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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Beer and mosquito attraction (ensmingr)
  Re: MB RIMS chamber (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: MB RIMS chamber (Dion Hollenbeck)
  RE:  Poor efficiency and strange taste ("Parker Dutro")
  A correction to a RE: Watery beer-post ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: pump recommendations (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  boil time and wort composition (Paul Kensler)
  US Electrical System - 240V ("David Mackaway")
  march pumps ("the freeman's")
  Homebrew in Germany (Alan McKay)
  Re: Isomerized hop extract ("Doug Hurst")
  Boddingtons (gremake)
  March pumps ("Strom C. Thacker")
  Chilled regulator and secondary cornies ("Peter Fantasia")
  Re: Isomerized hop extract (Jeff Renner)
  Introduction...  (w/ Questions) ("Bill Lucas")
  taste...watery... (Kent Fletcher)
  Sg Readings and Alcohol content ("Pete Calinski")


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:25:49 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Beer and mosquito attraction

>From PubMed/MedLine, an interesting topic for this time of year
 ...

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr

- -----
J Am Mosq Control Assoc 2002 Jun;18(2):91-6
Alcohol ingestion stimulates mosquito attraction.

Shirai O, Tsuda T, Kitagawa S, Naitoh K, Seki T, Kamimura K,
Morohashi M.

Department of Biodefence Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Toyama
Medical and Pharmaceutical University, Sugitani, Japan.

Mosquito bites should be avoided because of the risk of
contracting parasitic and viral diseases such as malaria, dengue
fever, and several encephalitides. Although humans have been said
to suffer more mosquito bites after ingesting liquor, little is
known about whether that is true. Thirteen volunteers (12 men
from 20 to 58 years old and a 24-year-old woman) were chosen as
test hosts and a 30-year-old man was established as a control. We
measured ethanol content in sweat, sweat production, and skin
temperature before and after ingestion of 350 ml of beer (ethanol
concentration 5.5%) by volunteers and compared them with a
control subject. Our study demonstrated that percent mosquito
landing on volunteers significantly increased after beer
ingestion compared with before ingestion, showing clearly that
drinking alcohol stimulates mosquito attraction. However, ethanol
content in sweat and skin temperature did not show any
correlation between alcohol ingestion and mosquito landings. This
study shows that persons drinking alcohol should be careful about
their increased risk to mosquito bites and therefore exposure to
mosquito-borne diseases.
- -----




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Date: 27 Jun 2002 21:31:43 -0700
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: MB RIMS chamber

>> Paul Kensler writes:

PK> I'm familiar with the Moving Brews RIMS chamber - its
PK> an impressive all-SS monster and "one of these days"
PK> I'll get around to finishing my RIMS system so I can
PK> use it...

PK> But I know for a fact that one of the pieces - the end
PK> fitting where the heating element screws in - is a
PK> custom machined piece that Bill Stewart of Moving
PK> Brews had re-threaded for this purpose.  Apparently
PK> heating elements are not standard pipe thread.

This does not need to be the case.  The heater elements are threaded
1" by 11 threads per inch, straight pipe thread.  The 1" pipe fitting
is 1" by 11 tpi *tapered* pipe thread.  They fit quite nicely,
however, you have to cherry pick them WITH YOUR HEATER IN HAND!

The tapered pipe threads will fit just fine around the straight
threads, but when you screw it in sufficiently enough, the tapered
threads will "bottom out" on the straight threads and you will not be
able to turn it in any further.

It is very important that when you screw your heater in, that the
rubber gasket gets squashed BEFORE the threads bottom out.  You should
be able to do this by hand.

No need for a custom fitting, although I have to admit that the first
one I made was with a fitting I hand threaded on a lathe with straight
threads.  Then I found that some fittings had enough tolerance to fit.

And as far as the size goes, my heater chamber is 1 1/2" diameter.
Just built a new one that holds two 6500 watt heaters.   Go with the
stainless, it is worth it.  Will only cost about $100 if you just buy
the parts.


dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen


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Date: 27 Jun 2002 21:36:46 -0700
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: MB RIMS chamber

>> Kent Fletcher writes:

KF> pressure application of a RIMS chamber, you can use a
KF> 1" NPT female fitting mated to the NPS element using
KF> appropriate sealant with no problems. I have, and I've
KF> seen many others on the web with similar construction.

