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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Universal Temp Controller (Luke Enriquez)
  RE: Adding water after fermentation (KC Jones)
  Orlando beer search ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Adding Water after Fx (Ray Daniels)
  Re: Orlando beer hunting ("Chad Gould")
  Re: Adding Water After Fermentation (h.stearns.laseur)
  Adding distilled water ("Jim")
  Re: Adding Water After Fermentation (Jeff Renner)
  re: Intro To Lagering (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  Dutch teaspoon, on the fly sparging, sulfites in beer ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Beer Can Chicken (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Intro To Lagering (Jeff Renner)
  Adding Water/Campden tablets (AJ)
  Lag Time (Althelion)
  Pump Motor Controller & Brewtek web site (Tony Verhulst)
  Temperature control during lagering ("Brian Schar")
  AHA in Dallas-hotel change but don't worry ("Dan Dewberry")
  Re: lag times...Weihestephan (Jeff Renner)
  Need help on Saaz growing ("Schrempp, Michael")
  Amish Cream Separator = Fermentator? (Don Lake)
  Orlando Beer Hunting Tips (Richard Foote)
  cap caca report (carlos benitez)
  RE: Steve's call for beer language (Ronald La Borde)
  RE: Fusels (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Adding Water After Fermentation ("Frank J. Russo")
  A Call to Arms:  Great Idea (Troy Hager)
  Need another mag drive pump ("Gary Smith")


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 00:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Luke Enriquez <vk3em at yahoo.com>
Subject: Universal Temp Controller

Hi People,

Some of you who are electronics buffs as well as
homebrewers might be interested in a project I'm
working on. 

On finding my keg of wheat beer frozen, I decided I
needed something to replace thermostats. With an Atmel
AVR microcontroller, some hardware, a relay and a
temperature sensor, I'm solved my problem. 

Is does require some experience with electronics to
build, and with my time constraits, I dont plan to
release it as a kit. However, there may be others on
the mailing list who have similar interests, and I
will add to the support website as times permits.

It's not bug free yet, but it does work with my
fridge, now that I've replaced the thermostate with a
relay potted in hot melt glue (for water proofing).

The controller is universal in the sense that it will
control either heaters or coolers, and has a flexible
setup system to accomodate many combinations of
hardware. All parts used in the project are available
from places like Farnell, Digikey, etc.

I've designed some sensor checking into the code as
well, so if your sensor of sensor cable fails, the
relay turns off.

As always, comments are welcome.

Next stage is to average the temperature reported by
two sensors, and use it to sound a buzzer when my mash
tun falls outside a specific temperature range.

The URL is 

http://www.geocities.com/vk3em/avr-tempc/avr-temp.htm

If you get an error message, geocities has probably
shut the site down for a bit because of excessive data
transfer. Nothing comes for free I suppose!

Cheers
Luke




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:49:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: KC Jones <beerbeer95648 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Adding water after fermentation

Tony and Cheryl,

The main concern with cutting down your gravity with
distilled water after fermentation is an increase in
O2 levels.  If you are using bottled distilled water
it is important to note that the plastic bottles don't
give much protection against the ingress of O2.  To
reach a low enough O2 level in your liquor, you would
be best boiling your cutting liquor, followed by a
good scrubbing with an inert gas.  It is then useful
to carbonating it before adding it to your beer.  This
is assuming you use cornies.  The reason for
carbonation is that is restricts the re-dissolving of
any O2 which may have made it into your keg, while
inhibiting aerobic bacteria. If you don't use cornies,
then it would still be advisable to boil your water
sufficiently before cutting.  What residual O2 there
is will be taken up given a sufficient amount of yeast
is left in your beer. 
KC Sare
Heriot-Watt
Edinburgh 



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:47:18 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Orlando beer search

Rick asks about beer destinations in Orlando. Assuming you're flying into
Orlando, you can start at the airport. Shipyard has a brewpub in the airport.
Ron Raike is the brewer (a great homebrewer in another incarnation, his old
ales just swept 1st, 2nd, & 3rd at the recent Sunshine Challenge), the stout
is very good. There is a brewpub at Disney called Big River, I still haven't
gotten there as I get to Orlando very often and seem to avoid Ratland when I
do. Reports say the beer is ok, it's part of a chain based in Tenn (I think).
Until recently, I'd have recommended Big Belly's, but they just stopped
brewing. The brewer, Tom Moench, has started contract brewing an interesting
toasted coconut porter at Shipyard. Don't know where to find it, but it should
be available at some bars by now.

