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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  BYO v Zymurgy ("H. Dowda")
  Benefits of AHA Membership ("Dennis Waltman")
  Re: Zymurgy vs. BYO (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  Re: Rogue's Younger's Special Bitter clone recipe? (Martin_Brungard)
  Re: Dortmund Water ("Peter Fantasia")
  AHA and the Pub Discount Program (mohrstrom)
  Brewpubs in Quebec City ("John Misrahi")
  Zymurgy vs. Brew Your Own (Althelion)
  Malting Home grown Wheat ("Stephen Rockey")
  Beer in New Haven ("Skip Virgilio")
  AHA Pub Discount ("Gary Glass")
  BYO Versus. Zymurgy ("Mike Brennan")


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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: BYO v Zymurgy

Mr. Love poses an interesting question about the
relative value of the two mags. Recently, for a year
or so (?) many issues had duplicated articles. For
instance, both current issues deal extensively with
fruit beers.  There have been several other such
cases.  While this is, I am sure, purely coincidence
and not a case of industrial espionage (dare we
suspect beeroterrorism)it patently reduces the mutual
value of the two.  Certainly there are points in each
article not in the other, but enough to justify two
articles?  Wasn't there a lead piece on Helles in the
last Zymurgy? There is one in this months BYO. Which
is better. Take your pick, lately they have pretty
much said the same thing.  BYO gives you more issues
for less $ and is to my simple intellect, more fun. 
But as a quasi-famous person says "that's just my
opinion, I could be wrong".



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 03:16:19 -0400
From: "Dennis Waltman" <PDWALTMAN at sablaw.com>
Subject: Benefits of AHA Membership

There is another benefit of being a member 
of the AHA, one I have not seen.   
 
For those that enter the AHA National 
Homebrew Competition, being a member 
cuts $4 off the entry fee per bottle.   This 
year for me, being a member just about paid 
the entire membership fee in savings, 
so the magazine is free.
 
Just a data point,
 
Dennis Waltman





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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Zymurgy vs. BYO

Wayne ponders...

"My question to the Digest is to those members who are familiar with both
magazines to help me rate the value of either subscription. Is Zymurgy
worth twice the price of Brew Your Own. Is one magazine much larger than
the other? Are they aimed at different target markets i.e. beginners vs.
intermediate home brewers?"

Wayne, I subscribe to both and find that I'm far more excited when a new
issue of Zymurgy hits my door.  Brew Your Own is a magazine we're lucky to
have, but it's no Zymurgy (especially Zymurgy under Ray Daniels).  In my
opinion, I think the techniques discussed are significantly less advanced
as a whole (I love Zymurgy's Geek section).  In BYO, nearly everything
seems to be extract-based and I feel they are assuming the reader is an
extract brewer.

Zymurgy does/has done a number of special jumbo issues (Hops, The Great
Grain Issue, etc - something BYO has never done, to my knowledge) that I
will keep until the day I die.

I just moved, and I recycled all my BYOs (and All About Beers), but I
boxed and carefully labeled my Zymurgy collection for safe shipping.

Hope this helps!

 -A

____________________________________________________________________________
Aaron Lyon  -  homebrewer / research assist / hasher
*[4.13, 118] Apparent Rennerian*

"Give me a woman who truly loves beer, and I will conquer the world."
	-Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941)


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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:12:29 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: Re: Rogue's Younger's Special Bitter clone recipe?

Jeff Renner asked for suggestions on formulations for YSB.  I didn't see
good insight on the formulation, so I'll pipe up.

There is one thing in the internet YSB description that troubles me...it
mentions 2-row and crystal malts only.  This doesn't agree with the
philosophy that John Maier espoused in his interview article in Brew Your
Own magazine some years ago.  He likes to use a wide variety of specialty
grains to produce more complexity.

Sure, you could use a variety of crystal malts, but the percentage of
crystal in the grist might be higher than desirable to produce the
indicated color (17 L).  I suggest that the formulation may use a small
percentage of dark malt like Special B or Chocolate to help with the color
and add complexity.  I seem to remember that its a good idea to keep the
crystal percentage to less than 10 percent to avoid cloying sweetness.