What I have found is good is three or four wraps of teflon tape with a
very slight coating of food grade aquarium approved silicone seal.
Keep it back from the end of the threads, you only want enough to seal
the very tiny gap of the last 2 or three threads down in the fitting.

BTW, I have some good pictures of one of these at my web site below.

dion
- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:32:07 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE:  Poor efficiency and strange taste

Yves, 
The move to all-grain presents a heap of new concerns and procedures, as
well as produces superior beer.  To improve efficiency, look at grain
crush and sparge temp.  Also, sometimes the configuration of the
mash-tun causes drainage problems.  But start by assessing the crushing
of your grain.  Do you do it yourself or does your brew shop do it?  You
want the husks to be whole and the grain to be exposed.  Too fine will
cause stuck sparges and not cracked enough will reduce efficiency.  Did
you do a iodine test for starch conversion?  Take a couple drops off the
top of the mash and put on a whit plate.  Drop a little iodine in the
middle of the puddle and see if it changes color.  If it stays red your
good to go, but if it turns black or purple, there is still starch yet
converted.  When sparging you want to drain slowly, about a quart a
minute or slower.  The sparge should closely match the drain speed, and
be lightly and evenly sprinkled over the top, keeping an inch or so of
water above the grain bed top.  The sparge water should be at least 170
deg.  I usually hold mine in the cooler at 190 because by the time it
gets to the mash-tun it will have dropped through the air and cooled
quite a bit.  The hotter the sparge water, the better your sugar
extraction will be.  But water that's too hot will contribute in
leaching out tannins, which lend a harsh flavor to the final product.  

And about your "funny" flavor during fermentation:  This is quite
normal.  In fact, some beers taste downright awful until they have been
in the bottle for months.  It's referred to as "green" beer because it's
not ripe or something.  There is a lot the yeast will do before the beer
is quality, and even after the yeast have had their way, the flavors
still need to sit and mellow, and the hop flavors will round a bit while
the malt becomes more pronounced.  So it's ok to taste your beer during
fermentation (I would wait until racking to secondary) but it's not any
indication of what the final product will be.

Keep brewing; it gets way more fun with all grain!
Parker Dutro,
Portland, Oregon





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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:43:56 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: A correction to a RE: Watery beer-post

Nicholas, I mentioned in my reply that I used anywhere from 3 to 6
pounds of specialty grain for extract brewing.  This is pretty
inaccurate.  I am not sure how I decided on those numbers; I guess I had
had a couple homebrews.  1 to 3 pounds is more realistic.  Depending on
the style you could easily use more, but in many pale ales and session
beers, 3 pounds is about as much as you'll need.

Cheers!
PD




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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:16:25 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: pump recommendations

In HBD #3973 Ken Wagner from Columbus, OH asked about sources other
than Moving Brews for a high temp pump.  Then in HBD #3974 Jeff McNally
said, "I can't seem to locate a web page for March".  
The March Pump web site is: http://www.marchpump.com.  They list all of 
the distributors in North America with phone numbers.

Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8,103.6 Rennerian)




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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: boil time and wort composition

Someone recently told me that boiling for 90 minutes
vs. boiling for 60 minutes would make for a less
fermentable, fuller-bodied beer.  This just doesn't
sit right - anyone have comments to support or dispute
that claim?  I can see things like possibly increased
color or wort darkening, and obviously the lenght of
time hops are boiled will affect their contributions -
but body and fermentability?

So if you have two identical worts with the same
pre-boil gravity, the one boiled for 90 minutes will
have a higher post-boil gravity due to increased
evaporation and concentration - but lets say you add
water to account for the increased evaporation so that
the two worts once again have the same gravity (this
time post-boil).  Will the 90 minute boil wort be
significantly differant than the 60 minute boil wort,
as far as fermentability, body, mouthfeel, flavor...?


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:54:28 +1000
From: "David Mackaway" <mackawad at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: US Electrical System - 240V

I'm in the process of moving from Australia to the US (Chicago) and
currently have a RIMS system running on 240V (which is the standard voltage
hear in OZ).My RIMS is a soft heat exchange system that has 2 x 2300 Watt
electrical heating elements (one in my HLT and one in the exchanger) plus a
240V pump.Can anyone explain to me the electricity setup in the US.  I know
that the standard outlet in a house is 120V but have seen people talk about
running 240V systems and also talk about dryer outlets at 240V.  I would be
greatful for any insight.