If you're able or willing to travel west to Tampa (approx 1 1/2 hrs), you can
find some excellent beers (and good food) at Tampa Bay Brewing in the Ybor
City area (touristy, lots of small trendy shops, clubs, etc). There is a good
beer bar/beer shop called Grand Cru. Since the bottle law was changed, we've
finally started getting more beer choice in FL - including a lot of Belgian
beer. Since you've got your own negative beer laws in GA (6% limit, I
believe?) you'll probably find some interesting beers you can't get at home.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL






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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:19:29 -0500
From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Adding Water after Fx

Tony (or Cheryl) asks:

"I'd like to brew 7 or 8 gallons of beer but only deal with fermenting 5 
gallons. Are there any problems I can expect with adding distilled water 
after fermentation to a higher gravity batch to bring it down to a
pre-planned specific gravity?"

Yes, there are problems you can expect.  Water (yes, even distilled water) 
contains air, so you'll oxygenate the heck out of your beer and it will 
develop papery, cardboardy and even waxy flavors very quickly.

What you need for this purpose is water that is deaerated . . . but 
deaerating isn't trivial. You can do it by first boiling the water (drives 
off a good bit of O2) then kegging it and bubbling PURE CO2 (or nitrogen) 
through it to strip out the rest of the O2 (while venting to prevent 
buildup of head pressure and blowoff the removed O2).

Translating microbrewery experience (we ran a story on this in The New 
Brewer last year) to homebrew scale, you might expect to use one-third of a 
pound of CO2 over a couple hours to accomplish this IF you are using a 
carbonating stone to release the CO2---more otherwise.  At this point you 
should check the dissolved oxygen (DO) level to ensure that it is below 50 
parts per billion before blending it with your beer.

The biggest problem with this system for a homebrewer is that beverage 
grade CO2 isn't pure and usually contains enough oxygen to cause 
problems.  Furthermore, to check your results, you'll need a DO test 
method.  An outfit named Hach makes colorimetric devices for this that may 
be reasonably priced (Try http://www.hach.com/Parms/p_do.htm), but that's a 
long way to go for a couple extra gallons of beer.

Finally high gravity brewing does yield a slightly different flavor profile 
in the final beer: increased esters for sure and probably some other things 
I'm forgetting.  Since this is the way that Bud, Miller and Coors make 
beer, the effects are well documented in the brewing literature.  I doubt 
you or I would notice in a homebrewed beer, but the big guys worry about 
this due to product consistency.

Overall, it would be lots easier to buy a bigger fermenter and dilute after 
boil but before fermentation.

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy and The New Brewer
[197.8, 264.2] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:45:21 -0400
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Orlando beer hunting

> Good luck; I used to live south and east of Orlando.
> Found it to be a wasteland for beer.  Wish I had known
> about homebrew back then...

One of the only real beer places I know in Orlando (aside from the
already-mentioned Cricketer's, which is excellent) is in the Orlando airport
itself! It's a microbrewpub called Shipyard Brewing Company. I haven't been
in a while, but I remember the beers being very good.
http://www.shipyard.com/

Other than that and Cricketers, nothing really amazing that I know of. There
are some places with a decent selection of beer that are good fallbacks
(like the Ale House chain) but compared to Tampa I haven't found a lot of
places.




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:48:47 -0500
From: h.stearns.laseur at exxonmobil.com
Subject: Re: Adding Water After Fermentation


If you add water your fermentation will continue, albeit at a slow pace. By
adding water, you have just added more living room for those precious
little yeast cells to multiply in. You also have to have nutrients in your
batch to continue until one of several things limit the reaction, ie. water
(as in space),  nutrients for food, or temperature. Usually we have more
nutrients than space available, and the space is what typically limits
fermentation. So ... add water and then cool the batch down to stop
fermentation, otherwise your ABV will get higher.