The hopping schedule was suggested from the YSB description.  I assume the
Willamette is the bittering hop and EKG is used for flavor and aroma.

I plugged the information into Promash and came up with the following for a
5 gal batch:

Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name
- ---------------------------------------
  3.0     0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt
  3.0     0.25 lbs. Crystal 150L
 88.1     7.38 lbs. Pale Malt
  3.0     0.25 lbs. Crystal 20L
  3.0     0.25 lbs. Crystal 60L

The SG is about 12 P and the color is about 17 SRM or L


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil
Time
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 28.00 g.     Willamette                        Pellet   5.00  24.3  60
min.
 28.00 g.     Goldings - E.K.                   Pellet   4.75   6.2  15
min.
 28.00 g.     Goldings - E.K.                   Pellet   4.75   3.9  5 min.

This gives about 35 IBU.

This is just a guess, but the main point of my post is that the formulation
will probably use a wide variety of specialty malts to achieve the Rogue
signature complexity.


Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:18:16 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dortmund Water

Whenever I try to emulate a certain type of brewing water I add minerals to
my mash to get me in the proper ph range. Any additional minerals are added
to the kettle. Remember  each minerals function ,such as sulfate
accentuating hops and magnesium acting as a yeast nutrient and don't exceed
maximum recommendations. There are a couple of articles in the best of
zymurgy related to this.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:50:03 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: AHA and the Pub Discount Program

Sean McDonald observes from Elmhurst:

> When I mentioned that there were no, or few,
> participants in chicago and that perhaps the
> AHA should do something to rectify the situation,
> Paul Gatza response was that their current
> strategy was to let the pubs come to them.

The Pub Discount Program has been functional for a whoppin' twelve days
now.  The strategy is to do a "soft start" (much as a retailer will quietly
open for a period of time before their "Grand Opening") to allow any
problems to surface and be addressed, before a full court press is made to
bring every establishment into the program.

The AHA staff in Boulder is limited, and can't chase every establish
simultaneously.  I would suggest that you contact your nearest AHA Liaison
with suggestions as to what breweries you'd like to see included in the Pub
Discount Program.  If you know the brewer's or owner's name, that would be
helpful, also.

As Louis Bonham commented, not everything is yet perfect.  As with any
organization, the value increases with the contribution made.  We have the
opportunity to build a great national organization, and now is the time.


Mark in Kalamazoo
AHA Liaison - West Michigan




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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:02:51 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Brewpubs in Quebec City


A fantastic brewpub in Quebec City. I've been there (the pub) once and it
was very high quality stuff. It's called l'Inox and you can find all the
info at

http://www.inox.qc.ca

Enjoy your trip

John Misrahi





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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:01:05 EDT
From: Althelion at aol.com
Subject: Zymurgy vs. Brew Your Own

I get both magazines. I enjoy reading both magazines. I was a charter 
subscriber to Brew Your Own when it started back in '95 (I think). Over these 
past few years, it's my observation that Zymurgy has evolved to include many 
elements that Brew Your Own has always had - specifically a focus on the 
practical issues of the average homebrewer. I believe Ray Daniels has 
improved the overall content of Zymurgy quite a bit. As for the dollar value? 
Who knows. Since Brewing Techniques and the Michigan Beer Guide dropped out, 
these are the only two beer periodicals that I get(not counting the HBD, 
which is the best value, thank you Northern Brewer).

I subscribe to both because I think that reading about brewing helps me top 
keep on top of the hobby. Is there a lot of redundancy? Yah, there's some. 
But there's also more new ideas, interesting topical articles and features 
between the both of them.

Al Pearlstein
Commerce Township, Michigan


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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:47:53 -0500
From: "Stephen Rockey" <slrjk at egyptian.net>
Subject: Malting Home grown Wheat

Hello all,

	I recently received about 40 pounds of fresh wheat seed from a local
farmer.  The wheat is southern Illinois winter wheat, which I know it is not
a "highly desired" beer making strain, but I would like to try and malt some
anyway.  My goal is to use my home grown hops, water from the local spring,
and my own malted grain.  I found some recipes for 100% wheat beer and am
anxious to try this out.