A confused Aussie

Dave




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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:22:29 -0500
From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: march pumps

Try McMaster Carr at http://www.mcmaster.com/.  Look under circulating
pumps.  Their part number 4161K21 is a March 809 series with bronze pump
casing and mag drive.  I use 2 of these on "the perfesser".  Get the
1/25th hp version 'cause the 1/10th hp is wussy.

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:36:11 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Homebrew in Germany

Andrew Nix asks about brewing beer in Germany.
Definitely take the advice already given and be sure to
declare the beer you brew.  And make sure you know what the limits
are beyond which you will be taxed.

There is a German HBD which you can find off Hubert's
excellent site at : http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/
The website has an English mirror, though the HBF itself
(the mailing list) is usually all German.

You can also check out http://www.bier-selbstgebraut.de/

cheers,
 -Alan
p.s. Do let us know if you find out what makes Karl
so peaceful ;-)

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site 


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:42:35 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Isomerized hop extract

Mr. 0,0 writes:

"Anyway, I have over the years made a hop tea with some success, but 
the last time this happened, I tried to find some isomerized hop 
extract to doctor it up with no luck.  This time, however, Jason at 
Adventures in Homebrewing in Dearborn, MI http://www.homebrewing.org/ 
came to the rescue.  He didn't stock it, but he happened to have an 
unused little vial (1/2" x 1.75") of the stuff as a sample from a 
distributor.  He dropped it in the mail and I tried it today.  It 
worked great."

A while back I attempted to make an IPA complete with dry hopping and
oak chips in the secondary.  It had a great hop flavor, aroma and
strange oakiness, which might have been interesting if the beer had
lasted long enough to age a little.  

Problem was that I somehow didn't add enough bittering hops.  I think it
was due to some confusion on my part regarding FWH.  Anyway, I needed to
up the bitterness.  This beer was destined for a party and I needed a
quick and accurate solution, so I started searching for an isomerized
hop extract.  I found it at Hop Tech  http://www.hoptech.com .  They
call it Iso-Alpha Acid Extract.  It came with a nice instruction sheet
detailing how to determine the number of IBUs you're adding to a given
volume.  

I wouldn't say this stuff is a substitute for the real thing but it's
good in a pinch.  To my mind (palate) the bitterness wasn't so clean.
There was a sort of soapy character to it.  Some of this perception may
have been due to the interaction of the extract with the oak and dry
hops, but there was more than just bitterness in the adulterated sample
when compared to a non-adulterated sample. It did, however, help make my
beer a little better.


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:53:14 -0500
From: gremake at gsb.uchicago.edu
Subject: Boddingtons

Hello all,

Boddingtons Pub Draught is one of the few beers my wife really enjoys, so I'd
 like to try brewing a batch for her.  A Wheeler & Protz resource suggests 
95% pale, 2% black patent and 3% cane sugar.  A search of the HBD 
archives yielded only a reference to a recipe in a Zymurgy article.  I'm 
wondering if anyone can provide the Zymurgy recipe, or better yet, if 
anyone has brewed a successful version and can provide some guidance.  
I know I can't duplicate the widget foam stand, but maybe the proper 
ingredients and Jeff's beer syringe will yield acceptable results.

 Cheers,

 Greg
 Chicago, IL



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:54:41 -0400
From: "Strom C. Thacker" <sthacker at bu.edu>
Subject: March pumps

I found that US Plastics (NAJSCYYY) had good prices on March pumps when I
bought mine a few years ago.  A search for "march pump" at
http://www.usplastic.com/ brings up several. I have one of the MDX models
and have been quite happy with it. They range from $104 to $110. I *think,*
but am not sure, that the March pumps may be more suited to food
applications than the Little Giant or Teel pumps, at least in terms of what
the manufacturers claim they can do.

Strom
Newton, MA



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:27:38 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Chilled regulator and secondary cornies

I was reading through the archives trying to find information on how to use
a cornie keg as a secondary or primary (I'm new to kegging) and was
wondering how most of my fellow beerlings do it. I was thinking of just
removing the gas in post and inserting a gum rubber stopper and an airlock.