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:51:16 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Adding distilled water

Tony of Tony & Cheryl asked if there would be a problem with adding
distilled water after fermentation of a high gravity beer to bring the beer
down to a specific gravity.
Miller Brewing has been doing a similar thing in their smaller breweries for
years.  They brew a high gravity beer and then bring it down to a lower
gravity by adding club soda.  This enables them to produce more beer at
their smaller facilities.
Another note.  I don't know when the American Homebrewers Association is
planning on informing their membership that is planning on attending the
National Conference that there has been a change in hotels.  If you had a
reservation at the Wilson World Hotel, you no longer have one.  The hotel
has been purchased by the Radisson Hotel chain and has been closed for
renovations.  If you had reservations at the Wilson World they have been
changed and are now at the Holiday Inn Select.  Just next door to the closed
Wilson World.  The $59.00 rate is still in effect.  You can call and
re-confirm your reservations 12 June after 5:00PM.  For more information you
can go to www.beertown.org and click on "Big Texas Toast".

Hope to see you there,
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:53:04 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Adding Water After Fermentation

"Tony&Cheryl" <deadhead at ndak.net> collectively ask:

>I'd like to brew 7 or 8 gallons of beer but only deal with fermenting 5
>gallons.  Are there any problems I can expect with adding distilled water
>after fermentation to a higher gravity batch to bring it down to a
>pre-planned specific gravity?

This is what big breweries do all the time.  It means you can 
increase your brewery capacity at virtually no cost.  There are some 
caveats, however, which the big breweries have do loads of research 
on.  I imagine Steve Alexander can give more technical details, but 
the main issues are:

1)  You will get lower hop utilization with higher gravity boils. 
Easy to correct for.

2)  Higher gravity fermentations have different byproducts than lower 
ones, in particular, higher levels of fusel alcohols and esters. 
These can be minimized by lower fermentation temperatures and by 
playing around with yeast pitching rates and oxygenation of the wort, 
but I can't remember how.  Steve?

3)  It is very important not to introduce oxygen into the finished 
beer when diluting it.  You should probably boil the distilled water 
in an open container to drive off dissolved O2, then seal it and let 
it cool to the temperature of the beer.  Then add it with no 
splashing.  It would be beneficial to siphon it, and a CO2 blanket 
never hurts when transferring beer, even without diluting it.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:08:19 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: re: Intro To Lagering

Steve McCormick writes:
>I've been homebrewing for a while now, grain/extract
>"intermediate" brewing....
>I'd like to try some Lagers but I'm not exactly sure
>where to begin.
>Most recipes I see say start out at X degrees F and then
>lower it over the course of a week or so down to Y (usually
>around 30 degrees)... How exact do I need to be?  
>What type of equipment do you folks use for summer lagering?
>How do I control the temp?

Steve, these are all really good questions and are the same
ones most Hbers ask when getting started doing lagers.
I've done a few lagers and find that the best piece of equipment
is a small chest freezer to use as a lagering compartment.
They are cheap (look in the paper and be patient) and are very
easy to control the temp.  Your spare fridge will also work just
fine as long as you can get the temp of the main compartment
down to 32-33 degrees F.  Some fridges just won't do that.  
The best controller is the Ranco ETC111000.  I got one last 
week at Johnstone Supply for $40.  It has a digital read out and 
the differential can be adjusted easily.  When dialing down the 
temp after primary fermentation it's as easy as pushing a few 
buttons and only takes about 15 seconds.  Just plug the cont-
roller into the wall receptacle and plug the freezer into the cont-
roller.  The controller is now in charge of turning the freezer on 
and off.

Here's my procedure when doing lagers.  I cool my wort to lager
primary temp before pitching the yeast.  Some Hbers pitch warm
and then cool the wort.  I prefer to cool the wort first.  I keep my 
yeast a few degrees cooler than the temp of the wort at pitching 
time.  If the wort is 50F, I try to keep the yeast at 48F.  That way 
when it hits the "warmer" wort it's happy.  Happy yeast is very 
important.  The freezer is set to its coldest setting and the temp 
controller set at 46F.  The temp controller is set to a 4F differential.
The freezer will cool until it reaches 46F and then shut off until it 
warms up to 50F.  The temp controller will then turn the freezer 
back on and the cycle keeps going.  