	Anyway, where can I get some direction on how to properly malt this wheat?

	Also, how should I store it before it is malted?  How about after it is
malted.

	I tried to search the HBD archives, but the search engine is down.


		Thank you for you help,

		Steve Rockey
		Jacob, Illinois (Too small to make it into the Rand McNally Atlas!)

PS I am looking for any brewers in Southern Illinois, St. Louis is a bit too
far.  Anybody out there?



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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:52:29 -0700
From: "Skip Virgilio" <skip at alesmith.com>
Subject: Beer in New Haven

I am taking a rare trip from San Diego to New Haven at the beginning of
August. Anyone have suggestions on local brews to try, pubs that serve local
brews, or packaged beer from east coast/New England breweries that are
available in the New Haven area and where to buy them?

Thanks!

Skip Virgilio
AleSmith Brewing Co.



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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:05:21 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: AHA Pub Discount

Hi Everyone,

This month in conjunction with American Beer Month the AHA launched a new
benefit for AHA members, our Pub Discount program.  We have been working
very hard to get this program underway and are excited to get it rolling.
Of course we are committed to the success of the Pub Discount.  We started
with some of the larger chains of brewpubs--BJ's, Hops, and Rock Bottom--in
an effort to make the discount available to as many AHA members as possible,
while being realistic about being able to maintain this fledgling program
with a limited amount of staff resources.  As with any major new
undertaking, there will be bugs that need to be worked out, but once we have
a basic structure in place we expect to be adding new brewpubs and beer bars
around the country (probably one near you).

On July 1, Membership Coordinator Erin Fay and I marched down the street to
the BJ's here in Boulder waving our AHA cards and got our discount.  The
next day a group of us walked down to the Walnut Brewery, again waving our
AHA cards and again getting our discount (what, the rest of you don't have 5
brewpubs within walking distance of work--yeah, Boulder's not such a bad
place).

The success of the program depends on AHA members getting out there and
taking advantage of it.  This benefit will survive and grow only if we use
it. If we do not use it, it will leave the radar screen of the participating
pubs, and become more of a burden than it is worth. So, please, support the
brewers that are participating.

Mark Snyder (mailto:marks at aob.org) is the staffer in charge of the program
internally, please let him know if you go into a pub on the list that does
not have the internal training in place yet to provide the deals to AHA
members (training staff at pubs all across the country is a major logistical
undertaking, so it might take a little while for every pub in the program to
get up to speed). We have provided each pub with laminated sheets that shows
what a valid card is and the word should be out to most servers (of course
be polite when working with any pub staff if they don't know the details).
It may be helpful to know the discount they have agreed to provide before
you go in to the pub in case you become part of that training. It also would
be helpful to discuss the discount and the card with your server when you
order a beer, rather than when you receive your bill.

Keep in mind that discounts are subject to state laws.  For example,
discounts on beer are illegal in Illinois, but pubs can offer discounts on
food and merchandise.

For a list of participating pubs and their discounts, see
http://www.beertown.org/discount.htm.  We will be updating the list as we
add new pubs.

Cheers!

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org
www.beertown.org

Celebrate! July is American Beer Month!

The Great American Beer Festival Turns 21 this Year! Mark your calendars,
October 3-5, 2002 at the Denver Convention Center,
http://www.beertown.org/GABF/



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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:26:01 -0500
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: BYO Versus. Zymurgy

I subscribe to both magazines and like them both.  My personal opinion is
that I notice a significant amount of erroneous or misleading information in
BYO, which I would consider their weakness.  Their strength appears to be
creativity, imagination, simply put, ideas you will not read about
elsewhere.  Zymurgy's strength in my mind has always been technically
accuracy.  Their weakness if I had to select one, seems to me to be
repetitive articles, also with some meaningless filler in each issue.  In
their defense, they have been around so long its hard not to be repetitive.



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