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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: Wow!/Beer descriptions wanted ("Steve Alexander")
  methanol and the amount of a teaspoon Campden (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Adding Water After Fermentation ("Tony&Cheryl")
  Re: Orlando beer hunting (Nate Wahl)
  re: length of sparge/small(er) beers ("Steve Alexander")
  lag times...Weihestephan (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  2 row (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  re: HSA & PFO ("Steve Alexander")
  Steve's call for beer language (Pat Babcock)
  Oh, please... ("James Sploonta")
  Beer Can Chicken ("Dave Burley")
  re: Subject: Orlando Beer Hunting Tips (Kevin Marshall)
  Re: Virus proliferation... (Kelly Grigg)
  Re: Lager Lag Times (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Titanic Disaster Ale (Jeff Renner)
  Pump Motor Controller (jr4)
  Brewtek web site (Mike.Szwaya)
  Intro To Lagering ("Steve McCormick")
  RE: Campden tablets (Brian Lundeen)
  more on beer butt chicken ("Schrempp, Michael")
  Beer can chicken ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Re: Stupid brewer (Svlnroozls)


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:06:06 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Wow!/Beer descriptions wanted

James Sploonta writes ...

>What is it in my last post that Little Stevie could possibly have read as a
>personal attack on himw to cause such a response?
[...]
> you should seek some [...] professional help [...]

I said James mischaracterized/misread  my Klein comments and has only
provided non-specific criticism (mudslinging) of Klein without providing any
constructive suggestions or examples; that's an attack of  James' erroneous
and negative ideas.  In response James calls me names and suggests I need
"professional help" - that's a personal attack, perhaps even libel.

This issue appeared when I posted that some(most) HBers are IGNORANT of the
flavor impacts of HSA.  No insult was intended, but the term "ignorant"....
I just don't get it;  I am ignorant of many things, I make mistakes, I
misread things and misunderstand things ..... these are all matters of
record and fact.   When I apply these same terms to someone else tho' it's a
"personal attack".  I prefer to call things by their proper names -
ignorance is ignorance and misreading is misreading, errors are errors and
not the same as differences of opinion.   It's not sugar coated - but it
also isn't insulting to anyone except egotists who think they are above
error or criticism.

I hate to see the sort of negativity that the  'mud-throwers' like James
point at Klein's vocabulary, despite the laughable Klein-isms.  Klein is no
ideal, but at least he's trying something different.   It's a bit like
criticizing someone for trying a new mashing or lautering method which has
flaws.    If you like vague, watery, inadequate, conformist descriptions of
beer and the stuff you see too often on score sheets - then by all means
criticize every attempt to try something new.

====
Beer descriptions wanted:

I would really like to see some serious posted attempts at good descriptions
of widely available beers and some CONSTRUCTIVE comments for a change.  I
think it could be a useful topic for discussion.

M.Jackson on Sierra Nevada PA. -  "red bronze in color, very well balanced,
eminently drinkable, with a floral bouquet and smooth malty fruity palate
[....] a huge fresh floweriness of Cascade hops ... tremendous hops taste
 ... citric fruitiness ... in beautifully complex harmony".

My comments - I completely agree with the  "well balanced", "harmony" and
"floral bouquet" comments - balance is key to SNPA I think.  Yes there is
cascades clearly present, but I suspect all of us have tasted if not made
more over-the-top APAs so the description seems a little off (over
emphasized Cascades hoppiness by HB standards at least).   The dryness
(attenuation) of SNPA should be mentioned somewhere too - it has an impact
on body that I like - it tones down the heavy caramelly impact that appear
in so many APAs.  I'd really need to taste SNPA again before commenting on
the floral/fruity character - citric implies the hops origin to me.    Is it
really so estery - or is it hops flavor and hops esters MJ is describing as
"fruitiness" ?  Is red-bronze a good color description ?

Anyone else have  comment or care to post an original (or quoted) review ?
PG - do you have any ?

 -S




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:14:07 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: methanol and the amount of a teaspoon Campden

Hi,

Steve Alexander, <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> wrote in HBD 3960 about
the tiny amounts of methanol in beer "Some carbohydrates, pectins in
particular, have attached methyl groups".
Steve, what about the amylopectins ? (80 % of the starch in malt). 

"Paddock Wood Customer Service" <experts at paddockwood.com> writes 
>Folks thinking that 1 level teaspoon of metabisulphite powder is the
equivalent of 1 Camden tablet could be in for a nasty shock. 