When primary fermentation is complete (7-10 days) I rack into a
a secondary and place it back in the freezer.  Every morning I 
reduce the temp on the controller by 2F until I reach 32-33F.  I 
try to keep it there for 4 weeks.  That part is the hardest.  I want 
to taste the beer!!!  That might be the most difficult thing about 
going from ales to lagers is the time you have to wait.  It's worth
it though.

The temps I discuss are only examples and can be very different
from brewer to brewer.  The different temps will give you different 
flavor characteristics.  Being exact is not that important.  If you 
ferment at somewhere between 45Fand 55F, you should produce
a good lager.  If you reduce the freezer temp during lagering by 1F
to 4F per day you should be fine.  RDWHAHB!!!

We make the beer we drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8, 103.6 Rennerian)




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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:32:05 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Dutch teaspoon, on the fly sparging, sulfites in beer

Brewsters:

Hans Aikema says his Dutch teaspoon holds only 1.4 grams of water ( or about
1.5 mls). I've had  a goodly amount of Dutch coffee using those tiny
teaspoons ( called coffee spoons in Britain), but  a standard teaspoon
almost world wide now is 5 mls as defined via the medical profession.  5 mls
is what we normally mean when we say a "teaspoon" of an elixir should be
taken twice a day and when we discuss homebrewing.

Looking at Paddock Woods' numbers and Hans' numbers:  5 ml teaspoon holds 7
grams of Kmeta the ratio is 1.4 and  1.5 ml Dutch teaspoon holds 2.21 grams
of K meta ratio is 1.47 so these ratios check close enough for government
work.
- -----------------------
Al Korzonas once commented some years ago on the British term for continuous
sparging after a trip he made to the UK.  He remarked that the Brits used
the term "fly sparging" for what we normally do with fixed bed, continuous
sparging. This term has worked its way into the HBD vernacular, but it has
always annoyed me a little whenever I see the term "fly sparging" used here
in the HBD, as I doubt it is correct usage.

The British use the term "on the fly" in other areas ( such as mass
spectrometry)  to describe a continuous process. I wonder if Al
misunderstood or whoever used that term with him wasn't up to speed?

Can anyone confirm or deny this usage in the British
brewing industry?
- -----------------------
Brian Lundeen comments on the use of Kmeta in beer and my concern that 60
ppm of SO2 is waaay too much to accomplish the removal of 1 ppm of
chloramines from the water ( which was the context of my comment) and goes
on to say that by wine standards 60 ppm isn't so bad.

Brian uses Kmeta as an antioxidant to make up for his handling techniques, I
guess.  I still think 60 ppm is waaay too much even for this usage, with
perhaps 1 or 2 ppm more like it, if you insist on using it, when you
consider the concentration of the various aldehydes and stuff in beer and
the solubility of oxygen.

Bear in mind two things 1) You drink a lot more beer than you do wine at a
given sitting ( at least I do) , so your ingestion of total sulfite will be
higher than is normal for wine and your drinking buddies ( who may be
allergic) won't be expecting this in your beer unless you tell them  2) The
British banned sulfites from beer ( but in wine it is still legal) many
decades ago.

I encourage Brian and others to try sound handling techniques 1) boil with
the lid partially on, 2) do not filter hops from the hot wort in the air 2)
avoid splashing wort and beer - keep the transfer tube under the surface  3)
add oxygen to cold wort only after you have added the yeast  4) fill your
cornies with water and push out the water with CO2 to get no oxygen in the
cornie before you fill it with beer.

Try these techniques and you will not have a problem with stale or oxidized
beer and will have no need for sulfites in beer.


Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:25:14 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beer Can Chicken

"Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> wrote from Anderson, SC:

>I am no expert, but I'm sure Bill Shockley did not intentionally omit the
>fact that when making beer can chicken that the beer cans should be empty or
>at least open!  {8^)

Opened but not empty.  The boiling beer keeps the inside of the bird moist.

>Also, I can't help but wonder what effect the scorched paint from the can
>has on the overall taste. Maybe that's why you need to use a really strong
>tasting rub or maybe the taste is part of the character.

