HOMEBREW Digest #3968 Thu 20 June 2002

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  Dump Gump in Dallas! ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  sparge (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  stout (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! ("Chad Gould")
  cloudy runoff ("Peter Fantasia")
  empty kegs (byron towles)
  Re: Questions on Double Bucket Sparging Systems (Demonick)
  Ohio makes progress! (David Harsh)
  I need some help - harsh flavors after carbonating (Karen & Troy Hager)
  Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! (Ronald La Borde)
  Plastic PET bottles ("Tanksalot")
  How to protect sight tube from heat? ("Gary Smith")
  Mashing Questions for a Barley Wine (Don Lake)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:47:57 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: Dump Gump in Dallas! Dump Gump in Dallas! Folks, It's off to Dallas for Gump. I hear they have both GREAT STEAKS and BEER in Texas, and I plan to find as much of each as I can! Hoping to drink as many beers with as many homebrewers as is humanly possible in Dallas... I will be easy to find....Just look for a tall handsome man, wearing a tuxedo and a baseball cap adorned with a "Houston Foam Rangers" badge. I will be flanked by several dozen Dallas Cheerleaders carrying placards that say "DUMP GUMP IN DALLAS," "MR. PUKE And BARF," and "SHUT UP AND DRINK YOUR BEER!" No really, there will only be 2 Dallas Cheerleaders escorting me, so the placards will have to go.....(I can't afford the 2 cheerleaders either...but they don't know that yet.....hush!!) Nontheless, when you do make your way to the best Convention yet, I do hope to make your acquaintance...and renew many that go back for years. The folks that have set this puppy up are more numerous than I can begin to think of...so I will have to consolidate all their effort in the name of one man, who first proposed this convention site...Dave Dixon....and say "Thanks, mate! It's blokes like you that make this a great sport!" Beyond that, let me thank all of you that voted to keep me on the Board. I know there has been some controversy this year regarding my position...but please be assured, as long as I remain here, I pledge to both protect and promote your best interests, as I see them, and am able to help. I guess that's all anyone could offer....not much really, but I will never sell you short. But that's what I think the AHA is about....helping brewers become better brewers with the knowledge that we already have.....starting the new fellas off to a better start than we had...and providing, with the events and content of Conventions like the one I am about to attend, places where we can get to see the face behind the e-mail....have a few beers, and perhaps, more than bloody likely, leave having learned something more than we came with, and having given something to someone else. That's brewing. That's life. Thanks, mates. Now, where are my internet URL's for Dallas Cheerleaders and steakhouses? Gump in a Dallas State of Mind "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 01:09:52 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report >From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com> >Subject: feed and bleed force carbonation Rob asks about the feed and bleed system of force carb'ing...I assure you it works, but much depends upon the quality of your airstone, the temp of the beer, and the most important element that you have a problem with....top pressure will reduce/eliminate the foaming. Quickly through my proceedure... 1)Fill tank of beer.... 2)Place top pressure of 15psi on beer... 3)Now here's the really precise scientific part....place your ear against the tank, and listen as you crack the valve to the airstone....once at the appropriate 'note'...you can often feel the CO2 hose vibrate....again, highly scientifically specific..... 4) Every 15 minutes or so...release top pressure to 15 from the 25-35 it has reached. 5)After 45 minutes, test with a Zahm and Nagel CO2 Tester...(God's Gift to Brewers!) Bottom line, in the last 2 days, I have carbed up 3 7BBL vessels of brew...with airstones of varying length's and diameter...to a CO2 of 2.1 Vol's (+/-) within 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. It works....you have to see it to believe it. Gump "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:55:03 -0400 From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu Subject: sparge Luke; I went through a similarly frustating experience with the Zapap sort of setup. I pre-heated mine (before moving the converted grain from the kettle into the tun) with REAL HOT water...then I placed 3 plates (2 large dinner plates with a smaller saucer on top) in the false bottom...to use up space, and to hold heat...I microwaved them just before placing them in the bottom... and I found that I held heat pretty well.. I am thinking that the heating element may be a factor for you, ie in creating problems...and would try to sparge without it to see.. Also, I usually ran the spigot wide open for 1 to 2 quarts...to set the grain bed...then tried to not let anything jar/ disturb the bed....My sense is that compared to stainless lauter-tuns (Polarware,..) your setup is very delicate..ie the grainbed can too easlily get disturbed...and heating may do it as well... Good luck..I also had similar problems...sometimes it would take a few hours to complete the collection of my 6-7 gallons of wort! Now I do it in about 1/2 hour...with a PolarWare tun... Good luck...and please post to the Hbd to let us know ,....once you figure it out! Happy Brewing! ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:08:51 -0400 From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu Subject: stout Richard (ooh_rick at yahoo.com) asks about the stout that I was bragging about...yes I did start the conversion at 165F in that I wanted it to be sweeter/ more mouthfeel,..etc,..and I thought that by starting at the higher temp this might occur... I have used just the Irish Ale yeast several times in the past, and like the results,...but I have found myself in an experimental mood lately, and in the convenient position of being "yeast wealthy" (I buy much more than I can use...in that I reuse ...usually 3 times)...and concerned with the fact that I didn't make a starter,..so I figured that one way of increasing the amt of health yeast was to pitch 2 vials! I think that the biggest problem with this recipe may very well be the foam/ head retention. I have pushed the use of malted oats up this high before (2 lb) only to find that , I think , due to the oil content in them...head was negatively effected... ..but I am willing to live with that...so long as the wonderful flavor remains through bottling and pigging... Please let us know how yours comes out Happy Brewing! and thanks to the Janitors, and contributors to the Hbd,...without which I would not be brewing pretty good beer! ...Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:55:30 -0400 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! > I've been brewing for over 6 years and have made many successful batches. I > used to brew in upstate NY, with spring water as my water source. Now I'm > in FL, using city water. Hmm... Probably not the water itself, unless the smell was slightly "medicinal / phenolic" and more "off" than anything else. Our county (Pinellas) recently switched to chloramine to sanitize their water system. It has been theorized (in one of my brew books, and in other posts) that chloramine cannot be removed by boiling (like chlorine can). Rather, you have to charcoal filter the water to get the chloramine out. Note that I've heard from others that chloramine really doesn't affect the taste of the final beer, though. Other posts suspect that even the more stable chloramine will bind to malt and produce off-flavors. (For the last brew I did, I didn't take the chance and used spring water.) Chloramine would not cause sourness though. In my case, I don't think I scrubbed well enough. I've heard sanitation is 90% physical, 10% chemical - overreliance on chemicals is not a good idea, in other words. If that's right, if you are pouring chemicals in the vessel but not getting down and dirty with scrubbing, even if you can't see a spot, I can imagine there are still bacteria in the fermentation buckets waiting to pop up. Not all bottled spring water is created equal, either - I've heard people tracing infections to that. The last batch I brewed with Zephyrhills, a common brand in Florida, so I'll let you know how it turns out. It's possible that you have a couple of things going at once. If the glass batches were only "iffy" and the stainless steel container "sour", maybe doing a fermentation in both vessels will yield further clues. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:22:41 -0400 From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com> Subject: cloudy runoff Luke asked about clearing the runoff from a zapap lauter/mash tun. I have a zapap I use occasionally for 5 gal batches. Pick up some stainless steel screen and make a sort of easymasher type fixture. Attach it to the outlet in the bottom where your dead space is. Runoff will clear almost immediately. Just roll a peice of the screen into a tube about 6 inches long and fold the outlet usind a peice of copper tubing and a gum rubber stopper or whatever works. The cloudiness could be due to hot break from the heating element. The stainless screen should remove that as well. Brew on, Pete in NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: byron towles <btowles at yahoo.com> Subject: empty kegs I'm looking to pick up an empty full sized keg for use as a brewpot. I'm not certain where is the best place to pick up such items. I've gotten a couple of suggestions, but would like to know how other homebrewers have found their modified kegs (if they use them at all). Any suggestions as to how and where I can find an empty keg would be appreciated. And, if it helps, the local area is New Orleans. Thanks in advance. Byron Towles ===== - ------------------------------------ The two most common elements in the Universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity! - ------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:52:20 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Questions on Double Bucket Sparging Systems In a mash tun, the grain bed should form the filter. In a proper system no other filter is required other than the false bottom and the grain bed. A bit of recirculation should clear the particulates from the foundation water and bottom of the grain bed. That said, we need to know more about your setup. What is the purpose of the grain bag? If it is to keep grain out of the foundation space then the holes in your false bottom are too big. I used 1/8" holes on 1/4" centers for my false bottom and these work well. However, were I to drill them again I'd make them 3/32". Tropical fish hobby supply stores will have a food-grade fine plastic netting. If your holes are too big use this netting to cover your false bottom instead of the grain bag. For a description of my round mash tun false bottom search the archives for "pizza pan". How is the false bottom sealed to the bucket? If it's a press fit or glued, "cup inside a cup", then it is probably sealed pretty well. If it is not sealed very well, consider using vinyl tubing of the correct size as a gasket. This may not apply, but vinyl tubing can be slit length-wise along one side, then pressed over the edge of a metal or plastic sheet. The tubing will then be a gasket. 3.5 quarts of foundation water is a lot. It's almost a gallon. Try to reduce that by half, though I can't tell you how to do it. Can you cut down the false bottom and press it deeper into the tun? Can you cut down the false bottom, use the vinyl tubing gasket trick and flip the false bottom over? This would be an "inverted cup inside a cup". You may then need to use a pick up tube on the spigot to get under the false bottom. You can use a slotted manifold in a round mash tun. Nice thing about a slotted manifold is that it is made from tubing, and even if your spigot hole is well above the bottom of the tun the tubing can be bent to lay on the bottom. Slotted tubing made from 1/2" copper can be assembled using a press fit and then everything can be disassembled for cleaning. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:07:06 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Ohio makes progress! Greetings- It seems Ohio may have figured it out - the state Senate passed a law doubling the permitted alcohol content in beer to 12%! Read the news at: [cut and paste required for full url] http://www.channelcincinnati.com/sh/news/ohio/ stories/news-ohio-151952020020619-070647.html Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:55:53 -0700 From: Karen & Troy Hager <thager at smcoe.k12.ca.us> Subject: I need some help - harsh flavors after carbonating I need some help, I have had a repeated problem ever since I have started kegging. My problem is that my beer tastes/smells excellent until I force carbonate it. It then picks up stale and harsh flavors. I spot these flavors as very similar to some of the oxidized flavors I taste in commercial bottles of beer that have gone off. The flavors have a hard edge, the complexity, liveliness and delicacy have gone and are replaced by flavors that resemble old coffee or old tea flavors - harsh is a perfect descriptor. The hops have not diminished though. In fact I repeatedly have had very bitter and harsh flavors even when using low IBUs, very soft water and noble hops. I know kegging is difficult and cleaning and sanitization are extremely important. I am meticulous with my cleaning and sanitization methods. I soak and hand scrub all of my cornies with TSP and rinse well right after their use. I sanitize everything before use with iodophor or star-san. I pressure cook keg fittings and lids. I soak and brush all keg lines every time I change kegs. I also soak and scrub all taps and quick disconnects every time. I recently brewed a continental lager. I used undermodified Budvar malt and German hops to about 22 IBUs. I lagered it for 4 weeks. It tasted incredible- a very beautiful malt aroma, nicely balanced malt and hop flavors, the flavors were very complex and delicate from beginning to end - I was very excited that I had produced a very fine beer. I then placed 15psi on it and left it for a week. After cleaning and sanitizing lines and taps I anxiously pulled my first pint.... Ugh! NASTY!!!!!! Everything good about the beer was gone and was replaced by those same harsh, old, stale, bitter flavors I have had in so many of my beers. It was truly undrinkable and I had to throw it all out. In the past I have thought maybe I had a bad bottle of CO2. I posted about this and many said that this was highly unlikely. I replaced it anyway with no differences. The only thing I can think of is that some how, some way O2 is getting into my keg when I carbonate it. The only thing that has stayed the same is the regulator. Could it be that the regulator is bad and is some how letting in air? I know oxidation can produce the flavors I am tasting. One strange thing I have noticed is that my CO2 tanks seem to last forever - even though I use plenty of gas to purge tanks and bottles, etc. - but the pressure gauge on the tank seems to always stay the same. I am very frustrated and have spent a lot of time and money on this hobby. It kills me to have all my dollars and labors go down the drain. Does anyone have any ideas? Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! Well Greg, it seems like you do more effort at sanitation then I do, and still you have that off flavor. >From your description, your techniques certainly seem more than adequate, so I will try to conjure up what may be the cause - just guessing here though. Think about the O2 filter, try a brew once by just using the shake, shake and shake method. Totally eliminate the O2, the filter, the stone, etc. Does your immersion chiller have a slow tiny leak? Here is one that I wonder about on my brews. How do you cover the wort while chilling with the immersion chiller? Could be dirty air getting in as you chill. I have been using a crude but seemingly OK method - I place a large plastic bag, a yard bag, shoping center bag, any bag large enough to cover the top of the kettle and hang down the sides. I do this and let it steam for about 5 minutes before the boil ends. This is crude, but works for me. ===== Ron Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA www.hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:22:58 -0400 From: "Tanksalot" <tanksalot at rogers.com> Subject: Plastic PET bottles My Counter Pressure Bottle Filler (CPF) fills champagne type bottles fine. But the rubber Bung won't fit plastic PET bottles. So I'm looking for a supplier of tapered rubber bungs (#4 Bored is the size suggested), or any other ideas for filling. Any other comments would be welcome. Larry, WinePros Wine & Homebrew club, London, ON Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:04:25 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: How to protect sight tube from heat? Hi, I have a sight tube on my boil kettle, a thermometer & the valve. The boil kettle is a 15 gal SABCO vessel. The heat for the boil kettle comes from a Camp Chef with one heckuva flame. I'm concerned the overflow heat will ruin either the thermometer or the rubber in the sight gauge as both are barely above the weld line on the bottom of the keg. I looked around for some "asbestos" quality heat proof material to run around the bottom border of the keg to act as a heat shield but no luck unless I want to buy industrial quantities of insulation. Anyone found a reasonable answer to protecting the meter & sight gauge under high sustained heat like we get when we achieve boil? Thanks, Gary Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:08:24 -0400 From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com> Subject: Mashing Questions for a Barley Wine I am planning to brew my first barley wine using the all-grain method using a converted sanke keg as a mash tun. My questions are: 1) Approximately how many pounds of grain can I comfortably mash in a converted sanke keg? 2) What kind of effeciency should I expect (I normally get 70-75%)? 3) Should I not sparge for the first runnings until it runs dry and then add water for a second runnings beer? 4) What else should I be asking? Thanks Don Lake Orlando, FL Return to table of contents
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