"1/2 gram of Potassium Metabisulphite powder is the equivalent of 1 Campden
Tablet or 335 mg available free SO2. 1 Tsp. of Potassium Metabisulphite
powder weighs approximately 7 grams. >

What I measured, was: 1 level (Dutch) teaspoon contains 1.4 gram of water
(0.049 oz.) or 2.21 gram sodiummetabisulfite (0.078 oz.). I don't think
there is much difference in weight between sodium- or
potassiummetabisulfite. 
My conversion program says, a teaspoon is 4.93 ml (0.166 fl.oz.).
I think 1/2 gram of Potassium Metabisulphite powder will release 288 mg free
SO2 (0.01 oz.).

So, use grammes (or in case of emergency ounces :-) but no teaspoons
anymore.

Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:49:53 -0500
From: "Tony&Cheryl" <deadhead at ndak.net>
Subject: Adding Water After Fermentation

I'd like to brew 7 or 8 gallons of beer but only deal with fermenting 5
gallons.  Are there any problems I can expect with adding distilled water
after fermentation to a higher gravity batch to bring it down to a
pre-planned specific gravity?

Thanks.




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:09:17 -0400
From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Re: Orlando beer hunting

Richard and Collective!

I found a great place during a convention in Florida, the Cricketers
Arms, almost halfway between Orlando and Mickeyville; real Brit waiters,
Brit crowd, Brit food (bangers 'n mash!), very good nightly
entertainment, and BEER!  I mean 4 FRESH handpulls (Fullers ESB and
London Pride, Old Speckled Hen and Tetleys), 6 or 7 other
Brit/Scottish/Irish alea/lagers, some on nitro like Guinness.

We ended up there 4 nights of a 6 day trip!  Very friendly staff/crowd. 
Here's a link to the place. Had a blast there; NAYMMV, etc.... Enjoy
your trip!

http://www.cricketersarmspub.com/

Regards,
Nate Wahl / Oogie Wa Wa


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:18:22 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: length of sparge/small(er) beers

Chuck Dougherty writes ...

Fly sparge ...
>[...] the top of the grain bed is more thoroughly
>rinsed, and thus tannins are leached here first.

Probably true since you are introducing a lot of fresh hot water at the top.

>So I'm wondering--does the
>1 gallon limit apply only when one fly sparges, ....

I batch sparge using a recirc pump, which gives higher extraction
per unit water than fly sparge.

So maybe the fly overextracts because it's uneven or perhaps
the batch overextracts because it's more efficient.  I don't
know.

>[...]I have just started experimenting with batch
>sparging and am interested in determining the outer limits of this
technique.

Then do the experiment and tell us (please).  1gal/lb is just a guideline.

=========
A couple years ago I made beers from first runnings (diluted with water) vs
one made from the 1st batch sparge.  Same SG.   The 1st running beer was
darker, distinguishable and by triangle test maltier tasting.   Still in
informal
tastings some people liked some flavors of the 1st sparge beer. Perhaps
the 1st running beer was a little too simple and soft tasting by comparison.

It would be interesting to extend this to 2nd or 3rd batch sparge runnings
to profile the flavor and color changes.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:47:01 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: lag times...Weihestephan

Troy (Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>)

in making reference to long lag times, refers to
Wyeast 2124 as Wihestephan:

"I have realized lagers are a completely different animal.
 I have done 3
batches recently and have been amazed at the long lags I get
 with what seems
to be plenty of yeast. I have been using the famed
Weihenstephan 34/70
strain (Wyeast 2124) and have read that it is a "slow starter"
and indeed I..."

Are you not referring to the Bohemian Lager (2124) ?  While the #3068 is the
Weihestephan, that has an ale range (64-75F)?

Happy Brewing!


 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:54:38 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: 2 row

John;

  I just spoke to Bryan Bechard, NorthCountry Malt Supply yesterday, and he
pointed out that the diastatic power
of some 2 row is not as high as some others...and that, for instance, using
Maris Otter (Fawcetts) might not be as
good for brews that are higher in adjuncts (corn/rice) ...that one should
either use 2 row that has more enzymes, or
use 6 row...

 I don't ordinarily consult the malt spec  sheets much before planning a
brew...but think that I should...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:42:56 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: HSA & PFO

Robin Griller posts a lot of non-beer stuff about the size of that chip on
his shoulders.