The interviewee on NPR said that "they" had researched this question. 
The paint is fired onto the cans at 800 degrees F, and the grill is 
no more than 350F.  Of course, this ignores the effect of radiant 
heat from the coals.  But the instructions are explicit to not grill 
over the coals.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:47:34 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Intro To Lagering

"Steve McCormick" <toprowseat at hotmail.com> wants to start brewing
lagers and asks:

>What type of equipment do you folks use for summer lagering?
>How do I control the temp?  Any other tips for a first-time
>lagering effort?

Lagers are very rewarding.  Your old fridge will work great with an
external thermostat or controller such as
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/AB1605000/showdetl.cfm?
&User_ID=84584&St=2075&St2=59203485&St3=-37854398&DS_ID=2&Product_ID=161&DID=7.

(you'll have to cut and paste the URL)

Before getting a chest freezer and an external controller, I used a
fridge with a timer that turned it on perhaps a half hour four times
a day for the 48-50F fermentation.  Then I removed the timer and just
set it to a very cold setting for the 32F lagering.  It worked fine
once I found the correct timer setting.

Good luck.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:17:24 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Adding Water/Campden tablets

Adding water to a fermented high gravity wort is obtaining free beer 
from the kitchen tap in my opinion and I plan to do it on almost every 
brew but usually wind up tasting the ferment before hand and deciding 
I'm not going to mess with this stuff by diluting it. Anyway, there are 
a couple of things to think about. One is the flavor effects of 
fermenting high gravity worts. There is a ton of material to be found on 
this subject because all the big boys do it to minimize capital costs 
(200 barrel fermenter yields 250 bbl of beer.....). Second is oxygen and 
the third is bugs. The solution to both of these problems is to boil and 
cool the water from whatever source (i.e. including deionized water) 
befor adding it to the fermented beer. Boiling both kills bacteria and 
drives out dissolved oxygen. Clearly the boiled water should be cooled 
in a closed, nearly full container to both to prevent bacteria and 
spores from falling into it and to limit air access to it. Because 
you'll never get all the O2 out it is best to add the treated water 
while there is still some yeast activity going on. A good time is after 
the kreuzen falls as the room occupied by the kreuzen cap is now 
available for the extra water.

Needless to say, the water should be free of chlorine and chloramine. 
Boiling will remove the former and Campden tablets the latter. One 
Campden tablet per 20 gallons of treated water is sufficient to take 
care of 3 mg/L chlorine as chloramine and, with respect to another post, 
this is a typical amount found in municipal supplies. CAmpden tablets 
will also help scavenge any residual dissolved oxygen.




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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:31:06 EDT
From: Althelion at aol.com
Subject: Lag Time

>From my experience, the three factors that most directly impact the length of 
lag time are quantity of yeast, temperature, and aeration. This assumes that 
the yeast is in good shape to begin with. My standard procedure now is to 
make up a 1000 ml starter and use two Wyeast smack packs or White Labs vials. 
Yes, it does cost a few extra bucks. I just don't have the time to step up a 
yeast starter. My aeration procedure includes an aquarium air pump, filter 
and airstone. I try to get at least 5 minutes of air pumped into the carboy. 
Depending on the style of beer, I'll have to stop once or twice to let the 
foam go down. (It seems that the hoppier the beer, the more foam). As for 
temperature, lagers are always going to lag longer than ales because of the 
colder temperatures. I'd rather wait a little bit than start a lager 
fermenting at a too warm temperature.

Just brewed a Bavarian Wheat beer using the above method with Wyeast 3068. 
Pitched at 10 pm Saturday night (during the 3rd period of the 6 period OT 
Wings victory - bringing the Stanley Cup back where it belongs). Noticeable 
signs of fermentation began before 7:30 am when I checked it - 9.5 hours 
after I pitched. The temperature in the room was a cool 65 F. - probably a 
little too cool for a Weizen but not by that much. At this point, 3.5 days 
later, all is well. My only decision is whether to put the batch into 
secondary or just bottle the cloudy brew up after it finishes its primary. 
I'm kinda leanin' toward the bottling sans secondary. Seems more authentic.

Al Pearlstein
Commerce Township, Michigan

Go Wings!