On a second note I came across a post which said that keeping your regulator
and CO2 attached to the cornie in the fridge wasn't a good idea because you
would get condensation which would ruin the regulator. Is this true? What
are you supposed to do? Disconnect the CO2 tank and regulator after every
use? Seems like a PITA. I know Jeff does a lot of secondary ferm in cornies,
what's your system?

PS: The pretzels were great!

Enjoying my first english mild outa the keg,
Pete Fantasia
NJ


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:39:26 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Isomerized hop extract

At 9:42 AM -0500 6/28/02, Doug Hurst wrote:
>I found it at Hop Tech  http://www.hoptech.com .  They
>call it Iso-Alpha Acid Extract.  It came with a nice instruction sheet
>detailing how to determine the number of IBUs you're adding to a given
>volume.
<snip>
>I wouldn't say this stuff is a substitute for the real thing but it's
>good in a pinch.  To my mind (palate) the bitterness wasn't so clean.
>There was a sort of soapy character to it.  Some of this perception may
>have been due to the interaction of the extract with the oak and dry
>hops, but there was more than just bitterness in the adulterated sample
>when compared to a non-adulterated sample.

I'll continue to use real hops whenever I can, but I noted no off 
flavors whatsoever.  This may be due to a different source - don't 
know.  If anything, I was struck by the increase of clean bitterness 
with no additional hop flavor, which somehow seemed odd.  Of course 
it wasn't odd, but if I had added more hops to the boil to get the 
same IBUs, there would have been more than simple bitterness.  At any 
rate, it made an unremarkable bitter very nice indeed.  I drank three 
pints!

I mentioned the increase in foam stability.  This morning there a 
half inch of  clumpy foam in the bottom of the glass.  Now that's 
stability!

I did a google search and found the following additional online sources:

http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/shopping/beeradd/index.asp (no 
indication of how much bitterness is added)

http://www.northernbrewer.com/hop-accessories.html (also no 
indication of strength; I also didn't find it when I did a search on 
the site for isomerized hope extract)

There was also a broken link to it at DeFalco's, but I couldn't find 
it on the site.  Probably there somewhere.

Thanks for the pointer to Hoptech.  It didn't come up on the google 
search.  A search for iso-hop got hits mostly in Australia and 
Canada.  Must be the British connection.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:39:26 -0400
From: "Bill Lucas" <Homebrew42 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Introduction...  (w/ Questions)

Hello all,



My Name is Bill,



First let me thank everyone who unwittingly gave me advice and solved my
problems...  I have been lurking on the digest for a couple of months and
have been brewing since around January of this year.  I caught the bug in a
big way.  We have brewed a total of around 8 - 10 batches since then going
all grain since our third batch.  Once again this list has been very helpful
to our efforts to improve our beer and our brewing process so thanks to all
for posting similar questions to the ones I have had and to others for
answering them.  However, I now find myself with some questions that have
not been asked yet so I figured now would be a good time to come out of the
shadows and post 'em to the board to see what others think...



First is about a recent "find" of mine...  I was walking the dogs the other
night with SWMBO and as we were walking through the adjacent apartment
complex she pointed out a bright shiny metal object off by the dumpster...
Turns out it was an empty 15.5 gal Molson keg just perfect for a boil
kettle.  After inspecting it we noticed the last valve-servicing sticker on
it read '00 and there was a think layer of dust all over the keg.  After
letting the keg sit (albeit in the shadows now) for a couple of hours to
make sure it wasn't wanted I went back and rescued it from the junkyard.  So
now there are bright dancing visions of 10-gallon batches and Propane
burners running through my head as I giddily carry this new acquisition back
to my place.  After cleaning it up and what not I started thinking about the
conversion process and what might greet me when I drill a hole in the top of
the keg.  I really can't imagine what 2 years of sitting around in someone's
apartment after being tapped by a party tap would do to the inside of the
keg and the quality of the air trapped in there.  Is there any pre-cleaning
I could do on the keg to try to reduce the assault on the senses I can see
happening if I just started cutting into the thing?  I just don't want to
pass out from the fumes.  I am sure we can clean the inside, I just don't
want the rotting beer and other growing nasties inside of it to knock me out
in the process.  I have a Draft Setup with a tavern head and a CO2 canister
but I am not thrilled at the prospects of running the remaining liquid in
the Keg through my tap.  so any suggestions on the matter would be great.