>I am now convinced: in the future, no
>humour, no fun, no use of brains required for writing or reading.

But you couldn't muster a single argument to support your brewing
conclusions  ?

Let's start with the most clear-cut:  Robin states that Spencer's cardboard
nonenal flavor is not evidence of HSA.  I've pointed to research that states
it is only due to HSA.  So Robin, what is your evidence for a non-HSA
sources of  trans-2-nonenal in beer ?

Maybe Robin should also explain why he characterizes techniques presented by
Weihenstephan, Guinness and Spaten researchers as "megabrewery techniques".
What do you mean by that sort of innuendo Robin ?   The techniques you
dismiss are clearly relevant to the makers of some fabulous and stable
beers.
Certainly colorful and non-cr*ppy ones too.

Robin dismisses findings by researchers as 'only applicable in the lab' then
dismisses commercial methods advocated even by the finest commercial
breweries as  'for megabreweries ' and for making 'colorless flavorless
cr*p'.  Research and practical experience don't count - so it will be
interesting to see what Robin considers evidence (assuming he ever gets
around to supporting his statements).

One more - Robin asks why don't commercial breweries bottle condition like
HBers ?  Some certainly do when it fits the style, and it does improve
flavor stability but the public and even HBers largely want clear beer that
doesn't taste of residual yeast.   More to the point - why do HBers use
yeast separation techniques, gelatin and even filters to seek a yeast-free
beer ?  'Cause we prefer it that way.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:56:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Steve's call for beer language

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Steve A. reminds us of Jackson's SNP description:

> M.Jackson on Sierra Nevada PA. - "red bronze in color, very
> well balanced, eminently drinkable, with a floral bouquet
> and smooth malty fruity palate [....] a huge fresh
> floweriness of Cascade hops ... tremendous hops taste ...
> citric fruitiness ... in beautifully complex harmony".

I'm depending on my flavor memory since I haven't had an SNPA in
quite a while, but Jackson's description includes flavor
components I pick up in SNPA: the fruity/malty palate, the
citrus cascade and associated cascade aroma (strikes me as being
like a conifer - somewhat like old pine needles that have lost
mot of their oils?). He does a good job, in my opinion, with
associating the flavors with "down to earth", non-technical
terms that are fairly easily understood, meeting the first of
Steve's criteria for a useful descriptive language. Though I
love SNPA, I have to say that I don't consider it to be
particularly well balanced, per se, but I, too find it
eminently drikable.

Commendable call to arms, Steve. When I decided I was done
reacting to the Klein calendar, I penned a note similar calling
for descriptions, but couldn't quite put my perspective into
words, so I dumped it. 

My TRUE frustration with Klein was discovered in reading James'
ongoing tirade - more the wanton mutilation of concepts than the
choice of descriptive words; but your comments made in response
to one of my notes really did hit home: I wholeheartedly agree
that there is room for improvement in our descriptive language.
I believe the BJCP's style guidelines are excellent, and do not
wish to disparage them or anyone involved with their creation -
their's is a labor of love with little more reward than seeing
the finished product! But I gently suggest, as I believe Steve
has, that along with the technical descriptors well suited to
those of use who have been "around" for a while, we also develop
and incorporate a more pedestrian set of descriptors for
reference when filling in score sheets. Maybe even a section in
the Study Guide to instruct in the "softer" language. I'd bet
that there is even a similar animal that could be harvested for
modification at some wine site or sommelier site? 

What say y'all? Worth doing? I'd even be willing to volunteer
for such a project. Would the BJCP be interested in pursuing
something like this for incorporation into the judging
standards?

Further thoughts?

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:01:58 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Oh, please...

Steve, steve, steve. That's a very interesting brush you paint your world 
with a very interesting brush. They must have made it from Oz' horse of a 
differnt color, as it shift its spectrum to suit your perspective, hey? Let 
me refresh your memory from your purportedly innocuous post:

>I find it frustrating that such simple ideas could be misunderstood by
>someone with basic reading skills.

>Since you are the expert James (I'm certain you wouldn't criticize Klein
>unless you could do much better)

>Shouldn't be too hard for a "beire_god".