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:36:12 -0400
From: Tony Verhulst <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Pump Motor Controller & Brewtek web site


> I have a March pump on a RIMS system with a burner. After running full
speed and regulating the outflow, I decided to control the speed of the
pump
instead. Talked to a gearhead at March pump and he said the only concern
was
overheating. He added that unless I was running the pump in excess of
8-10
hours continuously, I shouldn't have a problem. If the pump does O/H
then the
thermal switch would trip and protect the motor. 
The key to controlling is using a fan motor controller and not a dimmer
or
light rheostat. I have a Leviton 5amp controller(Home Depot)and it works
great.
Just wanted to pass this along...

I've been using this for about 18 months with no problem. The difference
in motor temperature is hardly noticible. See
http://www.world.std.com/~verhulst/RIMS/panel_001.htm


- ------------------------------


> I'm having a problem getting to Brewtek's website and was wondering if
anyone else was having the same problem.  Every link I go to at
www.brewtek.com automatically jumps me over to the Brewers Resources
online
store.

> Any ideas on why this is happening and how to stop it?

Brewtek is a Brewers Resource trademark. You're going to the right
place.

Tony V.


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:25:40 -0700
From: "Brian Schar" <schar at cardica.com>
Subject: Temperature control during lagering

Steve McCormick wrote:

"I'd like to try some Lagers but I'm not exactly sure
where to begin.  I've got an old fridge in my basement
that's not being used, but I'm not sure how to control
the temperature accurately enough for fermentation.

Most recipes I see say start out at X degrees F and then
lower it over the course of a week or so down to Y (usually
around 30 degrees)... How exact do I need to be?  I'm
usually not a breworryer... but I don't want to ruin a
batch if I don't need to..."

I have made a few lagers myself, and like you was purely an ale brewer for
years before starting down the lager path.  My wife had a fridge perfect for
lager fermenting when we got married (of course, that had nothing to do with
me proposing to her), and I fermented a couple of batches in there with no
special temperature control.  We both thought they came out just fine.  When
we moved, we left that fridge behind, and I built one of those foam-wall
cold boxes that uses a small fan and jugs of ice to keep the temperature
down.  Again, it came out fine, even though there were some larger
temperature swings than might be ideal.

I'd say just go for it, and if you're not happy with the results, then think
about more precise temperature control.  Don't worry about it up front.

Brian Schar
Menlo Park, CA



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:37:00 -0500
From: "Dan Dewberry" <dandew at ev1.net>
Subject: AHA in Dallas-hotel change but don't worry

The Wilson World Hotel is being closed for renovations but all the hotel
rooms & the whole conference has been moved to the Holiday Inn Select
DFW/South Airport Hotel.  Check it out:

http://hbd.org/nhc2002/hotel.htm

American Homebrewers Association
National Homebrewers Conference 2002
June 20-22, 2002
Irving, Texas

Dan in Austin



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:23:49 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: lag times...Weihestephan

Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu admits to some confusion:

>Troy (Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>)
>
>in making reference to long lag times, refers to
>Wyeast 2124 as Wihestephan:
>
>>... I have been using the famed
>>Weihenstephan 34/70
>>strain (Wyeast 2124) and have read that it is a "slow starter"
>>and indeed I..."
>
>Are you not referring to the Bohemian Lager (2124) ?  While the #3068 is the
>Weihestephan, that has an ale range (64-75F)?

The confusion perhaps arises from the fact that many German yeasts 
are referred to by the initial "W" followed by a number.  This W can 
refer to either Weihenstephan (as in W34/70 (Wyeast #2124) and 
Wissenschaftliches, as in W308 (Wyeast #2308).  It certainly 
compounds the confusion that both of our major yeast companies, 
Wyeast and WhiteLabs, also begin with a "W".

And I'm not sure that I have which above yeast is from which source. 
I've asked an expert but haven't heard back.

Weihenstephan is the Bavarian State brewing school, with an 
affiliated brewery.  I think that Wissenschaftliche is a German yeast 
bank.  Again, I hope to have more info soon, but I thought I ought to 
put out what I do know.