My Second Question comes in with the last batch of beer we brewed it was a
Red Ale (Gack & Gerry's Red Dusk from Home Brew Favorites) and we brewed it
on 6/21.  It had a post boil og of 1.046. It's fermentation took off, and
was so vigorous that it blew all the water out of the airlock twice and had
about 3 - 3.5 in of krausen.  However the fermentation was only apparent for
about 4 days and the krausen had fallen by the day before. By this time we
had little over a gallon of trub on the bottom so we racked it to secondary
on the 25th.  When we racked it had a specific gravity of about 1.016.  A
couple of my friends asked if we might possibly have it ready by the fourth.
Is that feasible?  It seems like an awfully short time to let the thing sit
in the carboy.  I was planning on force carbonating it anyway.  Could I keg
it and put the CO2 on it and let it finish its fermentation while I am force
carbonating it?  I took another hydrometer reading and it is down to about
1.012.  Last time fermentation seemed to stop at about 1.010 so it should be
close, but I would like to get some CO2 into it and give it a chance to sit
again after it was carbonated.  Does anyone have any comments on this idea?
Am I asking for trouble or to ruin an otherwise good batch of beer?



My third and final question is in regard to a grain bill I got recently.
Last time I was in my LHBS the owner gave me a bag of grain that he said was
for another customer who never showed up.  The Grain was already ground and
sealed in an airtight plastic bag.  Scott (the owner) told me it was grain
for a Marzen and gave me the grains and threw in 3 oz of Saaz hops for 2
bucks.  All I need now is some yeast and I am ready to try my first lager.
Since the ingredients came cheap and my time on the weekend seems to be
worth a lot less than on the weekdays I decided to experiment and do a
decoction mash.  I read through that and came up with a mash schedule and
everything seems like I am ready to start.  However, since there isn't any
recipe to speak of, and I have never brewed a lager before I would like some
advice on a hoping schedule (amount, time and if Saaz isn't right variety),
boil time, use of finings etc.

Anything else I should be aware of, especially differences between making
ales and lagers.



Thanks again to everybody for getting me this far and tolerating this long
post.



I will try to keep them shorter in the future.



Thanks again,



Have fun Brewing,



Bill


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: taste...watery...

In responding to Nick's request for tips on how to
make his brew less watery, Darrell Leavitt wrote:

>also, you can add a pound of "malto-dextrin" which
>will add body
>(mouthfeel) to the brew....

I would think that WOULD add body. 4 oz. (1/4 pound)
is probably a more reasonable amount.

Kent Fletcher
brewing in SoCal



 



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:39:51 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Sg Readings and Alcohol content

I recently received am email from Northern Brewer stating that they have
refractometers at a good price.  The advertisement also states that, "Please
note that refractometers only work in a water solution, and do not read
correctly if there is alcohol in the sample".  This set me to thinking,
(always dangerous, it weakens the nation), is there an equation or algorithm
that describes this process in general, more than just the refractometer
case?

I will use what I think are the standard definitions of:

Plato = (weight of sugar)/(weight of sugar + weight of water),

SG = (weight of a volume of solution under test)/(weight of equal volume of
pure water)

Suppose one were to play a mind game (ala Einstein).

Case A-- You start with a sugar/water solution of X Plato.  As the sugar is
converted to alcohol, imagine that the alcohol is removed so that only sugar
and water remain in the solution.  In this simple case, the Plato would
decrease. There should be a relationship between Plato and SG that is
relatively simple.

Case B-- If the alcohol remains in the solution, it is of lower density than
water so the SG reading will be lower.  It seems to me that in this case,
the Plato is a function of both the original SG (or original Plato) and the
present SG.

Anyone know what that relationship is?

To extend this thought, could one make test solutions by combining various
weights of water, sugar, and alcohol (perhaps 70% isopropyl)?  If so, how?

Could these be used to recalibrate the refractometer readings?

Would other substances in beer (and wine) have a significant effect on these
calibrations?

Or, do I need to get a life?

(AJ are you out there)

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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---