If you do not want "in-kind" responses, then simply take my advice: pause, 
review before sending your cheerful banter across the internet. Read it from 
the perspective of your intended victim, er, I mean, audience. Think you're 
going to piss them off (as you do most people you "discuss" with on the 
HBD)? THink you're going aft3er the perceived personality rather than the 
issue (as you appear to be doing constantly in your "discussions" on the 
HBD)? Rewrite. Otherwise, a careful reader can see your insecurities. So, 
might I suggest, can one with basic reading skills.

Again, I never claimed to be an expert; never claimed to even have the 
slightest ounce of talent in the realm of beer description. Merely providing 
a service: you had told Mr. B in one of your replies to him that you had 
never read anything Klein had written (so you really shouldn't have 
commented, hey, Steve?), and my goal was to provide you with enough 
information to be conversant in Klein. I b'lieve I've done that.

The "take pause" part is good advice for all of us - me included (but I just 
couldn't let his "libel" BS lay. Nothing I've written here injures his 
reputation. He has made his own.).

Me? I'm walking away for a while so that stevie can let this incident fade 
from his memory. I'll return for hopefully more pleasant conversation once 
(a) I've cooled my jets and (b) once stevie seems to have settled down on 
the issue. And, please, steve, stop writing me. Put what you will in the 
Digest; disparage my good name, claim to be the victim to your heart's 
content - I've stopped reading it for the time being and will only reply if 
I'm cc'ed. So, hint, hint: don't.

James Sploonta



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:38:21 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Beer Can Chicken

Brewsters:

I am no expert, but I'm sure Bill Shockley did not intentionally omit the
fact that when making beer can chicken that the beer cans should be empty or
at least open!  {8^)

Also, I can't help but wonder what effect the scorched paint from the can
has on the overall taste. Maybe that's why you need to use a really strong
tasting rub or maybe the taste is part of the character.

An original recipe can be found in "Beer Can Chicken: And 74 Other Offbeat
Recipes for the Grill" by Steven Raichlen. "Wine Spectator" June 30, 2002
mentioned it in their article "Smoke and Spice" pp. 23 -.27

His "Basic Barbecue Sauce"  adapted by Wine Spectator

2 cups Ketchup
1/4 cup cider vinegar
1/4 cup Worcestershire Sauce
1/4 cup firmly packed brown sugar
2 Tablespoons Molasses
2 Tablespoons Dijon Mustard
1 1/2 tablespoons Tobasco
1 tablespoon chili powder
2 teaspoons liquid smoke
1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper

Boil for 15 minutes or so until dark, thick and rich and adjust seasonings.

Now, as we all know, recipes for barbecue sauce and dry rubs are regional in
the US ( and cause for much discussion - is the best really Memphis or
Kansas City or...??) and here in South Carolina some areas do not use tomato
sauce at all, just mustard and sweet and sour and hot.

Of course, here in South Carolina as in other parts of the South, "barbecue"
is a noun as well as a verb. We'd say "Let's go get some barbecue"

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley
Anderson, South Carolina
"Beautiful Places, Smiling Faces"




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Marshall <kcmarshall at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Subject: Orlando Beer Hunting Tips

There is a brew pub at the Disney Boardwalk resort
area.  IIRC, its called Great River/Big
River/Somekinda River.  I believe that you can
walk/take a ferry from Epcot to the Boardwalk.  I'm
not gonna tell you that the beer is home-brew quality
(the brewpub is part of a chain) but it is decent.  A
good friend used to be the brewmaster there so I got
to sample the full line.

I also had a Guiness at Wolfgang Puck's in the
Downtown Disney entertainment area, so you've got that
as a fallback.

Good luck; I used to live south and east of Orlando. 
Found it to be a wasteland for beer.  Wish I had known
about homebrew back then...

Kevin
St. Paul, MN



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:10:01 -0500
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: Virus proliferation...

Another good reason not to use Windows....
Linux is fun to play with while drinking homebrew...AND, I think I've found
programs for beer calculations that will run on it too....

Give it a try, and help to curb virii. Or, at the very least, stop using
MS Outlook...you can cut down on the spread of them by using other less
susceptible email clients...try www.eudora.com

HTH,

Kelly

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 12:12:34AM -0400, after pounding the keys randomly, 
Pat Babcock came up with....
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
> Subject: Virus proliferation...
> 
<snip>
> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! If you use a flavor of Windows - even if you
> believe your machine is clean - please take a moment now to check your PC
> for viruses (if you're on an administered and/or shared PC, have the
> administrator do so). More information and patches for Windows prodyucts,
> as well as detection and removal instructions can be found at
> http://www.ku.edu/~acs/virus/viruses/klez.shtml. Norton and McAfee users
> should go to the related website (www.symantec.com or www.mcafee.com) to
> download and install the most current virus definitions on a regular
> basis!
> 
> The net is ours to use or abuse, folks, but it isn't much fun
> when nothing can move through it. Please use the internet
> responsibly...