So, there are a number of yeasts from each source available, and 
Darrell's thinking that Wyeast 3068 yeast (for Bavarian weizenbier) 
is "the" Weihenstephan yeast probably comes from that one being 
touted by Wyeast early on as from that source, and producing more 
flavorful beer than their first weizen yeast.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:03:26 -0700
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: Need help on Saaz growing

I have three hop plants in my yard. One each of Halertau, Saaz, and
Tetnanger. This is their second season in the ground. Last year I only got
hops off the Hallertau. The Tetnanger only got one vine to the top of the
trellis (about 12 feet), and the Saaz had a single vine about 4 feet high.
This year, all three plants are much healthier. The Hallertau and Tet are
already at the top of the trellis, but the Saaz is really lagging, at about
6 feet tall. It has several thick vines but they aren't growing very fast. I
am also getting more shoots coming up. I have read that Saaz are fussier
plants. Does anyone have specific insights on what to do differently with
Saaz? I'm thinking fertilizer, pruning, watering schedules, etc. Or maybe
Saaz just takes longer to establish itself. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

Mike Schrempp
Gig Harbor, WA


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:15:21 -0400
From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com>
Subject: Amish Cream Separator = Fermentator?

I was at my barber shop enjoying the Lehman's Catalog which sells
old-time stuff for simple, Amish-like living.  I came across a conical
shaped dairy container with legs that is a 10 gallon cream separator.
It looks to be perfect for a conical fermentator.  It's stainless steel
and has a valve at the bottom. The price is considerably less than what
similar items sell for in the homebrewing marketplace.

To see it go to:
http://www.lehmans.com
do a search by product # 30119 and pick the "old-time cream separator"

I would really like to have a conical fermentator.  Unfortunately, this
one is too tall for my needs in a chest freezer.  I need something
29inches or less which I have yet to find.

Don Lake
Orlando, FL



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:15:48 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Orlando Beer Hunting Tips

Brewers,

Thanks to all who responded publicly and/or privately to my recent
query--very helpful.  Top beer bars seem to be Orlando Ale House (close to
Disney, average/good selection) and Cricketeer Arms (British pub, some
hand-pulled commercial British brews).  Wolfgang Puck's garnered a couple
honorable mentions due to Pilsner Urquell and Big G on draught and
closeness (Disney Downtown).

Brew Pubs seem be of the chain type, so looks like Big River on the Disney
Boardwalk rules here.  I've been there before a few years back.  Beers were
clean.  Recent reviews on PubCrawler look encouraging.  

Top beer store vote goes to Heart's Home Brew.  Appears they have a
respectable (for FL) selection of tasty offerings in their cooler.    

One place that seemed to excape radar detection that I discovered myself on
the Central Florida Homebrewers web site (http://www.cfhb.org) is Rossi's.
Old Foghorn (curse that 6% limit in GA) on tap and great pizza and the
CFHB's meet there.  Sounds good to me!  Tip: For others beer hunters out
there, checking for web sites of local HB clubs may not be a bad idea.

Thanks for the help.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing




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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: cap caca report

Hello Everybody,
  Jeff Renner is a brewing god ! I had brewed a CACA 
last month with blue corn (no, it wasn't blue ((darn))
it only had a blush tone to it) using steam beer yeast
for one bucket and Windsor dry yeast for the other.
The windsor yeast batch went to my brothers wedding
party (I had also "lightened" half of it with 2
gallons of distilled H2O ) both the light half and the
regular beat out the other beer (Heineken) and were in
my opinion, good "lawnmower beers"  but man oh man,
the one with the steam beer yeast is GREAT !  Jeff -
Thanks !  I  will brew this one again !

=====
BIBIDI !
        Brew It Bottle It Drink It 
       Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
        Bainbridge, PA,  U.S.A.



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:25:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Steve's call for beer language

>From: mailto:pbabcock at hbd.org
>Subject: Steve's call for beer language
>
>...Commendable call to arms, Steve. When I decided I
>was done
>reacting to the Klein calendar, I penned a note
>similar calling
>for descriptions, but couldn't quite put my
>perspective into
>words, so I dumped it...

Are you guys talking about that calendar?  
I mean that silly beer calendar everyone thinks
I should get every Christmas cuz I am a homebrewer.

Well, I finally figured it all out, the calendar comes
upside down from the maker. It must be some kind
of mistake.  I found out that by flipping it over,
then
you have this real nice thick scratch pad.

