly" <furstenau at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Guinness Widget problem solved? Have I just solved the riddle of the Guinness Widget? I just stumbled across the following website. http://www.wired.com/news/photo/0,1860,49020,00.html In my previous post, I had asked what was in the Guinness Widget. It appears from this website the the widget contains a "precise mix of gas (75% Nitrogen and 25% Oxygen). This is almost exactly the percentages found in pure air. (79% N2 and 21% O2) So, maybe the Guiness Widgets can be taken out of their bottle and put into a home brew bottle to create "draught home brew in a bottle." Ryan Omaha, NE USA Return to table of contents
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