- ------------------

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.

- ------------------


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:24:06 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Lager Lag Times

Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us> is concerned in San Mateo,CA that 
Tobias wrote:

>"A good lager yeast pitched at cold temperature should start fermenting
>after 12-18 hours."

but

>The first batch I brewed I had less than adequate amounts of yeast 
>... and I had a 52 hour lag ... Another batch (German Pils) I 
>stepped up to one gallon, chilled and poured off the spent wort and 
>added another 6 oz. of yeast slurry from a previous batch. I fed it 
>a quart of wort the day before the brew to get it going again. Temp 
>of starter and the 8 gals of wort at time of pitching were both 50F. 
>I then dropped it down to 46F but still had a 25hour lag time...
>
>Is this pretty common? Is it a characteristic of this yeast? Also, what
>would be a fast - all things perfect - lag time for this strain? I really
>don't think even if I dumped in a pint of yeast slurry it would go very
>quickly... Does anyone have any experience with this strain?

It is typical in my experience with lager yeasts.  You really need an 
ounce of yeast solids (like putty or peanut butter consistency) per 
gallon of wort to get a really fast, rocking fermentation, and even 
then, I don't think I see white kraeusen before 24 hours or so, and 
high kraeusen a day or day and a half later.

This means for me that even with the yeast from a gallon of starter 
for my eight gallon batch, things often get off to a bit slower start 
 - as long as you mention or longer if I've just pitched a White Labs 
tube straight in.  But they always seem to turn out well, even with a 
worrying slow start.

I do better with cropped yeast, but with lagers, I don't often 
serially brew more than two brews.  A good idea is to have a friend 
whose techniques you trust with whom you can trade cropped yeast.

I think that Tobias may have meant that the yeast is fermenting even 
though you don't see evidence of it on the surface.  After all, 
before you get bubbles showing, the wort has to reach CO2 saturation. 
That will take time.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:02:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Titanic Disaster Ale

John Sarette <j2saret at yahoo.com> of Duluth Mn swears

>I don't care how well this beer turns out I'm not
>making it this way again. ... It took me five (5!)
>hours to mash!$# at !!!?  Any ideas why?  does it in fact
>take  the enzymes.6 row malt to convert corn meal?
>should I use less corn meal for the amount of malt I
>am able to use.


I assume this was for a mini-mash, and that you used some extract.

I guess my first question is how did you determine how long to mash? 
Did you do an iodine test?  If so, were you checking only the liquid 
or did you test the solids?  They will continue to show positive for 
starch, but that's not what you should look for.  I would think that 
a mash of cooked cereal and 2-row would convert in under an hour.

Perhaps if the beer turns out well and you want to reproduce it, 
flaked maize (no cooking) would work better.  Or you could go to 
all-grain.

Let us know how the beer turns out.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:15:44 -0400
From: jr4 at mindspring.com
Subject: Pump Motor Controller


Hi All,
First time poster with some info to pass along.
I have a March pump on a RIMS system with a burner. After running full
speed and regulating the outflow, I decided to control the speed of the pump
instead. Talked to a gearhead at March pump and he said the only concern was
overheating. He added that unless I was running the pump in excess of 8-10
hours continuously, I shouldn't have a problem. If the pump does O/H then the
thermal switch would trip and protect the motor. 
The key to controlling is using a fan motor controller and not a dimmer or
light rheostat.
I have a Leviton 5amp controller(Home Depot)and it works great.
Just wanted to pass this along...
Cheers
Jon
Atlanta




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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:30:13 -0700
From: Mike.Szwaya at clark.wa.gov
Subject: Brewtek web site


Hi

I'm having a problem getting to Brewtek's website and was wondering if
anyone else was having the same problem.  Every link I go to at
www.brewtek.com automatically jumps me over to the Brewers Resources online
store.

Any ideas on why this is happening and how to stop it?