All the time you rubes have been using the wrong side!



=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suberb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:10:37 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Fusels

Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
> This issue appeared when I posted that some(most) HBers are 
> IGNORANT of the flavor impacts of HSA.  No insult was 
> intended, but the term "ignorant".... I just don't get it;  I 
> am ignorant of many things, I make mistakes, I misread things 
> and misunderstand things ..... these are all matters of
> record and fact.

Indeed, there is no shame in being ignorant, only in the desire to remain
that way. 
 
> Beer descriptions wanted:
> 
> I would really like to see some serious posted attempts at 
> good descriptions of widely available beers and some 
> CONSTRUCTIVE comments for a change.  I think it could be a 
> useful topic for discussion.
>

Indeed again. And I shall give some intrepid soul an opportunity to venture
forth into the Land That Roget Forgot by attempting to come up with a
spectacularly vivid description of the taste of fusels, as they might
manifest themselves in a hoppy, malty Pilsner style. This has been proposed
as a possible source of an off flavour in a Pils I recently brewed. I can
picture the taste in my mind, but damned if I can convert that into anything
beyond "burnt green stuff". I thought it might be some unpleasant lingering
hop flavours, but time is passing and the taste does not seem to be fading
noticeably, nor is it getting worse. The other oddity is that this taste
only appears in the portion of the batch fermented with Staropramen yeast.
The portion that got the Czech Pils yeast does not exhibit this. Both got
the same temperature schedule, but I suspect (without actually measuring)
that the pitching rate in the affected portion was lower. 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg
 


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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:28:53 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJR at NFGSales.com>
Subject: RE: Adding Water After Fermentation


I have on a number of occasions done what you are asking. Brew a high
gravity beer then dilute with additional water prior to bottling. This also
helps me get to the final gravity I am looking for.  I do not recommend
distilled water.  Purified water is suitable contains natural minerals, but
distilled water has no minerals or salts.

Frank
ATF Home Brew Club
New Bern NC



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:23:00 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: A Call to Arms:  Great Idea

Bickering Brewers,

Steve and then Pat have struck a chord with me... and I think the
proposition could turn into something fun and educational that all could get
into.

Just yesterday I wrote a note Jeff Renner lamenting that the HBD seems to
have lost some of its spark for me. It seems that many of the old voices are
not around much any more, most topics have been discussed and rediscussed ad
nausea, and then with all the fighting, name calling, "I said this, no you
said that" that has been going on, I feel our little community needs
something to bring it all together again. 

Pat seconds the call to arms and puts forth a project of developing
discussion and a resource for language descriptors that might some day be
incorporated into the BJCP Study Guide. Great Idea!!! I whole heartedly jump
on board!

I am "studying" for the BJCP and one thing that I have a lot of trouble with
is finding the words that describe exactly what I taste and smell. Obviously
with all the complaining about scoresheets from competitions I am not the
only one for whom this is a difficult task.

I say we set up a schedule of well distributed beers in the classic styles
and those who want can go out and buy them and take part and learn from one
other in the ensuing discussions. I feel that everyone at all levels could
really get into this and could learn a whole lot from the process. As Steve
has done we could draw from the resources that are out there like the BJCP
Guidelines and the Jackson books. It would also provide a project that would
pull this community together a bit much like the HBDPAE did a while back.

Some commercial examples have been mentioned recently... we need beers that
are classics for the style and beers that hold up to the abuses of
exportation, etc. Steve has started us out with SNPA - a fine choice, and
others like all of the Spaten-Franziskaner line, Paulaner, Chimay, Duvel,
Guinness, ... you get the picture... 

Anyway, I am excited about this and feel that it is something we should try!

Troy Hager
San Mateo, CA



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:30:32 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Need another mag drive pump

Greetings,

I'm looking for another Mag drive pump. I'd like to get 
the same one that I got from MovingBrews (High temp,  
& plastic pump head).

Anyone know where I can find another one?

Please let me know direct as I'm trying to find one & 
hope to order tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

ThanksGary

Gary Smith

http://musician.dyndns.org

"Grief can take care of itself, but to get the full value of 
a joy you must have somebody to divide it with."
 - Mark Twain -




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---