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Szwaya
Portland, OR
mailto: mike.szwaya at clark.wa.gov



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:40:50 -0400
From: "Steve McCormick" <toprowseat at hotmail.com>
Subject: Intro To Lagering

I've been homebrewing for a while now, grain/extract
"intermediate" brewing.... Many, many Ales have passed
through my carboys (some of them really good) but I
just haven't quite hit upon the taste I'm looking for.

I'd like to try some Lagers but I'm not exactly sure
where to begin.  I've got an old fridge in my basement
that's not being used, but I'm not sure how to control
the temperature accurately enough for fermentation.

Most recipes I see say start out at X degrees F and then
lower it over the course of a week or so down to Y (usually
around 30 degrees)... How exact do I need to be?  I'm
usually not a breworryer... but I don't want to ruin a
batch if I don't need to...

What type of equipment do you folks use for summer lagering?
How do I control the temp?  Any other tips for a first-time
lagering effort?



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:03:15 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Campden tablets 


Dave Burley takes a moment away from viewing large breasts to write:

> Randy uses 3 campden tablets in 5 gallons of brew to remove 
> any chloramines in his brew water.
> 
>  Waaay too much sulfite in my opinion. I suspect the maximum 
> chloramine content in municipal water is on the order of a 
> part per million, if that, by the time it gets to your house 
> - ask your water supplier for treatment details. 1 Campden 
> tablet in a US gallon is nearly 100 ppm SO2 as I recall.

Whether this is overkill or not for the stated purpose of removing
chloramines, I won't hazard a guess.

In terms of introducing too much SO2, I would disagree. Assuming your IIRC
is correct (it sounds right, but like Kirk I'm too lazy to research it on
the net ;-)) that gives a level of 60 ppm total SO2 in the 5 gallons. Not a
horrific amount by winemaking standards, not even a useful amount given beer
pH for achieving suitable molecular SO2 levels for spoilage protection
(which of course is not why we use SO2). We (at least those of us who do not
view serious scientific research as the words of the devil) use it to
prevent MBO from producing those staling precursors which cause our beer to
prematurely age (YMMV, may not necessarily apply to those who can drink a
keg up in two weeks). For that use, the amount seems reasonable, perhaps
even a bit on the shy side. Once your done the boil and fermentation, you
won't notice any sulfites. Trust me, I do this all the time now. After
tasting the horrible cloying caramelness that developed in an attempt early
in my brewing career at an Altbier (rich in those highly susceptible
melanoidins), I can say I am quite willing to try any technique that will
keep that from happening again. 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:24:48 -0700
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: more on beer butt chicken

The July 2000 issue of Cooks Illustrated magazine had a number of recipes
for grilled chicken and did quite a write up on the beer can method. I don't
remember the specifics, but I made this once and it turned out great. By the
way, I highly recommend this magazine to any kitchen geeks out there. The
magazine's style is to take a "scientific" approach to cooking. They try a
bunch of different ways to cook a thing, then report on the results. No
affiliation, just a satisfied subscriber. Their website is
cooksillustrated.com

Mike Schrempp


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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:35:45 -0400
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: Beer can chicken

NPR's version is old news, Mr. Food did it in 1998: 

http://www.wpta.com/mrfood/recipes/06_22_98.htm



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:15:23 EDT
From: Svlnroozls at aol.com
Subject: Re: Stupid brewer

Hmm...sounds familiar.  I don't feel so bad now about my porter shower.  I 
only tripped open a 1.5" butterfly valve.  At least the solution to my 
problem was quick and obvious.  I do know another guy who took off a 
butterfly valve on a full tank.  He managed to wrestle it back on.  I was 
fine after soaking my head and a change of coveralls.  I'm delighted at 
reading your post, Mr. Gump.  Got a chuckle out of it, to be sure.  I'm glad 
to see this episode hasn't dampened (*wince*) your spirits.

C.T. Davis
Los Anguhleez, CA

In a message dated 6/10/02 9:11:35 PM, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< Stupid Brewer Tricks-Gump Gets The Prize!

     OK....the usual bleatings and verbal abuse occur...."He's a stupid
brewer.." "He has stupid ideas, manners, spelling, etc.."
     But Gump WINS! I got you all beat!

     Today, after kegging up the last 3 or 4 kegs of Hefe-Weizen from
Serving Tank Four, I set the hoses and pump up for a CIP, and started
filling the vessel with 180 F H2O for a PBW CIP.... >>


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